some sen advice plz!

[darky]

i been into the school today, after trying to pin down a day when i could go in, talk to R teacher, and look at her work and find out if the recommendations that the various specalists have said i wanted to know if they are implemnting them. today when the teacher was off sick and it was cancelled again, i decided enough was enough i wanted to know and wanted to know now. so i agreed to see the class TA instead. she told me that R has settled on the concerta very well and is doing much better. they said shes got the knowlege and is matching her peers regarding her work, but needs supervision and lots of promptimg to stay on task for those things she does find challenging.she also struggles with numeracy. they said her writing is not cause for concern although her writing is very up and down and tends to vear off the more she does. she showed me some of her work in her literacy book and i was able to see 4 pages of work thats all.

the only thing thats upset me about it, i been watching R playing in the afternoons, and she plays alone, she fiddles with things down on the floor she might get up and run about but then back down on the floor again. on the recommendations of the speech and lan therapist, R is supposed to have a sympathetic adult to encourage her to interact with her peers during playtimes, and clearly this is not happening, there is one teacher there for aprox 100 kids. i asked the TA if the visual timetables and cue cards have been implemented or social stories used and she told me they havnt had time to do that yet and the senco asisstant is working on it. i asked about the recommendations of the physio and occy therapist were put in place from 9 months ago and she said no and then went on to ask me if i had some exercise sheets that they could do with her possibly!

she made it quite clear to me that R is not sen, but because of her attention difficulties and dx she is put on a lower ability table. thing is im really cross about this, R has social difficulties and really bad motor skills problems, i know this is not acedemic YET, but surley the school have some duty there? how long is it going to be before these things do effect her acedemic progress and self esteem,?? sats yr next yr

 

oh and shes also lost her sen TA that she had for 3 hours per week before.

[helenl53]

Hi Darky,

 

I wish I could help, but there are people on this forum with absolutely bags of experience.

 

The forum is exceptionally quiet tonite - if you look at some of the statistics you will see that.

 

Someone will come along and answer you.

 

In the meantime, as you know, I was in a similar situation myself and could not understand why professionals (Ed Psychs, OT's Speech & Language Therapists) could give advice and recommendations to the school and yet the school failed to put these into practice.

 

It was only when I found out that a recommendation was only that 'a recommendation' that I began to realise that this was a losing battle and that the only way to get the provision was to have a legally binding agreement to do so - the Statement.

 

Darky, you have a big battle - but I know you will get there - eventually!

 

Best wishes

 

Mrs G

[phasmid]

Helen has hit the nail on the head here. What you are working with are reccomendations. That said there is no real reason that these should not be followed - the TA has at least shown willing on this by asking for exercises. Get some and give them in - with a list of the reccomendations and ask what else they require from you to get these rolling!! Go for the guilt factor!

 

Before I can be of help I need to ask a few things; Has she got an IEP? What does it say? Have you seen it? Has it been reviewed at all? You say you have a DX - can I ask what it is? Sorry for all the questions but I have more advice I can give, but what it is does depend on diagnosis and IEP and so on.

[darky]

yes she has a diagnosis of pdd-nos with attentional difficulties. she does not have an "iep" as everychild at her school is supposed to be classed as an individual with needs and targets. i did manage to pin down the senco to a scrap of paper with her sen provision on, which at the time was 3 hours sen TA, 1 hour senco, and full time classed based TA- (which is standard for all the classes up til yr 4) i was informed yesterday that she dont even have her 3 hours sen TA now either. oh and by the way, i have no idea whether this was supposed to be a day, a week, a month or even a yr!

yes the TA did ask for the exercises which seems good, but i had a meeting and took the lady from pupil and parent partnership in January, the senco told me that she hadnt recieved the recommendations from the physio and occupational therapist, so i arranged for her to have a copy of them, i hand delivered the information to her the next day, and still nothing has been carried out. i had a conversation with the senco weeks before this and she told me she HAD recived them but hadnt had chance to look yet, but i still gave her a copy to give her the benifit of the doubt.

so given this situation, i dont really think we hold out much hope of these other recommendations being carried out either.

as far as i can make out, the only recommendation that has been carried out, is prompting her in order for her to stay on task, and breaking down instructions, giving one at a time so she understands.

[phasmid]

Just on the way out to work so will not be able to answer after this till later. I know a bit about PDD.

