Dyspraxia and ASD

[Sally44]

My son has had motor co-ordination problems all his life. The OT acknowleged this, but never diagnosed dyspraxia. I recently wrote a letter to her pushing her for some specific information about her input and his co-ordination difficulties. She has wrote back saying funding into Education ceases end March. And confirms he has dyspraxia.

 

I know that dyspraxia can also affect understanding of language and expressive language, sequencing of information etc, which are all things my son struggles with.

 

I am seeing a private OT at the moment. She says that although having a dual diagnosis is relevent for some children, that actually a child should not get both diagnosis as being diagnosed with one supposedly rules out a possible diagnosis of the other.

 

There does appear to be some cross over between the two diagnosis, but I can see that my son has both. I know there are other parents on this forum with dual diagnosis. What are your thoughts.

[smiley1590]

i have A.S and dyspraxia. i was officially diagnosed with Clumsy child Syndrome ( dyspraxia) i had years of O.T at junior's school and P.T too yeah can be common to have both conditions as very closely related just like dyslexia , ADHD etc tend to overlap and also be seperate i disagree that one of the diagnosis out rules another as i feel even though they really alike i feel that sometimes it isn't the A.S it some else there and other way round!!! that's just my opinion but i can see dyspraxia diagnosis by professionals being scrapped as so similiar! but i feel it is useful to have both there as some don't fit into the other!

 

XKLXX

[jollypig]

my DD has both dx , they initially werent going to dx asd as they didnt see the point but i explained that although because she is in a special school it wont affect them it meant i can access out of school activities/support for her.she goes to a chat n chill youth club once a week that without a dx she would have been unable to attend.

[bid]

With my son, it was expressed in his final diagnostic report as a dx of AS, with co-morbids of ADHD and Dyspraxia. This was from the specialist diagnostic centre for childhood disabilities, so we always went with that.

 

Bid

[Mumble]

It's interesting. My dx report says ASD with comorbid of dyspraxia (+++). I always assumed this meant (I think a reasonable assumption) that I have ASD and dyspraxia. However, I recently had to get the GP to complete a form for me with my diagnoses and she refused to write dyspraxia because medically is doesn't count as a full dx????? I've done some research and it turns out this is valid, however everyone who works with me including specialist disability advisers say I do have dyspraxia and treat me as if I do, and because they won't have the medical comeback my GP may have, they're happy to write it on any documentation for me. Mad, huh? I've been told that if I want a medically validated rubber stamped dx (everyone knows I'd come out as dyspraxic) I have to pay £450 to have it diagnosed separately from the ASD.

[Sally44]

It seems strange to me, I would have thought that as all these co-morbids have similar causes that alot of cross over would be expected and that you cannot really pigeon hole each diagnosis as being totally separate from the next.

 

The CAHMS Psychiatrist was the first to "name the elephant in the room", she said he has co-ordination difficulties consistant with dyspraxia falling under the umbrella of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder. And once she said that, and I pushed the NHS OT about it, she finally confirmed dyspraxia.

 

My son is now being assessed by a private OT to identify his needs for his Statement.

[bid]

It seems strange to me, I would have thought that as all these co-morbids have similar causes that alot of cross over would be expected and that you cannot really pigeon hole each diagnosis as being totally separate from the next.

 

The CAHMS Psychiatrist was the first to "name the elephant in the room", she said he has co-ordination difficulties consistant with dyspraxia falling under the umbrella of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder. And once she said that, and I pushed the NHS OT about it, she finally confirmed dyspraxia.

 

My son is now being assessed by a private OT to identify his needs for his Statement.

 

The way my son's consultant described it was that although co-ordination problems are often part of AS, his were severe enough to warrant a separate dx, and the same with ADHD.

 

BTW, it's perfectly possible to have Dyspraxia or ADHD and not be on the autistic spectrum.

 

Bid

Edited February 26, 2011 by bid

[RainbowsButterflies]

BTW, it's perfectly possible to have Dyspraxia or ADHD and not be on the autistic spectrum.

 

 

Is the converse true - can you have AS and have no coordination or attention/concentration issues? If this is the case, then the separate diagnosis is warranted. If not then is it helpful? (This is me pondering as someone diagnosed as an adult, not regards to a statement of SEN)

[Mumble]

Is the converse true - can you have AS and have no coordination or attention/concentration issues?

Absolutely. They are not, in and of themselves, part of the diagnostic criteria, although I suppose you could read things like 'absorption in one activity' as an attention issue if the one activity you're absorbed in isn't what the teacher wants you to do!!

