Noise (and levels of annoyance)

[robert7111a]

Hello all

 

The issue of noise rages on in society and certainly for me, there is more noise than ever before and background noise just seems to be getting louder. My washing machine beeps when the cycle has finished, there are various audible warning systems in the car, people chat (and shout) on their mobile phones in public/on public transport etc, there are forever annoying announcements every 10sec or so which deprives one of a good forty winks when travelling on a train...the list goes on.

 

I know noise bothers some people to a degree but what is it about AS that makes people even more hypersensitive to noise? I intend to do a non-scientific study on this but may do a more scientific study later on when I get my head back into studying mode

[darkshine]

I just feel more sensitive to it - more aware - cuz when I've discussed it with people - friends, family - they seem largely unaware.

 

It may be to do with hearing - but I don't fully think so because I know a couple of people whose hearing is as sharp as mine and they don't notice the daily things like I do.

 

If it is hearing, then maybe it's do to with the way the frequencies and tones are interpreted in the mind.

 

Every day I have to put up with traffic going past my house - which is as annoying to me as it is to people in a car when I wind the window down past 40 miles per hour and it starts rushing and drumming in the window - the faster you go past 40 the louder it gets - I can ignore that noise (because I get travel sick and that over-rides the volume and irritation of the noise to me) but it really ###### everyone else in the car right off

 

And people don't seem to notice slight things like light bulbs or the older tv's whining.

 

So maybe it's like a super awareness that is connected to some level of self-preservation or something - cuz let's face it - if we all lived in places that weren't human populated then the hearing abilities would be a super advantage for survival - so maybe it's that instinct on a stronger level - like a super instinct or something.

[A-S warrior]

i can relate to this, the sound of pepole on the train eating monster munch is a sound that makes me want to become a killer. staff at the supermarkets unpacking and stacking the shelves really fast with all the squeeking of the packets and booming of the stuff hitting the shelf, makes me feel like giving the guy a wedgie, throwing him into one of the trollyes and wheeling him into traffic, then the sound of traffic will get under my skin, so then i want to shoot at the traffic. but then the sound of the gun will anoy me so....... yeah its endless really.

[LancsLad]

I am very sensitive to noises and this morning had possibly the worse noise experience of my life.

 

I had my MRI scan and even with ear defenders on it was really loud. There where four sections to the scan and each one something different was going on in the machine and so the noises and vibrations were different. For the first 10 minutes I just had to hang in there I had a squeezy thing in my hand to stop it all but knew I had to get throught it. By the third cycle I had settled down and got things back under control and think in the end I could have managed another half hour if I had to because I had tunned into it.

 

When I was getting changed after the event I did something I do not do normally I gave myself a little mental pat on the back and said 'you did ok there'. I had to wait for a minute or so to find out that the images were of a good enough standard to pass on to the consultant. If I they had said sorry we have to do that again I know I could have done it all over again. We get stronger by experiencing things in life and coming out of the other side relatively unscathed.

 

Today I found out I am a bit tougher than I thought I was, at least in respect to noise tollerance anyway.

 

Just a few thoughts

[robert7111a]

I find I am more sensitive to noise when I am stressed or tired. I think its more to do with the "annoyance factor" rather than its intensity. I have a very low threshold when it comes to this and it makes me more stressed etc. A perfect example is when a powerful loud motorcycle races past my house which can be heard a mile away. But repetitive low level noise can be very annoying such as train announcements, and I think LancsLad gave an example of light bulbs and the hum of refridgerators.

 

The ear can dampen loud noise to an extent but the mechanism is slow and inefficient. Some people seem to have a heightened state of alertness (constantly being switched on) where loud high level noise or repetitive low level noise is oppressive. I myself think that I am in a constant state of alertness (I can never switch off) and am therefore more affected by loud noise when stressed.

 

People can be very frightened at sudden, unexpected loud noises especially those with total unilateral hearing loss or other hearing problems and I am not including these as I know the reasons why.

 

But given normal normal hearing, I would like to know whether it is more to do with a low threshold of annoyance, whether people with AS have a natural propensity to hypersensitivity of loud sounds or whether there is an imbalance between the afferent and efferent portion of the auditory system.

 

And what low level (quiet) sounds do people find annoying?