 

The lack of an IEP is bothering me. Are we talking state school here or private? If it is a state school their argument that:

 

everychild at her school is supposed to be classed as an individual with needs and targets.

 

is quite frankly a poor attempt to dodge their responsibilities! O.K, so no IEP (YET!), is she on 'school action' or 'school action +'? Have they in fact addressed any connected issues?

 

I'll get back to you.

[darky]

she is at a state school and supposed to be on school action plus, but have never had this confirmed. she has seen outside agencies physio, occuaptional therapist, speech and lang, educational physcologist. they all have recommended things for her, for her attention difficulties, her social skills and her exercises. i would also like to point out that on her tests for physio she has motor skills scored at just 1%

[annie]

Hi Darky,

 

The school sound like they are definately not meeting your daughter's needs. I would apply for a statement myself if I were you. You already have recommendations from outside agencies which will help you no end.

 

We were hoodwinked by our son's (ex) school that he would never be assessed for a statement, get the statement or be offered a place in their ASD unit. We got all three.

 

If you look on the IPSEA site ipsea it gives you examples of letters to write to your LEA. It can be pretty daunting going through the process sometimes but it is worth it in the end. IPSEA are very helpful if you need advice as well.

 

At least if you have a statement, what is written on there has to be carried out. If it is not then you have every right to do something about it.

 

Annie <'>

[lil_me]

http://www.parentpartnership.org.uk/

 

^^ Can help very much with SEN inculding advice on statements IEPs etc etc

[nellie]

Hi Darky and welcome to the forum,

 

I agree with Annie, I would contact IPSEA for advice and information.

 

Have a look at the resources section in education, you will find lots of information there.

 

Good luck!

 

Nellie xx

[phasmid]

Hi Darky,

 

Agree with other posters. What you have had to say in answer to my questions would lead me to say that the school are not addressing your daughters needs. You have, from what you say, been very patient with them. Now is the time to put your foot down and demand action from them.

 

You will need to write a letter to the LEA stating very clearly that; 'I (you) wish to have my daughter assessed for a Statement of Special Educational Needs' You must make a statement worded to this effect. They then have to go through a set procedure in order to respond to this. Your local Parent Partnership Service will be able to help you with this (PLEASE, don't be put off that PPS are set-up by the LEA, they are a legaly required level of support for parents. and ARE independent of the LEA, who just fund them).

 

It may not be an easy process, but I think you have little choice. In the meantime I would also suggest a letter to the school asking them to explain what support your daughter is currently in reciept of, the who's, what's when's and why's! Start asking questions. It ought to spur things along while you wait for the LEA response.

 

 

Just remember, you're NOT alone, others have been through similar experiences and will help. Keep us up to date, and good luck.

Edited June 10, 2005 by phasmid

[darky]

hi there phasmid, and everyone. thanks for your advice. i am going to write a letter to the head teacher saying that i am asuming that as they havnt put these recommendations into practice, that they unable to meet her needs so i am aplying to the lea for a statutory asessment. the same day i am going to write to the lea requesting a statutory asessment for a statement. i have already begun to list my daughters needs and all the recommendations from the third parties. i am going to also send in the paper work to back this up. thanks for all your help in this, but decided i have given the school long enough that now i really do need to take action for my daughters sake. then maybe just maybe they might lsten to me regarding my son also. time for a fight i reckon!

[phasmid]

Send in photocopies - keep all originals. Things get lost in the post!

[nellie]

Darky,

 

There is a danger the LEA will refuse the assessment if the school have not put the recommendations in practice. In other words they may say that the school have not tried to meet your child's needs. I still recommend speaking to IPSEA.

 

 

Nellie xx

[darky]

thanks for your advice nellie, i have been trying ipsea all week and havnt been able to get through. i will keep trying though next week.

[helenl53]

Hi Darky,

 

Nellie is the wise one - I would not be where I am today with J if it were not for taking the advice of Nellie.

 

My mum said to me recently that I can not eat an elephant in one bite.

 

Get your letter off to the Governors and SEN Governor and at least that puts them on notice that you have their cards marked. It also gives them the opportunity to put in writing whether or not they are able to fulfull the rcommendations.

 

Nelllie, this young lady has two children at the school that my son attended, so I am really understanding of her frustration. The school talk the talk but can not walk the walk. They also have the merit badge in making parents feel totally inadequate.

 

Darky, we are dealing with people who eat mums like us for breakfast. We are passionate. IPSEA and NAS are objective and wipe the floor with these people.

