How many LSAs?

[Pippin]

Hi all, I havent been around for a while but feel able to pop my head back over the parapet again...Waves!

 

A quick Q for those of you with kiddies in mainstream. P is in year 8 now and the school have changed to a 2 week timetable, which he is just about coping with. I was getting confused as to who his LSAs were this year (he had 4 different ones last year at any one time). The school have sent me a list of who he has, and when....He has 11 (yes, ELEVEN) different LSAs this year over each fortnight period. No wonder the poor sod is confused.

 

Would you be just a tad miffed with this?

 

We have a review in 2 weeks and I'm going in with guns blazing! Am I over-reacting?

 

Pippin (waves again!)

[justine1]

Hi

 

I don't know the reasons why he has had so many LSA's I am sure there must be valid reasons.However I too would be annoyed by this and can understand your gripe.Sam had an LSA for 4 mths before being moved to an ASD unit,but he had the same LSA the whole time! Saying this when she was'nt going to be there,like when she went on holiday for 2 weeks, I was asked if I want to keep him home.I opted to do this as I was not working at the time and he had no statement so thought it reasonable.

 

I know Sam would never cope if they changed four times!! Hope its resolved x

[flappyfish]

I would think that consistency is key. I think two is the magic number. If you have just one and they are ill or leave, then there are inevitable consequences. If you have two, there is consistency and also the LSAs can compare notes, put their heads together and come up with effective strategies that one alone may not have come up with. 11 seems too many to be in any way consistent. I would take the 'velvet bulldozer approach' and ask 'innocently' if 11 LSAs is the right amount, giving reasons why you think less would be better. I always drop in lots of phrases about being very grateful for all they are doing (which I genuinely am, but I think it needs saying), that it's wonderful that he has support, that I'm not trying to tell them what to do, but wanting things to go well for my child and his peers/teachers. I also say things like 'of course, I may have got this compleyely wrong'as I know that I don't always get the most accurate information from my son. But I would be firm about querying the thinking behind 11 LSAs. Doesn't sound helpful to me.

[caci]

It sounds to me like they are claiming to supply an LSA for each subject.

 

If your son does need academic help then this might be why they are doing it (supplying someone experienced in each subject area)

 

BUT.......

 

Firstly I doubt many of the LSA's are actually experts in their subject and secondly, is it academic support you son needs, or is it help with planning, organising, moving from A to B etc ?

 

Which ever way you look at it, 11 is a huge number, and would completely defeat the object of providing any kind of continuity for him.

[Sally44]

Does he have a Statement and what does that say?

What the provision is and how it is provided is supposed to meet the need.

If it isn't, then you need to have that included in the Statement.

Obviously the whole point of the school doing it like they do is to try to be as economical and flexible as possible. But flexibility is supposed to be to benefit the child and not the system (see IPSEA website).

 

If this is making it more confusing for him and he is unable to access the help and support he needs then it is not working. It is like thrashing around in the water and not moving forward. It is appearing to meet needs, when they are not.

 

Although there is a point that only one person is not 'generalising skills'. If the child needs a dedicated keyworker all the time until they learn that skill and then it is explicitly taught and generalised to another person and into another environment then that is good. But it has to be done like that.

 

I too have got to speak with my sons school because he has no idea who his TA is. He cannot remember names and he struggles to recognise people. If your son is the same, then maybe a symbol on the TA (a badge of somesort), might help him more. Or the TA should be proactive and should check he understands, or go over the topic, or the question etc so that she knows he knows what he has to do. If he needs to do this at the beginning or end of the lesson etc then it can be done then. As said before, any flexibility is supposed to help the child.

[JsMum]

Hi Pippin welcome againx

 

The school have sent me a list of who he has, and when....He has 11 (yes, ELEVEN) different LSAs this year over each fortnight period.

 

My own son has had this problem with mulitpul LSAs and it left J who is in yr 9, angry, distressed and very uncoperative with his list of LSAs, he had around 4 to 5, he ripped his list up and cried, he was so upset especially as the previous year he had a fantastic LSA where it was just him and her and so this new list just made the loss of the previous LSA more distressing for J, if your getting confused, imagine how confused your son is.

 

I think it is disgusting, and how can it be meeting his needs, we all know all different LSAs have different ways of working with a student, but one with impaired social and communication difficulties then its even more detremental.

 

I would defo write a complaint and express that you want the LSA to be consistant and as few changes made as possible, if his statement isnt specified how his LSAs is delivered request this be changed too in occordance to your sons needs.

 

I have complained so if you did complain about your son having 11 different LSAs you wouldnt be the only parent out there who has.