 

I think the point Bid is making in part (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that dyspraxia, ADD, ADHD, dyslexia in and of themselves are not on the autistic spectrum even though some people will insist they are.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

My son has AS and was fairly recently diagnosed with dyspraxia and dysgraphia. I was expecting dysgraphia, but the dyspraxia was a bit of a shock. I pushed professionals to look into the possibility of dysgraphia and it seems to me that it very much boils down to the professionals personal opinion/s. Where school is concerned, I believe individual issues need to be spelt out as this means kiddo has a better chance of receiving specific support for specific needs. R is also being assessed for a 3rd time by CAMHS (at the request of CAMHS) for ADD. The more I'm finding out about it, I wouldn't be surprised if ADD is added to the list. Again, I've encountered a professional whose basically saying that if R has ADD he won't formally diagnose it as he sees AS as the main issue and doesn't want to take anything away from that. I had a rather frank exchange on my feelings on that (perhaps why R is being assessed for a third time!!!). Whilst it can be difficult to distinguish what's part and parcel of an ASD, I personally feel if there is a comorbid disorder, it should be labelled, though I must say that as the diagnoses list is lengthening, it's a horrible feeling. I guess my feeling is that it's more for the sake of ensuring school support. I do think it boils down to personal opinion though. There's various DSM criteria, and if you can google it.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

[MarieM]

I've had an interesting few weeks about my son. He had a new ed psych assessment a few weeks ago and she told me she thought he was on the spectrum. I was a bit confused as he's 16 and I've been told for years that he has both Dyspraxia and ASD. It turns out that he has never officially been diagnosed as ASD by a paediatrician, just its a probability. I have spoken to the school doctor who is referring him for a diagnosis. The thing is he also has learning difficulties and she said it is really hard to diagnose someone as having ASD if they have learning difficulties. She thinks he might just have a "Dyspraxic brain"! Still confused!!!

[Suze]

My son was dx with dyspraxia before he was dx with AS, he has 2 seperate dx,s .The OT was the one who highlighted the autism.

[bid]

My son was dx with dyspraxia before he was dx with AS, he has 2 seperate dx,s .

 

Same here.

 

Bid

[Sally44]

Hi

 

My son has AS and was fairly recently diagnosed with dyspraxia and dysgraphia. I was expecting dysgraphia, but the dyspraxia was a bit of a shock. I pushed professionals to look into the possibility of dysgraphia and it seems to me that it very much boils down to the professionals personal opinion/s. Where school is concerned, I believe individual issues need to be spelt out as this means kiddo has a better chance of receiving specific support for specific needs. R is also being assessed for a 3rd time by CAMHS (at the request of CAMHS) for ADD. The more I'm finding out about it, I wouldn't be surprised if ADD is added to the list. Again, I've encountered a professional whose basically saying that if R has ADD he won't formally diagnose it as he sees AS as the main issue and doesn't want to take anything away from that. I had a rather frank exchange on my feelings on that (perhaps why R is being assessed for a third time!!!). Whilst it can be difficult to distinguish what's part and parcel of an ASD, I personally feel if there is a comorbid disorder, it should be labelled, though I must say that as the diagnoses list is lengthening, it's a horrible feeling. I guess my feeling is that it's more for the sake of ensuring school support. I do think it boils down to personal opinion though. There's various DSM criteria, and if you can google it.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

 

 

I totally understand how you feel as the length of diagnoses grows longer and longer. I felt that everyone was pushing to get the first diagnosis of an ASD and it was me that was reluctant because I felt guilty of getting this 'label' for my child who was totally unaware of what was going on and whether he even wanted a diagnosis. Any other diagnosis after that was hard to get, or suddenly thrust upon us. I just felt that as the Statement is supposed to be for "complex needs" that if putting a name to it helped, then put the name to it. And although I was not seeking a diagnosis of dyspraxia, it was CAHMS that pointed out to me how the criteria for dyspraxia maybe playing a part in some of his current difficulties and leading to low self esteem. But it isn't easy.

[Sally44]

I've had an interesting few weeks about my son. He had a new ed psych assessment a few weeks ago and she told me she thought he was on the spectrum. I was a bit confused as he's 16 and I've been told for years that he has both Dyspraxia and ASD. It turns out that he has never officially been diagnosed as ASD by a paediatrician, just its a probability. I have spoken to the school doctor who is referring him for a diagnosis. The thing is he also has learning difficulties and she said it is really hard to diagnose someone as having ASD if they have learning difficulties. She thinks he might just have a "Dyspraxic brain"! Still confused!!!

 

 

I too have been told for years that it is difficult to assess a child with an ASD for specific learning difficulties etc. There is the increased chance that a child with an ASD also has general low, or lower cognitive ability. There is also the increased chance that the child has a specific learning difficulty. The difference is that a child with moderate learning difficulties (ie. a global general across the board lower cognitive ability) maybe easier to place from a school placement point of view because LEAs do have MLD schools. But what is harder is to find a suitable placement for the more capable child that has one or a number of SpLD who is not coping in a mainstream school and who does not fit the criteria for a MLD school.