 

Get your letters off - that puts everything on record. Wait for IPSEA - when I get back from Brum, I will ring you. I got very frustrated at not getting a call within five minutes of ringing - we are from the same mould. It is worth the wait. I mentioned IPSEA to someone in the LEA who said I would have to wait until Autumn for info - guess what - info will be with me on Monday!!!! I will forward that to you - it is amazing how mentioning IPSEA or NAS puts these people on n the back foot.

 

Darky - we have to be like dripping taps.

 

Speak to you on Sunday or Monday - but keep listening to the good advice on this forum - everyone has been there and got the straightjacket - but there are so many success stories.

 

Love and fuzzies

 

Mrs G <'> <'> <'>

[phasmid]

Nellie is spot on, I missed that point, apologies.

 

If the school have not exhausted all options at School Action then support should move on to School Action +, then, and only then will most LEAs even think about the statementing process.

 

In your case, as nellie so rightly says, they could easily claim that 'all options' at SA and SA+ have NOT yet been tried. Therefore they could use this as a way of avoiding the statementing process. That said, going ahead with the request will show the school that you mean business. It might give them the kick up the rear they need to get things in place.

[Helen]

Hello Darky and welcome to the forum,

 

Having being in a similar situation, I know exactly how furious you must be feeling at this point in time.

 

...and after having been in a similar situation, maybe I can show you another perspective?

 

If I were in your position I'm not sure that I would immediately request a statutory assessment - I would want to have the whole facts in front of me before making the request. I'm suggesting that you contact your LEA and ask to see your daughter's SEN file, you don't have to give a reason for wanting to access this information - just make the request. From the information that you have given us, it sounds as if your daughter was on the SEN stage School Action+, information within your daughter's SEN school file ought to correspond with the information within her LEA SEN file. I'm suggesting that you scrutinise your daughter's LEA SEN file for an insight as to how the school had proposed to deal with your daughter's difficulties when it had initially made the request to your LEA for funding to support your daughter. The school would have had to produce some evidence to warrant funding from your LEA. Having access to your daughter's LEA SEN file would put you in a stronger position - you would be able to photocopy the contents of your daughter's LEA SEN file; you could probably use some of this information to your advantage later on as part of your 'parental advice' within your request for a statutory assessement, e.g. the type of support/intervention that had previously been outlined for your daughter as compared to what she has actually received.

 

If you decide to go down this route, then don't mention your intentions to the school as it would only give the school ample time to ?doctor? your daughter's SEN file and by that I mean that the school could within a short amount of time write up a few IEPs with certain targets saying that on each (imaginary)IEP review the targets had been met, hence no further intervention or investigation was necessary. This is how my son's first headteacher managed to 'doctor' my son's SEN school file when I found out by accident that my son had been put on the SEN register - the headteacher had been misplacing the SEN funding...

 

You need to bear in mind that not every school has regard for the document, The SEN Code Of Practice, some schools do not follow the COP?s procedure for addressing a child?s SEN. This form of 'bad practice' does exist, it hinders the parent?s task when making a request for a statutory assessment.

 

When you have all the facts before you, you?d be in a better position to request a statutory assessment.

 

Good luck.

Edited June 11, 2005 by Helen

[Helen]

If you want to access your daughter's SEN file then this link will give you some information:

 

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-rights/c...rds/index.shtml

[Helen]

Darky,

 

Did the school obtain the 3 hour SEN TA support each week due to a separate issue, or was this level of support due to the school applying to your LEA for funding to implement the recommendations of the various specialists? If you're not sure of the answer then this is something that you should be able to find out from within your daughter's LEA SEN file. The reason why I asked the question is, if the school received the 3 hours support for the purpose of implementing the recommendations (which you have said the school has failed to do), then I would imagine that you?d have grounds to complain (?) to the school?s governing body.

