Older Dads to blame for Autism ?

[MelowMeldrew]

http://autism-prevention.blogspot.com/ Is there ANY truth in this ? are most fathers of Autistics over 33 ?

[ScienceGeek]

Well my dad was 18 when my mum had me.

[jo4themo]

Well, Ns dad was 22 when I got pregnant with her and was 29 when I got pregnant with out youngest (NT). I suppose if there is a genetic tendancy to be on the spectrum then the older the parents the higher the odds as there are less sperm, but I don't know.

[brooke]

my dh was 23 when we had O so i dont belive that!!

[mossgrove]

I realised that this blog had some serious issues as soon as I saw the quote in the most recent article.

 

It is widely accepted that Autism is an autoimmune disorder and that is why vaccinations make autism worse in my opinion.

 

There is no widespread acceptance that Autism is an autoimmune disorder, nor is ther any scientific eveidence that vaccinations make Autism 'worse'. So not a good start.

 

I also think that older parents are, for a whole raft of reasons, more likely to get a diagnosis of Autism for their child if their child does have Autism. When the parents are younger/inexperienced it is quite common for assumptions to be made that the problem is lack of parenting skills.

 

As with many of these articles, best taken with a huge pinch of salt.

 

Simon

[Bard]

I know that a lot of people here have had fingers pointed at their parenting skills, and have felt rightly that it was unjustified.

That said, my OH was 39 when B was born

[hev]

stevens object of a father was 22 when he was born

[baddad]

I've gotta say I have wondered about this in the past myself... I was banging on a bit when Ben was conceived, and my autistic nephew was a surprise visit from the stork around the time my bro hit forty too...

Lot's of the dads I know had their children in later life, and I know many where there are older siblings not on the spectrum and younger ones who are, but far fewer where it goes the other way...

I don't think there's anything specific here, but it could be one of those environmental factors that make the difference between predisposition and manifestation...

Additionally, if evidence ever does emerge of an autoimmune link to some cases of autism, then maybe this could be a factor in that link...

 

Having had a quick look at the opening blog there are some wild generalisations and heaps of fuzzy logic, but I think there are probably many external factors that can contribute to the way in which autism manifests... while paternal age isn't technically 'external', it could be a social factor which hasn't been quite so prevelent in earlier generations... certainly seems possible that social trends and things like divorce/second families mean that far more men (and women) are having kids later in life...

Really uncomfortable about that 'to blame' bit, though

 

[Julieanne]

Hi well im not sure about this because i was 28 when i concieved with jay ( my autistic child) and hubby was 30...soim not sure what happened there lol...but personally i blame the MMR.....

there may be some truth in it

[lorryw]

My husband was 30 when our son was born.

A friend rang me last week having read in the Daily Mail that mothers who used flea shampoo on their pets whilst pregnant caused the child to be autistic!

[Mumble]

Not read it because I might get cross and I'm supposed to be chillin' but this isn't a new claim anyway and there's always been serious issues with it. Firstly many disabilities etc. have a higher incidence among older parents (mothers and fathers) - doctors are always more concerned about older mothers - take Downs as a classic example.

 

Simon's argument seems justified:

I also think that older parents are, for a whole raft of reasons, more likely to get a diagnosis of Autism for their child if their child does have Autism. When the parents are younger/inexperienced it is quite common for assumptions to be made that the problem is lack of parenting skills.

And without wanting to upset anyone, (although I think I read that the trend is changing) more middle-class parents tend to have children later in life and these are the parents who statistically speaking (not individual cases) are likely to push, and be successful in pushing for, dx, hence more dx in older parents.

 

I also had a theory/argument when this was first mentioned - there is a pretty robust argument that ASDs are genetic and a number of parents of ASD children have gone on to get a dx themselves later in life. Now, statistically speaking (again there will of course be counter-cases) I would suggest that particularly AS/HFA peeps are less likely to get into a relationship - a stable one - earlier in adulthood, and so if they have children may be having them later. Their children seem to be statistically more likely to have ASD (genetics wise) hence again more dx with older parents.

 

And just because I know people will pick holes in what I've said with cases and I can't be bother to argue that that is exactly how statistics work, I thought I'd join in:

Lot's of the dads I know had their children in later life, and I know many where there are older siblings not on the spectrum and younger ones who are, but far fewer where it goes the other way...

It's the other way around in my family My father must have been in his early 30s when my brother was conceived and he is most severely autistic. He would have been mid/late-30s when I was conceived and I'm HFA, and mid-40s when my sister was conceived and she's NT!!!!

[Lynden]

My hubby was only 25 when Logan was born so definitely not an issue for us. He's aspergers though and his Dad was only about the same age 25ish when he was born also

 

Lynne x

[darky]

Well it could be a possibility for us. My husband is a lot older than me, he was 36 when my eldest son was born, and 41 when my daughter was born. HOWEVER, I am certain in our family it is genetic nothing more. My Dad is an undx Aspie, so am I, one of my sisters 2 of her boys dx with an ASD, and my 3 children dx. From what I have been told about my grandad, I am pretty certain he was an Aspie as well. So I am certain it's genetic. Plus we saw a new consultant the other day, she is from the USA, she said there is definately a genetic link or a genetic problem but they just have not found it yet!

