new foods

[tjw]

hi

i have just tryed some boiled rice on george age 7 because i am trying realy slowly to get him to eat more food groups in his diet which at the mo is not good, it just upsets me so much he had one spoonfull which was great and he said he loved it then he started gaging i thought he was going to be sick, i feel so guilty when this happens because i no this will happen but i should keep trying shouldnt i ???? he has never had any veg real meat potatoes so far and i just worry, the only meat he has ever eaten is a burger yuk, but i feel just rotten when i beg him to try just one new thing. any ideas and do other people children gag when trying new food i no it is a lot to do with textures but i keep away from any i think he will hate he also only eats dry food no wet.

theresa

[baddad]

hi

i have just tryed some boiled rice on george age 7 because i am trying realy slowly to get him to eat more food groups in his diet which at the mo is not good, it just upsets me so much he had one spoonfull which was great and he said he loved it then he started gaging i thought he was going to be sick, i feel so guilty when this happens because i no this will happen but i should keep trying shouldnt i ???? he has never had any veg real meat potatoes so far and i just worry, the only meat he has ever eaten is a burger yuk, but i feel just rotten when i beg him to try just one new thing. any ideas and do other people children gag when trying new food i no it is a lot to do with textures but i keep away from any i think he will hate he also only eats dry food no wet.

theresa

 

But he wasn't sick?

Why feel guilty for trying to help your child broaden his food options and eat healthily (particularly the latter)? Yes, you should keep trying.

Have you had him checked out that there is no physical problem? if so, and the problem is either psychological or 'reflex' there really isn't any other option for helping him but keep trying, IYSWIM.

A few years ago there was a statistic in the States that more people die from choking on burgers and hotdogs than any other foodstuff. Not sure if that still holds good, but the main reason was that they are so solid that when they do get stuck it forms an immovable 'plug' that's really difficult to get moving again. They also expand in moisture, making it even worse.

If you feel the problem is texture related make a long list of the things he does eat and find healthy/wider alternatives that 'match'. If on doing that you find that there actually is quite a wide range of textures you may have to reconsider what you think is happening.

Obviously not a comment on your son, because you haven't given any details, but often parents cite a problem with texture but then give a list of acceptable foods that encompass just about all textures - yoghurts, biscuits, nuggets. burgers, sweets, crisps, cheesy strings, weetabix etc. How different, texture-wise, is a chip from a carrot? A nugget from roast chicken without added batter? A burger from mince in a shepherds pie? A yoghurt from tinned fruit and custard?

 

Hope that's helpful - and please don't think I'm trivialising your problem because I'm not: I just think it's easy sometimes to find yourself in a position where the wood is obscured by the tree.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

[justine1]

Hi Theresa

When I lived with my ex he would "force" all three boys to eat what was put in front of them,thats the way he was raised.We eat lots of rice,Sam would gag on this every night we ate rice,because my ex forced him he would have tears streaming down his face,it was so awful

Sam still wont eat rice and definatley wont force him to eat anything.If Sam wants to try something he will if he gags then I will leave it.He used to eat cheese everything,sandwiches/lasagna etc. ,now he eats loads of different foods,he never even had birthday cake until two years ago.Last night we had rice and steak,Sam loves steak but had it with spaghetti with loads of...cheese!I have noticed when he wants to try something new he smells it alot and feels the texture then tries it.Dont give up trying new foods but I think he can decide when and when he will try.

[trekster]

Hi Theresa

When I lived with my ex he would "force" all three boys to eat what was put in front of them, that's the way he was raised. We eat lots of rice,Sam would gag on this every night we ate rice, because my ex forced him he would have tears streaming down his face, it was so awful

Sam still wont eat rice and definitely wont force him to eat anything. If Sam wants to try something he will if he gags then I will leave it. He used to eat cheese everything, sandwiches/lasagna etc., now he eats loads of different foods, he never even had birthday cake until two years ago. Last night we had rice and steak, Sam loves steak but had it with spaghetti with loads of...cheese! I have noticed when he wants to try something new he smells it a lot and feels the texture then tries it. Don't give up trying new foods but I think he can decide when and when he will try.

 

Hes unable to forget the traumatic events that your ex put him through. No big deal if he doesn't eat rice unless he was unable to eat

any other alternatives to rice. It really bugs me when people have the "well i was brought up that way so he can be" type of attitude. Your

ex sounds very inflexible and that's supposed to be an autistic problem.

 

This is going to sound strange but i know autistics who sense atmospheres, so they sense you are tense about the situation (which is understandable)

and that strong emotion puts them off eating.

 

There are some sensory integration books around, do they mention the problem of "selective eating" (faddy eating is for NTs only). i know Sharon Hellers

book on sensory defensiveness mentions this. i think there was a nerve in a child's body that wasn't working properly that once reset enable an 'anorexic' child to eat!

 

Could it be a texture issue as well? If there is a texture he can tolerate eg creamy could you make the rice creamer by adding some tolerated yoghurt to it for example? If you dont tell him it is rice does he realise what the foodstuff is?

 

Good luck both to yourself and the OP.

 

Alexis

[baddad]

(faddy eating is for NTs only).

 

Alexis

 

No it isn't - no more than non-faddy eating is. It's that kind of circular thinking that creates 'myths' about autism. The thing is, there is wholehearted agreement about the existence of autism 'myths' there are just huge differences of opinion about what the myths are...

It's the same kind of thinking that gets applied to professionals - the opinion of any one professional who tells the parent/patient what they want to hear is far more 'valid' than any number who tell them what they don't want to hear...

Or the old favourite that 'every child is different' that completely overlooks the fact that 'every parent is different' too while also conveniently overlooking the pretty much established psychiatric/psychological understanding that nurture - in terms of childhood development - plays a much more significant role in terms of the psychology of the adult (give me a child until the age of seven and i will give you the man) than 'nature'.

As far as faddy eating goes, every single parent of every single child - whether autistic or not - will believe their child is the exception to the rule. Certainly - in common with many autistic 'traits' - the fact that some autistic people behave a certain way makes it far easier to project it onto others without fully looking at the facts, but it does not mean they are exceptional - just that the 'claim' that they are is less likely to be challenged. The same applies to many other assumed 'autistic' behaviours.

You know the worst thing about that? Every autistic child who does - by hard work, determination, compromise etc etc - manage to overcome something will find that achievement diminished, because the assumption will always be not that they have achieved something but that the degree of their 'disability' was less - this latter made with a complete disregard for like for like comparison but based on yet another set of sweeping generalisations and assumptions.

Again, as always, no comment on any individual contributing to the thread; just a comment on the sweeping and unreasonable generalisation above...