[Special_talent123]

I have heightened senses to hearing, also hear noises others couldn't hear but I could

[indiscreet]

I can cope with most noise, even if it irritates me, but rap, the cash machines in Tesco and high-pitched screaming and shrieking make me, quite literally, want to kill.

[LancsLad]

I think I am a person Robert who has very good hearing, like Special-talent I could describe things I can hear and most other people can not hear, that is not about frequency but about noise levels. As such things at reasonable sound levels which are unexpected can startle me as such in some instances I am in a state of being constantly switched on. The worst scenario being and outdoor urban environment. I think this is simply a defense mechanism at play.

 

Whe I am in my house I can hear a lot of stuff on many layers and most of the time its there and I can cope. Things like a washing machine being on, the central heating, the ticking of a clock, the fan in the computer. I can be quite settled with these layers and then if a family member for example uses the toilet and flushes it a new layer is there and it rises to the surface such as the water filling up the cistern head. I am kind of aware of it and I think I try to blend it into the pattern. My next response is often that its stopped. I get this quite a lot that something is missing as much as something is new, the pump on the refrigerator turns off is something I would notice as much as it turning on.

 

If there is something which really anoys me is someone having the TV on downstairs, I find it very hard to filter out the TV. If its a constant sound such as dialouge say adult voices its not too bad I can more or less blend it in. If the pitches of the voices is varied for example kids and adults and there is no pattern in the sound it is harder still. The difficult thing is like now when my partner is watching a drama and background music is coming in and out of the TV.

 

I guess for me at the end of the day its about an inability to filter out noise and having to process it in my brain as much as it might be to do with good hearing. Some environments are simply a bit more draining than others.

[Mannify]

I was in my friend's garden when there was aeroplane noise. My son ( my middle one with Autism) said, " Two planes". Moments later two planes emerged from the clouds.

[LancsLad]

These things can be problematic at times but we have so understand there are advantages there as well. Love the 'two planes'.

 

A few years back we had a dog that in the late afternoon would lie and listen for my partner coming home, he would get up if he was with me in my office working and I would know the car was on the estate. I would try to beat him so tunned into the sound of the engine, and would laughg at him if he picked the wrong car. As he got older his hearing deteriorated and I could beat him. I think I can now pick out possibly a doozen cars of the people who live in our estate from the engine noises as they turn into the estate, we are the third block of houses in. A lot of it is to do with air quality and weather conditions. Sometimes I know my parneter is home and I will walk to the front of the house to check to realise she isn't even around the bend into our cul de sac yet thinking I have made a mistake only for her to appear..

 

When i was teaching I had a reputation about my hearing amongst the pupils. They knew they had to be carefull when I was taking cover lessons about what they were talking about. Often they simply had work to get on with that had been set and there was no issue talking as long as they were on task. The ones at the back of roooms thought that they could talk about anything, and sometimes they did, only for me to ask them to come to the front and I would have a quiet word and say change the subject please. They would be very shocked that I could hear them. I couldn't really tell them off because I knew the rules were somewhat bent in my favour.

[darkshine]

And what low level (quiet) sounds do people find annoying?

 

TV's in other rooms, clocks ticking, people breathing, the fan on my computer, someone's nose whistling, chewing or swallowing, people or animals scratching (especially on stubble or hair), the noise of people's clothes as they move, footsteps, the noise a pen or pencil makes on paper, when I was at school the marker pen on white board or chalk on blackboard, the pressing of mobile phone buttons, my eyes clicking as I blink when my eyes are dry, the alarm on my netbook when it's on sleep mode, the sound of skin touching skin, people licking their licks or slapping their mouths, the low murmur of conversation, a cold bottle of water clicking, some people's watches, the drip of a tap, the sound of the gas burners on certain levels where the gas hisses in a high pitched squeal, the sound of water slowly draining through the gap in the plug in the bath, the noise of the fishtank pump downstairs (its more annoying from a distance for some reason), and dogs whining at a frequency that other people claim to not hear. That's all I can think of right now

 

There are lots of mid and louder noises that also drive me insane - those things and the ones I have listed make me feel quite violent, so when other people have said they feel like they could kill someone, I totally get that, especially in certain environments!!!

