School bus incident

[Flora]

I haven't had time to post about this incident which happened yesterday.

 

I can see the bus stop where the school bus drops Ben off if I stick my head out of the front door (after opening it first of course !!!). Yesterday at about the time the bus is due in I looked out and saw the bus was there and that all the kids were getting off. I left the door ajar for Ben and went back inside.

 

About 4 minutes went past and I thought he must be dawdling (the bust stop is barely a 2 minute walk, probably much less) and I looked back outside and couldn't see any kids at all in the street and Ben hadn't arrived home. My heart went cold and I ran into the house to get my mobile phone and to get into the car to see if I could find him. I was looking for the school number to see if they could tell me if he'd been on the bus and really starting to panic.

 

Just as I was starting to pull away from the house in the car he appeared around the corner coming from the opposite direction of the bus stop.

 

Apparently there was a boy on the bus stopping another boy from coming down the stairs and he made Ben and another boy who were trying to come down the stairs behind them miss the stop. Ben said it wasn't 'in fun', that this boy was bullying the other boy and jumped off the bus at the last minute making the bullied boy and Ben and his friend miss their stop and they had to be dropped off outside the village on a main road

 

I thought about it for a while and decided to ring the school because quite honestly it's unacceptable behaviour on a school bus not just for the boy who was being bullied (poor kid, I know him and he has always had a hard time) and particularly when it was only the second day of getting the bus for Ben and one of the other boys who missed the stop.

 

They rang me back this morning and the student manager who I was talking to was absolutely furious. I wanted her to take steps (have words) to make sure it doesn't happen again, but she said this particular boy is now on his last warning (apparently multiple incidents since he started at the school a year ago). If there are any more incidents after this one involving him he's not going to be allowed to use the school bus (not sure how that will work!!!). I'm kind of torn about this. On the one hand I was cross about what happened partly because Ben not appearing off the bus gave me a big fright (I've taken a leap of faith in sending him to the school with no support because he wouldn't like it... he hates to be different and is really trying to assert his independence) and I really just wanted to make sure there weren't repetitive incidents (he could handle one or two, but I think he'll quickly get wobbly about going on the bus if things kept happening), but now I've effectively taken away this lads penultimate chance over an incident which, in the greater scheme of things, wasn't the worst thing that could happen. I have no idea if the lad who was being bullied would tell his mum or not. He's a year 8 lad and while I know he gets some stick (from things Ben used to tell me when this lad was still at primary school) but he's also quite a robust character so could probably handle it.

 

Should I have let this one go in the hope that it was a one off?

 

Flo'

Edited September 5, 2008 by Flora

[Cat]

Should I have let this one go in the hope that it was a one off?

 

Absolutely not - you did the right thing. My eldest none ASD son was bullied dreadfully when he was in Secondary School and quite a lot of that bullying took place on the school bus. He has he clothes ripped off his back, he had a stink bomb hit off his head and the final straw was when he was tied to the bus pole and not found until the bus reached the depot. He was almost blue in the face by this point.

 

I think that this child should be banned from using the bus now. What would have happened if Ben had not known his way home from the other stop? It might sound silly but seriously my DS2 (AS) would have been so thrown by not being able to get off the bus at the correct stop he would probably have frozen and not been able to make it home. It beggars the questions how many times do they extend the final warning. If this has been going on since last year it needs to be stopped now.

 

Cat

[Flora]

I know cat. And my main thoughts and concerns were if it isn't dealt with quickly that Ben (who's got off to a great start with the transition etc) would develop fear/anxiety around getting the bus. I haven't pushed for any support for him because he really would hate to be singled out and appear different, but I also know that he can get very negative and wobbly about things if they keep going awry. He's making great strides towards independence and I don't want silly incidents on the bus to interfere with his confidence with that.

 

I suppose I do feel a bit sorry for this other boy though I know he has a horrible home life and that is at the root of his behaviour; it doesn't excuse it though, and it also doesn't help the other kids who are collateral damage to his own problems.

 

Flo'

[chris54]

Any misbehaver on school buses (any bus) should be jumped on hard and fast, nothing worse that being on a bus with this sore of thing going on. You can't get away from it.

Where we use to live they had a bus painted a horrible shade of bright pink that was used to take any trouble makers to school, that way everyone know who thy were.