Oh, and inflexibility isn't supposed to be an exclusively autistic problem either - but it is at least directly connected to the kind of things that are part of the diagnostic criteria.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

[tjw]

hi and thanks for the replys bd what you say about texture makes a lot of sense because he will eat yogurts which are wet but will not at anything else wet, his diet is mainly dry yorkshire puds fishfingers he would live on crisp if i allowed not a big sweet fan as in jellys but likes biscuts, i have never made him eat want he says he doesnt like and he did try and explain that it felt funny in his mouth so that is why i was thinking texture, i think it is mostly to do with change and he panics as soon as i say lets try something new today, i think i wont tell him but put a few options on his plate not touching of course are i will contaminate his meal. justine that is realy sad that your ex did that to your son i bet you were in tears at meal times i have told george about your son having spageti and he says he will try that tommorrow as long as he can spit out if he dosent like i also hope you are feeling a bit better and manage to get your washer sorted. hi trekster i afraid he always no when something different is on his plate he will smell the food then have a fit if i dont remove thanks for the advise on the books i will look into these, i have taken to dr and spoke to chams about this but they say he will try new and varied diet as he gets older i think i proberly stress to much about it he is on vitamins and he is not a small boy for his age but his range of food is mostly dairy. it just when i do give him new foods and he reacts like he did it makes me feel like poo, but i think also you were right with the tension thing he is proberly picking up on me being stressed and baddad you are right he wasnt sick so i will keep trying new thing i might look into a different diet altogher i think there is advise on here to ween him off dairy i will have a nose around, but once again thanks for all your advise i feel better in myself now for not being an evil mummy lol

cheers

theresa

[baddad]

i think it is mostly to do with change and he panics as soon as i say lets try something new today, i think i wont tell him but put a few options on his plate

 

I think the panic/resistance to change is probably a big part of it, and I think that's a really good 'plan' with side-orders of other options

Many major breakthroughs seem to come from involving the child in food prep etc, and also in drafting significant others into the process, and approaching it as a 'game' or 'challenge'...

One of my son's friends isn't autistic but is very very difficult re food. We both get a bit PO'd of having to eat the same stuff when he comes around so are always 'encouraging him'... We never make a big issue of it, but over the past year or so he's probably increased his acceptable veg selection by about 200% which is much better for us!

Hope the other suggestions re finding matching textures etc help as well.

 

Very best with it

 

L&P

 

BD

[Kathryn]

Many major breakthroughs seem to come from involving the child in food prep etc, and also in drafting significant others into the process, and approaching it as a 'game' or 'challenge'...

 

I think this is a good idea. My son does not have AS but has always been a bit narrow in his food choices too. Since he started secondary school he has discovered an interest in cooking. He will always at least taste what he has helped to cook or prepare even if it contains foods he doesn't normally eat.

 

Good luck with this

 

K x

[Tally]

I was also going to suggest involving him with cooking. Since I started doing my own cooking, I find I am willing to try many more things than I did when my mum did it. I also like picking out my food from the shop too, so maybe involving him with the shopping might help too. And if you really have nothing better to do, then you could even try getting him growing some vegetables in the garden!

[KarenT]

Agree with using games to make food fun.

 

A couple of years ago I got J to eat a variety of greens by playing 'herbivorous dinosaurs' on the dining room floor. We made ourselves dens and laid a blanket on the floor, and piles of lettuce, kale, rocket, cucumber etc that we had to claim as our food source (which involved lots of baring of teeth and growling at each other). He particularly enjoyed the fact that on this occasion he was allowed to eat like an animal by picking it up in his teeth (though I did draw the line at urinating on the food as a sign of ownership ). Some of those foods he tasted once and has never tried again, but others have become part of his routine food repertoire which is a success in my book.

 

We went on to repeat the exercise as carnivores with a variety of cooked meats, with the same results.

 

5-point scales worked really well to help J learn not to label foods as Loved or Hated. He learned degrees of OK-ness and has accepted now that food doesn't have to be an all-time favourite for him to tolerate eating it. This has widened his range a lot.

 

One other thing we did was to pick a few foods at a time to work on and have a chart to show his progress. We'd start by tolerating the new food on his plate, moving on to touching it, smelling it, licking it and so on until he was able to eat a piece and enjoy it. Only one new food on his plate at a time, sometimes balanced with a favourite for encouragement.

 

I have even used financial motivation and paid him to try some foods, which has worked often.

 

There are loads of things you can try, but it would be good if you can get away from feeling guity about widening his choices. Give him lots of rewards for at least trying and that will outweigh any anxiety he might feel about the newness of it. However, I would agree that it's not a good idea to forced anything, food or otherwise. Take it in small steps if you want to see results.

 

Karen

x

[joybed]

Both my boys are very different as far as food goes. When marcus was weaned early (14 weeks) because he was a hungry baby, he refused everything and spat it all out. I think in hindsite this was partly because he was too young and partly because of food issues. When he did eventually eat something it was strawberry yoghurt powder mix which was disgusting and virtually only that for a long while. As he has got older he prefers meat and veg and sausages chicken nuggets etc and of course chips. He gags just seeing a baked bean or cheese and refuses to sit to the table if someone is eating food he doesn,t like. He is overweight and has a tendency to overeat and does no exercise, i have tried everything to get him to eat healthier and exercise to no avail. He recently tried pasta (very proud of him) and now eats this once a week but complains bitterly about it. He won,t try rice. HE gets enough and eats a balanced diet with plenty of fruit.

Piers on the other hand weaned at 17 weeks and ate everything. His favourite foods are mussels, squid, snails and olives. He prefers highly flavoured food and will try anything. He often eats his own meal and then eats everyone elses as well. At times he eats loads and other days eats next to nothing. The other strange thing about him is somtimes he likes really spicy foods and other times complains very loudly about even mildly spicy food. Once i found him eating a raw chilli and he said it was yummy the next day i gave a pasta sauce with half a dried chilli in it and he kicked off, I have put this down to sensory differences on certain days. The food he has most problems with are cottage pie he says it is baby food and doesn,t like the texture but does eat it. He says he wants to be a chef when he gets older like Jamie Oliver and run his own pub, he loves helping me cook and try new recipes and likes watching cookery programmes Jamie and Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall being his favourites. Marcus wont help in the kitchen because of sensory issues with flour, raw egg etc. Piers unlike his brother is underweight and very small for his age.

I suppose what i am trying to say is child is an individaul ASD or not. I have far more food problems with my NT daughter than either of the boys, She hates all meat and most vegetables, hard fruit hurt her teeth, she mainly lives on yoghurt ,although like Piers she also was good eater so hopefully she will come around and we are not making it an issue.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

My son is 8 and is picky (his diet is fairly limited, but not perhaps to the same degree as some others). I'm trying to encourage him to try new food. In Rs case, I've found that by asking him to try something (very small portion - spoonful) and then offering a 'way out' if he doesn't like it, has helped massively. I ensure there's a drink of water and a bowl, so that if he doesn't like it, he can dispose of the contents of his mouth quickly - the water obviously offering a way of getting rid of any after-taste. Sounds a bit unpleasant, but it means he knows that any unpleasant taste is short-lived and he's not stuck with food he hates. The other side of the coin is that he's experienced trying new food (lasagne and brown bread) and really liking it. It's taken a while, but I think the key is to approach it in a relaxed way and if kiddo refuses one day, try again the next day, and the next, etc. I'm really pleased that he's at least trying new things.

 

Caroline.

[baddad]

Hi -

I just wanted to add a general observation to this thread...

the word 'force' has cropped up a few times, and i think that's a very emotive word that should be used with caution. It will mean completely different things to different people, in the same way that it does when applied to (i.e.) discipline or other expectations.

Some people will regard any kind of pressure that makes their child uncomfortable in any way to be (abusive) 'force', while other people will feel equally strongly that challenging boundaries and 'pushing' the child to redefine his/her comfort zone is a fundamental part of the developmental process and that not doing so is a form of abuse.

Obviously tying a child to a chair and shoving a funnel down their throat is unacceptable force and abusive - but putting four food items on a plate and saying 'I want you to at least try one of those before I let you devour your usual plateful of chicken nuggets and chocolate hob-nobs' isn't. And a child gagging at the sight of something or as soon as it's put in their mouth should not be taken as an indicator of an 'extreme reaction' either to flavour or texture or anything else - it can be a reflex, or - heaven forbid - it can be the child exerting control over their environment and making sure that mum (or dad) feels suitably crappy and doesn't try it again.

