should we leave it to school when to decide on SEN assessments

[JsMum]

Some people seem to think it is upto schools to request a SEN assessment for our children.

 

Did you wait for the school to raise concerns or did you do it against the school because behaviour was been modified by medication and the child is bright.

 

Is an assessment of SEN really only for children who are behind their peers in sats and tests.

 

 

JsMum

 

 

[teachermum1]

I don't think that it should be left to the school to request Statements as some wouldn't bother as they would know they'd be expected to fund or provide more support than they wanted to.

 

BUT I think Statements of SEN should only be for those who need it most - not necessarily because they're x many years behind or because they're out of control, but certainly not just because they have a diagnosis of something. It should be done off need - how needy are they and how much more help do they need than that which can be provided for by the school?

 

Schools will always have an input because if a child is functioning OK at school (medicated or not, if they're doing OK ,then they're doing OK) then they don't need a Statement.

 

Statements have always been intended to be for a small number of children with needs which cannot be met by the school by itself. If the school can meet a child's needs, there is no need for a Statement (though the system needs to be tightened to ensure that schools provide enough help without Statements being needed)

[JsMum]

 

 

Many a times though schools that J went to said J wouldnt get a statement he was on school action and school action plus and often reassured me that the school was doing all they can, another school that J went to said he cant have any more help without a statement but said he wont get one because there was other kids worse than him, his sat levels where fine except his litracey but didnt get diagnosed Dyslexia until last year even though the school identified him as Dyslexia as young as six, yet he didnt recieve any extra support spersifically for his Dyslexia, like he is now.

 

His statement has quadupled in support but before assessment it was like reading information from two different children, many times the schools reassured me he was progressing, he is interacting, everything is fine Ms J. dont need to go and get a statement, then when funding for sa plus ran out it was like well unless he has a statement he wont get any extra support, there is no money.

 

If I had of left it to the school is what Im saying is we would be in a very different situation now, and I do have concerns for children who do behave, look like there playing and getting good grades but socially and emotionally failing, I feel that statements are only for kids that are years and years behind, it use to be 2 years behind but the gap is increasing to three, even four and severe cases where kids have been ignored too long because behaviour was fine 5 years behind in there sats.

 

Js behaviour was much more severe at home, at school he adjusted to routines, had prodictable relationships and could behave if the subject was an interest to him, but that doesnt mean it is without problems and he isnt without need.

 

Parents of some ASD are been told not to bother with a statement, and its the ones whos kids are quiet, well behaved, and highly intelligent, but have real difficulties in other areas of thier life.

 

JsMum

 

 

 

[sadie]

I applied for statement for my DD myself......not "against" the school but being proactive as it was obvious that there were real difficulties which weren't being fully addressed..... and I realised that DD (then aged 4 and about to move up into reception) needed a special school, not least because she wasn't dry during the day! School might have taken same action eventually but as a concerned parent I couldn't wait for them dragging their heels.

[Kathryn]

I think Statements of SEN should only be for those who need it most - not necessarily because they're x many years behind or because they're out of control, but certainly not just because they have a diagnosis of something. It should be done off need - how needy are they and how much more help do they need than that which can be provided for by the school?

 

I agree with this, and of course this principle is enshrined in SEN law and backed up by the code of practice. In an ideal world I think schools should initiate the process of assessment with parents being fully involved and providing input. Of course this would only work if schools were fully trained and resourced and if funding was separate from provision, so that there was no conflict of interest. However as J's mum and others have indicated, theres a big gap between the ideal and the reality.

 

Schools will always have an input because if a child is functioning OK at school (medicated or not, if they're doing OK ,then they're doing OK) then they don't need a Statement.

 

I have misgivings about that one - a school's definition of "OK" doesn't always reflect what is really going on. The phenomenon of the passive child whose needs aren't being met but who holds it together - just - at school has often been discussed here.

 

Medication is a difficult issue as well- if a child is on meds to control an existing condition then that's reasonable, but if the medication is solely to make the child more docile in the school environment, or to counter the symptoms of a depression and anxiety caused by the school environment, that child surely needs an assessment and very possibly a statement. I have come across parents who has been pressurised by the school into putting their unstatemented child on meds, or keeping them on it just so that the school can cope with the child. Meds for children should never be seen as a permanent solution to an educational problem, in my opinion.

