School says one hour a day is not informal Exclusion

[Ceridrial]

Hi all

 

My 7yr old is having problems at school

 

He was diagnosed with asp. a few months ago after many attempts to get appointments with professionals etc...

 

I called the school after talking to IPSEA, who said the school were 'informally excluding him' - here is the letter i got back.

 

"May I affirm to you that xxx is not currently excluded. If a pupil is excluded from school, the parents/carers receive full and formal notification: it is not a procedure which is carried out informally. As a school we are well aware of the legal implications of exclusion

 

Following xxxs misbehaviour on Wednesday 2nd December, I met with the Educational Psycologist, Behaviour Support Consultant and the SENCO to discuss possible next steps. We met with you to share the information, and consult with you, at the reintegration meeting on Monday 7th December. This resulted in the part-time timetable that we drew up at the meeting aiming to: get xxx back into school;maximise xxxfeelings of capability and success; make the best use of any additional support available. I believe it was made clear at the meeting that this was a short-term arrangement until we had the results of xxxs statutory assesment.

 

I am sorry if you feel a little unclear on some points.

"

 

if anyone can give me any help/guidance on this it would be gratefully received.

 

[call me jaded]

Hi

 

Your first port of call should be your Parent Partnership Service. Some are more independent than others. But involving another party does seem to get results.

 

What you also need to ask the school is how their actions are complying with Disability Equality Duty. I'm pasting part of a letter that our parents group has used very effectively - you need to adapt it for your own circumstances, obviously:

 

 

The school has said there are health & safety issues and that the child needs one-to-one support when in school, for which the school has insufficient funding. Evidence is being gathered for an assessment.

 

Having seen SLT reports in this particular incidence I have no doubt that this child would meet the definition of disabled under the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) of having 'a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities' and as such the school should be making reasonable adjustments.

 

The recent High Court ruling on the boy known as 'JT' who has ADHD has clarified that protection under the DDA still applies even when there are health & safety concerns. In addition, sending this child home after just one hour also seems to be perilously close to an informal exclusion.

 

You then need to ask to see the risk assessments, etc.

 

It's quite a common problem. Our group is currently gathering evidence about how widespread the practice is and we are working with the local authority to get some guidance out to all schools that they must not reduce hours whilst undergoing assessment.

 

Best of luck with it. Quiet persistence usually pays off.

 

 

 

[justine1]

Hi,my 6 yr old has recently being excluded twice,both for two days.I never heard of "informal exclusion" it was exclusion!Both occasions I recieved a letter( this is a general letter with ammendment on why he is excluded,from when until when etc.) also the LA was informed,this happened the same day as the exclusion.

 

He then went to a re-intergration meeting/s on the day he returns,during which time the school let him know their "expectations"

 

I am confused about the letter you recieved as they say they never informally excluded him but yet they admit they had a re-intergration meeting???

Did you recieve any letter from them when he was excluded?

 

Sorry not much help I am also new to this,but my son is also having same probs at school.I hope to get him statemented and then see whether to take him out of the school he is at.

[Kazzen161]

I have queried this before at the school where I am a Governor, and I was told that if the EP/Beh Support/EWO agree that it is a suitable option, then reduced hours are not counted as an exclusion.

 

I feel that it should only be a short-term option, and you should be asking what difference the assessment will make - what things will they be able to do then, that they cannot do now (and why can't they do them now)? They must have experience of children with asd - have they already put in place all the usual strategies?

[justine1]

Hi,my 6 yr old has recently being excluded twice,both for two days.I never heard of "informal exclusion" it was exclusion!Both occasions I recieved a letter( this is a general letter with ammendment on why he is excluded,from when until when etc.) also the LA was informed,this happened the same day as the exclusion.

 

He then went to a re-intergration meeting/s on the day he returns,during which time the school let him know their "expectations"

 

I am confused about the letter you recieved as they say they never informally excluded him but yet they admit they had a re-intergration meeting???

Did you recieve any letter from them when he was excluded?

 

Sorry not much help I am also new to this,but my son is also having same probs at school.I hope to get him statemented and then see whether to take him out of the school he is at.

Sorry Read your post again and now I understand,so just ignore my above post!

My sons school have mentioned a similar option to me for my son and I told them straight this is not acceptable,he is entitled to full time ed and if they wont provide it then I am taking him elsewhere.Did they consult with you first?If you had agreed at the meeting then there may be little you can do,but they should at least give you an estimate on how long to wait before he can attend full time.

 

I have now learnt not to agree to things straight away rather think it over first.I agree with call me jaded you need to get in touch with Parent Parnership mine is great and feel she completely understands me and my family and that she is on my side which is important when it feels the school is so against you.

[JsMum]

 

 

Hi the wording of misbehaviour needs to be further investigated, what exactly was his misbehaviour?

 

Is he attending for just one hour a day?

 

A part time table was implimented for my son in late yr 5 due to him not coping and so he attended when there was full time support for him and lessons he enjoyed for example Art, and so he started flexi schooling.

