Trying not to make the same mistakes twice

[sylvm]

I wonder whether anyone has any experiences of particularly supportive mainstream secondary schools in Herts. If so, I would very much appreciate it, if you could pm me. I know that everyone's experiences are going to be different but I am very anxious not to make the same mistakes twice. To cut a very long story short, I deregistered my DD (yr 8) at October half term. She has been at school action plus for most of her school life. She finds school life very difficult - the organisation, social side of things, processing etc. The other side is she is very volatile and with hindsight I suspect has antagonised greatly the learning support staff through her aggressive behaviour. She is currently learning using an online school but we have now discovered that she has been sending rude messages to some of her classmates. I am also finding it very difficult to have her at home all the time to the point that I dont think I can take much more of it. I need to try to get her back into a school but am anxious that it should be the right one. Of course, most of the popular ones are going to be full but I am equally aware that the so called best schools ie high achieving ones are not always the most supportive for SEN children. So any suggestions, help, ideas would be very greatly received. There have been times recently where I just want to run away from it all.

[Sally44]

I hope you get some info about schools in your area.

It is difficult once you have removed your child from school, because you have taken on all the responsibility which used to be on the LEA.

Even if you don't find the ideal school, your best option might be to try to get her into a school that has an autism unit attached to it. Most LEAs have one maintained mainstream school with an autism unit. That school should have a better idea of her needs.

It sounds like she really needs a Statement. But I think she needs to be in school for you to request one. You can request it, you don't need to wait for the school to do it. And the 'needs' she has are all the ones you've mentioned in your post. Statements are not just about academic stuff. They are about 'social skills' 'emotional response and development', 'language skills', 'sensory difficulties', 'processing difficulties' 'organisation skills' etc.

If your daughter has not been coping, and she has not received the support she needed, she may have figured out that by doing or saying certain things she will be removed from the class.

If she has no social skills, she may just be using rude messages as her way of getting some interaction with others.

If you and your daughter are considering further education, then a Statement goes up to age 19. But even if the LEA agrees to issue one the timescale is 26 weeks, and you need some evidence from his current school (usually around 6 months - to include two IEPs) before you ask for an assessment.

 

Have you looked around other schools to get an idea of the kind of peer group that would suit your daughter.

How is she doing academically compared to her peers?

Look at LEA maintained schools (mainstream with experience of ASDs with autism unit, special schools for ASD), also look at other non-maintained schools to see what is out there. But to get a placement at a school that is not maintained by the LEA you need a Statement and evidence that that school is the only one that can meet her needs and which is the best use of the LEAs resources. Sounds a mouthful, but some parents do get the school best suitable for their child. But your difficulty is that you are starting from a point where she is in year 8 and the system has failed her to the point that you removed her from school.

 

I would recommend you speak with the NAS Educational Helpline and also phone IPSEA.org (their phones are very busy, but keep on trying and you will eventually get through). They will have the best educational advice. Then have a serious think about what is the best way for you to proceed.

[julie1]

just thought ide mention your child does not need to be in school to get a statement. You apply as a parental request its harder without school evidence, but i know of a friend whos dd is home educated and has been for 3 years now. She wants her dd back in school but knows her dd would not cope and needs the support that a statement would provide. The LA have started the process.

[Sally44]

It would be worth speaking with the NAS Educational Helpline or IPSEA to know exactly what the law is on requesting Statements for home educated children as yours must be a relatively common one. Statements are drawn up using the reports made by the LEA and any other documentation or private reports that parents wish to present. Some ASD specific schools can do assessments. There is also an organisation called BIBIC that can carry out assessments, however you have to travel to them - somewhere in Somerset I think. But any documentation you can gather that identifies the needs and difficulties and specifies how those needs and difficulties should be supported in terms of hours of support/therapies or programmes, and who should put together programmes and deliver them and who will monitor the outcomes and how often etc is all going to be helpful.

[trekster]

i empathise with this situation, i m often told "get over it" but in order to do this i need to know exactly what i did wrong and what to do right next time. This is harder when there isnt a right or wrong answer to a situation.

 

Asfor your daughter maybe it would be best if she went to an emotional behavioural difficulties school. As they are experienced in dealing with volatile kids.

Also sounds like she has ODD if she keeps pushing people away and as you said sending rude messages. Does she know they are rude? Autistic can sound rude without meaning to at the time.

 

Alexis

Edited January 1, 2010 by trekster

[bid]

I would have thought that one of your main problems will be the Herts admissions system. You can't actually just send your child to the school you prefer. Have you contacted County Hall to investigate this?

