Meltdown in the street it was HELL!

[jonathan]

My son has aspergers syndrome and since he reached nine I have had so many difficulties I never had before with him, he has be calm in the last few weeks but he started school holidays on friday and we went to Jodrell bank on monday and he kept misbehaving(little things) then yesterday I took him to a play area with a close friend and her children who are the same age and my son has grown up with, we do this every holiday and he really enjoys it, yesterday he kept throwing balls around in the seating area where there were babies sat with there mums, screaming REALLY LOUDLY outside the play area, answering me back and saying rude words(I'm used to that though) so I told him more than 5 times if he didn't calm down he wouldn't be able to go to Mcdonalds after the playarea he continued and just kept saying i wouldn't take it off him really and laughing at me, when it came to going even though i had counted down for at least 15 mins telling him we were going he refused to come out of the playarea, my friend and her 2 children sat there nearly 15 mins waiting for him to come out, the children were hungry and I was getting really upset too, I shouted up to him that he had 2 mins to come out or he would lose his mcdonalds, he just laughted and carried on, in the end I told them to go as the kids were getting upset waiting, when he finally came out 20 mins later he wanted to know where they had gone and when i told him they had left and why they had left he got angry, I took him outside and explained everything but he couldn't understand and blamed me for it,

we couldn't get on the bus as he was screaming and we had come in my friends car so we didn't have a lift anymore,so I thought it best to walk(what a mistake) I held his hand and he kicked and punched me in the street with the free leg and arm, he started shout to passers by that I beat him up regularly, that I was a drug addict, and I let him watch PORN!! he got so violent that in the end I had to ring my husband to come out of work to pick us up, and hold him with both arms as he was trying to punch me in the face and pull my hair, because he is nearly 10 years old he has now a similar body strength to me he tried to drag me into the road with him in front of cars when I said you will kill us both he said GOOD!! and it was only when a woman passing by stopped and asked if i needed assistance with him he slowed down abit, then when she said she was an off duty police officer he stopped dead in his tracks like a switch had been flicked, after my husband arrived and the lady went he kept undoing his seat belt and standing up in the van and punching me in the face, we rang CAMHS who said that it was all my fault for taking the mcdonalds off him and to calm him down and have a nice afternoon?? In hindsight I know they were right about the mcdonalds but I did warn him time and time again and he just laughed in my face, is there ANY support network for mums out there as I am constantly being battered by him but no-one cares I want the best for my son but I feel like I don't exist any more as an individual and no-one care what this is doing to me as a woman/mother it breaks my heart and I feel very depressed and lonely as my husband has A.S too and doesn't understand why I take it all to heart and get so upset, am I just being selfish?

does anyone else out there understand please I am on anti-depressants and I've had councelling but they can't help me as my councillor said I am a positive person and that the Aspergers is the problem and that wasn't her field of expertise

[Moll]

:hug:

 

Right CAHMS are out of order telling you you are in the wrong, as parents we must be able to punish our children and rewarding bad behaviour helps no one. You did the best in a bad situation.

 

I think you do need a local support group have you tried the NAS or google to see what there is also do you have a social worker who can put you in touch with any local groups or charities.

 

Also studio 3 is very good I went on a course with them last week and it was so valuable.

 

I wish I was closer as there are lots of support groups in this are that I know about.

 

[les1]

Hi

Just wanted to say we have an 8 year old who is aggressive and has meltdowns.

You were right to take away the mcdonalds, only thing I would say is that you probably gave too many warnings.

We do three as a countdown and then the thing is lost otherwise it is too grey an area for our kids.

I really feel for you.

It is possible he is behaving this way because he feels out of control, this worsens for our kids if we are wobbly about discipline.

Maybe what would help is if you give him clear instructions about his behaviour before you leave the house. Then do whatever you have said will happen if he does not behave.

Help him by telling him what will happen while you are out. Give time limits if possible before you leave the house. It may be that he needs this detailed information for a time.

We will not move from where we are until our daughter is calm, unless others are in danger.

If I can encourage you it would be to say remember you are the parent and you need to be in control, stay calm and speak to him in a low calm voice.

Our kids may have meltdowns because they are having a hard time coping but they are not an acceptable way to behave and he needs to be taught this.

Cahms should be helping by teaching him coping strategies.

keep detailed notes about each incident so that you can let cahms see it.

keep asking for help loudly if you have to.

Hope this helps.

Lesley

[bid]

Have you tried using visual timetables at home, so that your son knows exactly what he will be doing and when? You could also take a smaller picture board out with you when you go out so that he can see when he will be leaving places, etc.

 

I too disagree with CAMHS...you are the adult and the parent, and if your child was misbehaving he needs immediate, concrete consequences, following through any warnings.

 

Good luck!

 

Bid

 

 

 

[Mumble]

it was only when a woman passing by stopped and asked if i needed assistance with him he slowed down abit, then when she said she was an off duty police officer he stopped dead in his tracks like a switch had been flicked

This suggests to me that this wasn't a meltdown but conscious behaviour. In a meltdown, the individual does not have control over what they do and is often unaware of what is going on around them and the only thing that can be done at that stage is to allow the meltdown to run its course. That your son could process that there was someone else there and what they were saying and the potential implications suggests quite a degree of control.

 

 

 

[bid]

This suggests to me that this wasn't a meltdown but conscious behaviour. In a meltdown, the individual does not have control over what they do and is often unaware of what is going on around them and the only thing that can be done at that stage is to allow the meltdown to run its course. That your son could process that there was someone else there and what they were saying and the potential implications suggests quite a degree of control.

 

Very good point, Mumble!

 

Bid

[jonathan]

:hug:

 

Right CAHMS are out of order telling you you are in the wrong, as parents we must be able to punish our children and rewarding bad behaviour helps no one. You did the best in a bad situation.

 

I think you do need a local support group have you tried the NAS or google to see what there is also do you have a social worker who can put you in touch with any local groups or charities.

 

Also studio 3 is very good I went on a course with them last week and it was so valuable.

 

I wish I was closer as there are lots of support groups in this are that I know about.

That is exactly what I need a support group thankyou so much I will try NAS my parents have passed away and most of my husbands family(except my husbands stepmother) has A.S so I don't really have much support at all

thanks again so much

[Kazzen161]

>>so I told him more than 5 times if he didn't calm down he wouldn't be able to go to Mcdonalds>>

 

Our children often become more challenging at around this age - mine certainly did.

 

Do you normally follow through on what you threaten? I am not sure whether he did calm down or not after these initial threats.

 

It does seem as though your child believes you will not follow through (and I know how hard it is when you are with other people, to stick to things that will spoil everyone's day), but I would say a) think carefully about what you are going to threaten - make sure it IS something that you can and will carry through - otherwise don't say it. Once you have said it - carry it through regardless. c) decide what system you are going to use and stick to it every time eg: We will go to MacDonald's if you come out by the time I get to 5...You have five minutes left... You have one minute left...You need to be out by the time I count to 5, or we will not go to Mac Donalds..5,4,3,2,1 (counting slowly, with praise and encouragement for making his way out). Well done for coming out - now we can go to MacDonalds.