[keepingmesane]

tbh, im sure the actual child who was being bullied would be very thankful of you contacting the school, its all very well worrying for the bully, i can understand that he may have had a bad start himself, but the victim will carry it with them for much longer, i know i did.

well done on phoning the school, you did the right thing xx

[pearl]

Try not to worry about the other boy Flo - if he's had lots of warnings then he has to take the consequences of his actions. Glad Ben coped & that he wasnt the direct target.

 

The ones who bullied JP were usually the ones with problems of their own. But I could still rip their heads off whenever I see them, years later. I dont feel proud of feeling like that.

[Flora]

But I could still rip their heads off whenever I see them, years later. I dont feel proud of feeling like that.

 

That about sums it up Pearl!

 

Just one of those situations that you want to sort out, but feel bad about the other kid. Have to say if it had been Ben he was bullying I wouldn't feel sympathetic. Makes you wonder though how much the school do beyond imposing sanctions. One more incident and this kid is going to be banned from the bus so hopefully if that's the case then they are going to look further into why! If they've met the parents (which they must've done) they'll know 'why' immediately, but something more should be done to find a way of reaching this kid before he gets beyond the stage of being helped.

 

Flo'

Edited September 5, 2008 by Flora

[Kathryn]

I think you did the right thing. Lots of children have tough home lives - not all of them turn out to be bullies. Ignoring the behaviour sends out the wrong message - and the next incident might have been a lot more serious.

 

I'm not very sympathetic towards bullies I'm afraid, after what happened to L over many years. I can sympathise with you Pearl - I have the same reaction myself.

 

K x

[Clare63]

Flora you deffinately did the right thing, this used to happen to Connor in his first year of secondary and would regularly miss his stop due to one nasty piece of work. Once he managed to squeese by and jump off the bus as the driver pulled away, I made several complaints both to school and the bus company and ended up taking and picking him up from school, another example of his confidence being stripped from him by the ignorance of others.

 

Hope this child is stopped quickly from bullying others on the bus.

 

Clare x x x

[pookie170]

Think you did exactly the right thing. What would have happened if someone fell down the stairs due to this other kid's blocking the stairwell? There must have been four children standing in the stairwell as the bus pulled away from Ben's missed stop!

 

My little NT lad should, technically, be using the bus to get to school, but he's only 5, is weeny and trusting and I drive him myself for many reasons-

the main one is that I've often had the pleasure of being behind a school bus as it pulls away from school and the behaviour is absolutely shocking. I flashed one driver to stop once because I was watching a lad getting a proper 'doing' in the back of the upper floor- it's just not good enough.

There should be an escort on each bus, the way things are nowadays. (I sound like Mrs Merton!!)

 

I know that you have empathy for the bully, simply because you know his home life isnt great, but safety and the preservation of what self-worth his victim has left is more important.

 

Tell Ben if it happens again, he and his pal should shout as loud as they can for the driver to help them!

Esther x

[Suze]

Hi , I agree with everyone that reporting the incident was the best thing to do.This b oy who has been bullying has to learn that you can,t treat others like this.Regardless of his home life , at some point he will enter society as an adult and if he has,nt learnt right from wrong, or that bullying others is not the answer to his problems etc, then he,ll be in alot more trouble that not being able to catch the school bus home.From what the school have said there have been other incidents and its down to the school to handle this with him and his parents, and offer some pastoral care etc.

[Flora]

I spoke to the other boys mum this morning (the one who was being stopped from getting off the bus), she knocked on my door at 8.30am because her son had told her about the incident. She hadn't rang the school because she said it wasn't as bad as some of the things this boy had done, although she has complained many times before over worse incidents. She was very grateful I'd rang. She told me this lad wasn't only on final warnings for the bus, but if he puts a toe out of line within school he's going to be permanently excluded. She too said don't feel bad, because he's made her son's (and others) lives a misery when they were all in year 7!

 

I don't feel so bad now!

 

Flora

[baddad]

I've got mixed feelings on this one

While totally agreeing that the problem kid needs to be pulled up on his behaviour and to face some sort of consequences, I also feel the school's attitude is wrong. They're making him 'responsible' for his behaviour when clearly he hasn't - yet - got the understanding (or possibly 'attitude') to be responsible for it.

