My view on: 'Peoples opinions and problem solving'

[A-S warrior]

One thing ive come to realise latley, is that opinion has no place with problem solving. if you spend your time constantly arguing about whos right, then nothing will ever get done about the problem.

 

Take me for example, the other weekend i started my youth offending training. and we were all asked questions about whats your opinion on this? everyone had an opinion on something, but ive noticed that having an opinion just gets in the way of everything. it distances you from everybody else.

 

If a young lad comes in, who has just killed a baby (worst case senario i know) then my opinion has no place in helping that young lad realise his error. thats what the law system is for! my job is to lead from setting a good example and keeping my gob shut! by portraying myself as a good person, and spending as much time as possible with the person in question, that young lad will learn his own errors by seeing good in other people and reflecting on himself. if i go around talking down on him, and acting like my shi* don't stink, im only going to make the problem 100 times worse.

 

One word i like is consensus. thats what human beings should be doing more of, reaching consensus on something. albeit, that will come with some debate, but taking into account what everyone has said, and forming one awnser, and maybe letting go of some of your opinions that arn't helpful, you'll find maybe stuff will start to get done.

 

When it comes to a problem on this forum, its a team effort to solve that problem. not one man and his opinion, and then the next man with his, and then 3 pages of arguing. respect each others views, and see if that can be used to help the person in question. but the key is to be non judgemental in the approach, and to sit on the fence and weigh things up. PM each other, develop communication skills with each other, instead of filling a thread up with junk. disscuss the problem at hand in a cool and controlled manner.

 

This forum is a perfect place for all of you to practice communication skills, to set you up for real life. you want to be the best person you can be right? well here is your chance to start that journey. so dont blow it.

[Lyndalou]

Sounds like a very sensible and considered approach

[dekra]

My opinion on this is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they must also respect that others have their own opinions.

That doesn't mean to say one is right and the other is wrong. Understanding that and learning to respect others and their opinions even if you do not agree is an important life skill. As you said before consensus is important but also conpromise.

 

Somethings you should never compromise be it dignity integrity or similar but other things compromise is a hugely important thing.

 

My big example of this is I never wasted my time with guys I wasn't that into. I was alone for many many years (kept company by my obessions but that's a different story) and the guys that were interested in me I wasn't interested in them. I was not prepared to waste years of my life in the wrong relationship like I'd seen so many others do just because they had to be with someone. When I finally met my husband everything was so right we just clicked but as the years have gone on in order for our partnership to flourish we've had to compromise on things we'd not have considered when we were single. And as a couple we've had to compromise things we liked to do to become parents. All these choices and decisions whilst taking away some of out personal freedoms and choices have greatly enriched our lives. Outwith personal relationships compromise still plays a role in wider society. Basic law and order is a prime example of it. At some point in the lawless history of civilisation people realised having the freedom to steal and harm and kill might be useful for some but not for others and that it was beneficial for the community as a whole to have rules (ie laws) to prevent such actions. Thus people compromised their freedom to act as they choose to instead being free to act within a set of guidelines that was on the whole better unless you were the person thriving by killing, stealing and maiming.

 

I also agree with what you say about being judgemental. I am a student nurse and if 2 people come to me for treatment, one poor, homeless and smelly and the other rich and well groomed I should not treat either of them differently because of that. Neither if the poor man is polite and kind and the rich man obnoxious, they still deserve equal care. The only difference in anyones care should be what is required for that individual not who they are what they have or how they act.

 

Having said all that it can be difficult to put such good ideals into practice but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, too many people don't bother with things because it's too hard.

Edited October 27, 2012 by dekra

[raydon]

I think your own opinion is a starting point for discussion. It is the attitude you approach other peoples opinions with, which is important. There is a big difference between reasoned discussion and argument.

 

Laws and social rules are, ideally, made through consensus, but often people in power or who have vested interests and leverage can distort this process. Another problem is, defining the borders, for example, there are multiple laws covering abuse, each one specific to a certain type, drilled down to such a level that it can infringe on your own personal "rights" or freedom of speech. It would be so much easier to have one general law, but it seems to be unworkable.

 

I see this forum as a place to discuss issues, albeit in public, so we can see other's logic, reasoning, or lack of reason, give support and advice. There are a myriad ways of solving a problem, there isn't just one answer, so I don't think the forum should try to form a consensus on this, but should be open to all views as long as they are respectful of each others and fall within forum rules.

