GREEN PAPER - CHANGES TO SEN SYSTEM

[NickyB]

Hello all

 

The green paper on SEN ('Support and Aspiration') is available now from the dfes website : www.dfes.gov.uk

I'm just about to start reading it but it is 134 pages long, so I may be some time

 

Nicky <'>

[Karen A]

Hi.

I have not been around for months but popped by to post a link having just read the summary.You are obviously ahead of me.Happy reading. <'>

Karen.

[JsMum]

I sure am, but it wont effect J as he will have left the educational system, but he will require social care support.

 

The proposals is they scrap statements altogether and have a assessment.xxxx

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12677259

 

 

JsMumx

[Kathryn]

I haven't had time to peruse it yet!

 

I've merged the two threads already begun on this, and given the thread a new title - thanks for posting the link Nicky - and JsMum too.

 

No doublt there will be lots to discuss: it would be helpful(and tidier!) if people could confine their comments to this thread rather than starting new ones.

 

Thanks

 

K x

Edited March 9, 2011 by Kathryn

[Bluesbreaker]

I'll chip into this.

 

Read the news story on it, instead of many pages of the report

 

Basically, I think its a pretty bad situation. We are scrapping individual tailored statements for one big overall assessment. Surely this is making the situation worse regarding the individual support required for each individual?

 

Also my main criticism is, again, the government has failed to explain and set guidelines as to What SEN covers. I think the bracket is far too widely used, even kids on the Alternative curriculum (i mean like rough kids who have to go school but are real pain in the necks...) are classified under the SEN label and support, which to me, is unessesary by all costs. Another Joke about it is the 'Gifted and Talented' stuff, cause that comes out of the SEN budget too, which to me, Is unessesary, However, Govt. would say they do that for the specialised lessons to cope with their 'advanced intelligence' to me, i still think its draining the SEn budget for those who really need it.

 

I know my points are fragmented... but still...

 

In the Daily mail today (date for reference is 09/3/11) there was an article on the issue and it says, that it is planned that there will be a reclassification of what the SEN bracket covers. (thanks to my mum for this! and my gran for the newspaper!) the govt. is saying that all children, students, with a diagnosis will be classified as SEN, However, it is then down to the local authorities to give out SEN statements, and as we know, that in itself is the big challenge as they haven't been giving out statements. If the government enforces regualtions to make them give the statements out then thats most of the issue solved, If this isn't done then it is just a CON-LIB cost cutting measure (which is what I am expecting to be the case, following all other reforms of similar natures)

[KezT]

I heard thy are loking for a 50% reduction in numbers of children classified as SEN

 

Nothing to do with who does/does not require the help, it all just comes down to numbers (read cuts)!

 

I'm totally baffled by the single assessment idea - by whom? and how can an assessment carried out at 3yrs old have any validity at 17 years old?

 

I agree there is scope for modification to make the systemless adversarial - let's be honest, we have AL had to fight to get what was needed on this forum! But I doubt that is really what the change is about....

[RainbowsButterflies]

Gifted & talented doesn't come out of the SEN budget

And those children who are twice exceptional (G&T & ASD) don't get anything at all because the school don't have enough resources to identify them properly (can anyone tell this is a teeny sore point?)

[Kathryn]

I think there is a lot here which is good in principle but the devil will of course be in the detail if and when this stuff makes it into a Bill. I like the idea of a holistic assessment of a child's needs - the continual wrangling over what constitutes "educational" and "non educational" need is ridiculous. All the services need to work together better. Also it proposes more continuity between pre and post 16 education, which would be an improvement on the current set up.

 

But any whittling away of the legal entitlement to SEN provision would be bad news, and unless there is better training for teachers in mainstream schools, and access to a wider range of schools in every LEA, from mainstream to units to special schools, it's going to be the same old same old, with parents going to Tribunal (thank God they're not scrapping that!) to fight for expensive out of county provision. Oh - and with one extra stressful hurdle in the way - compulsory mediation.