While bullying is a very emotive subject, in the wider context the issue of 'blaming' disabled people (or socially deprived/socially excluded people) for the way those factors impact on their behaviour leaves them high and dry, and the school's attitude seems very cut and dried.

If they've worked hard with this boy (the 'bully') and given him all sorts of opportunities/support/guidance, and developed strategies to help him improve his behaviour - perhaps involving outside agencies etc - then exclusion may be the only sensible option left them that safeguards the other children (which should always be the prime consideration): and that's fine!

For it to be general knowledge, though, that the boy is on his 'last warning' does imply at least a level of indescretion on the schools part, and certainly that sort of 'general knowlwdge' (and the judgement it implies) wouldn't have escaped the attention of the 'bullying' child. Hardly ideal circumstances for anyone to address the behavioural issues he has...

 

Obviously I don't know how the school bus works, but from the stairwell it must be a double decker, with, presumably stairs at the back rather than the front (If the stairs were by the Driver's seat, why didn't the driver intervene?). That being the case, there should be a bell press on the stairs which the trapped kids could have used to attract the driver's attention(?)

 

As I say, I'm not defending the kid - but I'd also be inclined to ask the school how this situation could evolve, when there was an adult on the bus who could have intervened to stop it? If the stairs were at the front of the bus the driver must have been in a position to see what was going on, and if at the back the children should be made aware of what to do to attract his attention. The boy doing the bullying would then have been stopped, and faced the immediate consequence of a telling off and warning, coupled with the ongoing implications of his behaviour being reported to the school and them imposing further sanctions - a much better 'life lesson' for the child than the one he got, which is that if flozza hadn't complained he would have got away with it coupled with further damaging 'judgements' from the school, those attending the school, and the parents of those attending.

 

My idea of a practical and 'fair' solution would be a period of monitoring on the bus, coupled with a reward/sanction scheme to promote the correct behaviour. Offering clear expectations and consequences the monitoring would be reduced, with positive feedback and swift consequences as appropriate. On the downside, once a kid has got a reputation as a 'bully' it often becomes self-fulfilling. The 'observational paradigm' comes into play where any negative incident is automatically ascribed to the 'bully', regardless of the actual events, because the expectation is there that he/she will be responsible.

 

Bully's is a tough 'en... on the one hand I do believe a very small percentage of people are just 'nasty by nature'... for the most part, though, I think the correct interventions/strategies can help overcome the behaviours, and that benefits everyone. The playground bully will, if not given other options, grow up to be the pub bully or the work bully or whatever. Exclusion may make them Somebody Elses Problem in the short term, but in the long term they become everyone's problem

 

Hope that makes sense

 

Oh - just for clarity - Flozz, I think you were absolutely right to report it to the school - I just have some reservations about how the school - and the bus driver - might have dealt/be dealing with the situation

 

[Kathryn]

My idea of a practical and 'fair' solution would be a period of monitoring on the bus, coupled with a reward/sanction scheme to promote the correct behaviour. Offering clear expectations and consequences the monitoring would be reduced, with positive feedback and swift consequences as appropriate.

 

In an ideal world this would be good but it would have to involve another adult - I don't think bus drivers can be expected to be adolescent behaviour management experts as well as negotiating the rush hour traffic!

 

K x

Edited September 6, 2008 by Kathryn

[cmuir]

Hi

 

It doesn't seem to have been a one off from what you say the school said. Irrespective of whether a child has behavioural problems or not (and I can say that with honesty - I've often worried about how my son behaves around other kids, but it boils down to support/supervision), this kind of behavioural cannot be allowed for safety reasons. Don't feel guilty because all the kids on the bus have to be safe.

 

C.

[baddad]

In an ideal world this would be good but it would have to involve another adult - I don't think bus drivers can be expected to be adolescent behaviour management experts as well as negotiating the rush hour traffic!

 

K x

 

 

Hi Kathryn - Yes, i agree it's problematic that this kind of intervention does need a second adult about, but it would seem a worthwhile option to pursue if possible prior to excluding the child from the bus completely. Maybe the onus should be put on the parents to provide a 'responsible adult' to accompany him on the bus, or to elect to have him travel by a different method - at least asking someone significant to the child to make the decision for him rather than forcing it(?)...