 

You can use visual prompts if necessary eg; a token that says "I can go to MacDonalds" that you show him before you go in the play area and remind him what he needs to do to earn it.

 

Once he knows you mean what you say, his behaviour will improve. I know it is not easy, I have let things slip when I am tired, but I always end up paying for it.

 

You also need to use specific language - he may not know what "calm down" means - perhaps he thought he hadn't calmed down, and therefore he had got away with misbehaving. If you say "stop throwing balls" or "no swearing" he will know what you mean (even better, list the rules before he goes in). Sometimes when they are getting over-excited, you need to remove them from the situation to calm down - take him outside for a run, or for a drink, or to the toilets.

 

[jonathan]

Hi

Just wanted to say we have an 8 year old who is aggressive and has meltdowns.

You were right to take away the mcdonalds, only thing I would say is that you probably gave too many warnings.

We do three as a countdown and then the thing is lost otherwise it is too grey an area for our kids.

I really feel for you.

It is possible he is behaving this way because he feels out of control, this worsens for our kids if we are wobbly about discipline.

Maybe what would help is if you give him clear instructions about his behaviour before you leave the house. Then do whatever you have said will happen if he does not behave.

Help him by telling him what will happen while you are out. Give time limits if possible before you leave the house. It may be that he needs this detailed information for a time.

We will not move from where we are until our daughter is calm, unless others are in danger.

If I can encourage you it would be to say remember you are the parent and you need to be in control, stay calm and speak to him in a low calm voice.

Our kids may have meltdowns because they are having a hard time coping but they are not an acceptable way to behave and he needs to be taught this.

Cahms should be helping by teaching him coping strategies.

keep detailed notes about each incident so that you can let cahms see it.

keep asking for help loudly if you have to.

Hope this helps.

Lesley

Hi Lesley

I kept a detail diary from nineth birthday until jan this year but CAMHS wasn't even interested coping strategies are really what we need so I must start being more assertive with them I feel, you could be right about the disipline side I am at my witts end and kids pick up on this and he feels my strength weakening my husband (bless) is hopeless and it as he forgets the rules we set down so when i put them into place he lets J off as he has forgotton them, I've tried writing them down and putting them on the firdge but they both don't read them, not going to give up though I will Keep on trucking forward many thanks x

 

[jonathan]

Have you tried using visual timetables at home, so that your son knows exactly what he will be doing and when? You could also take a smaller picture board out with you when you go out so that he can see when he will be leaving places, etc.

 

I too disagree with CAMHS...you are the adult and the parent, and if your child was misbehaving he needs immediate, concrete consequences, following through any warnings.

 

Good luck!

Awh thankyou but I have done the visual timetables he pulls them off the wall and tears them up when he is angry, but thankyou ever so much for your support x

 

Bid

 

[jonathan]

This suggests to me that this wasn't a meltdown but conscious behaviour. In a meltdown, the individual does not have control over what they do and is often unaware of what is going on around them and the only thing that can be done at that stage is to allow the meltdown to run its course. That your son could process that there was someone else there and what they were saying and the potential implications suggests quite a degree of control.

Hmm interesting as my husband said the same thing, could he just have been having a tantrum and being a naughty child as his mental age is well below 10? I tend to blame the A.S on everything thanks

[jonathan]

>>so I told him more than 5 times if he didn't calm down he wouldn't be able to go to Mcdonalds>>

 

Our children often become more challenging at around this age - mine certainly did.

 

Do you normally follow through on what you threaten? I am not sure whether he did calm down or not after these initial threats.

 

It does seem as though your child believes you will not follow through (and I know how hard it is when you are with other people, to stick to things that will spoil everyone's day), but I would say a) think carefully about what you are going to threaten - make sure it IS something that you can and will carry through - otherwise don't say it. Once you have said it - carry it through regardless. c) decide what system you are going to use and stick to it every time eg: We will go to MacDonald's if you come out by the time I get to 5...You have five minutes left... You have one minute left...You need to be out by the time I count to 5, or we will not go to Mac Donalds..5,4,3,2,1 (counting slowly, with praise and encouragement for making his way out). Well done for coming out - now we can go to MacDonalds.

 

You can use visual prompts if necessary eg; a token that says "I can go to MacDonalds" that you show him before you go in the play area and remind him what he needs to do to earn it.

 

Once he knows you mean what you say, his behaviour will improve. I know it is not easy, I have let things slip when I am tired, but I always end up paying for it.

 

You also need to use specific language - he may not know what "calm down" means - perhaps he thought he hadn't calmed down, and therefore he had got away with misbehaving. If you say "stop throwing balls" or "no swearing" he will know what you mean (even better, list the rules before he goes in). Sometimes when they are getting over-excited, you need to remove them from the situation to calm down - take him outside for a run, or for a drink, or to the toilets.

Thankyou I totally agree with you I think I have backed down too many other times in public and he didn't think I would go through with it and i did so he was very very angry that I went through with it I need to start smaller but stick to the threats instead of giving idol threats and not going through with it

 

[moomum]

Oh I do feel for you, my son is 5 and has meltdowns but he is small enough to restrain and luckily enough he seems to be de-escalating quicker these days, but the meltdowns are the reason his childminder will no longer look after him and I have had bus drivers shouting at me when I have been trying to stop him being run over.....

 

I have had some success with picking battles with T that I know I will win, first you pick the toys up then we can watch a film, if you don't pick the toys up there will be no film for example. If he doesn't comply he gets the consequence and if he does he has a nice time. When I started to do this I must have repeated about 50 times a day 'when you do as you are told you have a nice time' until it all started to get a bit easier and he accepts my authority more easily whatever the situation now. This was awful to start with as every thing was a horrible battle (put your wellys on, brush your teeth, shut the door, go to the shops with me.....) but it only took a couple of weeks for him to learn fast that he had to do as he was told or he would not have a nice time. Now he knows I mean business and he is happier and more confident now he knows I am in control.

 

Also I don't give him more than 3 warnings (usually in the form of a countdown) or more than one chance. If he is rude to me or hits me he is straight in his room with no computer privildges, sometimes I have to carry him there and hold the door until he is calm enough to aplologise but you could not do that with an older child.

 

It is always worse when other kids are there, we had a meltdown which meant I had to ask his friend and her mum to walk home because he kept hitting her and getting out of his car seat, it just wasnt safe. So they walked home in the pouring rain and his friend (who is very fond of him and likes playing with him) couldn't play, so it was like everyone was punished.

 

T is worse when he is hungry, I have learnt to keep snacks on hand in case as he can calm down radically once he has eaten something.