 

Ultimately it is up to the individual to draw his/her own conclusions, and to be able to agree to disagree. I've come here as an individual to exchange ideas, not to align myself with anything.

Edited October 27, 2012 by raydon

[LancsLad]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here Ben. As a foster carer I was asked to be involved with the induction and training of people who came into the system wanting to be foster carers. One of the bigest problems were opinions and getting them out of the way.

 

A lot of these adults came from nice middle class backgrounds and with it they brought their opinions many of which would sit comfortably in the pages of the Daily Mail (a personal opinion I know but one based on experience). Now these are fine in many situations but when it comes to solving problems they can be detrimental. I used to talk to these individuals about cases I was involved in. When I started to explain I was involved with integrating a child back into the life of her mother who was an ex heroin user and prostitute the opinions started to flow. From many it was the child should not be allowed back with her mother. But I pointed out that a judge who had great experience in these sorts of things had looked very carefully at the case and had come to the conclusion that it was in the best interests of the child to do so. I pointed out that my opinion was completly irrelevant rather being a foster carer was a problem solving exercise and in that case the exercise was to go from two hours of contact a week back to living together full time within a year.

 

Some people would say I couldn't do that, my response was if you think you can pick and choose what you want to do then is sugest the door is over there and go and think about adoption because life doesn't really work like that if you are a foster carer.

 

In a similar way people come to the forum post a problem along with their opinion. That is like saying I want to foster the kid mentioned but if I don't like her mum and think she is a bit of a 'slag' and the kid is nice I want to keep her. They would start to make judgements based on I am better than her, which simply is not right. In my experience you have to look at mum for what she is and that is the childs mum, because that is how the kid sees her. You focus on parenting skills and work at making her the best mum she can be, and in this particular case that was a pretty reasonable mum at the end of the day. And that is where opinions do have value when you tell someone you have come a long way and are a pretty good mum in my book, now believe in yourself and get on with things.

 

And I think that highlights another issue with opinions. When people ask for help they often use opinions as a defense mechanism to protect the real issues. In the example I am using 20% of the work I did was done with the child in reaching a successful conclusion. The other 80% was done with mum a lot of it one to one. I do wonder how much one to one work is done via PM at really solving problems. Or are opinions on the main forum simply used as a barrier to having to really work at things. We don't seek real answers rather we solicit opinions from the membership. In the way the judge offered a proposition can you integrate two individuals back together. Well often there is only one way to find out we can give out opinions for ever if mum and child might be capable of getting back together but there comes a point where you have to try and find out. And in my experience that can get messy and fights break out and we need time outs to simply calm down, but we can get there in the end. Opinions in some ways are the best excuse in the world not to do anything.

 

If think there are lots of elements which are transfarable between what I used to do in foster care scenarios and what I see on the forum. The most important thing is the individual who posts and respecting life is what it is for them. What is important however is that people genuinely do want to solve problems. What frustrates me at times is that people use thier own opinions to try and find alignment with other members who think the same way a lot of the time. And I think this is the major problem on the forum at the moment, it becomes an opinion club and not a problem solving club. At times I ask myself am I actually doing more harm than good by being on the forum. What I mean by that is whilst I know I balance my forum activity with going out and doing other things does everyone, am I simply facilitating others living a life sat behind a computer exchanging opinions.

 

The thing which made foster care manageble when all hell was breaking loose is that we were problem solving on a day by day basis and were making progress, it created a momentum. I do not see that level of momentum on the forum rather it feels very cyclical and every few months returns back to the same points. It may be the case individuals are making massive strides forwards in their lives but I don't see the evidence there. I personally came to the forum 10 months ago because of serious problems regarding a back injury which had impacted greatly in my life. I had some time on my hand. Currently I am working back towards a previous position problem solving each day. I might work through it, or I might need surgery to try and resolve things. Either way I believe there will be a point down the line maybe next summer when I will either be potentially training again full time or I will have focused fully on my design work. At that point I have thought where will the forum fit in because everyone knows what my opinions are so why regurgitate them, if it is not a problem solving environment then I think you are right Ben what is the point of the forum?

 

Your final points about communication are spot on.

Edited October 27, 2012 by LancsLad

[karmadestiny]

I think sometimes people get stuck in a certain place that can overwhelm them and are too fearful of were their next steps will take them...FEAR is the main culprit that stops us from seeing things as they really are, or taking responsibility for the choices that we make or don't make...Either we're too laid back and can't be bothered and look for the opinions of others to give us a direction to TRY and follow or we force our own opinions on others so that we can feel we are in the right and know what we are doing...or simply we're soooo... lost that we really can't see the sign posts or have enough energy to even begin to sift through our lives or put any practicality in to sorting our lives out because we feel we're simply not capeable of doing that and give up even before trying...