Edited July 2, 2012 by darkshine

[LancsLad]

I had to laugh when I first saw John Bishop on TV doing his stand up and he described the agrivating sound of his missues breathing next him in bed at night how she just kept going on and on and on. I can get a bit like that but find ear plugs to be a slightly better solution than the kitchen knife, the pillow does feel tempting at times I must admit, at which points I tend to get up and go and play on the computer. The dogs used to get it from time to time. Now if he sees me getting up in the middle of the night he quickly gets out of the way just in case its him.

[matzoball]

Adam and I had just been out to a gig - he waited until we got in the car to go home and asked me if I could tell him what I thought of this annoying noise he had been 'working on'. I didn't think it would be that bad so said yes. The noise that came out of him hurt my ears so much that literally 2 seconds after he started - I punched him in the side of his face! I reacted on instinct and my instinct was to stop that noise. I still had sore ears for 2 days afterwards, and even talking or typing about it makes my eardrums ache!

 

Also crunching, huffing, and whistling hurt me - not enough to punch people but nearenough!

[robert7111a]

TV's in other rooms, clocks ticking, people breathing, the fan on my computer, someone's nose whistling, chewing or swallowing, people or animals scratching (especially on stubble or hair), the noise of people's clothes as they move, footsteps, the noise a pen or pencil makes on paper, when I was at school the marker pen on white board or chalk on blackboard, the pressing of mobile phone buttons, my eyes clicking as I blink when my eyes are dry, the alarm on my netbook when it's on sleep mode, the sound of skin touching skin, people licking their licks or slapping their mouths, the low murmur of conversation, a cold bottle of water clicking, some people's watches, the drip of a tap, the sound of the gas burners on certain levels where the gas hisses in a high pitched squeal, the sound of water slowly draining through the gap in the plug in the bath, the noise of the fishtank pump downstairs (its more annoying from a distance for some reason), and dogs whining at a frequency that other people claim to not hear. That's all I can think of right now

 

Cor Darkshine, no wonder you struggle to get out the door...!!

 

Clearly low level noise is a big problem - certainly an eye-opener for me

 

I am beginning to understand now the physiological basis for hypersensitivity to noise but will continue my non-scientific research as to whether this is more common in AS people

[LancsLad]

I think this is really interesting stuff Robert. I can understand a lot what Darkshine is saying here but somehow I am not sure if this is simply down to maturity or possibly a lot of exposure that I can more of less blend many of the sounds Darkshine talks about together and simply call it background noise, this sometimes takes a lot of effort but I can do it. As a result I wouldn't be surprised if our sensitivity might be very similar, guess i am talking about auditory mechanisms here I don't really understand, but at the next level I and others might be able to process these sounds in a better way to at least be able to manage their impact

 

The best way of explaining this is its similar to going out on my bike. I know the first 10 or 15 minutes I will feel a bit ###### untill my body settles into a rhythm. Because of experience I don't worry about this I do not even think how I am feeling untill I have got through a small market town some 5 miles down the road, its only then do I think in what shape am I in today. Auditory issues are a bit like this for me. If I have to go into town for example I simply don't try and focus on sounds too much, I know they are there and making me very uncomfortable but I also know I can get through 10 or 15 minutes of ###### and then see how I am have I settled down into the environment. To highlight what this is like for me one of the things I used to find very difficult was going to the libary at University. One of the problems was it would be a 20 minute walk along a main A road full of traffic but at the bottom of the hill I would be ok and had settled down. I would then walk into the libary and it was 'too quiet'. My senses had to completely re adjust as I was hearing things on a completely new level, things like coffe cups going onto saucers in the cafe area, people coughing, lift winding mechanisms. If I was dropping off books to then go out and face the main road was like starting all over again for me, as a result I was very reluctant to use the libary it was like having to go through tripple time, people would say but its really quiet in there and I would say no its not its just as bad in many ways but different.

 

Just a few more thoughts.

[robert7111a]

I think this is really interesting stuff Robert. I can understand a lot what Darkshine is saying here but somehow I am not sure if this is simply down to maturity or possibly a lot of exposure that I can more of less blend many of the sounds Darkshine talks about together and simply call it background noise, this sometimes takes a lot of effort but I can do it.

