Do any of you have bilingual AS kids?

[zaman]

I was reading an article in the paper yesterday about how being bilingual helps young children's brains develop in lots of positive ways: "Bilingual children do better in verbal and non verbal tests. They have better metaligusitic awareness and greater cognative flexibility''. I was interested to see how many of us on the forum are bringing up our AS children bilingually (that is being brought up in a household where more than one language is spoken)? And if you can see the secondary benefits of it as quoted, or others?

 

We are doing it as my husband has English as a second language, and we feel it is important for him and the children to communicate with each other in his first language. And I speak with them in English (and as we live in England this is their primary language). We have had a mixed reception to this from the various 'professionals' that we have come into contact with. At his first assessment the pead thinks it is a very bad idea as my son has a severe language delay, and the SALT wasn't far off as she was worried that he would find it confusing (he doesn't). This was only one of the reasons that I found the first assessment to be so poor. At his second assessment the team were really good all round, and strongly supported his bilingualism as being such a major part of his cultural identity.

 

Anyone else out there doing this?

Edited March 6, 2006 by zaman

[lil_me]

Depends if the child is happy and coping with it. My son is 7 now and went through a phase of liking Dora the Explorer so I started teaching him basic Spanish, he got confused and started talking using words from both so we had to stop as he was becoming extremely frustrated. As my Dad put it - 'He's got enough difficulty using the English language never mind trying to teach him another'. Might try again when he is older but with the communication difficulties he has now I don't think it is a good idea for us.

Edited March 5, 2006 by lil_me

[Tylers-mum]

If your son has a language delay, then personally, I have to side with the Pead and SALT on this one.

 

My son started nursery in a Welsh speaking school, he also had a language delay and failed to pick up the new language. Due to this and other factos, he was then removed from that school and placed into an English speaking school where he is thriving. He is at the age now where the school are now introducing Welsh as a second language and once again, T is struggling, he says he doesn't understand what it means!

 

I think our kids have a hard enough time understanding English both verbally and non-verbally and I feel that it's unfair to introduce a new language when it's clear they struggle with just the one.

I'm closely monitoring T and how he's managing with this second language being thrust at him.

[zaman]

I think that there is a difference between being bilingual, and learning a second language (which is what I think you meant here lil-me?). Both my kids have grown up in a home where both languages are spoken. But we have always been clear about which one of us speaks which, so as not to confuse. They are both happy with it, and can make the distinction as to which language to use with who, and my AS son is very able to manipulate the fact that I am monolingual to tell his dad that I said it was ok to give him certain things!

[lil_me]

Yes I know what I mentioned was a different thing. But it is my only experience with trying to develop understanding different languages.

 

I have many friends who are Indian and Chinese and their children are brought up bilingual, some take it like a duck to water, but some have a bit of difficulty with it. I can understand why you wish your son to know both, and if he's handling it well I can't see why the proffesionals have an issue with it.

[curra]

My son is bilingual, as English is my second language. He has had no problems with this, and he's doing fine in both languages as well in his French lessons at school. I think that one of the benefit is that, if the child enjoys languages, that they can develop language skills better when they begin to compare the languages. My son finds rules by himself, and he can adapt some words into the other language when words have the same root. Because he has a very good memory and likes this, his vocabulary is very wide.

But I think it depends really on the child. My son's strength is language while numbers is his weak point and at the age of 12 he still needs a calculator to add numbers under 10!! .

 

Curra

[Canopus]

Is it better to learn a mainstream language like French and German or is it better to learn a more obscure or non European language? State schools only ever teach European languages but most bilingual kids in Britain speak a non European language.

[zaman]

''I think our kids have a hard enough time understanding English both verbally and non-verbally and I feel that it's unfair to introduce a new language when it's clear they struggle with just the one.''

 

Again, I think that there is a difference between teaching a child another language, and their being bilingual, as the latter is something which has always been a part of their lives. What would be 'unfair' for my child would be to cut him off from his cultural identity. (Something which was reinforced at the second assessment which we had - in a much more mulitcultural environment than we had the first).

 

I'm not advocating that everyone should teach their child a second language, I'm asking if anyone else on this forum is bringing up their child bilingually.

[curra]

Is it better to learn a mainstream language like French and German or is it better to learn a more obscure or non European language? State schools only ever teach European languages but most bilingual kids in Britain speak a non European language.

 

My son's languages are English and Spanish which have several things in common, such as the alphabet and Latin roots, but I think that if the child is bilingual, it doesn't matter much if the language is linguistically related to English or not because they learn it from a parent and not formally as in a classroom. They pick it up from the conversation of adults as well and they learn it even if they make lots of errors. On the other hand, I think that if a child has language delay it's better to help the child develop only one language at a time until he has made considerable progress in it.

 

Zaman, I think that even if you don't emphasise learning the other language, you won't cut your child from the cultural heritage which can be expressed in many other ways. Children learn lots of words related to the culture anyway, even if they can't manipulate the language on a daily communication. They learn songs, names of festivals, names of foods and as they grow, they become more interested in the parent's cultural background and they pick up sayings and phrases.

 

Curra

[zaman]

I'm beginning to wish I hadn't started this now! It was a question to see if there were other families out there doing this, rather than to ask you all what you think of us doing it. But for the record, my son is very happy being bilingual - there has been no stress put on him to learn another language, as both languages are spoken equally at home (and the type of speech developmental issues he has are the same in both languages). I would rather his dad spoke to him fluently in his own language than badly in English (as does the psyc). And his sense of cultural identity is strong, which is vital to a mixed race child being brought up in middle england.