 

Bid

[sylvm]

Thank you all for your replies, any more comments gratefully accepted. I will be on the case tomorrow! It will be down to where there are places at the end of the day, or where we stand the possibility of getting a place before too long perhaps. We will be applying in between admission times, so won't come up against the formal admissions process for Herts but not having a statement is of course quite limiting. I know that technically we could apply for a statement while she is at home but I really feel I need educational support with this. She does not have a formal diagnosis anyway, only a "likely to fall somewhere on the spectrum so far as social behaviours are concerned". However, it does seem to us that many of her behaviours are asd, more so as she is getting older. The volatility has been put down to Tourettes in the past although I have never been totally convinced. We don't seem to have a secondary autism unit anywhere in Herts.

[puffin]

This is a really tough one. Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a full diagnosis and ask the diagnosis team at CAHMS (or wherever) to assess her educational needs as part of the diagnosis process as her situation appears to be rather complex especially if she is prone to violent outbursts and without a specific diagnosis it may be difficult to get the Local Authority to listen to you.

 

Which professionals have given her a 'semi' diagnosis of 'possibly ASD/Tourettes'? I have to say this sounds very vague and unhelpful for a parents. Do you already have contact with an ASD specialist team of doctors/psychologists?

 

I think that a statement would also be a good idea as it will be hard to access any specialist ASD facillities without a statement - or were you looking for a mainstream place?

 

You will need to look around carefully - I wish you luck as finding the right school placement at her age and with her previous school problems will not be an easy task

[puffin]

This is a really tough one. Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a full diagnosis and ask the diagnosis team at CAHMS (or wherever) to assess her educational needs as part of the diagnosis process as her situation appears to be rather complex especially if she is prone to violent outbursts and without a specific diagnosis it may be difficult to get the Local Authority to listen to you.

 

Which professionals have given her a 'semi' diagnosis of 'possibly ASD/Tourettes'? I have to say this sounds very vague and unhelpful for a parents. Do you already have contact with an ASD specialist team of doctors/psychologists?

 

I think that a statement would also be a good idea as it will be hard to access any specialist ASD facillities without a statement - or were you looking for a mainstream place?

 

You will need to look around carefully - I wish you luck as finding the right school placement at her age and with her previous school problems will not be an easy task

[sylvm]

Sorry Puffin, I was rambling a bit there and became rather incoherent! She did not meet the criteria for autism when assessed by the Social Disorders Clinic at GOSH several years ago. However, they said she did have "traits". At the time, she had been having a number of different tics and the Professor we saw felt that this was enough to give a diagnosis of Tourettes which can apparently result in aggressive behaviour. She has also been diagnosed separately with Dyspraxia and also has Dyscalculia.

[trekster]

Thank you all for your replies, any more comments gratefully accepted. I will be on the case tomorrow! It will be down to where there are places at the end of the day, or where we stand the possibility of getting a place before too long perhaps. We will be applying in between admission times, so won't come up against the formal admissions process for Herts but not having a statement is of course quite limiting. I know that technically we could apply for a statement while she is at home but I really feel I need educational support with this. She does not have a formal diagnosis anyway, only a "likely to fall somewhere on the spectrum so far as social behaviours are concerned". However, it does seem to us that many of her behaviours are asd, more so as she is getting older. The volatility has been put down to Tourettes in the past although I have never been totally convinced. We don't seem to have a secondary autism unit anywhere in Herts.

 

 

Have you contacted Jane Vaughan? seregionalteam@nas.org.uk she covers your regional area in the NAS.

There is a NAS branch in Hertfordshire based in Hatfield support@harc-online.org.uk

 

The description on the "Autism Services" site says;

 

harc is a parent/carer led organisation with a large number of member families. harc aims to provide information, support and activities, including: a helpline staffed by volunteers; a newsletter of information and reports with a local focus; support group meetings with invited speakers; a library of books, videos and DVDs; occasional courses for parents/carers and young people with ASD. harc works alongside a number of organisations in Hertfordshire to provide support, including: a support group (C4A) for parents, partners and carers of adults with Asperger syndrome and high functioning autism (in partnership with Carers in Hertfordshire); member of a Consortium of groups in Hertfordshire supporting children and their families; a social group for adults with Asperger syndrome and high functioning autism (in partnership wirh the Community Learning Disability Team and the Youth Service).

 

Alexis

[trekster]

Sorry Puffin, I was rambling a bit there and became rather incoherent! She did not meet the criteria for autism when assessed by the Social Disorders Clinic at GOSH several years ago. However, they said she did have "traits". At the time, she had been having a number of different tics and the Professor we saw felt that this was enough to give a diagnosis of Tourettes which can apparently result in aggressive behaviour. She has also been diagnosed separately with Dyspraxia and also has Dyscalculia.