Children who eat a wide variety of what is - let's face it - cr*p of all flavours and textures without a problem (sometimes to the point of obesity) but who reject everything else haven't got a 'sensitivity issue', and responses should not be tailored to the assumption that they have.

 

Have I ever tied my child to a chair and stuck a funnel down his throat? No.

Have I consistantly from his early years encouraged, cajoled, bargained, 'pushed' him to try new things to a degree that some here would judge negatively? Probably.

 

As for the usual suspects - Nuggets; sossidges; fish-fingers;crisps;biscuits;yoghurts;cheesy strings; weetabix; chocklit;chips;McDonalds et al... At some point (unless these things were always served every day from the outset) food that was put in front of the child and refused was taken away and replaced with these items on the basis that he/she 'had to eat something' and these 'favourites' would meet his/her approval. Every single time that happened (happens) the cycle was (is) reinforced, and the more entrenched that becomes the more difficult it is to overcome...

 

A bit of an aside, but my cat was recently put on steroids... At first I had to force her mouth open every day, clamp her jaw shut and massage her neck until she swallowed. My cats reasoning, I'm sure, is far less developed than that of most of the kids who parents identify with food issues, but she learned within a week what the expectation on her was and that if she wanted her bowl of felix it was easier to 'go with the flow'. Not suggesting that as a feeding technique for kids, of course, but the underlying principle of expectation and 'going with the flow' is worthy of consideration, and our children have a far greater capacity for understanding and working with us to that end.

 

L&P

 

BD

[got the tshirt]

I don't know if anyone remembers Tanya Byron ? [ tiny tearaways] she is still around, I remember her saying that you need to put a new food on a child's plate at least 20 times before you could expect them to try it. This way it becomes a familiar food, not a new food.

Just a thought cos she had some seriously selective eaters on that show.

It sometimes works with Dd3 although the first few times the new food goes on her plate she rejects it straight away and usually dumps it on someone elses plate!! Not great manners I know but we are workin on it.

[trekster]

No it isn't - no more than non-faddy eating is.

 

Excuse me but my final paper at university was on diet and autism. "Selective eating" is the term used for autistics as the reasons behind autistic selective eating and NT faddy eating are different.

 

Dont forget bd that you often disagree with me since most of the comments of "it could be autism" get met with "no all kids do it", well all kids might do x behaviour but the autistic reasons are different.

 

i was diagnosed 14 years ago and since then ive amassed many books on the subject and communicate online and IRL with many parents and autistics.

"cant eat wont eat" by brenda legg clearly documents the differences between "selective eating" and "faddy eating" (name me an NT whose addicted to milk as it gives them a high for example)

Or the old favourite that 'every child is different' that completely overlooks the fact that 'every parent is different' too while also conveniently overlooking the pretty much established psychiatric/psychological understanding that nurture - in terms of childhood development - plays a much more significant role in terms of the psychology of the adult (give me a child until the age of seven and i will give you the man) than 'nature'.

 

We could be here til next millennium debating nurture vs nature. i rebelled against my upbringing as i knew it was wrong. Other kids could have been conditioned to beleive they had to hit anyone who hit them, or that vegetarianism was wrong, or that homosexuality was a disease.

As far as faddy eating goes, every single parent of every single child - whether autistic or not - will believe their child is the exception to the rule. Certainly - in common with many autistic 'traits' - the fact that some autistic people behave a certain way makes it far easier to project it onto others without fully looking at the facts, but it does not mean they are exceptional - just that the 'claim' that they are is less likely to be challenged. The same applies to many other assumed 'autistic' behaviours.

 

"Faddy eating" isn't part of autism though, it's called selective eating, since in autistic kids the condition refers to kids who go for sensory input or wish for a high from their food. Nt kids can have very different reasons for their eating disorder. Dont forget im an autistic adult here whose both female and verbal 2 myths of autism so i wouldn't be portraying myths of a condition since i had 2 exceptions to the rule. My selective eating (nothing that tasted of grass or was slimy) improved with gf/cf living. i still don't see the point in butter and marge in my diet and would find it slimy and unpalatable.

You know the worst thing about that? Every autistic child who does - by hard work, determination, compromise etc etc - manage to overcome something will find that achievement diminished,

 

i experience that when i tell my mum what part of my autism i have overcome, so i've stopped telling her when i achieve something many autistics are unable to do (except the showering, brushing hair or other aspects of my aspergers she doesn't think are asperger).

because the assumption will always be not that they have achieved something but that the degree of their 'disability' was less - this latter made with a complete disregard for like for like comparison but based on yet another set of sweeping generalisations and assumptions.

 

Agreed which is why i wouldn't say "faddy eating didn't apply to autism" unless i had some evidence.

Again, as always, no comment on any individual contributing to the thread; just a comment on the sweeping and unreasonable generalisation above...

 

ie mine (since you didnt quote anyone else), which happens to be true and many parents of autistic kids beleive me, including those on a gf/cf diet forum im a mod on.

Oh, and inflexibility isn't supposed to be an exclusively autistic problem either - but it is at least directly connected to the kind of things that are part of the diagnostic criteria.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

That is a totally different thing to faddy eating, since inflexibility applies to sensory disorders, PTSD and a couple of other anxiety disorders to mention a few.

 

[trekster]

i agree with Tally and Kathryn here as this happened for me as well. Once i was in control of my food choices i could also make sure they were cooked to my liking ie more salt and less of the ingredients that bothered me.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

I don't know if anyone remembers Tanya Byron ? [ tiny tearaways] she is still around, I remember her saying that you need to put a new food on a child's plate at least 20 times before you could expect them to try it. This way it becomes a familiar food, not a new food.

Just a thought cos she had some seriously selective eaters on that show.

It sometimes works with Dd3 although the first few times the new food goes on her plate she rejects it straight away and usually dumps it on someone elses plate!! Not great manners I know but we are workin on it.

 

Was wondering if reverse psychology could work? ie "dont eat that it's mummy food".

 

Karen what a lovely story and creative way you've had with encouraging your son to eat.

 

As for force my definition is having a parent to shut at the child to get them to eat certain foods. If they wouldn't then calling their kids names, smacking them or using some form of physical punishment to get them to eat would be unacceptable. holding a kid down to get them to take something im not so sure on i think it depends on the level of trauma experienced by the kid.

 

Alexis

[baddad]

Excuse me but my final paper at university was on diet and autism. "Selective eating" is the term used for autistics as the reasons behind autistic selective eating and NT faddy eating are different.

 

Dont forget bd that you often disagree with me since most of the comments of "it could be autism" get met with "no all kids do it", well all kids might do x behaviour but the autistic reasons are different.

 

i was diagnosed 14 years ago and since then ive amassed many books on the subject and communicate online and IRL with many parents and autistics.

"cant eat wont eat" by brenda legg clearly documents the differences between "selective eating" and "faddy eating" (name me an NT whose addicted to milk as it gives them a high for example)

 

We could be here til next millennium debating nurture vs nature. i rebelled against my upbringing as i knew it was wrong. Other kids could have been conditioned to beleive they had to hit anyone who hit them, or that vegetarianism was wrong, or that homosexuality was a disease.