 

I think you did the right thing by not letting him have the McDonalds, if it was me I would say no McDonalds for x amount of time because of the incident and I'd want to see good behaviour (a star chart filled or something) before we went back.

 

You are coping incredibly well and you should be proud of yourself.

 

[moomum]

I forgot to say I do an awful lot of 'I am going to count to 10 and if you have not...... before I get to 10 then there will be no TV/computer/bedtime story.......

 

I usually only get to 8 :-)

[JsMum]

just kept saying i wouldn't take it off him really and laughing at me, when it came to going even though i had counted down for at least 15 mins telling him we were going he refused to come out of the playarea, my friend and her 2 children sat there nearly 15 mins waiting for him to come out, the children were hungry and I was getting really upset too, I shouted up to him that he had 2 mins to come out or he would lose his mcdonalds, he just laughted and carried on, in the end I told them to go as the kids were getting upset waiting, when he finally came out 20 mins later he wanted to know where they had gone and when i told him they had left and why they had left he got angry, I took him outside and explained everything but he couldn't understand and blamed me for it,

we couldn't get on the bus as he was screaming and we had come in my friends car so we didn't have a lift anymore,so I thought it best to walk(what a mistake) I held his hand and he kicked and punched me in the street with the free leg and arm, he started shout to passers by that I beat him up regularly, that I was a drug addict, and I let him watch PORN!! he got so violent that in the end I had to ring my husband to come out of work to pick us up, and hold him with both arms as he was trying to punch me in the face and pull my hair, because he is nearly 10 years old he has now a similar body strength to me he tried to drag me into the road with him in front of cars when I said you will kill us both he said GOOD!! and it was only when a woman passing by stopped and asked if i needed assistance with him he slowed down abit, then when she said she was an off duty police officer he stopped dead in his tracks like a switch had been flicked, after my husband arrived and the lady went he kept undoing his seat belt and standing up in the van and punching me in the face/

 

I have got J a visual time timer, its a concept clock, he can tell the time, but he cant understand the time span, and so this helps him.

 

Widgits is a picture and word software I use and take minuets to make, you could have a set of rules displayed and a list of behaviours he needs to achieve, to get the trip to macdonolds.

 

We use visual aids a lot and it has reduced his frustration and also reminds him as he has short term memory however I cant alway use verbal communication because he becomes very agitated with constant verbal instructions or reminders so we use pictures to break it up a bit, we have learnt that the communication needs to be mimimum and spersific.

 

If I was to tell J he had 15 mins, then 14 mins then 13 mins he would get very agitated which is why I try to finds as many Visual aids as possible.

 

My son is very oppositional and challenging however he wouldnt of gone to McDees if he had of disobeyed the instructions and became uncoperative, he still requires consequences, so CAHMS are wrong to blame you for what you did, if they feel it was that wrong then they need to look at providing you with further stratagies.

 

J does get stressed when he knows he is going from one venue to another so maybe cutting down the transisition or number of changes until he has learnt to cope with interaction, excitement, change.

 

When J was extreamly aggressive and physically violent to me we saw a clinical Psychologist privately and saw a therapist, we have been on a TEENAGERS parenting course too as he was displaying preteen behaviour, early signs of pubity and the teens are just around the corner, It sounds like Im putting your parenting down, Im not as I think your doing a lot of positive things, the teenagers course was a good course though and I have implimented some of the ideas but modified them to meet Js needs.

 

How have things been since he has been home.

 

JsMum

 

 

[Mumble]

Hmm interesting as my husband said the same thing, could he just have been having a tantrum and being a naughty child as his mental age is well below 10? I tend to blame the A.S on everything thanks

Hi, sorry if I came across a bit strong earlier - I was thinking about it on the bus today and was thinking I could have written it more positively - I do tend to write without always thinking about how it will be received.

 

I do think it's important to, as far as possible, understand the observed behaviour in order to deal with it most appropriately. There is a huge difference between controlling behaviour and behaviour when control is lost, yet both may stem from the same initial stimulus - often anxiety - but one is taken far further.

 

If you watch NT children having tantrums (watch them on Super Nanny or The House of Tiny Tearaways) there will often be (very momentary) gaps in their tantrum where they watch to see that they still have the attention of the desired audience or that the intended recipient is beginning to react as they want, and then they carry on in a tantrum/check/adjust tantrum cycle. Behaviours within this tantrum (even things like head-banging) are controlled so as to draw maximum attention with minimal/no pain/harm to the tantrumer. ASD children (and adults!!) are just as capable of the same behaviours.

 

A meltdown is very different - there is no cycle or audience/reaction checking (in fact they may try to get away from an audience) and SIBs (self injurious behaviours) (to use the same example as above for instance head banging) are uncontrolled and likely to be causing pain. The person may be totally unaware of others (and potential dangers) around them - far from being about control, in a meltdown, attempts at control have been lost and the person, literally, goes to ground, and cannot cope with any input. A meltdown is incredibly frightening both for the individual in meltdown and onlookers who may want to help but where every action seems to make things worse.

 

So, to try and answer your question, was he having a tantrum, I don't know, I wasn't there, but there certainly seems to have been quite a degree of control about it. The trouble is that behaviours are different for everyone. A 'tantrum' may be his way of expressing feelings (perhaps anxiety) he can't express any other way - it may almost serve as a pre-meltdown warning. Lots of people have mentioned visual aids which may help with prediction - it also sounds like he's unclear of the boundaries (the line where he says you won't do it) and testing them to know where they are which is why for all children, but especially ASD children, really clear specific rules/sanctions/boundaries backed up with visual cues/timetables are used so that he feels safe in knowing exactly what will happen.

 

I hope that makes some sense - I'm not quite sure myself what point I was trying to make!

 

[call me jaded]

You have some really good suggestions here. Just to reinforce that I think the CAMHS advice was nutty.

 

Boundaries, explaining them and really sticking to them even if it means ruining everyone else's day works a treat here. Only had to do it once or twice for each of my children for the message to get heard.

[jonathan]

Oh I do feel for you, my son is 5 and has meltdowns but he is small enough to restrain and luckily enough he seems to be de-escalating quicker these days, but the meltdowns are the reason his childminder will no longer look after him and I have had bus drivers shouting at me when I have been trying to stop him being run over.....

 

I have had some success with picking battles with T that I know I will win, first you pick the toys up then we can watch a film, if you don't pick the toys up there will be no film for example. If he doesn't comply he gets the consequence and if he does he has a nice time. When I started to do this I must have repeated about 50 times a day 'when you do as you are told you have a nice time' until it all started to get a bit easier and he accepts my authority more easily whatever the situation now. This was awful to start with as every thing was a horrible battle (put your wellys on, brush your teeth, shut the door, go to the shops with me.....) but it only took a couple of weeks for him to learn fast that he had to do as he was told or he would not have a nice time. Now he knows I mean business and he is happier and more confident now he knows I am in control.