 

When I found out I had AS through my research, I remembered reading literature about AS people "being wired differently" to NT people. From a neurological prospective, the auditory system is built with an inhibitory response which allows it to suppress or filter out background sounds. I am suspecting therefore that from a "wiring point of view", this inhibitory response isn't working (such as with Darkshine) meaning that just about every little sound causes a distraction.

 

I am really interested in what noise annoys people (as many have posted their pet hates) which will go towards giving me a better understanding of how the inhibitory system works and whether it is just a function of people with AS or not

[LancsLad]

Good stuff Robert the thing I kind of question is this; If we start off wired up differently then I can understand that the connection to an inhibitory response might not be naturally there. The question then is can we re wire ourselves, in other words make up alternative pathways through our brains to get to join up the same end points. If so then what would support the process? I kind of suspect exposure and simply trying to hang in there and trying to shut these noises out might be part of that process.

 

I think there is loads of scope to research into this. Importantly at what ages would taking actions work best. To simply play devils advocate, there might be young kids out there with AS who really can't stand certain noises and the natural response of parents might be to take them away from such exposure, it is possible that in the long run they are doing them more harm than good.

 

Just a few thought but this is the type of stuff the forum should be about in my mind at least, asking questions.

[robert7111a]

Good stuff Robert the thing I kind of question is this; If we start off wired up differently then I can understand that the connection to an inhibitory response might not be naturally there. The question then is can we re wire ourselves, in other words make up alternative pathways through our brains to get to join up the same end points. If so then what would support the process? I kind of suspect exposure and simply trying to hang in there and trying to shut these noises out might be part of that process.

 

LancsLad, if the physical connections aren't there or the wiring is different, then you cannot physically rewire yourself. The only way is to kind of make a detour around the "faulty wiring" and learn through something called TRT (tinnitus retraining therapy). This takes time (and commitment) and is based upon sound enrichment and controlled exposure. This "teaches" the brain to take a step back and "think" before diving in and "telling" the individual that the sound is annoying. Controlled and repeated exposure means the brain learns to adapt over time and focus more on what is important.

[LancsLad]

Thanks for the info Robert.

 

I would also be interested in research into the effect of certain anti-depressants on this in particlar SSRI's. I have been thinking through a lot of things recently about what i was like on anti-depressents and what was and am I like off them. If I am honest in this area regarding sensitivity to sounds I think I am better off without them but it wasn't something I was actively trying to monitor at the time.

[robert7111a]

Well more research is needed (and something else that is of interest to me) but SSRI's are generally mind-altering drugs when taken over a long period of time and who knows what they are doing to our neurons...

[darkshine]

LancsLad, if the physical connections aren't there or the wiring is different, then you cannot physically rewire yourself.

 

That isn't entirely accurate, there's something we all have that is really strong when we are children, it is called plasticity, this is the optimum time that the brain can adjust and make new connections, plasticity reduces as we get older, but we can still make new neural connections and synaptic pathways in our minds.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ptic_plasticity

 

On a different level I believe that we can condition ourselves - when LancsLad talked about blending sounds - I think that is possible but it is something I struggle with - however, I can mask sounds, or sounds can b[e masked, there's constant loud traffic outside my home from 5am it starts, it gets busier til dinner, quietens very slightly and then builds again until around 7/8pm. That traffic noise requires a constant tolerance from me but it does mask a lot of the household noises.

 

When I study, I use music in a similar way, to drown out the traffic, and every other noise.

 

I think that with exposure the tolerance can be increased, and blending could become easier, requiring less conscious effort at ignoring things.

 

Similarly, when I am truly focused, in the zone, so to speak, I can be almost deaf because my entire mind is in one place - I think that "skill" suggests that with practice and concentration, it could change, and over time become less of an effort and more natural.

 

And through memory and learning we could essentially "rewire" ourseves

 

Just to throw a different angle on things

Edited July 2, 2012 by darkshine

[robert7111a]

That isn't entirely accurate, there's something we all have that is really strong when we are children, it is called plasticity, this is the optimum time that the brain can adjust and make new connections, plasticity reduces as we get older, but we can still make new neural connections and synaptic pathways in our minds.

 

That's what I mean by "bypassing" the "faulty wiring" (or neurones) and retraining the brain to accept or filter out sounds perceived as annoying.

 

Sound therapy and exposure is everything!

[darkshine]

[titch-nan]

Hi everyone,

Robert thank you for starting this topic it has given me a new insight into my grandson's problems.