[bid]

Well, with 3 generations on the spectrum here goes...

 

My grandad would have been in his twenties when my dad was born.

 

My dad was 35 when I was born, but my eldest brother has his moments and my dad would have been in his mid 20s then!

 

My ex was 25 when DS was born.

 

I personally think Mumble is closest with the older middle class parents/more able to push for dx theory...

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

My other half was 25 when L was born - so unlikely to be a factor for us.

 

K x

[mossgrove]

This a good point!

 

I also had a theory/argument when this was first mentioned - there is a pretty robust argument that ASDs are genetic and a number of parents of ASD children have gone on to get a dx themselves later in life. Now, statistically speaking (again there will of course be counter-cases) I would suggest that particularly AS/HFA peeps are less likely to get into a relationship - a stable one - earlier in adulthood, and so if they have children may be having them later. Their children seem to be statistically more likely to have ASD (genetics wise) hence again more dx with older parents.

 

 

Our two youngest children are the NT ones! So am not sure about BD's theory.

 

 

 

Simon

[hev]

This a good point!

 

 

 

 

Our two youngest children are the NT ones! So am not sure about BD's theory.

 

 

 

Simon

i ignore all baddads theories sorry this is an intelligent thread,i will get back to off topic

[ScienceGeek]

I didn't think about the older generations...

 

my grandad was 43 when my mum was born, 28 when the eldest was born. Most of them are dyslexics, dyspraxics a few aspies as well. My youngest aunt we think is bipolar and on the spectrum. My dads side my dad is suspected dyslexic and dyspraxic his dad was 32 when he was born. Hmmm...

[bid]

Mind you, the addy name says a lot, doesn't it

 

Bid

[Bagpuss]

Hmmmm, interesting thread, and have enjoyed reading everyone's opinion.

 

My DH was 26 when DS (NT) was born, 30 when DD (AS) was born, and 33 when youngest DD (ASD & MD) was born.

[oxgirl]

My DH was 30 when Jay was born, his father was also 30 when he was born. My father was in his mid 40's when I came along. Not sure what that means really, probably nothing.

 

~ Mel ~

[baddad]

i ignore all baddads theories

 

When did this become MY theory???

 

Blimey, I know I get blamed for everything around here, but now i'm getting blamed for what total strangers post on the internet in places I've never even visited!

Aye Caramba!

[Tally]

My father was 33 when I was born, and I am diagnosed with AS. He was 4 years older when my brother was born, and he is most definitely NOT autistic. So in that extremely small sample, the theory hasn't worked.

 

Some people suggest that fathers who have some autistic traits simply take longer to find a partner with whom to have children, and the children more commonly develop autism because they inherit it from the father.

[hsmum]

Hello,

 

 

My husband was 40 when H was born. My husband is on the spectrum himself and had difficulty forming successful relationships and that is why he became a father a little later than average. That saying, we went on to have H's brother just under two years later and he has no ASD as far as we know.

[hev]

So am not sure about BD's theory.

 

 

 

Simon

simon started it bighead,i just agreed with him cos hes a moderator and be thankful you are a mod cos i go easy on you most of the time,if you were a mere member god help ya

[Shnoing]

Me: NT son when 22, autie son when 32.

Father: Aspie son when 32, NT son when 35.

Granddad: NT(?) daughter/sons when 25/28/31, Aspie son when 38.

Great-granddad: the most 'outstanding' Aspie son was his last child of 8 (at age 43).

 

Eta: of course there's no one to 'blame'.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Shnoing

[hev]

Eta: of course there's no one to 'blame'.

yes there is,baddad

[MelowMeldrew]

I thought the blog a bit ridiculous, addressing blame to older parents is poor form. I seem to recall Charlie Chaplin a dad at 80 and even Des O Connor (Let's not go there !), is a dad too, there are many other examples, few if any produced an autistic child. I reserve judgment on MMR. As a Deaf mother and Father is here, we had that blamed for autism too, there seems as many ridiculous theories as their are idiots.... I think it is just plain GUILT, we all feel we must be the cause... we shouldn't be feeling that but we do.

[pearl]

I was banging on a bit when Ben was conceived

 

So are you officially admitting to Old GitHood then?

That makes you an OG rather than an OGB

[baddad]

yes there is,baddad

 

 

Oh hardy har har!

 

(seriously, did make oi laff!)

 

Pearl, I don't know what 'OGB' is?

 

Remember, you're as young as you feel.....

that's me b***ered then!

[pearl]

Official Good Bloke, keep up! Course you are v old so I'll make allowances ....

[aspiemum2twinsplus1]

http://autism-prevention.blogspot.com/ Is there ANY truth in this ? are most fathers of Autistics over 33 ?

 

My dad was 24 when I was born and I have Aspergers. My son(s) who are on the spectrum (one twin is and one may be) their dad would have been 35 at the time. My grandad probably had AS but how old his dad was when he was born is unknown.