 

But there are assesssments, which my son has completed, which have proved that he is average cognitive ability. That explains why he has the self awareness and frustration at not being able to do the things that his peers can do and why he is so bored doing the same repetitive work day after day that is just not sinking in.

 

You need an Educational Psychologist to carry out a whole range of assessments to determine what his cognitive ability is and what his areas of weakness and strength are. And you have to go into those assessments ready to accept that they may say your child does have a globally lower cognitive ability. But even that would be information in itself that you could use to help you decide on the kind of school you think your child needs.

 

But it is very hard to get an LEA EP to carry out those kinds of assessments. So you may have to go private. I'll PM you.

[Athena]

DD has a dual diagnosis of ASD and Developmental Co-ordination Disorder, which is another name for dyspraxia. She also has speech and language disorder, which is separate from her communication difficulties associated with her ASD.

ASD and dsypraxia are often diagnosed together; there is some debate that dyspraxia is somewhere on the ASD spectrum itself.

Oh, yes, DD also has a Spld diagnosed. This diagnosis was obtained privately; LEA would not assess because of DD's ASD!

Makes me feel rather depressed when I stop and list all her problems......

[Sally44]

I know, the list just grows longer every year.

We've just been told that education will have no OT input from end March. So if it isn't in the Statement, the child won't get it.

[Sally44]

DD has a dual diagnosis of ASD and Developmental Co-ordination Disorder, which is another name for dyspraxia. She also has speech and language disorder, which is separate from her communication difficulties associated with her ASD.

ASD and dsypraxia are often diagnosed together; there is some debate that dyspraxia is somewhere on the ASD spectrum itself.

Oh, yes, DD also has a Spld diagnosed. This diagnosis was obtained privately; LEA would not assess because of DD's ASD!

Makes me feel rather depressed when I stop and list all her problems......

 

Do you get any specialist teaching for SpLD? If so how much, and did the LEA buy in the specialist teacher?

[Athena]

Yes, DD has specialist teaching for her Spld at school, but only because we took the LEA to Tribunal over the lack of specificity and support in her Statement and won!

Her school is small, so they have to bring in a specialist teacher.

[coolblue]

Just a comment about diagnosis. A number of developmental characteristics were originally just descriptive terms, including dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia and autism. A shorthand for characteristics that were sometimes quite tricky to describe. The reason why they were descriptive terms was because no one knew what caused them - although if a child had a known disorder, such as a chromosomal disorder or brain damage, it was generally thought likely that it was the known disorder that was the culprit.

 

We still don't know what causes them. The only thing that has changed is that because the DSM lists a set of characteristics for many syndromes, or groups of characteristics, it gives the impression that if some characteristics often occur together and have a label it means that we know there is a distinct disorder underlying the symptoms. We don't know that.

 

Although dyspraxia isn't listed as a disorder in the DSM it is another name for developmental co-ordination disorder and that is listed.

What's most likely is that the different labels are just different facets of the child's underlying disorder; so child A could have disorder A, which appears as dypraxia only, and child B disorder B that shows up as dypraxia and autism, and child C disorder C that shows up as dyspraxia, autism and ADHD.

 

Although I can see why it might be helpful to have a label for each facet of the child's developmental/learning difficulties, I also think it leads to a great deal of confusion when trying to work out what is causing an individual child's problems, and classifying many developmental disorders as 'mental' disorders is quite misleading when many children have a lot of physical symptoms that are almost invariably ignored in diagnosis, because they aren't listed in the DSM criteria.

 

Personally, although it was a relief to know that a paediatrician agreed that my son had a medical problem rather than a dysfunctional mother, my own son's 'diagnosis' has been a complete muddle and not ultimately at all helpful.

 

cb

[Karen A]

My son has had motor co-ordination problems all his life. The OT acknowleged this, but never diagnosed dyspraxia. I recently wrote a letter to her pushing her for some specific information about her input and his co-ordination difficulties. She has wrote back saying funding into Education ceases end March. And confirms he has dyspraxia.

 

I know that dyspraxia can also affect understanding of language and expressive language, sequencing of information etc, which are all things my son struggles with.

 

I am seeing a private OT at the moment. She says that although having a dual diagnosis is relevent for some children, that actually a child should not get both diagnosis as being diagnosed with one supposedly rules out a possible diagnosis of the other.

 

There does appear to be some cross over between the two diagnosis, but I can see that my son has both. I know there are other parents on this forum with dual diagnosis. What are your thoughts.

 

 

Hi.

Ben has a dual diagnosis.He was diagnosed with dyspraxia first.When he obtained an AS diagnosis several years later they could not remove the dyspraxia diagnosis.I think there is a lot of overlap between the two.

 

Karen.