I agree too that the bus driver shouldn't be expected to be trained in behaviour management etc, but in the first case his only role would have been to intervene and enable flozza's son and the other kids to leave at their chosen stop, and report the incident in very general terms to the staff at the school... I don't think that would be a lot to ask of any bus driver, let alone the driver of a designated 'school' bus? Even Otto from the Simpson's would do that and he's got to be the worst case scenario!

I don't have a problem with exclusion itself, I just think that it should be the last resort after all reasonable options have been explored, and to me the response of the school to flozza's phonecall seemed a bit OTT... Maybe they have explored all those reasonable avenues, both to enable the child to use the school bus and to remain a pupil at the school, in which case fine and dandy. All I'm saying is if they aint, they should!

Approaching this from another angle... if a member here was reporting that his/her child was being threatened with expulsion because of a 'silly prank' on the bus, we might all be responding a different way (and, paradoxically, i might well find myself the odd man out for the stuff i've said in my original post about firm sanctions and immediate consequences )

 

[Flora]

baddad, this was what I was worried about when I said this :

 

Makes you wonder though how much the school do beyond imposing sanctions. One more incident and this kid is going to be banned from the bus so hopefully if that's the case then they are going to look further into why! If they've met the parents (which they must've done) they'll know 'why' immediately, but something more should be done to find a way of reaching this kid before he gets beyond the stage of being helped.

 

I know quite a bit about this lads history and I feel very ambivalent about him.... ie... heartily sorry for him but also seeing what a little toad he is. He really does need help but if it's been offered and he isn't getting it, then it's his parent's who are blocking it because in their eyes he's a 'little smasher', not because they are overly protective and nurturing, but to acknowledge that he's heading for trouble would mean they would have to stir themselves and put some effort in.

 

Flora

[baddad]

baddad, this was what I was worried about when I said this :

 

 

 

I know quite a bit about this lads history and I feel very ambivalent about him.... ie... heartily sorry for him but also seeing what a little toad he is. He really does need help but if it's been offered and he isn't getting it, then it's his parent's who are blocking it because in their eyes he's a 'little smasher', not because they are overly protective and nurturing, but to acknowledge that he's heading for trouble would mean they would have to stir themselves and put some effort in.

 

Flora

 

 

Yep - met a few of them in my time... and from the school's POV if they know they're up against that, it must seem pretty pointless

 

[bikemad]

I wouldnt have let it go no id have created a stink and a half myself.

[sandyn]

you did absolutely the right thing. I would have done exactly the same if I were in your situation.

 

It is a school bus and therefore the behaviour of the pupils is down to the school. Yes the bus driver could have said something, if indeed, he actually saw anything, but his duty is to get the kids from A to B. If there was bad behaviour on board the bus , the bus company should report it to the school.

[chris54]

I do get a bit cross with people how say we should not punish the bully because he had a bad start in life. Have they ever been bullied? Yes it can stay with you all your life.

We don't say to a mass murderer well you had a unhappy childhood so keep on killing. So why anything else.

 

The first consideration should be the victims of crime, Help the bully yes but protect us all from them.

[Flora]

I do get a bit cross with people how say we should not punish the bully because he had a bad start in life. Have they ever been bullied? Yes it can stay with you all your life.

We don't say to a mass murderer well you had a unhappy childhood so keep on killing. So why anything else.

 

The first consideration should be the victims of crime, Help the bully yes but protect us all from them.

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

I don't think anyone here said the bully shouldn't be punished. I think this boy should be disciplined. However, for many kids it's enough to know the consequences of negative behaviour to prevent the behaviour; but with some kids, and some people on this forum will relate to this with their own kids, they need immediate help with controlling their own behaviour because for one reason or another they don't have an inbuilt ability to control it themselves (no matter what consequences they've been warned about). I think this particular lad falls into that category and that's why I was concerned that other things had been put in place to help him control his actions and at the same time protect other kids from them, before he was written off entirely.

 

I wouldn't condone for one minute that someone who'd been caught bullying should be patted on the head and excused because of their background. In saying that though, I have no idea what the answer is, because it's far easier for schools and LEA's to either ingnore the bullying, or to expell the bully, and we all know that due to resources etc they invariably always take the easy way out (especially if they haven't got the parents on board).

 

For my own part, if schools are going to take the easy way out, I'd rather they erred on the side of caution and expelled a bully than pussy footed around and effectively ignored the distress of the victims, but that doesn't make it right.

 

Flora