 

Also I don't give him more than 3 warnings (usually in the form of a countdown) or more than one chance. If he is rude to me or hits me he is straight in his room with no computer privildges, sometimes I have to carry him there and hold the door until he is calm enough to aplologise but you could not do that with an older child.

 

It is always worse when other kids are there, we had a meltdown which meant I had to ask his friend and her mum to walk home because he kept hitting her and getting out of his car seat, it just wasnt safe. So they walked home in the pouring rain and his friend (who is very fond of him and likes playing with him) couldn't play, so it was like everyone was punished.

 

T is worse when he is hungry, I have learnt to keep snacks on hand in case as he can calm down radically once he has eaten something.

 

I think you did the right thing by not letting him have the McDonalds, if it was me I would say no McDonalds for x amount of time because of the incident and I'd want to see good behaviour (a star chart filled or something) before we went back.

 

You are coping incredibly well and you should be proud of yourself.

thankyou so much sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else who has gone through the same thing, I appreciate your support and advice so much, I must stay in control and not put myself in that situation again where we are walk near a busy road after a disagreement

thanks again x

[jonathan]

Hi, sorry if I came across a bit strong earlier - I was thinking about it on the bus today and was thinking I could have written it more positively - I do tend to write without always thinking about how it will be received.

 

I do think it's important to, as far as possible, understand the observed behaviour in order to deal with it most appropriately. There is a huge difference between controlling behaviour and behaviour when control is lost, yet both may stem from the same initial stimulus - often anxiety - but one is taken far further.

 

If you watch NT children having tantrums (watch them on Super Nanny or The House of Tiny Tearaways) there will often be (very momentary) gaps in their tantrum where they watch to see that they still have the attention of the desired audience or that the intended recipient is beginning to react as they want, and then they carry on in a tantrum/check/adjust tantrum cycle. Behaviours within this tantrum (even things like head-banging) are controlled so as to draw maximum attention with minimal/no pain/harm to the tantrumer. ASD children (and adults!!) are just as capable of the same behaviours.

 

A meltdown is very different - there is no cycle or audience/reaction checking (in fact they may try to get away from an audience) and SIBs (self injurious behaviours) (to use the same example as above for instance head banging) are uncontrolled and likely to be causing pain. The person may be totally unaware of others (and potential dangers) around them - far from being about control, in a meltdown, attempts at control have been lost and the person, literally, goes to ground, and cannot cope with any input. A meltdown is incredibly frightening both for the individual in meltdown and onlookers who may want to help but where every action seems to make things worse.

 

So, to try and answer your question, was he having a tantrum, I don't know, I wasn't there, but there certainly seems to have been quite a degree of control about it. The trouble is that behaviours are different for everyone. A 'tantrum' may be his way of expressing feelings (perhaps anxiety) he can't express any other way - it may almost serve as a pre-meltdown warning. Lots of people have mentioned visual aids which may help with prediction - it also sounds like he's unclear of the boundaries (the line where he says you won't do it) and testing them to know where they are which is why for all children, but especially ASD children, really clear specific rules/sanctions/boundaries backed up with visual cues/timetables are used so that he feels safe in knowing exactly what will happen.

 

I hope that makes some sense - I'm not quite sure myself what point I was trying to make!

I think you are right as we went to CAMHS tonight and a different doctor said she really did think it was a tantrum as he could control the situation by stopping when it suited him, on asking him about how he felt he said he thought because he was in a public place i would back down and once we had passed mcdonalds he realised that there was no going back and I wouldn't back down also that he was extremely angry to the point he wanted revenge on me and the seen in the street was to punish me and show me who is boss! they are sending me some strategies to help me deal with the kind of situations thankyou so much for your help x

 

[NobbyNobbs]

from my point of view

 

i see the behaviour you described from your son in a lot of foster kids (non-asd but very similar behaviour/problems). they are extremely 'naughty' on days out and challenge you when you threaten to take a treat away from them. as you were, we are advised by CAMHS to do whatever we can to NOT take the treat away.

 

while i am very much in favour of sanctions and punishment for bad behaviour, when you understand why you mustn't take the treat away, it is easier to understand where they are coming from. in the case of the foster kids (and this may or may not be the case with your son, but its worth considering) they become so excited about the treat that they lose control of their behaviour and get all over the top. then you start threatening them with sanctions if they do not control that behaviour.

 

this is where the problems start. the kids try to stop, but can't. either they are too excited to control the behaviour, or they try to stop, but don't do enough and... you tell them off again, and threaten the sanctions. at this point the kids subconsciously decide that there is nothing they can do to stop the treat being taken away so they do two things. firstly they try to reassure themselves they won't lose the treat by arguing you'll never go through with it, and secondly they get more and more frustrated that they can't control their behaviour everytime you mention the treat that in the end they completely giving up and either wreck stuff, or run and hide.

in order to not 'give in' to this behaviour, you apply the sanctions and take away the treat. this then creates a cycle and the next time the same thing happens, the kid becomes more difficult, faster and on it goes.

 

with the children we look after, we have to learn to detect when they are starting to gear up into the cycle, and work as hard as we can to tolerate and ignore the behaviour (this is CAMHS sanctioned, so i know its probably why they said it to you). the kid really cannot help it, and taking away the treat makes it worse. (if the cycle goes on long enough it gets to the point where the child will delibrately saboutage the trip before you even get out, to protect themself from being punished and assert control). we're often heard saying 'it doesn't matter how naughty you are today, we are doing this because we want to do it and it will be fun'

 

its very hard, because you just want to scream and punish them when they are so obviously out of control, but it does no good! after a while of tolerating the madness, they start to become reassured that nothing bad will happen, which lowers their stress level, which makes them more able to control their behaviour which then improves the situation.

 

we deal with the behaviour afterwards, so that it does have repurcussions, but not anything while they are still wound up as that just makes them go nuts again. we will talk to the child about their behaviour, and usually take the route of "your behaviour this morning wasn't very good, it was a bit naughty to do XXX, but the day before you did this really well. i'd like you to try and be more like that and not like you were this morning". sounds a bit weak and washy but it really does work! its calm, they can process it and you're giving a clear message of expectations, modelling good behaviour they have done, so they are reassured they can do it.

 

sorry if this sounds a bit lecture-y, but i know how hard it is to deal with this behaviour and i wanted to share what works for us. this method has also worked with an ASD foster kid, so i know its compatible with the spectrum as well.

[moomum]

Gosh Nobby that is really really helpful, thank you! I know that T's behavior radically improved when I stopped telling him off for his behaviour at school - but then having supported him in school I can see that he is goaded and pushed by other kids because he reacts so violently so it just was not fair sanctioning him for bieng pushed to the end of his limits.

 

I'll save your reply because I know there are parts of it I can apply to the way I deal with T that will work alongside what I have that is already working.