 

As much as I sometimes feel things are just moved around on forums from one position to the next without any visible success, I feel alot is achieved behind the scenes, even if it just gives someone the strength to take their first steps in knowing that there are others out there in the very same if not worst positions than them...or allowing someone whose found it hard to express what they feel to be able to write a few words...it gives them a foundation to move forwards and learn to take the reins of life in their own hands...nothing is ever wasted maybe just takes a different or alternative route...Everything is a process...a step at a time...those of us who have the capabilities or have been blessed to have had the strength to walk through the dark passages and come out the other end are now tested for their Patience, Tolerance and the ability to understand the pitfalls of this journey and allow those who are still struggling to come home in their own time with as much support and understanding as possible. This shows us what WE still need to work on, were we're still lacking as WHOLE human beings...there are certain things in life that just cannot be hurried and need time to heal from within...Isn't that the whole purpose of having compassion and mercy...?

Edited October 27, 2012 by karmadestiny

[trekster]

Personally I think a combination of venting and asking for help can work on a forum.

If people are expecting sympathy from me they need to look elsewhere because im

going to offer practical advice and where I can some empathy.

 

What I would prefer people to do is avoid using '!' marks after each sentence or

all caps or other forms of shouting at people when I post my advice. Most of you here

find my advice welcome and appreciated.

 

There used to be a repetitive texter that if I didn't answer her text messages within

5 mins she would repeat the message and add an exclamation mark on the end.

If I did answer she would ask more questions and I would end up overloaded

with constant questioning. I had to stop her texting me in the end and gave her a week

to change her behaviour from constant texting to none (asking for a reduction the

previous year hadn't worked and this was going into a 19th month of constant messages).

 

I had exhausted all possible alternatives with her. Every message after I told her 'you have a

week to leave me alone' was 'go away' or 'no'. She suddenly got nasty and started tying

me up in knots saying she was going to leave me alone then texting me 22minutes later.

After 5 days I couldn't take any more of her behaviour (she was sending me 3 messages

an hour for up to 10 hours per day) and my mum offered to intervene. She cut my mum

off but eventually my mum got through to her mum who explained why her daughter had

been constantly texting me. Ever since her mum now refuses to speak to me when she arrives

with her daughter. 2 months later and im tempted to speak to her mum next time she drops

her daughter off, her mum needs to understand im running an autism support group and that i had

little choice but to take the action that i eventually did. Her daughter has contributed to my

stress levels quite severely over the past 18 months.

 

Whenever someone replies to my posts with exclamation marks on each sentence I feel uneasy.

If someone posts a problem on here im expecting they are asking for advice unless they clearly state

as much (and that they are likely to get annoyed or upset if anyone attempts to offer them advice).

 

It is hard work being autistic, i have no idea what it's like to be a parent, but i do know what it is

like to worry about my autistic in denial parent and also my siblings. ive had to grow up very

quickly due to my upbringing some of which has caused a lot of deep rooted MH problems

which im constantly fighting to get the right support. Currently trying to deal with the following problems

which i really would appreciate your advice with;

 

1, trying to find somewhere that is ground floor (or lift wheelchair access) in a local area. Currently chasing up housing associations via email and considering postal only ones found via yell.com

 

2, trying to make career plans

 

 

3, failed this year at university due to my new diagnoses of HMS/EDS3, carpel tunnel and the realisation that im expecting an orthostatic intolerance diagnosis by next easter. Trying to appeal my grade cap and considering changing mentor next year.

 

 

4, preparing myself for a physical rehab program for my HMS/EDS3/fibro

 

 

5, trying to get a social worker that communicates weekly with me until all the above are sorted out.

 

 

6, trying to work with a new doctors surgery

 

 

7, trying to find a new exercise regime that is memorable (literally) and workable

 

 

8, trying to get support to run and expand autism social groups. Currently building links with various people and organisations that could possibly help. Have some manpower to help.

 

 

9, trying to work out which friends to keep and which to leave well alone

 

 

10, trying to get long term stable mental health (counselling) support, currently considering EMDR but the nearest to me is Birmingham.

 

 

11, trying to prepare for the worst time of year for me (due to so many memories) xmas.

 

 

12, trying to sort out my hoard of stuff.

 

 

13, trying to sell my flat

 

 

14, trying to help various relatives with their needs.