 

Cynical, moi?

 

K x

[Sally44]

I'm not quite sure how a single assessment will work.

Mine, and many others, difficulty is in getting professionals to identify every need, and then to quantify and specify provision. That won't change with a single assessment if it is the same people assessing who specify provision within their budgets rather than to meet the need of the child.

And my biggest worry is that they will take away the legally binding aspect of the Statement. Without that there is no point even having an assessment.

Will parents still have the right to appeal to SEND?

[Grace]

'My concern is that they will use complaints about the current system to justify getting rid of statements and putting in a supposed simpler, quicker system'

 

This is what I said when I heard about the Green Paper and I wrote in to them and said it too i.e. the statementing process might be bad, but at least you can battle at tribunal. Yes, they are keeping tribunals (wonder if it will be delayed by mediation?) BUT tribunals will only be good if you still have the same legal rights to challenge the new document.

 

With the whole thing changing, what you can challenge, how you can challenge it etc will change too.

 

I read a quote from an LA in the Green Paper, saying the system is unfair, because articulate parents who understand the system get more help i.e. those that can fight them. If they gave children what they NEEDED parents would not have to fight and if they did not ignore the Code of Practice and break the law, parents would not have to be 'educated' enough to be able to fight back. It is is not that 'articulate' parents get more than they need, but that some parents do not know how to fight for their children and get taken advantage of - totally wrong.

 

Mind you, LA's have daily practise at laying the blame for their faults at the parents' door, so I should not be surprised. Has anyone ever had an LA freely apologise?!

 

I've had a look around on the Internet and a lot of people are worried that this is just an excuse to cut costs.

 

Grace/x

[Karen A]

I read a quote from an LA in the Green Paper, saying the system is unfair, because articulate parents who understand the system get more help i.e. those that can fight them. If they gave children what they NEEDED parents would not have to fight and if they did not ignore the Code of Practice and break the law, parents would not have to be 'educated' enough to be able to fight back. It is is not that 'articulate' parents get more than they need, but that some parents do not know how to fight for their children and get taken advantage of - totally wrong

 

I have only read the summary this far.However there is a suggestion that parents may be given money to enable them to decide what care and support they think would most help their child [A personalised budget].Key workers will be trained to help them decide what the priorities are across health,social care and education.This system would challenge me ....an educated individual with experience in health and education who has English as a first language.It will hence be more difficult for those who do not understand the system or are not articulate than it is now.

 

http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/g/green%20paper%20presentation.pdf

 

This link might be useful for anyone wanting an easy read summary of the main points who does not feel the need to wade through pages and pages of blurb....

Edited March 10, 2011 by Karen A

[NickyB]

I think there is lots of positive stuff in the Green Paper but it does depend on the details and how the proposals are actually implemented in practise. It does say in the Paper that the Government will be consulting with LA's and health professionals etc. about how things will actually be done. Let's hope they actually listen to those who will have to implement these changes.

 

I like the idea of the 'Education and Care Plan' which will be replacing Statements, as it will bring together all the person's needs in one document, from early years to adulthood. There is most certainly a need for people to be properly supported once they leave education - something which doesn't work too well right now. There is a need, though, for regular reviews, as people's needs change so much throughout their lives - I couldn't find any mention of this in the Paper.

 

It does say in the Paper that the new Plans will 'provide the same statutory protection to parents as the statement of SEN and will include a commitment from all parties to provide their services', so as long as this bit makes it into the final Bill, then the contents of the Plan will still be binding.

 

I also really hope they deliver on the promise of less bureaucracy, as I do seem to have given the same information over and over again on many different documents over the last couple of years.

 

One thing that doesn't add up for me is their promise to end the bias toward mainstream education, and give parents greater choice in the type of school they can choose for their child. But there is no explanation as to where these alternative school places are going to come from, apart from the offer to allow people to start their own 'free' schools. I cannot see any commitment to making more specialist school places available, and I really don't think there will be enough people opening 'free' schools to make up the shortfall. Parental choice is wonderful in principle but means nothing if the services are just not there.