 

Traits of autism is still autism whether they like it or not. Have you asked the Tourettes syndrome Association for advice on this?

i found a tourettes action group online http://www.tourettes-action.org.uk/ so i dont know if they would be able to help.

 

i thought dyspraxia qualified for an occupational therapy assessment?

 

If you compare the diagnostic criterion for autism against the criterion for tourettes syndrome, how many of the traits match up on the autism criterion but not the tourettes one?

 

Alexis

[sylvm]

Thanks Trekster - I will follow up these links - thanks for sorting them out for me. DD was under an occupational therapist for years but eventually discharged as she had made reasonable progress. I will have to dig out the criteria for both Tourettes and ASD to compare but she hasnt had any tics for years now, but the behavioural issues continue.

[puffin]

There are often parallels in behaviour between kids with Tourettes and ASDs - both are neuropsychiatric disorders and many kids with Tourette have ASD traits even if not fully meeting the diagnosis criteria. Tourettes is also linked to ADHD which can cause impulsive and agressive behaviour.

 

I think given her age finding the right place will be vital - there is some stuff on this site about education and Tourettes

http://www.cwgsy.net/community%2Ftosy/education.htm

 

I saw that on Amazon there is a 'parent guide' to Tourettes syndrome - or perhaps you can get it from the library

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Children-Tourette-...e/dp/1890627364

 

I don't know whether medication is an option for your daughter?

[Karen A]

I hope you get some info about schools in your area.

It is difficult once you have removed your child from school, because you have taken on all the responsibility which used to be on the LEA.

Even if you don't find the ideal school, your best option might be to try to get her into a school that has an autism unit attached to it. Most LEAs have one maintained mainstream school with an autism unit. That school should have a better idea of her needs.

It sounds like she really needs a Statement. But I think she needs to be in school for you to request one. You can request it, you don't need to wait for the school to do it. And the 'needs' she has are all the ones you've mentioned in your post. Statements are not just about academic stuff. They are about 'social skills' 'emotional response and development', 'language skills', 'sensory difficulties', 'processing difficulties' 'organisation skills' etc.

 

Hi.I thought it worth mentioning that I think a child does not have to be in school for a parent to request a Statutary Assessment.A parent can write to the LA [Children's services /Education] direct.There is a draft letter on the IPSEA web site.Although it may well be difficult to obtain agreement from the LA to conduct a Statutary Assessment if a parent has decided to derigister their child it is not impossible.The information required as part of the Statutary Assessment process could be obtained through previous records.Professionals such as the EP can do a home visit.Also some professionals such as CAMHS may have information or be able to do assessments in clinic.

Others on the Forum have been able to have a Statutary Assessment completed in cases where children were not in school due to authorised leave on medical grounds.

 

7:25 Where parents are educating their child at home there will be occasions when parents

may request an assessment. LEAs should seek evidence from the parents and

professionals involved with the child so that they can consider whether it is necessary

to assess

 

See COP 7:25.

Karen.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Karen A

[JsMum]

As she is DX with Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Tourettes Syndrome and Autistic Traits they can assessess her as she meets the criteria there, as regaurds the Autistic Traits her needs still have to be met as though she did have a full dx of ASD because she could as of yet be dx with and ASD in the future, so the fact that someone has raised concerns that she has Social, communication and behavioural difficulties she should recieve a statement of needs, which should also meet her needs as if she was ASD, though I would still push for a further assessment for an ASD as she is clearly showing enough traits for it to be now considered to be officially ASD, what ever the outcome though they have to treat her needs, those needs are ASD traits, so ensure that it is clearly in her statement. (not if, but WHEN you get one!)

 

JsMumxx

 

[trekster]

Thanks Trekster - I will follow up these links - thanks for sorting them out for me. DD was under an occupational therapist for years but eventually discharged as she had made reasonable progress. I will have to dig out the criteria for both Tourettes and ASD to compare but she hasnt had any tics for years now, but the behavioural issues continue.

 

if there aren't any tics she shouldn't qualify for a tourettic diagnosis afaik.

[trekster]

As she is DX with Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Tourettes Syndrome and Autistic Traits they can assesses her as she meets the criteria there, as regards the Autistic Traits her needs still have to be met as though she did have a full dx of ASD because she could as of yet be dx with and ASD in the future, so the fact that someone has raised concerns that she has Social, communication and behavioural difficulties she should receive a statement of needs, which should also meet her needs as if she was ASD, though I would still push for a further assessment for an ASD as she is clearly showing enough traits for it to be now considered to be officially ASD, what ever the outcome though they have to treat her needs, those needs are ASD traits, so ensure that it is clearly in her statement. (not if, but WHEN you get one!)

 

JsMumxx

 

Any disability or special circumstance (such as an adopted child) i would have thought qualified for a statement?