 

"Faddy eating" isn't part of autism though, it's called selective eating, since in autistic kids the condition refers to kids who go for sensory input or wish for a high from their food. Nt kids can have very different reasons for their eating disorder. Dont forget im an autistic adult here whose both female and verbal 2 myths of autism so i wouldn't be portraying myths of a condition since i had 2 exceptions to the rule. My selective eating (nothing that tasted of grass or was slimy) improved with gf/cf living. i still don't see the point in butter and marge in my diet and would find it slimy and unpalatable.

 

i experience that when i tell my mum what part of my autism i have overcome, so i've stopped telling her when i achieve something many autistics are unable to do (except the showering, brushing hair or other aspects of my aspergers she doesn't think are asperger).

 

Agreed which is why i wouldn't say "faddy eating didn't apply to autism" unless i had some evidence.

 

ie mine (since you didnt quote anyone else), which happens to be true and many parents of autistic kids beleive me, including those on a gf/cf diet forum im a mod on.

 

That is a totally different thing to faddy eating, since inflexibility applies to sensory disorders, PTSD and a couple of other anxiety disorders to mention a few.

 

I'm really sorry, but i think the reason they call it 'selective eating' if autism is involved is because any professional who doesn't make a distinction will be ignored. Also, there is far more money to be made from publishing a book that justifies or normalises something like this than one that 'challenges' the person who wants to justify or normalise the behaviour. As I said (either in this thread or another) - the five professionals who tell a client what he doesn't want to hear will never be given the same kind of 'validity' that is afforded to the one who does tell the client what he wants to hear, regardless of the obvious flaw in that logic. Religions, political empires and all sorts of quackery and fakery have been sold by exploiting that basic human tendency...that's not going to be popular, and i don't think for one second you'd ever agree with me because I think you have a huge investement in autism being a justification for every negative in your life. Though i don't know you personally, so couldn't possibly say, I do know many people who after achieving a diagnosis have subsequently 'acquired' all sorts of behaviours, intolerances, disabling effects etc that have never previously been significant factors in their lives. Often that's ascribed, without any real sort of investigation, to that person 'coming to terms' with their autism, but personally I think it has as much to do with personal psychology as anything else, and, for my own part I tend to be more inspired by those whose dx becomes a positive factor within their lives - who use it to put the past into context and move forward rather than backwards.

I do think that a very small number of faddy (or selective, if you prefer) eaters do have issues that go beyond the obvious, but i stand by what i said that it is far easier to say it is something 'exceptional' if autism is a factor when there is little evidence to indicate any sort of 'exceptional' circumstances whatsoever - and I think the same kind of thinking gets applied to all sorts of other aspects of behaviour. I don't think for a minute that 'it could be autism' will always equate to 'no all kids do it', but i think an assumption that something that can be evidenced within a significant percentage of the non-autistic must be 'different' when it manifests within the behaviour of an autistic child is incredibly dangerous. The problem is, as soon as an autistic child does evidence one of these kinds of behaviours the usual interventions are rejected, so you have no 'universal' response for comparison. That said, on the very odd occassion that an autistic child does crop up on one of these Tanya wossname programmes they do seem to respond to the 'usual' interventions - but then, of course, they're probably 'the exception to the exception' along with all the other autistic kids who have their achievements undermined using the same gainsaying technique...

'Myths' are easily built (and for the record, being female and verbal does not 'bust' any autism myths. There are millions of verbal female autistics - there just appears to be less of them than male verbal autistics, for whatever (real or unrecognised) reason)... Lets take something (tongue in cheek) as an example:

a good 75% of women after a divorce would probably say of their ex - 'he was a selfish, inconsiderate b*stard'... Walk into a room full of women who have divorced men with a diagnosis of autism (or a 'home' or projected diagnosis of autism) and that same 75% will be regarded as 'proof' that autistic men are selfish, inconsiderate b*stards. Blimey! If you was a psychologist you could probably make a good living writing books and running workshops on it!

Try it yourself - take any aspect of human behaviour, address it within the context of an 'autism group' and watch the association develop.

In a similar vein, it would be very easy, if i were diagnosed with autism, to say that my inability to eat all sorts of soft fruits - (melons, mangoes, things like that) without retching was an 'autistic hypersensitivity'. Without a diagnosis, it's just a slightly unusual quirk...

Once again, you've proved incredibly adept at understanding the complexities of the comments in my original post, so I'm sure you won't have any problem with any of the above.

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

Neither my ASD son nor myself have ever had any difficulties with food. Of my other three children, two have severe multiple food allergies and one has no medical difficulties. Of these three, one 'allergic' one has never had any difficulties eating everything that she can, the other 'allergic' one was a very selective eater when he was little, and the one with no medical difficulties has huge 'issues' with tomatoes, pickle, banana, eating things in a certain order and spoons!

 

Within the above context here are a few thoughts...

 

I brought up all 4 of mine the same way, offering a wide range of foods from when they were weaned, and never having processed food in the house (not because I'm saintly but because first of all DS 1 didn't like it and then my two allergic ones can't eat it so no point). However, they have all had a different approach to eating presumably because they are all individuals.

 

What I have tried to do is stay the same with how I have reacted to their various eating issues. As I say my AS son has never been a worry, other than eating us of house and home. The littlest 'allergic' one did cause me worries (some old threads about here somewhere). At one point he only wanted to eat soya milk, bread and bananas! It was a slow process, but we just kept offering a wider range of foods, not making too much of a fuss, and sometimes being pretty firm when needed. At 8 he now eats a perfectly normal range of foods. Eldest DD, she of the spoon phobia, has had her tantrums about food along the way, but I'm afraid in a large family it's just been turned into a running joke (huge serving spoon by her plate, etc ) so it's never had a chance to develop into anything really serious.

 

In my humble experience of 4 kids, I would say that any child can have difficulties with food...but I do think it's accurate to say that there is an increased incidence among autistic children. I also think that if you only have 'healthy' food in your kitchen and only offer this food, thats is what your kids will eat, albeit with tussles along the way. I wonder if the reason so many autistic kids with food difficulties will eat processed foods (biscuits, chicken nuggets, etc) is to do with the fact they have very obvious flavours, so a sensory-seeking thing. Ditto those who will only eat very bland food (mashed potato, pasta, etc), so a sensory-avoidant thing?

 

Lots of good suggestions here, about how to offer and present a wider range of foods so hope the OP finds something to help

 

Bid

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I believe that any child can have a aversion to eating specific foods whether it be down to taste and/or texture. Picking up on a point made, I also believe that children's diets can be determined by the parents approach, for example, if a child is given chicken nuggests, pizza, sausages rolls, chips, then the likelihood is that they'll continue eating those types of foods (same can be said for fruit and veg). Also, a 'surface' relaxed but disciplined approach by parents can help too. However, children are individuals with minds of their own and whilst to a degree they can be coaxed, there's no guarantee their going to make the desired food choices. Sometimes is does come down to texture and taste and not just preference for rubbish. What I'm saying is that food issues aren't exclusive to children on the spectrum, however, it can be much much more difficult to get around these issues and that's where the issue lies (I don't feel that parents are automatically to blame, but agree, they play a big part).

 

Caroline.