 

I think half the battle is recognising when things are about to erupt, and if you can get in there before it all goes nasty and distract or divert then it is usually all ok.

[cmuir]

we rang CAMHS who said that it was all my fault for taking the mcdonalds off him and to calm him down and have a nice afternoon?? In hindsight I know they were right about the mcdonalds ...

 

 

Hi

 

CAMHS make me so angry - I'm glad you've been seen by someone else. For what it's worth, I think you were completely right to remove a treat as a result of his behaviour. He was warned several times and you advised him of the possible consequences, yet he chose to continue. My son R has fairly frequent meltdowns and when I take away one of his favourite toys (at the moment, it's a box of gogos), all hell breaks loose (even worse than the original meltdown/bad behaviour). Yet, if I were to cave in because short-term it's easier, in the long-term I'd be making a rod for my own back. Children, with an ASD or not, need to be sent clear messages about what's expected of them and a reasonable consequence must be carried out as a result of non-compliance or bad behaviour - all children need boundaries. I also think it's important to carry out the consequence as soon as possible. I know full well that R is going to get bigger and stronger than me and that I must find a way of managing him. Even though actioning those consequences is incredibly difficult (both physically and emotionally taxing), R cannot be allowed to behave badly or not do as he's asked and expect to be rewarded. I really think, had you taken him to McDonalds, that he would have effectively been rewarded for behaving the way that he did. In addition, had you taken him to McDonalds, whose to say that he wouldn't have continued onto part 2?! Taking him to McDonalds and then having a chat about it later would have been sending him the message that it's okay to behave badly/not do as he's told and once he gets home, a little chat is the worst that'll happen. It's incredibly difficult to gauge whether a child is able to stop themselves going into full meltdown mode (whether they can help themselves or not) and I must admit to being confused on occasions. However, I noticed with R, even when I've imposed a consequence and he loses it, that once he's calm, he's able to tell me why that happened. I therefore think that that level of understanding about the episode reinforces to me that it's important I provide boundaries and consequences, if those boundaries are crossed.

 

As someone has already mentioned, visual timetables can really help. Social stories can be incredibly effective too. My son used to go into meltdown mode when leaving playparks. I used to give him a 15/10/5 minute countdown and got a mixed response. I then purchased a set of sand colour-coded times and that helped immensely. My son could actually see time passing and was much more accepting of leaving when the time came.

 

That must have been incredibly stressful for you and I think you did amazingly well considering the day's events. It's also nice that the off-duty policewoman stopped to offer assistance - kind of restores faith in others.

 

My husband is suspected as having AS as well as my son (consultant and specialist picked up on some tell-tale traits - thankfully they mentioned it to me and suddenly lots of things started to make sense). Often I feel like I'm on my own dealing with things and because my son and husband are very much alike, it causes a lot of problems. My husband seems to have the knack of winding my son up rather than diffusing situations. Through this forum, I've made two good friends whom I see fairly regularly and it's so good to chat about things that affects us all (it's also good to not talk about AS too!). Support groups could also be a good source of help to you as well. I don't feel as alone, having met others in the same position.

 

Take care.

 

Caroline.

Edited February 18, 2009 by cmuir

[joybed]

Hi we have had exactly the same things with our 13 year old can,t really offer any advice as struggling myself but just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. When on holiday last year in Cornwall Marcus was desperatley trying to ruin the holiday for everyone. i could understand the reasons why he was upset (it never stopped raining the whole time we were there, he was couped up in a caravan with another 4 people 2 of which were only just 4, he had a chronic ear infection and felt ill). After he had been really argumentative and moaned constantly for 3 hours about how he hated caravanning holidays, his whole family and the british weather we sent him to his tent outside. He was shouting to passers by to help him as he was being abused, we were hitting him etc etc. I have never been so embarassed. We got fed up of being inside and went out for a meal that wasn,t good enough and he had a meltdown in the pub. After 4 days of this DH had had enough and took him back to his grandparents house. I cried for about 4 days as i felt I had lost my little boy. things have continued along the same way and i am a loss as to what to do. I know he is having problems at school but it is me that fights for him so why take it out on me. Nobody understands what it is like and school have openly criticised my parenting skills when we are all trying to make the best of a bad situation. i love my son but hope things get better soon as we are all struggling to cope and it is beginning to effect his siblings too. I too have been on antidepressants but am trying to stay off them at the moment, just drink lots of wine instead. Lots of <'> and i hope it gets better for us all soon. Hope this makes some sense and sorry i can,t help more.

 

 

[Suze]

sending you a pm johnathan <'>

[jonathan]

Hi

 

CAMHS make me so angry - I'm glad you've been seen by someone else. For what it's worth, I think you were completely right to remove a treat as a result of his behaviour. He was warned several times and you advised him of the possible consequences, yet he chose to continue. My son R has fairly frequent meltdowns and when I take away one of his favourite toys (at the moment, it's a box of gogos), all hell breaks loose (even worse than the original meltdown/bad behaviour). Yet, if I were to cave in because short-term it's easier, in the long-term I'd be making a rod for my own back. Children, with an ASD or not, need to be sent clear messages about what's expected of them and a reasonable consequence must be carried out as a result of non-compliance or bad behaviour - all children need boundaries. I also think it's important to carry out the consequence as soon as possible. I know full well that R is going to get bigger and stronger than me and that I must find a way of managing him. Even though actioning those consequences is incredibly difficult (both physically and emotionally taxing), R cannot be allowed to behave badly or not do as he's asked and expect to be rewarded. I really think, had you taken him to McDonalds, that he would have effectively been rewarded for behaving the way that he did. In addition, had you taken him to McDonalds, whose to say that he wouldn't have continued onto part 2?! Taking him to McDonalds and then having a chat about it later would have been sending him the message that it's okay to behave badly/not do as he's told and once he gets home, a little chat is the worst that'll happen. It's incredibly difficult to gauge whether a child is able to stop themselves going into full meltdown mode (whether they can help themselves or not) and I must admit to being confused on occasions. However, I noticed with R, even when I've imposed a consequence and he loses it, that once he's calm, he's able to tell me why that happened. I therefore think that that level of understanding about the episode reinforces to me that it's important I provide boundaries and consequences, if those boundaries are crossed.

 

As someone has already mentioned, visual timetables can really help. Social stories can be incredibly effective too. My son used to go into meltdown mode when leaving playparks. I used to give him a 15/10/5 minute countdown and got a mixed response. I then purchased a set of sand colour-coded times and that helped immensely. My son could actually see time passing and was much more accepting of leaving when the time came.

 

That must have been incredibly stressful for you and I think you did amazingly well considering the day's events. It's also nice that the off-duty policewoman stopped to offer assistance - kind of restores faith in others.