 

K x

Edited January 4, 2009 by Kathryn

[Cat]

Schools will always have an input because if a child is functioning OK at school (medicated or not, if they're doing OK ,then they're doing OK) then they don't need a Statement.

 

I suppose it all depends on what a school considers to be OK to begin with? If by OK they mean that thr child is not giving them any problems but are not learning anything then that I believe is not OK. If by OK they means that the child is behving wonderfully at school even though school is winding them up so much that they are exploding out of the school gates everyday then that is not OK either. This is an ongoing issue that many parents that I have spoken to have. Schools simply will not believe that they are in any way contributing to what takes place once the child leaves school. Some children with autism behave well in schools because they believe that they must do so because that is the rule. That does not mean that they understand why they are keeping a lid on their own emotions.

 

I recently helped a family where the child was exploding out of school everyday. A ten minute walk home was taking over an hour some days an hour and a half. The tantrums did not end there they went on right until bed time when the whole family fell into bed exhaused. School insisted that the child was fine and it was nothing that was happening in school which was making the child so distressed. A meeting was set up with the school and along with one of the medics involved with the family. We tried to unpick the school day and what could be creating such an explosive child at the end of each school day. It turned out that the child was so exhausted by 3pm that the end of the day routine of getting his coat, his bag and his shoes and then the bull bait of leaving the school was just too much for him. School were not inclined to accept this but allowed an LSA to help the child collect his possessions and leave by the main doors. It worked from the first day and the explosions stopped there and then. That should have been that but no because the school have never seen what has happened they now want to end the arrangement. The fact is that what was happening in school was impacting on the whole family but school are still very reluctant to believe this which is why I do not think that statements should ever be left just to the school because they do not always hold the knowledge base about the disability that they should.

 

As for medication no child should ever have to be medicated just to enable a school to deal with them or just to take the edge off a child's depression to enable them to be at school. If this needs to happen then the child is not attending the correct school.

 

Cat

Edited January 4, 2009 by Cat

[chris54]

-- I feel that statements are only for kids that are years and years behind, ----

JsMum

You will have to expand a bit on this as I'm not sure if you mean this is the right way or wrong way to go about things.

 

All

The need for a statement from an academic achievement point of view is dependant on a child's ability to "make progress" and not on how far they are behind.

In our case it is felt that our son will fall behind if sufficient support is not provided. There are some other "none educational" issues that need addressing which will/do impact on his school life.

As far as we are concerned the SENCO, the class teacher, the EP and us (parents) are all pulling in the same direction so there is no conflict about the need for an assessment.

 

 

[JsMum]

You will have to expand a bit on this as I'm not sure if you mean this is the right way or wrong way to go about things.

 

I dont feel that children should be getting statements on how far behind they are just in sats, a statement is much more than grades support, a statement should be also given to children with impairments who have significant difficulties in other aspects of there development, especially social and communication, interaction, mental and psychological difficulties.

 

I feel statements are too focused on significant behavioural problems, in some cases severe behavioural difficulties that wouldnt of got soo out of hand if a statement or an assessment had been identified earlier, in some cases severe behavioral difficulties are becoming mental health disorders before any real assessment or need is been saught.

 

Why are we waiting for such extreame cases before an assessment is saught after, what about bright, high functioning children who behave why are they not given as much consideration for there other significant difficulties, if there passing tests, gcses, sats, its like hey there doing amazing, yet completely breaking down in other areas of there development.

 

It makes me so angry I suppose that good bright high functioning ASD children/young people are told they dont need a statement.

 

JsMum

 

 

[Anna Van Der Post]

Some people seem to think it is upto schools to request a SEN assessment for our children.

 

Did you wait for the school to raise concerns or did you do it against the school because behaviour was been modified by medication and the child is bright.

 

Is an assessment of SEN really only for children who are behind their peers in sats and tests.