[baddad]

In my humble experience of 4 kids, I would say that any child can have difficulties with food...but I do think it's accurate to say that there is an increased incidence among autistic children. I also think that if you only have 'healthy' food in your kitchen and only offer this food, thats is what your kids will eat, albeit with tussles along the way. I wonder if the reason so many autistic kids with food difficulties will eat processed foods (biscuits, chicken nuggets, etc) is to do with the fact they have very obvious flavours, so a sensory-seeking thing. Ditto those who will only eat very bland food (mashed potato, pasta, etc), so a sensory-avoidant thing?

 

Bid

 

 

Firstly, apologies for my post above - it was written somewhat in haste and very poorly. I logged on this morning to edit it and to add some stuff on exactly the points made above, but unfortunately 'time was up' (feel free, mods, to edit/delete on my behalf, because I really don't want to spend any time 'defending' anything I said badly that may be misinterpreted).

I too agree that there is likely an increased incidence of food related problematic behaviours in autistic children, and I think aspects of the autistic condition (but not, necessarily taste or texture sensitivity) are related to that. I also think that once a behaviour is established for an autistic child it can be, for reasons related to aspects of the autistic condition, much more difficult to re-establish more positive behaviours. Again, I think that relates to a far wider range of issues than just food. I also think that in may cases the responses to these issues are often coloured by assumptions and prejudgements about cause and effect, and that this can be compounded by environmental 'variables' and the psychological make up of those influencing those variables.

A couple of things that strike me about the issue of food sensitivity:

in many years of work with autistic adults I did not see any evidence of it professionally among the large number of autistic adults I worked with. I could now, since 'awareness' of this 'problem' has grown, pretty much guarantee that if i walked into a support group for autistic children and raised the issue there would be at least fifty to sixty percent recognition of this by parents as a factor for their own child. (as an aside, that's probably about the same percentage of mother's who would happily diagnose their husbands/the childs father as on the spectrum too! )

This problem seems to predominantly arise among the more able autistic community (not exclusively, by any means, but i know far fewer non-verbal 'classically autistic' children with food related issues (excluding pica!) than verbal ones). I can't help that feel that this higher incidence among children who have developed more self awareness, greater 'theory of mind' and a better understanding that their behaviour can influence and have an influence on their environment is more than coincidence.

One factor I overlooked in last night's post is the one of 'obvious flavours' and the 'high' that trekster mentioned as a theoretical link to something like milk. What is apparent is that very often 'chosen' foods do have a very obvious taste 'pay off' or even a chemical one (chocolate for endorphin stimulation, or crisps and processed foods for lovely big MSG fixes, curries (my personal vice) for the heat (it's a pleasure/pain/sexual thing, apparently ), and it stands to reason that a child (or even an adult) rejecting foods successfully to gain more of the stimulants they crave (chemical or purely taste driven) will continue to do so.

The relationship people have with food these days is far more complicated than it's ever been. Supermarket shelves are accumulating bigger ranges of gluten free/wheat free/dairy free/superfood/wholegrain/Gillian McKeith endorsed etc etc foods daily. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and it does offer much wider variety and options to those who have suffered real physical discomfort or health problems etc for years... but it's also a sign of the times: it's 'faddy' eating. increasingly the divide seems to be 'faddy eating with Gillian McKeith' or 'Fatty eating with Ronald M and the Colonel' and it's the middle ground that's getting eroded. To suggest that autistic children are somewhow exempt from those influences, or that the parents of those children/the environments those children inhabit are exempt from those influences is completely unrealistic. Add the other factors i highlighted at the top of this post into the equation and food issues with autistic kids become quite predictable, but not, necessarily, for the reasons that are usually used as an explanation.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

PS> Not sure if that makes my first post any clearer, and certainly still unlikely to be a widely popular view Food for thought, though (no pun intended), I hope.

PPS . Just seem Cmuirs post above, and would agree that parents aren't 'to blame' as such. It's a complicated and difficult issue and a very emotional and emotive one. i do think, though, that it is very easy for all of those reasons for parents to find themselves in a situation where they 'can't see the wood for the trees', and I think under those circumstances it isn't a good thing when parents insist on only looking at the 'trees' that offerv immediate reassurance.

 

BD

Edited January 9, 2010 by baddad

[justine1]

I just wanted to add something to this debate.I really,really think there is a huge difference between a "fussy eater",like those who dont eat veg or like junk food and those kids who stick to one food for months on end!Fussy eaters will often eat what ever else is available if they chose not to eat whats on the dinner table whereas kids like mine would rather starve than eat anything but what they always eat!!!

 

I think I was definatley a fussy eater,I hated all pasta(spag bol,mac cheese,lasagna) I would rather go hungry than eat that!I also hated pizza,my mum made pizza from scratch-dough and all!!!In fact my mum is a brilliant cook,I know it sounds bias but she can cook anything from virtually nothing,and she could feed an army from very little,she would often cook for up to 25 kids during holidays as she would bring kids over from the local orphanage to swim at our house (In south africa.)So my mum never wavered in that what we got on our plates is what we need to eat,I used to go hungry.Both me and my brothers had severe milk alergies and my mum is a health freak so we never had take aways,we never ate sweets as most had colorants which brought on my asthma attacks,my mum did say when I was a year old I ate her tuna sandwich which had raw onion in ad she always remembers it as she has never seen any other child do this(she has worked with kids all her life.)Due to my eating "problems" I was extremely skinny but was never dangerously so.To cut a long story short as I reached my teenage years I ate everything trying new foods and now I am definatley not fussy and have no issues with any food.

 

To come back to my own children:my eldest son weaned early he was a very hungry baby and I made his food from scratch(no bottled stuff) he was also breastfed until the age of two,he can eat anything and he eats very good sized portions(he is skinny.)He eats curry,chinese,pasta,chicke EVERYTHING!!!!

So when Sam came along and I started weaning him at 6 mths,he was not interested in food at all,he started eating pureed apples at about 10mths and couldnt feed himself,when I went to a healthcheck at 18 mths he still never ate on his own.At two all he would eat is cheese sanwich and an african soup,he also occasionaly liked bland porridge.He contined eating this way until he was four.He seemed to improve when he started full time at school,trying new foods.Now he has gone back a bit and mostly eats peanut butter/cheese sanwiches and "dry"spaghetti.He is really good with fruit and especially loves exotic stuff like pinapple,mango,avacodo and loves apples always has.He does not eat junk,he only eats the cheese off a cheese pizza,he hates nuggets ,doesnt eat sausages or sausage rolls and rarely eats chips(usually if he is hungry.)

 

Then Daniel who is really,really underwight,he will not eat and when he does its cereals.He did eat his dads spag bol,which I would freeze the mince,he ate this everynight for 8 mths.His dad doesnt live with us,and he went away for three months last year,so I have often tried refusing to give him the food,placing what we were eating in front of him and sending him to bed with nothing.After the three months were up I had made 0 progress and my son was so weak and thin that all he did was sleep.I went to the GP and they said I should just feed him what he likes,even if its unhealthy,I got this same advice when Sam was two.Unlike Sam,Dan does not even ask for food when he is hungry and when I ask him or put food in front of him he will say "its all finished" or "it will make me sick" he even went through a stage of saying "I will get fat" as he is not a school I dont even know where he got that idea from,even more so that he is seriously underweight.Dan also likes exotic fruit and at the moment he eats 1/4 of a watermelon everyday.We all eat at a table at dinner time and it is relaxing,I dont put pressure on any of them,but I do try encourage them to try food.

 

Neither Sam or Dan like sweet things,though Dan likes crisps(only walkers worcester sauce,YUK!!!!)At christmas only me,my eldest and my baby ate trifle,well the baby ate most of it,first time he tried it!!!!