 

My husband is suspected as having AS as well as my son (consultant and specialist picked up on some tell-tale traits - thankfully they mentioned it to me and suddenly lots of things started to make sense). Often I feel like I'm on my own dealing with things and because my son and husband are very much alike, it causes a lot of problems. My husband seems to have the knack of winding my son up rather than diffusing situations. Through this forum, I've made two good friends whom I see fairly regularly and it's so good to chat about things that affects us all (it's also good to not talk about AS too!). Support groups could also be a good source of help to you as well. I don't feel as alone, having met others in the same position.

 

Take care.

 

Caroline.

Thanks caroline in the past week I have been sticking more to my guns with any bad behaviour I threaten to take aways something small but at least he is now coming to understand that his bad behaviour has consequences I have tried the letting things go over the past 5 years and he has gradually got worse even though he has A.S he is still a child that will purch boundaries and i have been letting him do this for far to long, he actually came home yesterday and said to me

I CAN'T WALK ALL OVER YOU ANYMORE CAN I? BUT I KNOW YOU STILL LOVE ME bless !

 

[jonathan]

sending you a pm johnathan <'>

thankyou

 

[jonathan]

Hi we have had exactly the same things with our 13 year old can,t really offer any advice as struggling myself but just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. When on holiday last year in Cornwall Marcus was desperatley trying to ruin the holiday for everyone. i could understand the reasons why he was upset (it never stopped raining the whole time we were there, he was couped up in a caravan with another 4 people 2 of which were only just 4, he had a chronic ear infection and felt ill). After he had been really argumentative and moaned constantly for 3 hours about how he hated caravanning holidays, his whole family and the british weather we sent him to his tent outside. He was shouting to passers by to help him as he was being abused, we were hitting him etc etc. I have never been so embarassed. We got fed up of being inside and went out for a meal that wasn,t good enough and he had a meltdown in the pub. After 4 days of this DH had had enough and took him back to his grandparents house. I cried for about 4 days as i felt I had lost my little boy. things have continued along the same way and i am a loss as to what to do. I know he is having problems at school but it is me that fights for him so why take it out on me. Nobody understands what it is like and school have openly criticised my parenting skills when we are all trying to make the best of a bad situation. i love my son but hope things get better soon as we are all struggling to cope and it is beginning to effect his siblings too. I too have been on antidepressants but am trying to stay off them at the moment, just drink lots of wine instead. Lots of <'> and i hope it gets better for us all soon. Hope this makes some sense and sorry i can,t help more.

awhh that is so nice thankyou x

 

[Enid]

This suggests to me that this wasn't a meltdown but conscious behaviour. In a meltdown, the individual does not have control over what they do and is often unaware of what is going on around them and the only thing that can be done at that stage is to allow the meltdown to run its course. That your son could process that there was someone else there and what they were saying and the potential implications suggests quite a degree of control.

 

Hi, my son also behaves in this way when having a meltdown but even when complete strangers and up to 3 police officers turn up!! he continues to act that way until his meltdown has run its course, usually hours or sheer exhaustion. I feel for you because it is soo blumming hard the older they get, especially in the car he is putting yours/his life at risk. Is your son on any medication? and have you got those cards to hand out that say " this person has Autism, please be tolerant"? I had to use them on an escalator recently!!!!! long story. keep strong. Enid

[Enid]

BTW brilliant advice Nobbynobbs <'> Enid

[Mandapanda]

Hi

 

In my humble opinion and experience: my eldest son has definite Asperger's Syndrome. He used to have meltdowns. I have had a teacher say to me "he seems to do it deliberately to upset me". I had to explain to her, calmly, that when children misbehave deliberately they do it to get a reaction from other people. My son had absolutely no understanding that his behaviour could affect other people in any way. When he 'misbehaved' they would take him to a separate room where he could read (his ideal situation!). Because he was always fine there, this confirmed to them he was just being 'naughty' in class.

 

My son's behaviour almost always reflects only his inner emotions, not anything to do with anyone else. He used to become a champion wrestler in the shoe shop - when he got old enough to tell us, it was because he was worried they would tickle or hurt him. He was scared of the vacuum cleaner and would climb onto the back of the sofa - again when old enough he said he was worried his toys would get sucked up. So we have found that, on the whole, there was always a good reason (to him) for him losing control. He also used to feel very sorry for himself afterwards.

 

The main thing we have found helped him at home is being very definite and clear that he should go to his room to calm down and not because he was being punished. When he had calmed down we could talk through the situation with him. Eventually he learned to recognised his feelings building and go to his room anyway. Now he is 15 and we rarely have any problems, but when we do we still deal with it the same way.

 

When out and about, I have found that there are several things that come into play.

 

1. I used to get very tense and anticipate all sorts of trouble especially if we were going with other people. This used to affect my behaviour etc towards him, therefore affecting his emotions and behaviour.

2. He hates unexpected things happening, no matter how good they are. So I have always prepared him verbally for outings and any possible variations that may happen. And calmly talked through each change as it happened. It takes time but it can be worth it. (My mother-in-law once said that I had 'brought him up' to need everything explaining! )

3. Sometimes my son would mimic behaviour he had seen at school. He would see a child doing something and other children laughing and cheering them on, and would therefore think it was a good thing to do!

4. When going somewhere eg. The Natural History Museum, he EXPECTS to go absolutely everywhere in the building and do everything. Naturally there isn't always enough time on a day out to fully complete everything and this used to really do his head in - never really found a way round this. Even explaining that he cannot do everything before we get there doesn't work. This is still a problem, but he does cope with it better now, he just moans on and on now!

 

On other posts you may also notice that when some children have trouble at school it tends to come out at home/in the school holidays. So worth looking into just in case.

 

Good luck <'> <'> <'>

 

 

 

[jonathan]

from my point of view

 

i see the behaviour you described from your son in a lot of foster kids (non-asd but very similar behaviour/problems). they are extremely 'naughty' on days out and challenge you when you threaten to take a treat away from them. as you were, we are advised by CAMHS to do whatever we can to NOT take the treat away.

 

while i am very much in favour of sanctions and punishment for bad behaviour, when you understand why you mustn't take the treat away, it is easier to understand where they are coming from. in the case of the foster kids (and this may or may not be the case with your son, but its worth considering) they become so excited about the treat that they lose control of their behaviour and get all over the top. then you start threatening them with sanctions if they do not control that behaviour.

 

this is where the problems start. the kids try to stop, but can't. either they are too excited to control the behaviour, or they try to stop, but don't do enough and... you tell them off again, and threaten the sanctions. at this point the kids subconsciously decide that there is nothing they can do to stop the treat being taken away so they do two things. firstly they try to reassure themselves they won't lose the treat by arguing you'll never go through with it, and secondly they get more and more frustrated that they can't control their behaviour everytime you mention the treat that in the end they completely giving up and either wreck stuff, or run and hide.

in order to not 'give in' to this behaviour, you apply the sanctions and take away the treat. this then creates a cycle and the next time the same thing happens, the kid becomes more difficult, faster and on it goes.