 

As taken from the Education Act 1996:

 

317. - (1) The governing body, in the case of a county, voluntary or grant-maintained school, and the local education authority, in the case of a maintained nursery school, shall-

(a) use their best endeavours, in exercising their functions in relation to the school, to secure that, if any registered pupil has special educational needs, the special educational provision which his learning difficulty calls for is made,

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/96056-ba.htm

[darky]

hi guys i cant thank you enough! listening to all your advice im sat here gobsmacked literaly.

i was told once that R was on school action plus due to the fact there was outside agencies involved, i dont know how true this is, i havnt got a clue. as for the 3 hours sen TA a week i have no clue as to what they were actualy doing with her in that time, or if indeed she actualy got that or not. when i asked last they said that because of the nature of R difficulties, they were trying to withdraw as much of the sen as possible as R has a tendancy to be clingy and reliant. they said its important for her to be independant and working with her peers as often as possible. when i asked the other day her TA said that she occasionaly will go with the sen TA when she has nothing better to do.

i know now what i have to do roughly, but one thing is for certain, im not going to let them get away with the clear breaches of the sen code of practice that the schools senco harps on about!! the senco has a great gift, she is able to talk and talk but dance arround the issues, i think she realises what im like, but im going to show her im no-bodys fool and wont be trodden on when it comes to my kids education. i really need to pin down the FACTS!!

[phasmid]

All IEPs are 'supposed' to be cc'd to parents. If the school has one in place they can say what they like of it, BUT, and it is a big BUT, if the parents haven't agreed to the content of the IEP it is a piece of paper with some lines on it. I have had my son's changed on more than one occasion. I can see Helen's point about the school trying to change them so, you need to pre-empt this.

 

Because there is doubt over your daughters IEP and it's content ask for a copy first thing Monday morning, tell them you'll wait whilst they photocopy the current version.They cannot refuse to supply you with this document. You are entitiled to a copy. I would also suggest asking for a copy of the schools own SEN policy. This should contain details of who is supposed to be doing what. Again, they cannot refuse to supply them. They are entitiled to make a charge to cover the cost of copying (5p a sheet is the norm) so take some change! The other place to look is your LEAs website. Have a trawl through there SEN policies as well. Do not let the school fob you off with any excuses. They should have sent you a copy of the IEP in the first place.

 

As well as IPSEA get in touch with Parent Partnership - they can help too.

[darky]

hi phasmid, this is the point, the school do not provide "iep's" i asked and was turned down with them saying that no child is given one. they have a "talbot book" with aims and targets in, i asked the other day if i could see it and was refused.and told it was not availble at that time. the TA explained what it was but brushed it under the carpet and also i was informed my child was no longer teqnically sen as she is matching her peers in most areas. with the help of pupil and parent partnership i was given a scrap of paper with her sen on and some small targets, i was not informed of the needs and targets nor what provision she had, this was not an iep, the senco made that perfectly clear and stateted quite firmly that they did not HAVE to provide one either.

no matter what i do, no matter how much i keep on, they are not forthcomming with any information, i really am at the stage where i have no clue as to how my daughter is doing acedemicaly. i am just merly expected to accept that she is fine. these recomendations from the outside agencys are treated just like that "recommendations" and they do not have to follow them. the school have made that clear also.

at the momment i feel like im keeping my end of the bargain, im sending my daughter to school medicated so shes compliant, i recieve all the backlash at home when its wearing off. ive sought the medical proffesion and kept up with all the recommendations at home, thus making school life better for her and them.

i know i am going to have to go to the lea to find out exactly what they are or not doing.

i feel really hacked off that after im doing all i can for a better life at school for my child, why cant they do the same?

[phasmid]

OK. Do you have a copy of the SEN Code OF PRactice? (if not it is available on line via www.dfes.gov.uk) Look at end of chapter 2 Roles and responsibilities of schools. They are required to publish a specific SEN policy document (if they have a website it may be available on-line) This document should explain, clearly, their SEN policy. They are required to have one. It is not an 'option' it is a legal requirement. Hopefully, from this you can see what has or has not been done (according to THEIR policy) in suppoprting your daughter. IPSEA and PP will be best placed to advise you as to whether they have fulfilled their policy in your daughters case.

 

Clearly they have been keeping some sort of record with this 'Talbot book'. You are entitiled to see this. You may have to mutter something about the 'Freedom of Information Act' to get it, but you can get it. Again they cannot deny you access to it. Ask them where it is, when can you have a copy etc. There should be nothing to hide here. If they have followed their own policy what reason would they have to deny you access to this...and if they say you can't have it ask them exactly that question.

 

Before going I would put into your mobile the number for the LEA SEN support team, PP etc. If they do refuse access, stand there in front of them and make the call to the LEA and complain. A parent I advised to do this recently heard them take the LEA call whilst on the phone to PP. The documents suddenly became available! Show them you mean business and they soon realise that it is better to have you on baord with them.

 

HTH