 

My youngest is nearly 18mths and he is similar to my eldest,in that he loves all food,he did wean late though.He is much heavier and healthier looking than Dan and when I pick him up my arms hurt but with Dam I can hold him up with one finger(not that I would its a little unsafe.)

 

So,while it is very likely they will "grow out of" eating this way,I know its nothing I have done as a parent,esp as I am on a budget and hate to throw food away and cant afford to make separate meals for each child.I am also not saying every child in this situation has AS/ASD. am saying that my children would go hungry if they didnt eat the foods they chose to eat,and I will always have the foods there for when they are ready to try them.

[justine1]

Forgot to add,I think with obesity on such an increase I think most people would not CHOSE to feed their kids junk,in my case when Dan has not eaten for days on end Mcds(the only junk he eats) seems like the last resort and he does only get this every two weeks,in fact due to snow he has not had this for over a month,he has been living on cereals!!!!Generally I think parents are stuck between healthy eating/balanced diet,feeding their kids to much or in my case trying not to let the child fade away from not eating!!!!

[trekster]

I'm really sorry, but i think the reason they call it 'selective eating' if autism is involved is because any professional who doesn't make a distinction will be ignored.

 

Also, there is far more money to be made from publishing a book that justifies or normalises something like this than one that 'challenges' the person who wants to justify or normalise the behaviour. As I said (either in this thread or another) - the five professionals who tell a client what he doesn't want to hear will never be given the same kind of 'validity' that is afforded to the one who does tell the client what he wants to hear, regardless of the obvious flaw in that logic. Religions, political empires and all sorts of quackery and fakery have been sold by exploiting that basic human tendency...that's not going to be popular,

 

The gf/cf diet challenges selective eating in some circles, "cant eat wont eat" explains selective eating which im suspecting you havent read yet.

 

i don't think for one second you'd ever agree with me because I think you have a huge investement in autism being a justification for every negative in your life. Though i don't know you personally, so couldn't possibly say, I do know many people who after achieving a diagnosis have subsequently 'acquired' all sorts of behaviours, intolerances, disabling effects etc that have never previously been significant factors in their lives. Often that's ascribed, without any real sort of investigation, to that person 'coming to terms' with their autism, but personally I think it has as much to do with personal psychology as anything else, and, for my own part I tend to be more inspired by those whose dx becomes a positive factor within their lives - who use it to put the past into context and move forward rather than backwards.

You have just undone the apology for claiming that "autism is a justification for all my negatives in life". That's not true, since i dont say im in pain because im autistic or im pmt because im autistic (there might be some connection in that though). im just more accepting and aware of how autism affects me and others on this board than yourself. Who in their right mind calls themselves baddad then expects people to agree with them? Your user name prevents me from taking you seriously since i had a bullying baddad.

 

Who said i have moved backwards since my diagnosis? Since when is achieving 3 A levels, 1 diploma of higher education, securing a place on an autism course (on my dissertation now) and getting a supported living flat going backwards? Also i refused to try the gfcf diet when i was 1st diagnosed.

 

Actually we dont aquire these behaviours they just stand out more since parents and carers know what to look for. So they think of our obsessions as interests once they see they dont take over our lives. Or they understand why we've never understood certain sayings or had many friends or kept our jobs for longer than a week. Im actually a "emulating social behaviour type autistic" (with a bit of reactive depression thrown into the mix). Also associated conditions such as IBS can get worse following a diagnosis.

 

i dont feel your diagnosis (self or prescribed) has been a positive factor in your life. The username clearly states that.

 

I do think that a very small number of faddy (or selective, if you prefer)

i know that NTs are faddy and autistics are selective.

 

(snip)

 

'Myths' are easily built (and for the record, being female and verbal does not 'bust' any autism myths.

Actually it does in those that have only heard of male autistics who are unable to talk. i still bump into such people. Why do you think aspergers and girls was written? Also that autistic women tend to go undiagnosed longer than their male counterparts.

 

In a similar vein, it would be very easy, if i were diagnosed with autism, to say that my inability to eat all sorts of soft fruits - (melons, mangoes, things like that) without retching was an 'autistic hypersensitivity'. Without a diagnosis, it's just a slightly unusual quirk...

Once again, you've proved incredibly adept at understanding the complexities of the comments in my original post, so I'm sure you won't have any problem with any of the above.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

An apology doesnt come with "but im right" type approach or it isnt an apology.

 

If i understood the complexities of your comments then why reply with "im sorry but its true" type comments? If that was sarcasm at least label it clearly!

[bid]

Trekster, to be completely fair to BD, his user name isn't referring to his parenting skills at all!

 

If my memory is correct, I think it came from CDs? he made for /with his son and called 'Ben-And-Dad' Productions, which was extended to Baddad?

 

Bid

[Suze]

WHOA! , there , sorry but have to defend baddad,s sentiments , ................................

....................I definitely disagree with your belief /insinuisation that autism has been a negative in his life,

[Suze]

As an aside to my other post, my autistic son was and is a fussy eater, related to sensory problems he has....I believe.I myself had huge problems with food types and still do (I am not dx )I would and can still vomit if food or smells appear distasteful ( not funny at my age !!!) as a child my food problems were a big problem and during a field trip at school I ate virtually nothing for a week.Anyway I also have a daughter who eats anything thats put in front of her and a 7 yr old son who is by far the worst/ fussiest /faddy eater I have ever come across!...not autistic but definiteley sensory relateed for him.He gags at smells and gloopy foods and won,t eat in a room with smells.

 

 

so I don,t think faddy/fussy eating is an autistic exclusive it goes across the board into the neurotypical as does everything.

[baddad]

If my memory is correct, I think it came from CDs? he made for /with his son and called 'Ben-And-Dad' Productions, which was extended to Baddad?

 

Yes, 'baddad' does come from that, but I've not really got a problem with it if some people take it to be a declaration of some sort!

I said years ago on this forum that I think I AM a 'baddad' sometimes - believe me, I'm under no illusions about my capacity to get it wrong on occassion and I do (usually) put my hand up. But i'm pretty comfortable when I look at my son that I get it right more often than I get it wrong, which is why generally I tend not to get too upset or defensive when peeps misinterpret (which happens frequently).

With the best will in the world, trekster, I can't answer your last post without being 'specific', and given the position that you tend to take when you feel you're under attack (which, BTW you wouldn't be, but i think you - and possibly others - would interpret you to be) that's not a place I want to go. So with that in mind i'll bow out of any further dialogue that isn't directly related to the OP's request for advice/support on her child's 'problematic' eating.

To clarify a couple of points though - I did not say you have moved backwards since your diagnosis. I was, in fact quite clear that I know absolutely nothing of your personal situation.

You also seem to have assumed I've declared some sort of diagnosis for myself

(self or prescribed),

which is actually not the case. In fact, whether I had a dx or not i certainlly would not generally declare it on the forum for the very simple reason that people would be likely to make assumptions about the things I say and why I might say them - which has happened anyway on many occassions, including this one! (There have also been some other quite amusing assumptions over the years, concerning my gender, sexuality, motives and even my 'true' identity, but - sorry to disappoint - the reality is i'm just a dad with a son and some strongly held convictions!)

So, those two points aside, I'll bow out for now.

