scratching himself

[kerrie]

hi, im having afew problems with my boy ryan. hes never liked being told off, teased that sort of thing but recently when he gets told off hes started punishing himself, for example scratching his face or walking into things, that type of thing. ive asked him why he does this and he says because he has been naughty so he deserves it. ive had words with him about this and told him it is wrong to do this and i give the punishment not himself. he gets really upset when being told off, and he is so sorry he is practically heartbroken because he has been naughty, and to be honest hes not doing anything that bad. i am a little concerned about this but i dont know if im over reacting, do all kids go through this?

[smiley1590]

i sometimes get like this myself end up hurting myself when made a mistake or done something bad i punish myself for this so can relate to your son sounds like he has low self esteem issues ...

 

XKLX

[kerrie]

thankyou for your reply, i really appreciate it. the thing you said about doing this when you make a mistake, he does that, he goes crazy when he makes a mistake and he is very clumsy and whenever he drops anything or is being clumsy in any way he is calling himself stupid. if he cant get his own way he is walking into things. it is getting a little to regular recently. may i ask if you have any suggestions of which way is best to go about it. is it best to discipline him for doing it, or is it just a phase.

[Dijac]

Hi Kerrie,

 

My son (12) does this a lot too - he has a bit of exzema, but scrathes himself madly when he is stressed, or sometimes hits himself on the head when he says something stupid. He has low self esteeme too. As for how to stop this, I just try to ignore him - I just tell him that hitting himself won't help, and walk away. Sometimes the lack of attention helps, sometimes not. Unfortunately, I have no better advice than that.

[kerrie]

thankyou, and i appreciate any advice i can take. at the moment when he does it really bad then ive told him that if e does do this then i will be taking a toy off him, he is totally obsessed with toys, so im hoping to hit him where it hurts, any small episodes i will try ignoring him. i find it really worrying that he is doing this at such a young age, im hoping it is just a phase that e will grow out of. he seems toatally stressed out all the time, for such a young child.

[darkshine]

The youngest age I can remember doing things like this to myself was 14 (I may have done it earlier but I cannot recall right now - but I can remember also being heartbroken when I got things wrong from a much younger age) I used to punish myself for getting things wrong, I used to think I deserved it, I used to feel really guilty and that because of that I should be punished - and took it upon myself to do this. My parents did not notice. I am such a perfectionist in some ways - so much so that I actually can't do certain things I want to do because of the fear of doing it wrong.

 

This is what I would do.

 

Explain that he can't always do everything right all of the time - it is impossible

 

Tell him that we learn by making mistakes - if we didn't make mistakes we wouldn't learn how not to.

 

Tell him that you love him even when he messes up real bad and that if he feels the need to punish himself - to do it in non harmful ways - because the harmful ways are punishing you as well as him - he can give up his favourite toy for a day, or write a sorry note, or any other ingenious idea you can think of

 

Explain that once something has happened where he has been naughty that once he has made up for this (whether by apology or trying harder or sanction - that the event is then over - this is really important - he has to let it go)

 

Explain to him that when he does things wrong that he can undo it by learning how to do it right or making up for it in other ways - like being helpful or tidy or doing well at something else or by being nice.

 

Explain that you do not expect him to be perfect but acknowledge how pleased you are when he tries.

 

The fact that he knows he has done wrong is a good thing, it means he is a good kid, cuz if he didn't realise he wouldn't ever learn.

 

I'm not sure if this will help you or not - I've just listed the things I would have liked to hear my parents say to me. Oh - and if they had - they would have had to say them about a thousand times before I'd have believed them anyway!

 

Best

 

Darkshine

[smiley1590]

i don't think disclipline is needed for this situation would you say your son's depressed? i thin darkshine is right when it is AS perfection try to be all time which causes frustration and pressure when you mess up screw up things as feel like let everyone down and can't do anything 'right'! does your son get any support,help? have you been docs to discuss this situation?

 

XKLX

[oxgirl]

Hi kerrie, my lad is a perfectionist as well and used to find being told off, even very mildly, heartbreaking. I would suggest taking every opportunity to praise your son for the things he does well and pointing out every positive to him that you can think of throughout the day.

 

Also, I found it really helped my son when I demonstrated to him that I made mistakes myself and by making light of them and talking about the mistakes I made, it made it easier for him to accept his own imperfections. My lad is nearly 18 now and he still likes to hear about things that I find difficult or problems I had as a child or still have, it makes him feel more able to accept that none of us are perfect, including himself.