 

 

15, trying to keep it together because im likely to loose 3 friends to cancer soon and I've just lost a friend to cancer.

 

 

16, trying to get a better sleep and eating routine.

[justine1]

My opinion on this is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they must also respect that others have their own opinions.

That doesn't mean to say one is right and the other is wrong. Understanding that and learning to respect others and their opinions even if you do not agree is an important life skill. As you said before consensus is important but also conpromise.

 

Somethings you should never compromise be it dignity integrity or similar but other things compromise is a hugely important thing.

 

My big example of this is I never wasted my time with guys I wasn't that into. I was alone for many many years (kept company by my obessions but that's a different story) and the guys that were interested in me I wasn't interested in them. I was not prepared to waste years of my life in the wrong relationship like I'd seen so many others do just because they had to be with someone. When I finally met my husband everything was so right we just clicked but as the years have gone on in order for our partnership to flourish we've had to compromise on things we'd not have considered when we were single. And as a couple we've had to compromise things we liked to do to become parents. All these choices and decisions whilst taking away some of out personal freedoms and choices have greatly enriched our lives. Outwith personal relationships compromise still plays a role in wider society. Basic law and order is a prime example of it. At some point in the lawless history of civilisation people realised having the freedom to steal and harm and kill might be useful for some but not for others and that it was beneficial for the community as a whole to have rules (ie laws) to prevent such actions. Thus people compromised their freedom to act as they choose to instead being free to act within a set of guidelines that was on the whole better unless you were the person thriving by killing, stealing and maiming.

 

I also agree with what you say about being judgemental. I am a student nurse and if 2 people come to me for treatment, one poor, homeless and smelly and the other rich and well groomed I should not treat either of them differently because of that. Neither if the poor man is polite and kind and the rich man obnoxious, they still deserve equal care. The only difference in anyones care should be what is required for that individual not who they are what they have or how they act.

 

Having said all that it can be difficult to put such good ideals into practice but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, too many people don't bother with things because it's too hard.

 

I agree with the above. I personally do not think I could "side" with the majority if I thought what they were saying was wrong. I have (as in this case) agreed with people on the forum on many occassions,unfortunatley it is sometimes the minority and therefore to the OP may be swept aside in favour of the majority or just what they perceive to be good advice.

 

I loathe the saying "if you got nothing good/positive to say don't say it" much prefer "the truth hurts" so I think being honest(but not brutal) with giving an opinion is important. I do think it can get too personal sometimes and then I would bow out of such a discussion. Everyone should be able to express themselves though.

[darkshine]

Currently trying to deal with the following problems which i really would appreciate your advice with;

 

11, trying to prepare for the worst time of year for me (due to so many memories) xmas.

 

12, trying to sort out my hoard of stuff.

 

16, trying to get a better sleep and eating routine.

 

The hoard of stuff will only get sorted if you really want to deal with it and then find some way that you can deal with it, I struggled with this for years, but had to create my own methods and be really fair, so I won't just throw stuff out indiscriminately - but I do ask myself what I need, and I do give in and admit some things aren't gonna be used, or that they are wasting space or I've outgrown them, or they are broke, or stuff that people gave me that I don't like and then a year or so later I get rid of it.

 

Sleep routine is the same sort of deal, you gotta want to address it - I'm not gonna spiel off a load of stuff - it depends on what the issue is, but it takes a lot of like patience and commitment and stuff to sort out. It's harder if you have specific problems, like insomnia is awkward or nightmares or whatever... but with both, I know that there's sometimes things I can do to ease that and not stray too far from a sleep routine... pain is another issue I used to struggle with, that was harder to work out, but my pain was from tension so I could do something about it, it took ages.

 

Preparing for this time of year is difficult, I find the reduced light and cold to be unhelpful and I also have bad memories associated with xmas - I don't know if this a personal thing or not, but it gets less bad, I dread it less early, I think about stuff less as time goes on - I can honestly see me just acknowledging the date, and giving myself a break - maybe this year, I think its better to think that way than start to do a count down to the day you dread.

 

I'm sort of going into this part of the year and I am attempting to stay in a neutral mindset because I've found that because autumn and winters have been bad that I fall into this mindset that they all will be, and that isn't necessarily right, its harder in quite a few ways. There's some good things about this time of year (even from my depressive previous experiences there were still good points from time to time).