 

Overall I think there's lots to be positive about, though.

 

Nicky x

[Grace]

Somewhere else on the Internet, a person went through a theoretical personal budget. It showed how, even when given a substantial amount of funding, how quickly it would get eaten up, if you had to pay for each service yourself. It is a little like the academy situation in that, small schools can turn to the LA for help for a variety of situations, but if they were an academy, they'd have to find the money for each service themselves - not practical when you are a small school with a small budget.

 

And that does not even begin to address the administration of it all - for 'articulate' parents it might involve time they simply do not have, but for others, the paperwork alone would be a nightmare.

 

I have been to tribunal twice and having spoken to other parents who have been, a core problem is the lack of special school places; I don't see that being addressed at all.

 

They might say we will get the same legal protection, but it will be difficult to compare like with like - if you change the format, i.e. Parts 2,3 and 4, half of educational law refers to them; if they change it, will it be equal to what we have now?

 

There are sufficient phrases in there, especially regarding parents running schools that are going to be closed, to show they still don't get the problem. That makes me wonder if they really care about the problem at all and are just worried about the cost of it all. Anyone who has been to tribunal will tell you it is not an easy option, but I think most will say it is the first time they feel they have been listened to. Any watering down of this will be injustice indeed.

[Karen A]

One thing that doesn't add up for me is their promise to end the bias toward mainstream education, and give parents greater choice in the type of school they can choose for their child. But there is no explanation as to where these alternative school places are going to come from, apart from the offer to allow people to start their own 'free' schools. I cannot see any commitment to making more specialist school places available, and I really don't think there will be enough people opening 'free' schools to make up the shortfall. Parental choice is wonderful in principle but means nothing if the services are just not there

 

Ah but don't you know we will all be rushing to set up free schools whilst returning to work until age 65 or over and becoming managers of delegated budgets for our own children.

After all who wouldn't want to run a school for children with SEN with their demanding difficult parents as a hobby......don't all shout at once.

[Athena]

Quote from Sarah Teather regarding placements in independent schools:

 

Sarah Teather (Minister of State (Children and Families), Education; Brent Central, Liberal Democrat)

 

"We recognise that local authorities throughout the country are having to make difficult decisions, just as the Government are. However, money is not always well spent at the moment. For example, much money is wasted on the adversarial system, with parents unnecessarily going through tribunals. There is often a real push to get expensive independent provision that can be a drain on local authorities' resources when, if we could get some of the necessary health care delivered earlier, parents would not necessarily push to go all the way to the expense of independent provision. A lot more can be done to spend the money that we have better."

 

I am worried that the mediation mentioned in the Green Paper will be binding, and deny parents access to the SENDIST Tribunal.

I am worried about many aspects of the Green Paper, but still haven't read it all yet!

[GaryS]

I've resisted until now to say that I think there is a lot that is very worrying in this Green Paper.

 

Opposition view

 

There are some very good concepts and some very eloquent ideas but little in the way of substance and no mention how the good bits are to be implemented or what protection the current provisions will have. If I wanted to get really political there are clear indications that it is a stealth strategy to privatise the whole process (but poorly executed).

 

 

 

Net effects should this become law..

• 
   
  
• No more Statements of SEN
  
• One assessment for all
  
• Compulsory personal budgets
  
• Remove School Action and School Action Plus
  
• Retrain (?remove) Ed Psych
  
• Reduce number of provisions
  

 

Some of the most worrying aspect if if this is taken with the new Education White Paper where Academies are being championed and under the SEN Green Paper, these Academies will no longer be obligated by or to LA to provide "SEN" service. So they could buy in the service or simply not provide one. This would inevitably lead to elitism and LA's finding it difficult to justify the cost of their own provision.

 

FYI Take a look at what we think of the White Paper here & bring your comments back.