 

 

JsMum

 

 

In my book all the parents were told that they did not need a statement and as you will see (the book follows six families through from birth to the teens), all the children have had on-going, severe problems. I wish that I had requested and insisted on a statement, it seems to me that without it they block taking action and your options are narrowed.

 

Anna

[nellie]

Hi J's mum,

 

A subject close to my heart and one of the main reasons for requesting my local authority carried out a scrutiny review of SEN.

 

No I don't think it should be left to the school to identify a child's special educational needs or decide if the school can meet the needs from their own resources, especially in complex needs like autism. Very few teachers have the necessary expertise to identify those needs.

 

It is the legal duty of the local authority to identify, assess, provide and monitor special educational needs.

 

I have supported parents of children with autism for some years. Children are failing and reaching crisis point because no one is identifying their needs.

 

If a child exhibits inappropriate behaviour at school, the school may possibly seek help from outside agencies or request a statutory assessment, but what about the child who internalises their problems, the child who pretends to cope, the child who does not want to draw attention to themselves, at any cost. Teachers are failing to see the hidden disability even when parents have voiced their concerns for some considerable time. A child's day consists of 24 hours, we have to start looking at how the child presents in all settings during that 24hrs.

 

An educational psychologist said to me recently "if we don't see a problem or a need then we can't provide for it". That's quite shocking! Just because a school doesn't have a problem with a child, it doesn't mean the child doesn't have a problem with the school!

 

A need cannot be provided for unless it is identified.

 

Local Authorities are often failing in their legal duty to provide parents with information on SEN procedures. Without this information parents don't know they have a legal right to request an assessment or even know what a statutory assessment is.

 

My sons are now 28 and 30, their needs were never identified at school because of lack of expertise. The system failed them both, the system is still failing a huge number of children.

 

The passive child pretending to be normal was discussed on ths previous topic.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...l=passive+child

 

Nellie xx

 

The following is worth noting.

 

 

Taken from the NAPC National Autism Plan for Children Page 93

 

A diagnosis of ASD is important in directing a more accurate interpretation of the behaviour of the child and in opening up avenues of appropriate support and education. However, each child remains an individual and careful assessment of needs and strengths (including interests and learning style) is needed to inform individual educational plans. That much is generally accepted and reinforced by this report.

 

The question remains whether this assessment of needs should be formally identified and legally protected in a statement or record of needs. Paradoxically, this protection is most needed where it is least likely to occur. Thus, in a situation where local professionals are well aware of the needs arising from autistic conditions and services are well adapted to meet this range of needs, the child is most likely to have needs met without a statement or record. It is only where the needs of the child are not recognised by local professionals and services are unable or unwilling to adapt to those needs, that legal protection may be needed to ensure the child and family gain access to what is required.

 

Yet even a legal statement or record of 'entitlement' cannot in reality always ensure the suitability of local services, change entrenched attitudes or inform and qualify professionals. In the long term, therefore, this report looks forward to a more inclusive system where a full range of local services are 'autism friendly' and there is minimal need for such legal protection. In the short and even medium term, however, some legally enforceable record or statement of a child's needs may well be needed and useful in alerting uninformed professionals of the nature of those needs if the needs are being appropriately met at School Action or School Action Plus under the SEN Code of Practice.

 

The NIASA working group does not support the policy of limiting statements or records to a group arbitrarily defined in terms of academic ability as this is likely to discriminate against children with Asperger's syndrome or ASD without learning difficulties. It is also unacceptable to delay appropriate placement pending the production of a statement or record of needs. Just as appropriate provision and support should not wait for a formal diagnosis, nor should it wait for a formal description of needs. Placement or support may alter as needs are assessed and defined, but the process of identifying needs should occur as part of the educational process, not as an entry requirement.

Edited January 5, 2009 by nellie

[bid]

Nellie!! <'>

 

Bidxx

[BusyLizzie100]

Nellie <'>

 

I agree with you absolutely 100 per cent.

 

And thanks for the excerpt - I may be using that!

 

Lizzie x

[Karen A]

Hi J's mum,

 

A subject close to my heart and one of the main reasons for requesting my local authority carried out a scrutiny review of SEN.

