can those with ASD's be shy?

[Strange girl]

Sorry, not a lot of explanation here.. just a straight out curiousity. Is shyness a social awareness? does it require theory of mind? or is it a seperate personality trait found in both NT's and AS that is seperate from social communication all together? or maybe it is more prevelent in girls than boys? opinions greatly received.

[baddad]

Hi Strange girl...

Firstly, I think any answer to the question you pose would need a concrete definition of 'shyness' and i don't think there is one... there are all sorts of reasons why people may feel reluctant to engage in social situations, and while 'embarrassment', 'lack of confidence', 'low self esteem' and 'fear' (of confrontation or messing up etc) are obvious associations to make they do not offer any explanation as to 'why'?

I think that adults with AS who have some social awareness will be aware that other people respond to them 'differently' . They may not be able to identify what they are getting 'wrong', but they will be aware that (from other peoples POV) they are getting something wrong, and that could be a very powerful trigger for those negative associations I've detailed.

Secondly, I don't think that ASD necessarily implies an absence of theory of mind or social awareness... It can compromise, undoubtedly, but that's a completely different thing...

I think for SOME people with ASD's social reticence is actually more fundamantel - they just aren't interested or are only interested on their terms. That's not shyness - it's just preference...

 

Hope that's helpful (?)

 

BD

[TuX]

It depends on which dictionary definition of shy is being used,because there are quite a lot,and they are all confusing.

 

Part of ASD can be mistaken for shyness-growing up being mostly non verbal and wanting to do things on own for example,not talking is often seen as a core example of shyness by many for some reason [judging by my experience].

 

Another word for [shy] is [introverted] and when [introvert] is searched in the thesaurus,one of the results it comes up with is Autist,so perhaps [shy] and [introvert] are just labels of a group of traits,rather than having any physical reason at all.

Edited March 4, 2006 by TuX

[Flora]

Hi Strange girl...

Firstly, I think any answer to the question you pose would need a concrete definition of 'shyness' and i don't think there is one... there are all sorts of reasons why people may feel reluctant to engage in social situations, and while 'embarrassment', 'lack of confidence', 'low self esteem' and 'fear' (of confrontation or messing up etc) are obvious associations to make they do not offer any explanation as to 'why'?

I think that adults with AS who have some social awareness will be aware that other people respond to them 'differently' . They may not be able to identify what they are getting 'wrong', but they will be aware that (from other peoples POV) they are getting something wrong, and that could be a very powerful trigger for those negative associations I've detailed.

Secondly, I don't think that ASD necessarily implies an absence of theory of mind or social awareness... It can compromise, undoubtedly, but that's a completely different thing...

I think for SOME people with ASD's social reticence is actually more fundamantel - they just aren't interested or are only interested on their terms. That's not shyness - it's just preference...

 

Hope that's helpful (?)

 

BD

 

I have nothing to say other than..... Baddad That was an awsomely brilliant answer. Seriously

 

Lauren

[Tilly]

My ASD daughter is extremely shy but so are her two NT siblings.

 

Tilly

[justamom]

My AS son is shy around people he does not know he even blushes

[ceecee]

Baddad

 

I agree with you entirely that for some people with a.s. socially they are not interested or only on their terms.Like you said that isn't shyness that is just preference.

 

 

Excellently put.i couldn't have put it better myself.

 

Seriously though well put

[on the edge]

My 3 year old AS son is shy. When meeting people for the first time he looks at them with great interest until they look back or talk to him. Then he is very bashful - but still interested...he gives them kind of sneaky glances with his head down. However this can then lead quickly on to behaviour such as getting completely over-excited or fixating on their shoes and trying to rub them or something- he once tried to kiss the Sky repair man..I would say he definitely shows social awareness but not always socially acceptable responses!!

 

He is very gorgeous, smiley and cute though and can get away with it!!!!!!!

[witsend]

Funny Ive never really thought about this until now, but my AS son has no shyness whatsoever , he doesn't do embarrassment much either .

luv Witsend.

[Strange girl]

Thanks all for your considered responses You have given me a lot to ponder. My son is anything BUT shy, he is very outgoing in most cases.. but then I think I read somewhere once, (baron- cohen? Lorna Wing? not sure) about 3 different types of those with HFA, aloof; active but odd and passive. I would say my son would be active but odd. But I was thinking more of the aloof, or passive? working along the definition of shy as being socially introverted or reluctance to mix with ones peers. It may appear as shyness to the outsider but perhaps just be a preference- as baddad said. As a socially aware adult with AS its just like the experience he described. . Actually everything Baddad said there made sense thanks BD

[Bullet]

Ds1 is definitely not shy, but because he can't speak to people or answer them people sometimes think he is. He is actually extremely selfassured and has never had any separation anxiety.

[Zemanski]

AS people have personality traits alongside their social communication problems and there are just as many of those for them as for NT people.

 

Com is up front and in your face most of the time but I know several very shy AS people; I would say that shyness would be likely to compound the social communication difficulties, perhaps encouraging withdrawal, but that it is in addition and perhaps determines more the way the person deals with their social communication difficulties rather than being the root of the problem

 

Zemanski

[qthewingedserpent]

Good answer Baddad! I was always accused of being shy to the extent where I believed it myself, but as I've got older I've realised it's not the case. It's a combination of not being interested in talking to people and also as you mention this 'feeling' that I'm missing something, that there's obviously some hidden thing that everyone does naturally in social situations that I don't have. It's very frustrating indeed and I still don't know what it is I'm missing, but I go pretty much mute when in a social group but not out of shyness.

[ceecee]

gthewingedserpent

 

I agree with you.Many adults with a.s. are told they are shy.Often this is not the case and it is just they quite simply don't know what to say and are often unable to follow the conversation fully and communicate in the same way as others.

 

Hope this makes sense

 

 

They are often told they are rude as well.Yet this is unfair as well.It is often they don't understand the rules of social etiquette.

 

I would say many people witha.s. are interested in talking to people if they can lead the conversation and talk about what they wish to talk about.They often will not be lead onto other subjects

Edited March 7, 2006 by ceecee

[Bullet]

I can relate to this. I tend to clam up in group situations, partly because I find it difficult to follow the conversation and partly because if there's too much noise and people moving about I get really stressed. It's almost painful and I can't relax. So I tend to shut myself away. If someone approaches me I can say hello and talk, but can't carry on conversations very well and unfortunately I do tend to dominate the talking.