 

It was ment to be a short term solution but everytime they increased the hours J couldnt cope again, in the end we knew that due to Js needs a mainstream enviroement was never going to work, we looked into specialist education provision.

 

It could be that your sons school and the Behavioural consultant are not totally understanding your sons AS needs.

 

JsMumxxx

 

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I recall when my son started P1 (he's now in P4) that his behaviour was so bad during his first hour (not even his first full day!) that the HT asked for a word. I was effectively told that if kiddo behaved like that again, I'd have to collect him. I was incredibly upset, but even more angry! I told the HT the next day that this was not acceptable. My son is entitled to an education and that the staff had been fully briefed by me and given a bullet-pointed document detailing issues, possible triggers, possible solutions, etc. Told her that staff were unprepared because they hadn't heeded what was being told and they had failed to support him. Biggest issue for me, though, is that what do they think a child sitting at home playing their playstation/PSP/DSi/Wii/etc is going to achieve? Sure, I'm all for sending a child home is they pose a health and safety risk to themselves or others, but it's very much down to the LEA to work with parents and help the child cope/manage in school. If they aren't coping, they must put strategies in place, seek outside professional assistance, and then if that doesn't work, seek a specialist placement. Can't help think that sending a child home or cutting down hours is shirking responsibility and not addressing issues. Should add, after having re-read your post, that if a child is suffering from extreme anxiety, that seeking advise/assistance from CAMHS might be a beneficial route (I've had to do that for my son - medication was prescribed with the intention of reducing anxiety). Might be worth contacting NAS or IPSEA and see if they can offer advice.

 

Caroline.

[JsMum]

Should add, after having re-read your post, that if a child is suffering from extreme anxiety, that seeking advise/assistance from CAMHS might be a beneficial route (I've had to do that for my son - medication was prescribed with the intention of reducing anxiety).

 

When I went to cahms to recieve more help for my son who had at this time now been dx with mental health disorders due to intense anxiety the pysch wouldnt prescribe medication for anxiety or issue any further sickness notes because if his school provision was not meeting his SEN then no amount of medication would help, only mask his difficulties.

 

Since J has been attending a special school they have put in place techneques to help him deal with his anxiety, also his enviroement is drastically changed to meet his needs.

 

JsMumxx

 

 

[Ceridrial]

Hi all

 

firstly - can i say a big thank you to you all for your replies - it means a lot. i will read them again (normally a few times for it all to sink in lol)

 

we're hoping to get him into a special school for 2 days a week, and mainstream the rest of the time. We are going through statementing currently,

 

i spoke to LIPSEA(?) and they said that one hour a day is really informal exclusion and the school cant do it.... its not fair, like you say, whats him being at home going to achieve, he's entitled to an education and not getting one.

 

i just get so annoyed and frustrated (they first wanted to do a managed move to another mainstream school, but when i pointed out it would be the same they soon backed down)

 

 

grrrr

[Kathryn]

The tone of the school letter is somewhat patronising I think.

 

Unless your son has been formally excluded, what they are doing is still illegal, whatever the school choose to call it. There are limited situations where a pupil can be given temporary authorised absence, but the school are still responsible for providing full time education, somehow, somewhere (which amounts to about 21 hours a week for someone of your son's age). If your son is still undergoing statutory assessment, it will be a while until he gets a statement and he should not remain in limbo during that time.

 

Have a look at the DFES guidance on exclusions: Improving Behaviour and Attendance and consider complaining to the LEA that your son is not receiving the education he is entitled to.

 

K x

[Ceridrial]

he was formally excluded for 2 days, which was why we had the re-integration meeting....

 

yes - i got VERY annoyed when i read the letter, but you dont really want to p-off the school, DS is targetting ppl now, whereas before he would hit you if you were near, now he will get up and hit you!

 

we have help from COPES, counselling service, and i work fulltime so i get out and see real ppl, but my OH can't really go out and its really hard (i know you all know how that feels!)

[Ceridrial]

the school have put in lots of things for him, his own desk, a number of quiet places, allow him to sit with class or stay at his desk, mood cards, i do think they are trying ..... but....

[Kazzen161]

If you are aiming to get him into the special school part-time, is there any way he could attend there part-time now? They would get to know him and you would get to see if it was a suitable place for him (I presume you have looked round the special school already - not all of them are good with children with asd). Our county has Behaviour Units, and children who are excluded or attending part-time school go there for a few sessions a week - they work with the school to help get the child into school more, and they contribute evidence to the assessment process.

[Ceridrial]

unfortunately this all came up near the end of term, so we havent had a chance to see/talk about it. Its called St Marys, in Horam, (any one know it?)

 

but we will look into it next week or so (but its also if we can get him in?!?)

[cmuir]

Since J has been attending a special school they have put in place techneques to help him deal with his anxiety, also his enviroement is drastically changed to meet his needs.