 

JsMumx

Edited January 4, 2011 by JsMum

[bid]

Hi all, I havent been around for a while but feel able to pop my head back over the parapet again...Waves!

 

A quick Q for those of you with kiddies in mainstream. P is in year 8 now and the school have changed to a 2 week timetable, which he is just about coping with. I was getting confused as to who his LSAs were this year (he had 4 different ones last year at any one time). The school have sent me a list of who he has, and when....He has 11 (yes, ELEVEN) different LSAs this year over each fortnight period. No wonder the poor sod is confused.

 

Would you be just a tad miffed with this?

 

We have a review in 2 weeks and I'm going in with guns blazing! Am I over-reacting?

 

Pippin (waves again!)

 

I'm assuming this is a mainstream secondary? I wonder if this is because the LSAs are attached to the teachers, rather than your son IYKWIM? I know this is done in my DH's school, although as a special school the staff/pupil numbers are very small and the LSAs know all the children.

 

Rather than 'guns blazing' I would first of all ask them to clarify this situation, and then I would have prepared sources to back up why it's detrimental to your son with ASD to have 11 different LSAs over the timetable.

 

Good luck!

 

Bid

Edited January 4, 2011 by bid

[av16]

Hi, my son had a similar problem when he started mainstream secondary (nowhere near 11 though!)and as previous posters have said the LSAs are attached to departments. It just didn't work for my DS as he had trouble recognising them. He got into a very bad way and I spoke to the school (many times!) and with the support of CAMHS and the outreach support teacher I got the school to allocate no more than 2 LSAs to him.

He is now in yr 9 and I can't say things are perfect but he is a lot happier and has a good relationship with the main LSA. A senior member of staff did say to me though 'are you really expecting us to change the way the whole school does things?'; I said 'yes because it is a reasonable adjustment' but in a very calm reasonable way .

 

Good luck with this as it is often the key in getting a more positive experience at school. If you have any other professionals who can support you, try to get them on board too.

[Pippin]

Hi all, I replied yesterday but it doesnt seem to be here.

 

Thanks for all the advice...especially about keeping calm. I'm writing up a reply for his annual review in a couple of weeks so will try to put it in there so that all the officials see it in writing. I can certainly identify with some of your replies, especially about him not recognisisng his LSAs. I'll post back when the meeting has happened

 

thanks

[Sally44]

If anyone says that "we cannot change the whole system just for your child", then you remind them of reasonable adjustments under the DDA. Or if they talk about a "need for flexibility" you remind them that case law says that any flexibility should be for the benefit of the child and not the system (see IPSEA website). Or, if they really cannot make changes, ask them to put in writing that the school can no longer meet your child's needs. This would allow you to seek another placement that could. Due to funding issues, it is very unlikely that a mainstream school would write such a letter as a special school or independent school would cost the LEA much more money.

Always try to involve the professionals that know your son to back up the difficulties your child is having.

[bettyhen]

Most schools only have attached TAs for core subjects. We had a brilliant TA in the English Department and she was very skilled at getting children to contribute rather than just doing the work for them because she understood why the children were being asked to do things and didn't muddle output with achievement (English is a very process-driven subject). If we got a substitute TA it was often better to send the TA away (especially if she was a 'shouter') rather than have someone mess up the delicate relationships that had been set up in the classroom. I imagine a good maths TA is similarly experienced but I don't know. I suppose what I'm saying is that 11 TAs are clearly wrong BUT one or two lousy TAs could be worse because they could make your child feel wholly inadequate and if you have a couple of good TAs it would be best to keep them whilst shelving the others. You need to make sure that whoever is with your child has the skills to be able to work with someone with ASD. A one day course run but the SENCo would, in my opinion, be insufficient.

 

Is your child able to convey to you what these TAs are like? Could you score them on kindness, ability to explain things etc and then go in with an idea of who you want to be the main TAs?

[Pippin]

Hi Bettyhen, P cant tell one LSA from another really. We'd never have known there were so many if we hadnt asked for a list. I think my main concern is how effective they can be if they only see him once in a blue moon rather than how he reacts to them. I think I'm quite relieved to hear others AREN'T in the same boat so I have more ammunition.

 

Pippin

[Pippin]

Just a quick note to fill you in on progress. We sent in our views that the number of LSAs was too high and that he needed more literacy support. The review was this morning and the SENCO (who was chairing it) dived straight in with his new timetable.... LSAs down from 11 to 5 ! and a promise to concentrate on his writing skills and refer him for more OT input. Fingers crossed, buit it sounds like a result!

[av16]

Good - well done