[darkshine]

One thing ive come to realise latley, is that opinion has no place with problem solving

 

Course it does, there I am, I'm trying to work something out and I turn to my mate and go "what do you think?" they go "well Darkshine you are being an idiot because you are complicating that" and I go "why?" and they say a bunch of stuff and I go "well alright then, I agree with that and that, but not that, and have you thought about this?" so we discuss it and I learn something - maybe we both learn something.

 

Personally I like to know what people think,and if they tell me something that is only their opinion then that's fine cuz I can take it or leave it - but I do think opinion can potentially help with problem solving because sometimes there aren't cold hard facts, and there isn't a set of instructions, so opinion can be tagged into things like experience, which when I haven't got a clue about how to do something and someone has an opinion on how to address it - I'll sure as hell listen - its then really up to me if I agree or not and what I wish to do about it.

 

I think its all about how we give and receive opinions - really all they are is what someone thinks at any given time, they are subject to change sometimes, and the value or importance we place on another's experience is just as much each parties' responsibility to engage with each other in such a manner that doesn't facilitate harmful behaviours - that means personal responsibility as well as shared. Also having some degree of realisation that an opinion doesn't have to be the end of the world, it doesn't have to be anything at all, useful or not, just see them for what they are interesting, varied, mixed, quirky, boring, weird, funny - and what's better is if people actually know why they have an opinion in the first place and it can be pretty interesting debating it.

[A-S warrior]

Just want to say some really really good posts here. darkshine, i love the green text when i get a mo i'll go through and start replying to you all. each post is so well written it deserves its own time allocated to reply to it.

[trekster]

The hoard of stuff will only get sorted if you really want to deal with it and then find some way that you can deal with it, I struggled with this for years, but had to create my own methods and be really fair, so I won't just throw stuff out indiscriminately - but I do ask myself what I need, and I do give in and admit some things aren't gonna be used, or that they are wasting space or I've outgrown them, or they are broke, or stuff that people gave me that I don't like and then a year or so later I get rid of it.

 

***ive got some support to deal with my hoard and it is something im working on. i know i need to deal with my hoard but ive got quite a bad case of hoarding, to the state of overcrowding my rooms as 1 bedroom is full of my stuff. i have a few books such as 'the life laundry'. At the moment spare stamps are going to charity and spare stitching mags are going to church so thats 2 types of hoard with some possible homes. ive tried getting rid of items that remind me of people i would rather forget which helps.

 

Sleep routine is the same sort of deal, you gotta want to address it - I'm not gonna spiel off a load of stuff - it depends on what the issue is, but it takes a lot of like patience and commitment and stuff to sort out. It's harder if you have specific problems, like insomnia is awkward or nightmares or whatever... but with both, I know that there's sometimes things I can do to ease that and not stray too far from a sleep routine... pain is another issue I used to struggle with, that was harder to work out, but my pain was from tension so I could do something about it, it took ages.

 

***Problem is my saving time obsession overtakes or i forget to go to bed partly because there is no right or wrong time to go to bed and also because 'going to bed when im tired' = if not tired then avoid going to bed. i am in so much pain that 4 hours later i still havent dropped off. i do have quite severe insomnia, nightmares and also difficulties climbing the stairs to bed. Once i get my flat sold (a major worry) then i think finding my ground floor accommodation and going back to reading in bed should work. If i eat 3 meals a day and take my pain meds and most of my supplements im normally sleeping well.

 

Preparing for this time of year is difficult, I find the reduced light and cold to be unhelpful and I also have bad memories associated with xmas - I don't know if this a personal thing or not, but it gets less bad, I dread it less early, I think about stuff less as time goes on - I can honestly see me just acknowledging the date, and giving myself a break - maybe this year, I think its better to think that way than start to do a count down to the day you dread.

 

***That makes sense but for me there are 12 days to xmas and having a family that really wish my autism would go away for xmas day is the hardest part of xmas. There is a friend who i might stay with instead so just me and her then have new year or a few days later say 28th with family instead.

 

I'm sort of going into this part of the year and I am attempting to stay in a neutral mindset because I've found that because autumn and winters have been bad that I fall into this mindset that they all will be, and that isn't necessarily right, its harder in quite a few ways. There's some good things about this time of year (even from my depressive previous experiences there were still good points from time to time).

 

Unsure if it's depression or just bad memories associated with unrecognised CPTSD issues. Also in the New Year will be an opportunity for me because my physical rehab weeks are likely to come up then. ive been waiting a few years for this process to happen and to be approved. i actually told them i would prefer to be in over xmas but as other patients are of the opposite mindset this cant apply.