 

JsMumxx

 

 

Hi

 

Hope I'm not veering off topic, but I think JsMum has a valid point...

 

'put in place special technques to help him deal with his anxiety...' That's exactly what should happen. Sounds like the things were handled really well in J's case.

 

Sadly, in my son's case, there was no other option. I was extremely angry that I felt forced into my son being prescribed medication, since the LEA turned down a placing request, etc. In addition, I argued that having him on medication is only going to mask the symptoms of him not being able to cope, which is no solution. That said, the fact that R was prescribed medication, gave me a lot of amunition, since a child on Risperidone (A mood stabilising drug) for extreme anxiety is hardly a child that's coping. I've been able to ensure that his support isn't decreased, which I guess is something. Also, R was unable to continue on the medication for more than 3 weeks, since we had 3 failed attempts at getting baseline tests ie weight, height, blood pressure, blood test, etc. Even that was too stressful for him. Still, the fact remains that I've been able to argue about the level of his anxiety and have a handful of reports from CAMHS to back me up all the way.

 

Schools and LEAs should be catering for the needs of kids on the spectrum by educating them appropriately in social skills/not just academic skills, instead of plumping for the easy way out for them, which can be medication (I should add, that although medication didn't work for R and I felt forced into R trialling it, it can work and it can be valuable).

 

We hear lots about inclusion, but sadly kids are put in mainstream schools and that's when the cracks start appearing. Despite often well-meaning staff, they don't always have the expertise to help a child, schools don't have enough funding, and in some cases, schools don't always like 'outside' interference (ie external professionals).

 

Really hope that things get better for kiddo soon.

 

Caroline.

[Sally44]

I think the best advice has already been given. Get everything in writing. Always send in a letter to school or the LEA and send in a clarification letter after any verbal discussions. It is worth knowing that letters to school do not automatically go onto their school record unless the parent requests it. Any letters to the LEA SEN dept automatically go on their records.

 

A Statement can secure any additional funding over and above that that the school receives if it is specified in the Statement. But in the meantime they seem to be using exclusions as a way of keeping him out of school because school cannot cope with his behaviour due to him not being able to cope in the school environment.

 

Keep in touch with IPSEA and get a copy of the Code of Practice to make sure you are up to date on the procredures. Also contact the Parent Partnership. They are useful as an extra support and can give you advice and take notes and ensure that school follows the correct procedures.

 

If you don't have anything in writing about the exclusion, then I would request a copy of that from school.

 

All of this, as horrible as it is, can be used by you as part of the Statementing process as evidence that his current school environment is not suitable and that they cannot meet his needs. So have a look around at other schools in your area that have experience of ASDs. If the LEA does not have anything suitable, or no places available, you can look at schools out of area or independent or private schools. You won't necessarily get a placement in the school of your choice, but it is worth seeing what is out there, because you can ask for it as the placement in section 4. Then the LEA has to prove that they have a better alternative which is a better use of their resources. In some cases the LEA cannot prove that and you may get the placement you want.

[cardiff_mum]

sorry had to ask, what did he do? you see, ive been told that the schools are not allowed to punish a aspie for aspie typical behaviour! this is a row i have had with my sons school time and time again, and the phrase i used to them was "would you punich a child in a wheelchair for not running a race at sports day???"

 

[NickyB]

sorry had to ask, what did he do? you see, ive been told that the schools are not allowed to punish a aspie for aspie typical behaviour! this is a row i have had with my sons school time and time again, and the phrase i used to them was "would you punich a child in a wheelchair for not running a race at sports day???"

 

The school must show that they have made reasonalble adjustments to allow for a disability. This comes from the Disability Rights Code of Practice:

 

'The duties make it unlawful for a responsible body to discriminate against a disabled pupil by excluding him or her from the school for a reason related to the pupil’s disability. This would be less favourable treatment.'

It then goes on to explain this in detail but I won't put it on here as I think I'd run out of space! Here's a link to the Code: DRC CoP

 

Hope that's of some help <'>

 

 

[Ceridrial]

 

 

he's now been sent home with a letter - advising he was punching a teacher in the stomach (i have another post on that!)

 

but i want to move him to a special school now - i've had enough!

[cardiff_mum]

i totally understand the situation u face, i have had this problem for nearly 2 yrs with my sons school. when he was in nursery, he got sent home nearly every day for punching/kicking/hitting teachers.

what the schools need to understand is that its part of the condition they have. punishment DOES NOT work. when my son was being sent home (befor we had any idea that it was part of AS) i tried every punishment known to man (and even made some new 1s up!). not 1 worked.

does your son have a statement? as without 1, a special school cant be introduced.

also, i dont know wot area your from, but in cardiff we have a service called SNAP who offer advice on law and all that stuff to do with SN. if you have 1 of these services in your area get in touch, they can come to school meetings and stuff and they really help.

i wish u all the best as i know how frustrating and cruching it is to have this happen

xxx