 

with the children we look after, we have to learn to detect when they are starting to gear up into the cycle, and work as hard as we can to tolerate and ignore the behaviour (this is CAMHS sanctioned, so i know its probably why they said it to you). the kid really cannot help it, and taking away the treat makes it worse. (if the cycle goes on long enough it gets to the point where the child will delibrately saboutage the trip before you even get out, to protect themself from being punished and assert control). we're often heard saying 'it doesn't matter how naughty you are today, we are doing this because we want to do it and it will be fun'

 

its very hard, because you just want to scream and punish them when they are so obviously out of control, but it does no good! after a while of tolerating the madness, they start to become reassured that nothing bad will happen, which lowers their stress level, which makes them more able to control their behaviour which then improves the situation.

 

we deal with the behaviour afterwards, so that it does have repurcussions, but not anything while they are still wound up as that just makes them go nuts again. we will talk to the child about their behaviour, and usually take the route of "your behaviour this morning wasn't very good, it was a bit naughty to do XXX, but the day before you did this really well. i'd like you to try and be more like that and not like you were this morning". sounds a bit weak and washy but it really does work! its calm, they can process it and you're giving a clear message of expectations, modelling good behaviour they have done, so they are reassured they can do it.

 

sorry if this sounds a bit lecture-y, but i know how hard it is to deal with this behaviour and i wanted to share what works for us. this method has also worked with an ASD foster kid, so i know its compatible with the spectrum as well.

Thankyou for your opinion but I have been doing what you advise for many years and this is possibly why we have got to this stage so i wouldn't advice anyone to keep backing down like I did

for so long as the child comes to expect everything their own way all the time my son has had healing lately and is now alot calmer we also have enforced rules as well what is exceptable and what isn't and he is starting to respect that

 

[jonathan]

from my point of view

 

i see the behaviour you described from your son in a lot of foster kids (non-asd but very similar behaviour/problems). they are extremely 'naughty' on days out and challenge you when you threaten to take a treat away from them. as you were, we are advised by CAMHS to do whatever we can to NOT take the treat away.

 

while i am very much in favour of sanctions and punishment for bad behaviour, when you understand why you mustn't take the treat away, it is easier to understand where they are coming from. in the case of the foster kids (and this may or may not be the case with your son, but its worth considering) they become so excited about the treat that they lose control of their behaviour and get all over the top. then you start threatening them with sanctions if they do not control that behaviour.

 

this is where the problems start. the kids try to stop, but can't. either they are too excited to control the behaviour, or they try to stop, but don't do enough and... you tell them off again, and threaten the sanctions. at this point the kids subconsciously decide that there is nothing they can do to stop the treat being taken away so they do two things. firstly they try to reassure themselves they won't lose the treat by arguing you'll never go through with it, and secondly they get more and more frustrated that they can't control their behaviour everytime you mention the treat that in the end they completely giving up and either wreck stuff, or run and hide.

in order to not 'give in' to this behaviour, you apply the sanctions and take away the treat. this then creates a cycle and the next time the same thing happens, the kid becomes more difficult, faster and on it goes.

 

with the children we look after, we have to learn to detect when they are starting to gear up into the cycle, and work as hard as we can to tolerate and ignore the behaviour (this is CAMHS sanctioned, so i know its probably why they said it to you). the kid really cannot help it, and taking away the treat makes it worse. (if the cycle goes on long enough it gets to the point where the child will delibrately saboutage the trip before you even get out, to protect themself from being punished and assert control). we're often heard saying 'it doesn't matter how naughty you are today, we are doing this because we want to do it and it will be fun'

 

its very hard, because you just want to scream and punish them when they are so obviously out of control, but it does no good! after a while of tolerating the madness, they start to become reassured that nothing bad will happen, which lowers their stress level, which makes them more able to control their behaviour which then improves the situation.

 

we deal with the behaviour afterwards, so that it does have repurcussions, but not anything while they are still wound up as that just makes them go nuts again. we will talk to the child about their behaviour, and usually take the route of "your behaviour this morning wasn't very good, it was a bit naughty to do XXX, but the day before you did this really well. i'd like you to try and be more like that and not like you were this morning". sounds a bit weak and washy but it really does work! its calm, they can process it and you're giving a clear message of expectations, modelling good behaviour they have done, so they are reassured they can do it.

 

sorry if this sounds a bit lecture-y, but i know how hard it is to deal with this behaviour and i wanted to share what works for us. this method has also worked with an ASD foster kid, so i know its compatible with the spectrum as well.

Just out of curiosity do you have A.S ? as I saw you your name on another posting

 

[NobbyNobbs]

Thankyou for your opinion but I have been doing what you advise for many years and this is possibly why we have got to this stage so i wouldn't advice anyone to keep backing down like I did

for so long as the child comes to expect everything their own way all the time my son has had healing lately and is now alot calmer we also have enforced rules as well what is exceptable and what isn't and he is starting to respect that

fair enough. it works for us and was only a suggestion, obviously nothing works for all kids and families! hopefully it has given other readers some ideas to try out.

 

EDIT - yes i have AS. dx earlier this year at 23

Edited February 27, 2009 by NobbyNobbs

[bid]

Just my twopennorth!

 

Personally I think there is a distinction between 'ignoring' bad behaviour when it is quite low key stuff which can be a beneficial approach in certain situations...but I think if you ignore the big stuff you run the risk of the child thinking they can just do exactly as they choose with no consequences.

 

I'm a big fan of 'catching them being good'...in other words, loads of praise when they do the right thing or behave well, however fleetingly!

 

I think the key is a good balance between concrete and immediate consequences for negative behaviours and loads of praise the rest of the time. You can also turn around negative situations with loads of praise for even a little attempt to curb the negative behaviour.

 

Bid

[jonathan]

EDIT - yes i have AS. dx earlier this year at 23

That is really interesting as it is nice to see things from another angle my son is only 9 so he is very young, can I ask you did you ever have meltdowns at that age and if so, if you were challenged did it make you feel worse or safer, I am trying to establish how he is feeling when I ask him he says

he doesn't know most of the time ,like he had a blackout my husband has A.S but has never been aggressive at all but he did have a strict up bringing so I'm not sure if this was why he is quieter

but he does have similarities to you with the concentration and only needing a few hours sleep

he is very intelligent but in them days they just thought he was naughty which is such a shame

[jonathan]

Just my twopennorth!

 

Personally I think there is a distinction between 'ignoring' bad behaviour when it is quite low key stuff which can be a beneficial approach in certain situations...but I think if you ignore the big stuff you run the risk of the child thinking they can just do exactly as they choose with no consequences.

 

I'm a big fan of 'catching them being good'...in other words, loads of praise when they do the right thing or behave well, however fleetingly!