 

L&P (as always)

 

BD

 

 

[Mandapanda]

hi

i have just tryed some boiled rice on george age 7 because i am trying realy slowly to get him to eat more food groups in his diet which at the mo is not good, it just upsets me so much he had one spoonfull which was great and he said he loved it then he started gaging i thought he was going to be sick, i feel so guilty when this happens because i no this will happen but i should keep trying shouldnt i ???? he has never had any veg real meat potatoes so far and i just worry, the only meat he has ever eaten is a burger yuk, but i feel just rotten when i beg him to try just one new thing. any ideas and do other people children gag when trying new food i no it is a lot to do with textures but i keep away from any i think he will hate he also only eats dry food no wet.

theresa

 

Hi tjw

 

How are you getting on with your 'long list' of foods your son will eat

 

Our eldest was a fussy eater. When he turned about 13 he had a growth spurt, got hungier and ate more different things. He had always eaten a little bit of each food group tho, so we didn't worry too much about him, and we took the decision not to make food times a battle (after trying and failing to make him eat stuff). One of his favourites when younger was mince, so I used to get all different types of meat minced.

 

Our youngest has been a very restricted eater right from weaning age. He even only had about half the amount of milk as a baby than our eldest did. He would not drink milk from a trainer cup and I did not want a toddler walking around with a bottle hanging out of his mouth, so he hasn't had milk since his 1st birthday when I stopped using bottles .

 

When he was 8 months old I went to health visitor as he would only eat choc pudding. They said "mix choc pudding with everything". I personally felt this was not the way to go so rightly or wrongly I carried on trying to get him to eat other things. It once took us 2 hours to get him to eat 1/2 a slice of carrot. "He'll eat when he's hungry" they say - my son went 4 days without eating anything, on more than one occasion, and at a very young age!

 

He used to gag and choke on bread when weaning. We found he could manage scotch pancakes, and over the years have gone thru all bread type things, scones, muffins, rolls, pitta breads, toast. He currently, age 13, eats cheese on crackers (Cheese Melts), pizza and pizza-style garlic bread, roast chicken, roast potatoes, yorkshire puds, raw carrot, peas, he's just started eating burgers in a roll (chicken or beef), and yes he eats crisps, biscuits and choc. He knows he needs to eat more healthily and he asks to try things occasionally now. In our son's case he needs to feel in control of himself, it does not make him feel more secure if he feels we are dictating what he does. Educating him about healthy eating and him coming to the realisation himself that he needs to eat more healthily appears to us to have been a more mature way (for him) of approaching the situation.

 

I have had a doctor look me in the eye and say "Well if you bought fruit and vegetables and had them in the house and he saw you eating them, he would". I obviously look like some slob who lives on takeaways .

 

We found involving our youngest in food prep made him worse. Seeing me preparing food, handling it, etc (even tho I had washed my hands in front of him) was disconcerting for him. He worried about soap and germs getting on the food. When he knew food grew in the ground, in DIRT, it made him feel disgusted!! So be very careful if your child is concerned about germs etc.

[trekster]

Trekster, to be completely fair to BD, his user name isn't referring to his parenting skills at all!

 

If my memory is correct, I think it came from CDs? he made for /with his son and called 'Ben-And-Dad' Productions, which was extended to Baddad?

 

Bid

 

Ah ok i stand corrected, apologies to BD

[trekster]

As an aside to my other post, my autistic son was and is a fussy eater, related to sensory problems he has....I believe.I myself had huge problems with food types and still do (I am not dx )I would and can still vomit if food or smells appear distasteful ( not funny at my age !!!) as a child my food problems were a big problem and during a field trip at school I ate virtually nothing for a week.Anyway I also have a daughter who eats anything thats put in front of her and a 7 yr old son who is by far the worst/ fussiest /faddy eater I have ever come across!...not autistic but definiteley sensory relateed for him.He gags at smells and gloopy foods and won,t eat in a room with smells.

 

 

so I don,t think faddy/fussy eating is an autistic exclusive it goes across the board into the neurotypical as does everything.

 

The point im making is that the term is called "selective eating" when referring to autistics as calling it "fussy eating" has stubbornness or other negative associations with the term.

[trekster]

Yes, 'baddad' does come from that, but I've not really got a problem with it if some people take it to be a declaration of some sort!

I said years ago on this forum that I think I AM a 'baddad' sometimes - believe me, I'm under no illusions about my capacity to get it wrong on occassion and I do (usually) put my hand up. But i'm pretty comfortable when I look at my son that I get it right more often than I get it wrong, which is why generally I tend not to get too upset or defensive when peeps misinterpret (which happens frequently).

 

It was the avartar that lead me to the wrong conclusions.

With the best will in the world, trekster, I can't answer your last post without being 'specific', and given the position that you tend to take when you feel you're under attack (which, BTW you wouldn't be, but i think you - and possibly others - would interpret you to be) that's not a place I want to go. So with that in mind i'll bow out of any further dialogue that isn't directly related to the OP's request for advice/support on her child's 'problematic' eating.

 

It would depend on how you were specific as to my reaction.

To clarify a couple of points though - I did not say you have moved backwards since your diagnosis. I was, in fact quite clear that I know absolutely nothing of your personal situation.

 

it seemed to be implied that way from your reply to me.

You also seem to have assumed I've declared some sort of diagnosis for myself which is actually not the case.

 

No i haven't i just recognise autism is you that's all.

In fact, whether I had a dx or not i certainly would not generally declare it on the forum for the very simple reason that people would be likely to make assumptions about the things I say and why I might say them - which has happened anyway on many occasions, including this one! (There have also been some other quite amusing assumptions over the years, concerning my gender, sexuality, motives and even my 'true' identity, but - sorry to disappoint - the reality is i'm just a dad with a son and some strongly held convictions!)

So, those two points aside, I'll bow out for now.

 

L&P (as always)

 

BD

 

Others jumping to the wrong conclusions due to an autism diagnosis makes sense. i had a NAS worker imply i had no theory of mind at a recent AGM. i was livid as was a friend of mine who pointed out the situation later on. If that wasn't bad enough our local 'representative' (who wont ever represent me) was laughing at me being browbeaten by this man.

 

Alexis

 

[baddad]

No i haven't i just recognise autism is you that's all.

 

Alexis

 

Blimey!

I really had reached the point where I thought nothing on this forum could surprise me, so thank you for that!

Takes casual/remote diagnosis to a completely new level...

 

Anyhoooo... coming back to another point you made...

 

i had a NAS worker imply i had no theory of mind at a recent AGM. i was livid as was a friend of mine who pointed out the situation later on.

Doesn't surprise me at all... there are many MANY professionals out there who talk the talk but when push comes to shove are pretty poor as far as walking the walk goes. Several of our autistic members have been patronised in this way by professionals visitng these very boards. Not sure which I dislike most - professionals who pretend to be good advocates until they're put on the spot themselves or professionals who overcompensate in pursuit of fame, fortune and 'aspilebrity'. In the middle ground there are some good ones - and even the not so good ones can make some good calls - but sadly there are many tall poppies from both ends of the garden out there now in need of of some hefty trimming back

 

Right - with that I'm orf too see if my dx entitles me to DLA There's gold in them thar hill's, I'm told, and if I don't grab it some other beggar will!

 

L&P

 

BD

[Suze]

Trekster, the point,s you make about selective as opposed to faddy eating , strike me as on and the same thing.In own my families case anyhow, these eating problems I believe are related to a sensory problem as regards taste, smell and texture of food.Thats just my experience though.

[justine1]

Hi sorry to ressurect this post just as it was fading.