He is 13 and has severe autism.

He listens to the tv with the volume on 3 and thinks because I have it on 9 I am getting deaf. I cannot hear it on 3 even I am within 2 feet, he also has the xbox on at the same time and can hear them both.

He hears things I dont and gets annoyed when I say I didn't hear anything.

He is refusing to go to school because it is too noisy (among other things) he thinks teachers say stupid things to each other - I thought he was standing near them when he over hears but maybe he is hearing from a distance like LancsLad said about hearing what is said at the back of the classroom.

He hates going shopping or anywhere where there are a group of people especially if there are babies or toddlers present.

 

How can I convince other people about this without feeling that I am making excuses for him - told school (SN) but only reply I got was 'its the quietest class in school'.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

I have another question you might be able to help me with which is a bit of a conundrum.

 

My grandson listens to tv when volume is very low but when I ask him to speak quietly he tells me he isnt shouting, yet his voice is louder than when he tells me off for having the tv on loud. Does anyone know if we hear own voices differently than other outside noises?

 

Thanks.

[robert7111a]

My grandson listens to tv when volume is very low but when I ask him to speak quietly he tells me he isnt shouting, yet his voice is louder than when he tells me off for having the tv on loud. Does anyone know if we hear own voices differently than other outside noises?

 

Thanks.

Hi titch-nan. Thanks for your kind comments. It sounds like your son has extreme hypersensitivity to sounds. Has he ever had his hearing tested? This might be a good idea, because this can give away certain clues. I'm not quite sure whether I understand your conumdrum. Are you saying your grandson has a loud voice? And if so, does he think his voice isn't loud? I sometimes see severely autistic kids in and around my work and they are all very loud and "all over the place". People often talk louder when excited etc. Some people who are a bit deaf need to speak loudly in order to hear themselves but clearly your grandson isn't deaf so this bit isn't appropriate

[Mannify]

Ehs speaks loudly or whispers; there's no midrange voice. His big brother's the same.

[robert7111a]

Could be then, the "speaking loudly bit" is the autism talking when he's mad or excited - then the "speaking softly bit" is perhaps when he withdraws, feels self concious and doesn't like hearing his own voice. Just a thought?

[titch-nan]

Hi Robert

 

He did have his hearing tested at the hospital when he was younger but they only did a standard test I think over mid and lower tones, high pitch sounds tend to get him annoyed and they didnt want to test them in case he over reacted - does that make sense. Hearing was OK but I dont know if sensitivity was tested. I have only been caring for him for 2 years.

His voice is 'normal' when he gets up but increases in volume as the day progresses. At night it is very loud and I ask him to talk quieter as he is shouting he replies - I am not shouting and accuses me of shouting.

[robert7111a]

It is a good idea for sensitivity to be tested - especially at high(er) frequencies and then to measure the levels he finds uncomfortably loud. But this depends on whether he is able to sit still for 10mins and co-operate with the test.

 

It may be as the day progresses, he gets tired (and more stressed) and therefore the loudness goes up. In the morning after a good night's sleep, he is more rested and relaxed

[Mannify]

Could be then, the "speaking loudly bit" is the autism talking when he's mad or excited - then the "speaking softly bit" is perhaps when he withdraws, feels self concious and doesn't like hearing his own voice. Just a thought?

 

Yesterday, Ehs's wonderful escort lady (gotta call her something else ) wasn't available to escort him home on the bus as usual because her husband's mum died suddenly. Ehs cam home and threw himself into Lola's (the labrador) pen and lay there rubbing her paw against her face, his red face streaming with silent tears. The interesting thing in terms of this particular thread is that his whispery voice was barely audible during this acute period of desperation. He sometimes also uses a high-pitched 'baby' voice when anxious. So yeah, Robert, there's definitely something in that.

[darkshine]

I speak pretty quietly and people often don't hear me, especially if I don't know them well - I have to make a really big effort to talk louder - and it feels like an effort too, it's hard to do cuz I have to breathe in to force the sound out louder, and even then I'm not loud, that's just to get my voice to a similar level to everyone else - if I'm somewhere noisy then you got no chance of hearing me.

 

And then when I'm angry I can be too loud for some reason anger overrules everything.

Edited July 4, 2012 by darkshine