 

I think the key is a good balance between concrete and immediate consequences for negative behaviours and loads of praise the rest of the time. You can also turn around negative situations with loads of praise for even a little attempt to curb the negative behaviour.

 

Bid

I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE, WE THINK ON THE SAME PAGE, THANKYOU

FOR YOUR HELP AND UNDERSTANDING, BIG PRAISES FOR GOOD BEHAVIOUR!

[westie]

Hi

 

4. When going somewhere eg. The Natural History Museum, he EXPECTS to go absolutely everywhere in the building and do everything. Naturally there isn't always enough time on a day out to fully complete everything and this used to really do his head in - never really found a way round this. Even explaining that he cannot do everything before we get there doesn't work. This is still a problem, but he does cope with it better now, he just moans on and on now!

 

Good luck <'> <'> <'>

 

 

Hi Mandapanda, in response to part of yr reply as shown above, I have an idea perhaps you could try...

 

Before the trip you could let him research the place on the net/ using a map he has got previously or something and then you/ the family and him can then agree in advance which areas he (you all) wants to visit, and take his plan/list with you which he has prepared??? Maybe in the excitement of the actual day it may not help, but then you will be able to say that he knew and he had control/ decision over which bits he wanted to go to, and you are sticking to the plan this time and that he could plan to go to other areas on the next visit you make????

 

My son likes to be in control and so I have learned that sometimes letting him make certain decisions helps him feel in control and less anxious - and when he has chosen to do his homework at 4.30 on sunday for example, then he cannot argue with me about it, as he knows that if he does not do it he will not be allowed out or to watch tv/ computer until he does. ( I still have to stand over him as he distracts himself any which way and often just needs guidance to stay on track/ understand what is being asked). Does not mean it works 100% and we never have arguements it just makes it easier if you have decided when they in calm mood and receptive what the rules are/ the plan for the day is, and what (if any) are the consequences of not sticking to the rules/ plan.

 

your post also reminds me of when i need to go shopping and j has to come - he tolerates it now but moans all the way round (how many items do we need, have we got everything etc) - I try not to take him if I can because its less stress for both of us!!

 

This thread is interesting reading, lots of good suggestions and advice that I am trying to take on board!

Edited March 1, 2009 by westie

[NobbyNobbs]

That is really interesting as it is nice to see things from another angle my son is only 9 so he is very young, can I ask you did you ever have meltdowns at that age and if so, if you were challenged did it make you feel worse or safer, I am trying to establish how he is feeling when I ask him he says

he doesn't know most of the time ,like he had a blackout my husband has A.S but has never been aggressive at all but he did have a strict up bringing so I'm not sure if this was why he is quieter

but he does have similarities to you with the concentration and only needing a few hours sleep

he is very intelligent but in them days they just thought he was naughty which is such a shame

unfortunately i probably can't give you a useful answer on that one. when i was your sons age i was living in a very difficult home situation, and the fallout from behaving the way your son did would've been far worse than anything i was feeling to trigger it, so i kept everything inside. admittedly i do think that this has had a positive effect on me. because there was no option but to do as i was told, i learned to deal with things that i otherwise would've had trouble with. it was never easy/pleasant to control the feeling of needing to scream/run and hide from what was bothering me, but it had to be done.

 

i've never been violent, but again, thats probably down to experiences in my childhood.

 

the couple of meltdowns i do remember from when i was older, i only remember bits of. i know i had one at universal studios in florida. we spent the whole day there, but i only remember the first hour. i got scared on a ride and refused to go on anymore. my mother dragged me through at least one screaming. i dont remember the rest. i don't know what we did for the rest of the day. i can't really comment on feeling worse or safer. i dont remember much except being really afraid.

[westie]

I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE, WE THINK ON THE SAME PAGE, THANKYOU

FOR YOUR HELP AND UNDERSTANDING, BIG PRAISES FOR GOOD BEHAVIOUR!

 

 

jonathan: reading from the start of the thread to what you are posting now sounds like things moving forward in positive way, and changing things has started things moving forward (I also read your post about the healing, is it Reiki?).

 

I also think that what bid and many other have posted about picking battles, being firm about certain things etc and being clear about what rules are is sound advice. The book "the explosive child" talks about this sort of idea, putting certain behaviours in baskets - A for things you cannot ignore, B for things to work on, and C which are things it may not be worth battling over (well thats how I remember it simplistically, cant check have loaned it to someone though!) .

 

My son has behavior issues these have reduced a lot lately poss due to a number of things, or maybe a cycle of good behaviour (though I think/ hope it is more than just that!)

 

I have tried lots of things as have school including various anger management books/ behaviour and reward systems etc for NT and ASD children. It is hard work esp. to establish the boundaries when they are not used to the idea of consequences so I think you should be really proud of yrself and keep battling on (as we all do!).

 

Some interesting posts on here, lots of different ideas which is good because one thing does not work with every child! With PDA children you have to remember and use a variety of different things as what works one day does not always work the next!

 

Am now trying to help youngest as he has some behaviour issues. For some reason seems as hard the second time round, even though he is a lot better than J was at that age in terms of level of aggression and anger! So reading this is helping to reinforce it in my head as well.

 

Good luck and hope things keep moving forward X

[jonathan]

unfortunately i probably can't give you a useful answer on that one. when i was your sons age i was living in a very difficult home situation, and the fallout from behaving the way your son did would've been far worse than anything i was feeling to trigger it, so i kept everything inside. admittedly i do think that this has had a positive effect on me. because there was no option but to do as i was told, i learned to deal with things that i otherwise would've had trouble with. it was never easy/pleasant to control the feeling of needing to scream/run and hide from what was bothering me, but it had to be done.

 

i've never been violent, but again, thats probably down to experiences in my childhood.

 

the couple of meltdowns i do remember from when i was older, i only remember bits of. i know i had one at universal studios in florida. we spent the whole day there, but i only remember the first hour. i got scared on a ride and refused to go on anymore. my mother dragged me through at least one screaming. i dont remember the rest. i don't know what we did for the rest of the day. i can't really comment on feeling worse or safer. i dont remember much except being really afraid.

Sorry I only just got your answer as I have not been able to get on the forum lately

I feel so sad for you I understand that you had a very strict upbringing even possibly aggressive?(or am I barking up the wrong tree) but it helped you to grow into the person you are today but you lived in fear also, what a shame, you sound very clever and sensible for one so young with ASD I don't want my son to be scared of us in any way, as I am scared at times to be honest if I let him get away with too much he won't understand the difference between right and wrong, my brother-in-law committed suicide in his 20's we now believe he has A.S but it wasn't fully diagnosed but his daughter was diagnosed a few years ago and so was my husband(his brother) he was quite spoilt in many ways and left alot to his own devices as it was a large family, I want my son to feel safe and protected also be able to express himself but also have respect for us and others who come into his life, thanks for your help and advice

and good luck in the future you will probably make a far better parent than your own were one day