I just wanted to say that not all meals have to be eaten according to the "norm",for example if a child wants to eat rice at breakfast then cereal at dinner then do it.My 4 year old that has got most problems eating(not AS...yet) went through a stage of eating his main,hot meal at 12.00 when he came back from pre school I think he was so hungry that he would eat almost anything,unfortunatley when I moved last April he stopped doing so,this was crushing as it took me 6 months to get to that point and he was doing so well for four months!!So maybe try new food when they really hungry.

 

There was also an elderly lady in a nursing home where I worked,she would eat her dinner at 6.30am,have tea and biscuits at lunch and she would have breakfast at 9pm.Seemed strange but my friends and I suspected she may have worked nights and therefore she was "programmed" to eat this way.

 

I am starting it again though,he started afternoon pre-reception yesterday,so he finishes at 3.15pm,my plan is to feed him his dinner at 4pm.I am doing this as I have noticed he is very,very hungry on comng back.I will start tomorrow,and let you all know how it goes.

[tjw]

Hi tjw

 

How are you getting on with your 'long list' of foods your son will eat

 

Our eldest was a fussy eater. When he turned about 13 he had a growth spurt, got hungier and ate more different things. He had always eaten a little bit of each food group tho, so we didn't worry too much about him, and we took the decision not to make food times a battle (after trying and failing to make him eat stuff). One of his favourites when younger was mince, so I used to get all different types of meat minced.

 

Our youngest has been a very restricted eater right from weaning age. He even only had about half the amount of milk as a baby than our eldest did. He would not drink milk from a trainer cup and I did not want a toddler walking around with a bottle hanging out of his mouth, so he hasn't had milk since his 1st birthday when I stopped using bottles .

 

When he was 8 months old I went to health visitor as he would only eat choc pudding. They said "mix choc pudding with everything". I personally felt this was not the way to go so rightly or wrongly I carried on trying to get him to eat other things. It once took us 2 hours to get him to eat 1/2 a slice of carrot. "He'll eat when he's hungry" they say - my son went 4 days without eating anything, on more than one occasion, and at a very young age!

 

He used to gag and choke on bread when weaning. We found he could manage scotch pancakes, and over the years have gone thru all bread type things, scones, muffins, rolls, pitta breads, toast. He currently, age 13, eats cheese on crackers (Cheese Melts), pizza and pizza-style garlic bread, roast chicken, roast potatoes, yorkshire puds, raw carrot, peas, he's just started eating burgers in a roll (chicken or beef), and yes he eats crisps, biscuits and choc. He knows he needs to eat more healthily and he asks to try things occasionally now. In our son's case he needs to feel in control of himself, it does not make him feel more secure if he feels we are dictating what he does. Educating him about healthy eating and him coming to the realisation himself that he needs to eat more healthily appears to us to have been a more mature way (for him) of approaching the situation.

 

I have had a doctor look me in the eye and say "Well if you bought fruit and vegetables and had them in the house and he saw you eating them, he would". I obviously look like some slob who lives on takeaways .

 

We found involving our youngest in food prep made him worse. Seeing me preparing food, handling it, etc (even tho I had washed my hands in front of him) was disconcerting for him. He worried about soap and germs getting on the food. When he knew food grew in the ground, in DIRT, it made him feel disgusted!! So be very careful if your child is concerned about germs etc.

 

hi thanks for the replys just an update realy on what has happened over the last wk, well george is now on carrot sticks which is a great result he will also have apple bags but not the grapes and a banana i am so happy about these small changes he will only eat 3 carrot sticks a night but hay that is a 200% improvement, what i did was chill out about the whole eating thing i didnt give him a choice i just put these foods at the side of his plate and said if he was happy ro try them that is ok if not we can put them in the bin, the beans went in the bin asap but the above he tryed and like to a degree, but i explained that all food didnt have to taste great ok was ok we have also given him cards num 0 to 10 and he marks the food out of this which can be a bit confusing when he gives the food a mark of 100 million but it also makes us all laugh and brings a bit of fun to food times, all the advise on here has been realy helpfull and i would like to thank you all for this. i am now tyring to put these new foods into his packed lunch which has not change in 2yrs he takes dry toast and wosits with a yogurt and a biscuit but so far the carrot sticks have come home never mind i will keep putting these in and i am sure one day it will be an empty lunch box. i have involved george in food prep b4 and he is not happy about this due to dirty hands, he will now chop food for me as long as he dosent have to touch it so my mushrooms look like they have been slaughter haha but at least he is getting near food, he is not good with dirty hands i have the higene gel in place for him because his hands were getting sore from having water on them all the time always washing them so i dont push the dirty thing with him school was amazed this year because he did a finger painting but they did say he keeped washing his hands bless him thats my quick update for now but once again thanks for all the advise

cheers

theresa

[baddad]

Yah! small changes are what make big changes. In fact, it's easy when making small changes to overlook that there's a compound equation going on... 3, 4, 5, small changes add up to a major change and lay the foundations for other small changes that add up to major changes...

Well done to you and the kids If he gave that 100 million mark to a new and healthy food you must be c0ck-a-hoop (or maybe c0ck-a-leeky if it happened to be soup!?)

George and hand washing - a complete aside' but maybe you could apply some of the same thinking you're using with food to this? i.e. low key challenge and reward 'games' that involve touching new things (maybe a 'sensory box' could be drawn into it for hours of family fun?) with him knowing he can wash his hands afterwards etc. You can marry the two things together ('touch' and 'food' ) later on when he's got used to the idea of them individually.

Hope that lunchbox comes home empty soon, and you get some new favourites to add to the equation.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Kathryn]

Great news tjw, and well done! Hope the progress continues.

 

K x

[trekster]

Blimey!

I really had reached the point where I thought nothing on this forum could surprise me, so thank you for that!

Takes casual/remote diagnosis to a completely new level...

 

im just expressing my opinion as im not qualified to diagnose autism in anyone here. i do wonder how diagnosticians do becom qualified to diagnose autism i those they miss but thats another subject for another time.

Anyhoooo... coming back to another point you made...

 

 

Doesn't surprise me at all... there are many MANY professionals out there who talk the talk but when push comes to shove are pretty poor as far as walking the walk goes. Several of our autistic members have been patronised in this way by professionals visitng these very boards. Not sure which I dislike most - professionals who pretend to be good advocates until they're put on the spot themselves or professionals who overcompensate in pursuit of fame, fortune and 'aspilebrity'. In the middle ground there are some good ones - and even the not so good ones can make some good calls - but sadly there are many tall poppies from both ends of the garden out there now in need of of some hefty trimming back

 

Right - with that I'm orf too see if my dx entitles me to DLA There's gold in them thar hill's, I'm told, and if I don't grab it some other beggar will!

 

L&P

 

BD

 

You can get DLA without having a diagnosis if you can describe your condition well enough. Good luck in your new journey and thanks for your support on the professionals being not so autistic friendly front.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

Trekster, the point,s you make about selective as opposed to faddy eating , strike me as on and the same thing.In own my families case anyhow, these eating problems I believe are related to a sensory problem as regards taste, smell and texture of food.Thats just my experience though.

 

i dont think an NT would starve themselves if they couldnt have access to their desired foods though? Also to me SID is part of autism and also your kids could be part of the "broader autistic phenotype" ie have some traits but not enough for a diagnosis. i wrote a few pages on selective eating and why it was different in autism to NT kids. It was part of my final paper at university (literature review).

 

Alexis