 

No I don't think it should be left to the school to identify a child's special educational needs or decide if the school can meet the needs from their own resources, especially in complex needs like autism. Very few teachers have the necessary expertise to identify those needs.

 

It is the legal duty of the local authority to identify, assess, provide and monitor special educational needs.

 

I have supported parents of children with autism for some years. Children are failing and reaching crisis point because no one is identifying their needs.

 

If a child exhibits inappropriate behaviour at school, the school may possibly seek help from outside agencies or request a statutory assessment, but what about the child who internalises their problems, the child who pretends to cope, the child who does not want to draw attention to themselves, at any cost. Teachers are failing to see the hidden disability even when parents have voiced their concerns for some considerable time. A child's day consists of 24 hours, we have to start looking at how the child presents in all settings during that 24hrs.

 

An educational psychologist said to me recently "if we don't see a problem or a need then we can't provide for it". That's quite shocking! Just because a school doesn't have a problem with a child, it doesn't mean the child doesn't have a problem with the school!

 

A need cannot be provided for unless it is identified.

 

Local Authorities are often failing in their legal duty to provide parents with information on SEN procedures. Without this information parents don't know they have a legal right to request an assessment or even know what a statutory assessment is.

 

My sons are now 28 and 30, their needs were never identified at school because of lack of expertise. The system failed them both, the system is still failing a huge number of children.

 

The passive child pretending to be normal was discussed on ths previous topic.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...l=passive+child

 

Nellie xx

 

The following is worth noting.

 

 

Taken from the NAPC National Autism Plan for Children Page 93

 

A diagnosis of ASD is important in directing a more accurate interpretation of the behaviour of the child and in opening up avenues of appropriate support and education. However, each child remains an individual and careful assessment of needs and strengths (including interests and learning style) is needed to inform individual educational plans. That much is generally accepted and reinforced by this report.

 

The question remains whether this assessment of needs should be formally identified and legally protected in a statement or record of needs. Paradoxically, this protection is most needed where it is least likely to occur. Thus, in a situation where local professionals are well aware of the needs arising from autistic conditions and services are well adapted to meet this range of needs, the child is most likely to have needs met without a statement or record. It is only where the needs of the child are not recognised by local professionals and services are unable or unwilling to adapt to those needs, that legal protection may be needed to ensure the child and family gain access to what is required.

 

Yet even a legal statement or record of 'entitlement' cannot in reality always ensure the suitability of local services, change entrenched attitudes or inform and qualify professionals. In the long term, therefore, this report looks forward to a more inclusive system where a full range of local services are 'autism friendly' and there is minimal need for such legal protection. In the short and even medium term, however, some legally enforceable record or statement of a child's needs may well be needed and useful in alerting uninformed professionals of the nature of those needs if the needs are being appropriately met at School Action or School Action Plus under the SEN Code of Practice.

 

The NIASA working group does not support the policy of limiting statements or records to a group arbitrarily defined in terms of academic ability as this is likely to discriminate against children with Asperger's syndrome or ASD without learning difficulties. It is also unacceptable to delay appropriate placement pending the production of a statement or record of needs. Just as appropriate provision and support should not wait for a formal diagnosis, nor should it wait for a formal description of needs. Placement or support may alter as needs are assessed and defined, but the process of identifying needs should occur as part of the educational process, not as an entry requirement.

 

Hi nellie. <'>

Help....what is the NIASA working group please ???? It sounds very good and useful information.Karen.

[Karen A]

Hi nellie. <'>

Help....what is the NIASA working group please ???? It sounds very good and useful information.Karen.

 

Don't worry.....found it.

 

[Karen A]

Thanks nellie.I have spent the morning reading through the NAPC document you mention.It is excellent.

I am now frustrated.How can it be that it appears that the original document was produced in 2002 .Since then we have seen endless other exercices.....National Service Framework,Every Child Matters to mention two.These reports all appear to come up with /repeat important recomendations....better joined up working,improved training,avoidance of post-code lotteries,increased awareness.....but here we are at the start of another year and in practice so many of the issues continue. Karen.