[rach04]

Js sperm doner was 27 when j was born but i have suspicions that he has asd too and it runs in my family anyway.

[Shnoing]

... Is there ANY truth in this ? are most fathers of Autistics over 33 ?

 

One more thought: By now, most (that is: more than 50 % of them) fathers become fathers only at or after the age of 33. Therefore, statistically, more than half of the fathers of autistics should be 33 or more, too.

[hev]

Js sperm doner

[pookie170]

well....I was 20 when I had Cal and his Dad was 28, but hes defo on the spectrum though undiagnosed, so Im putting it down to genetics. Think as blokes age the quality of their sperm deteriorates, but not as much as womens' eggs? With it being made to order rather than being in storage! But to say that makes a parent 'to blame' for any condition that their child might have is cruel..... It might be a factor, but for gosh sakes, that is not something they should hear from 'professionals'.....

 

 

Esther x

[Gillian Roberts]

Hi everyone, My ex husband was 28 like myself when my son was born. until diagnosis with my son last month at the age of 11 years, autism to me was never thought of. BUT in hind sight i have seen all of my sons behaviours in his dad (passive), 2 uncles who are now 22 (proactive) and 15 (passive) and his grandpa who is 60 (passive). I was always blamed for our arguments, but now the signs were there in my sons dad. he was very shy, nervous and giggle, never looked directly at you and would not say alot in group conversations. I believe now that maybe he did not fully understand the content of the conversations and just agreed. He would then would twist my words and always try and pass the blame back at me and say that I was talking down at him, then through frustration he would swear at me and throw things. His release to be someone else was through drink and would become very aggressive towards me. Without a drink he would go back to the quiet recluse. It was a struggle to communicate with him and he would never talk to me about his feelings. If I knew then what i knew now I may have dealt with the situations differently. I may have been his triggers but I am not blaming myself anymore, it was not my fault. I still dont think we would have been together today but he may have been seeing his son. When you have a child answering his parent back your natural reaction is to say that they are being rude & disrespecful but to an AS child it feels like a threat when someone shouts at them and their natural instinct is to defend themselves which in turn leads to a meltdown. Thank fully for me my sons dad never hit me but my son is now. kicking and punching me because he is too embarrassed to have a meltdown in the street. HIs fathers family have been notified of my sons diagnosis but they are in denial and well thats their problem not mine now. My wee laddie is my priority now and whether it is genetic or coincedence, he will get the best support and life skills that I can offer him till one day he can hopefully lead an independant life on his own. Gilly x

[MelowMeldrew]

Why ME ? doesn't help we move on... I'm wary of going 'trait spotting !' it can lead to all sorts of assumptions. There is NO obvious inherited 'trait' anywhere in my family at all, if there is it goes back well beyond anyone's living memory. There was some OCD issues in Mum's family (Her mother), but Someone who is shy, and reserved is not necessarily passive autistic, or where will it end ? Lack of confidence isn't autism. 'Loners' are not necessarily autistic either, not those with poor social skills, we have to have perspective or most of the population will end up with the label !

[Gillian Roberts]

Why ME ? doesn't help we move on... I'm wary of going 'trait spotting !' it can lead to all sorts of assumptions. There is NO obvious inherited 'trait' anywhere in my family at all, if there is it goes back well beyond anyone's living memory. There was some OCD issues in Mum's family (Her mother), but Someone who is shy, and reserved is not necessarily passive autistic, or where will it end ? Lack of confidence isn't autism. 'Loners' are not necessarily autistic either, not those with poor social skills, we have to have perspective or most of the population will end up with the label !

 

Ok maybe I didnt explain myself correctly, my ex husband took everthing you said literally, never understood it at the time, because he picked up a joke the wrong way at a party he head butted the host, he lost his front teeth as a teenager because he took a conversation the wrong way and reacted to it. My son has a distinctive glare, non expression face and will nervously giggle too and say yes out of politeness and I know he hasnt understood the question. He is too embarrassed to ask and gets annoyed if I ask for him. His dad reacted the same way but to speak up and explain something for an adult(partner) to him was insulting and he would get defensive so I never did it. Yes you could say this is of a non AS person, but I am sorry its too obvious with them.

 

I do believe there is a genetic connection but then I have perceptions of life situations, social rules and boundaries. I will think before I speak, I will consider how it will affect another person, my ex as well as my son dont care when they have something to say, they say it no matter if it will hurt someone's feelings.

 

I think in the end, are people in denial and refuse to accept any form of condition because they have lived with it all their lives? to them it is normal to others like myself it has been very hurtful, and I sufffered depression, blame, fear and weight gain. We will think inside the box. Gilly x

[MelowMeldrew]

Peace <'> What prompted the reply was I read somewhere a social worker speaking off the record saying "It's getting beyond, as soon as a child is playing up, they are coming to us, or going to the doctors and demandingt their child is diagnosed with ADHD, autism (Which is the fashion now !), and everything else, sometimes to get the benefit allowance ! when all they need is a good spanking. Most children are lacking in social skills for one reason only, their parents are either bone idle, they have no parenting skills, or just plain thick..." (Wonder if she still has her job