 

For him, humour works best, so I'd make a joke of mistakes and laugh at myself. If I drop a jar or something, instead of getting upset, i'd exagerate it, exclaiming "whoopsie!" loudly and make a joke of it, this way he started to find mistakes and mishaps a lot less scary. If I had gotten cross or angry, then it would have made it a lot worse for him when he made a mistake of his own. Now he is able to laugh at himself too, so if he is clumsy and I joke and call him a "big whally", he'll laugh and won't take it too seriously. Hope that makes sense.

 

~ Mel ~

[smiley1590]

Ox Girl - i totally agree with what you have put above with your advice!!! my parents do the same make a joke out mistakes find humour is best way dealing/managing situation makes me feel 'easier' 'lighter load' off my shoulders!

 

XKLX

[kerrie]

thankyou all for your help and advice, what you saying really does sound like the best way to go, oxgirl your advise sounds perfect and exactly right, so thankyou and i will def be following your advise.

ryan has no diagnosis at all, we not even seeing a doctor of any sort with him, i just seem to have alot of problems with him about certain stuff. this is the main one at the minute, another month and it will be something else that is the main concern.

[oxgirl]

Glad to help.

 

i just seem to have alot of problems with him about certain stuff. this is the main one at the minute, another month and it will be something else that is the main concern.

 

Yes, I remember this very well with my own lad. It does get easier though.

 

~ Mel ~

[kerrie]

The youngest age I can remember doing things like this to myself was 14 (I may have done it earlier but I cannot recall right now - but I can remember also being heartbroken when I got things wrong from a much younger age) I used to punish myself for getting things wrong, I used to think I deserved it, I used to feel really guilty and that because of that I should be punished - and took it upon myself to do this. My parents did not notice. I am such a perfectionist in some ways - so much so that I actually can't do certain things I want to do because of the fear of doing it wrong.

 

This is what I would do.

 

Explain that he can't always do everything right all of the time - it is impossible

 

Tell him that we learn by making mistakes - if we didn't make mistakes we wouldn't learn how not to.

 

Tell him that you love him even when he messes up real bad and that if he feels the need to punish himself - to do it in non harmful ways - because the harmful ways are punishing you as well as him - he can give up his favourite toy for a day, or write a sorry note, or any other ingenious idea you can think of

 

Explain that once something has happened where he has been naughty that once he has made up for this (whether by apology or trying harder or sanction - that the event is then over - this is really important - he has to let it go)

 

Explain to him that when he does things wrong that he can undo it by learning how to do it right or making up for it in other ways - like being helpful or tidy or doing well at something else or by being nice.

 

Explain that you do not expect him to be perfect but acknowledge how pleased you are when he tries.

 

The fact that he knows he has done wrong is a good thing, it means he is a good kid, cuz if he didn't realise he wouldn't ever learn.

 

I'm not sure if this will help you or not - I've just listed the things I would have liked to hear my parents say to me. Oh - and if they had - they would have had to say them about a thousand times before I'd have believed them anyway!

 

Best

 

Darkshine

[RainbowsButterflies]

My youngest hits and bites himself when he gets frustrated, and has done for about 6 months - it's very unsettling to see a toddler doing...

[RainbowsButterflies]

.

Edited October 18, 2011 by RainbowsButterflies

[kerrie]

just want to say thankyou for taking the time to reply. your advise is good and have taken this all on, have had a few words with him and im trying to prevent it before it happens. im trying to show him other ways of calming down, things have improved from last week as i am keeping a eye on it at all times. x

Edited October 19, 2011 by kerrie

[Sally44]

what age is Ryan?

And you say you don't have a diagnosis? Are you in the process of getting one?

 

My son used to be exactly the same. He used to get angry and hurt himself if he was told off, or did something wrong. Then when he had calmed down he would get distraught at what he had done/said.

 

This type of behaviour has continued, and we have found it has got worse. What I would say it is an indication of is a child that is aware and very self aware. He may develop problems with self confidence and self esteem. He maybe a perfectionist. He maybe trying very hard to do things right which could be putting alot of pressure on him to be continually trying to work out and do the right thing.

 

He sounds very emotionally labile, which can lead to depression etc.

 

He needs some work on emotional literacy in himself and others.

 

He needs to learn some self calming techniques.

 

You must give him lots of praise for things he does right and is good at. You could try keeping a book of things he has done well etc.

 

For emotions you can use social stories. ClinPsych also advised us to make a scrap book of his facial emotions and link them to the things that cause them. Starting with a happy smilely face and pictures of things that make him happy.

 

I was told that Tony Attwood at bought out a good book about emotions. I haven't seen it yet though.

 

Although most children with an ASD may carry out these behaviours, there are degrees of it. My son has been quite ill as a direct result of this way of thinking and punishing himself. He hasn't been in school for a long time and we've recently received a diagnosis of an Anxiety Disorder, and he now has a number of tics and OCD behaviours.

 

If he responds very badly when being told off, is there another way of approaching the same issue. For example if he struggles to remember to do things, there is no point telling him off because he continues to have problems remembering. So rather than tell him off, remind him of the things he needs to do [using a verbal or picture list]. Don't automatically assume he can do stuff because he may not have the skills to do it.

 

Recently my son has been told off a number of times about obsessively filling the TV HD+ recorder with lots of his programmes, often repeating the recording of the same programme on different channels. Then whilst being told off he told us that the reason he records everything is because he can't read, [and that is true]. And his behaviour makes sense then. He records everything to be sure he records the programme he wants to watch. And eventhough we know he can't read, we still assumed he knew what he was doing with the recorder - so we should have understood that he doesn't really know what he is doing and therefore isn't doing it deliberately.

 

And the problem then is, he has too much stuff trying to record at the same time and so often the recordings are all part recorded. And that happens because he can't read the messages on the TV, and he can't tell the time. So we are working on these skills, rather than just telling him off everytime.

 

So now if there is something coming up that we want to record, we go through the recorder planner with him and delete the conflicting programmes, and we are hoping that going over this again and again will help him to recognise and read his favourite programmes and understand how not to record more than one thing at a time.

[kerrie]

hi, ryan is 7 and we have just recently been to see the school nurse and she is referring him to see a doctor of some sort, she hasnt said much. dont know if there is gonna be a diagnosis for ryan or if he just has afew issues. im sort of on the fence with it all at the min.

he is very emotional, and your writing sounded spot on. he has got a problem with confidence. he will do nothing unless he knows its allowed and its alright by everyone involoved, he only really speaks to the people he knows well at school and dont mix that well with kids he dont know to well. even more so at home. everything he does he needs to show me n tell me, half the time my life is like a constant show and tell class. but i think thats probably a low confidence issue.

i am starting to look at things abit differently, as in how we approach things with him, its just knowing how to deal with these things, obviously its quite disturbing when they do this sort of thing and it takes a while to get your head round it, thats why ive found myself on this site. you can get real advise from people who are either going through something similar or have been here themselves.

ryan just seems to have no tolerance of people, its like everyone annoys him within 5 mins. ive also seen that he needs to take revenge. ie if his sister does something to him or knocks something over, he will not let it go untill he has done something back to her. obviously this is causing alot of problems because i cant let him break her stuff, throw them around or hurt her etc.

he seems to be fine at school, no problems whatsoever.

[Sally44]

You may need to explicitly show and tell him what to do if his sister does move his things. Things being moved can be a real issue for those on the spectrum because they like things to be the same, same order, same place etc. So he will get very upset about it. But hitting or breaking your daughter's things is just escalating it.

How old is your daughter? Why is she breaking his stuff?

You can use something called a social story to explain these types of situations and what he should do or say. But again, you really need someone like a speech therapist, EP or specialist teacher to give you advice on how to put them together, because they do need to be done in a certain way.

In the meantime tell him that revenge is not the way to behave (especially if it is a younger child). But if your daughter is older, then talk to her as well, because siblings can often deliberately wind eachother up.

Do they have separate bedrooms?

Don't have time at the moment to post more about this, but i'm sure others will.

[kerrie]

thanks, yeah his sister is 4 and to be honest shes not doing that much to him he has just got no toleration of her, i think sometimes she can deliberately wind him up for a reaction because half of the time its the only way she gets any attention from him. there is times where they play nice together or do something together and she loves it. she isnt breaking his stuff just if she gets in the way of his beloved toys mostly, or reacts to something that he does or say to her, just normal kids stuff, little things like singing next to him, talking to him to much or at the wrong time where as 9 times out of 10, every time is the wrong time.