[puffin]

There is a HUGE difference between being naturally bilingual and trying to learn a language that is not spoken at home.

 

My AS daughter is billigual - and it works out very well - if it is working out in your family then I wouldn't let anyone put you off. I am English but we do not live in England. The ASD specialist team unit encouraged me to speak English with my daughter as I have a better usage of English than the other language. They said that in order to learn a language you need to have it modelled very well - therefore the parents should speak their own langauge unless they have complete fluency. My daughter has never been confused as in her head they are totally separate.

 

This is not to say that everything is plain sailing - between the ages of 4 and 6 she went through a passive stage of learning the other language but refusing to speak it. I remember being called into school when she was 7 as they had decided that she was unable to read as she always refused to read. However we later found out this to be a consequence of the teacher from hell who she had that year, the only way that this teacher would "hear children read" was to force them to stand up and read in front of the whole class - and how many AS kids want to do that! It turned out of course that she could read and was in fact among the best readers in her class - however she learns language very much as a mathematical puzzle - it does not come totally naturally in the same way as a mother tongue. She does not always understand slang expressions either as neither neither my husband or I understand them either.

 

There are definitely some advantages if you are a bilingual family:

 

If both languages are frequently spoken in your household it is much bettern that you AS child should learn it otherwise the AS child will be excluded from certain social contacts and relationships with sibiling and also relatives who perhaps do not speak English. We have no relatives where we live - so if we only spoke the other language my daughter would not be able to communicate with Grandparents, cousins etc.

 

We found ourselve questioned in the same way - but has your child been assessed in the other language? - we requested an assessment in English as all the early assessments were done in her second language - the one she was refusing to speak very much as the time. This was very revealing and gave a much better insight into her abilities than the assessments in the other language.

 

In the long run being bilingual will be an asset - some people can try to rank good and bad bilingual languages - but speking other languages is often a great merit. I have a friend who is Hispanic from the USA. In the 1970s speaking spanish was frowned upon as if was associated with poor/lower class Mexican immigrants - so her billingual parents never taught her. Now there is great demand for biligual workers yet she is unable to apply for many attractive jobs in local and state government because she does not speak spanish.

 

Therefore I would say go with your gut instincts and continue to raise your child bilingually.

[melg]

Zaman Hi,

 

My partner and I are bring up our AS son (4 and a half) as bilingual. My other half is French. Our son, Louis, has a severe language delay. He only started speaking at all at 4 years and at 4 and a half has only just started making requests with words following quite intensive Verbal Behaviour therapy.

 

Like you, our decision to persist with a bilingual lifestyle for him was not always looked on favourably by medical people involved in his care. I have to admit I sometimes wonder whether we are doing the right thing myself, but I think it is really important that his father communicate with him in his "natural" language, and I know that, in spite of his language delay, Louis does understand much of what is said to him in both languages.

 

I agree with you very strongly that language is a huge part of cultural identity and that our children should not be deprived of their cultural heritage. At the end of the day, I believe our son will be glad that we chose to bring him up bilingual.

 

MelG

[Malika]

Hi to all.

 

I use to speak 2 languages at home English and French (French being my mother tongue) However when I realised how H was struggling and coudn't express himself I stoped speaking French at home and just encourage him to speak in English as we live here I have not regreted it as now he is speaking a very good English even if he still has pragmatics difficuties due to his autism, the one to loose out has been his sister who understand French but find difficult to speak it now. She is studing French and Spanish and is very good in both even if her French could be better.

H strenghs are not languages but numbers and computer as well as drawing he think in picture and it was clear that being confronted to two languages was too much for him, some children with AS are very good with language and can learn very fast then speaking 2 languages should not be a problem even if it may lead to confusion may be at a more advance level.

 

As for the oportunities connecting to speaking few languages I personnaly think it is over stated I speak 3 languages (French Italien and English) and know many people who speak few languages but very few manage to work with it except if they have some degree in interpretation/translation and often speak 4 to 6 or 7 languages. I think if somebody has English for mother tongue and speak additionnal languages it is good for a CV but not always use practicaly.

 

Malika.

[Nikki]

Hi Malika & Melg

 

We live in France - Brittany - we speak english at home & my son who has autism & is 6 attends a special needs school where only French is spoken. He is only just verbal - started about 15 months ago & now can speak but his communication skills / language skills are at different levels.

 

He took to the school 2 yrs ago like a duck to water & we feel the bi lingual apprach is great for him.

He uses pecs so he is hearing the word that accompanies the pictures in both languages but seems very happy - I think his strong routine has helped and that clearly if he was not happy at school / did not understand his needs then we would see an unhappy boy - but this is not the case as he leaps into school every day with great joy!!

 

I think you have to do what you feel is best. I am pleased that someone else here has positive thoughts about this too -

 

I know it has been diffucult for our son but as we are going to be here permanently it is important for him to know both languages

cheers

Nikki

[Tilly]

Thanks to Dora The Explorer my dd would like to think she is bilingual. Dora [T.V. character] often tells viewers what certain words are in Spanish. Now dd wants to know what the Spanish, French, German and Japanese are for everyday words In the end we bought a translator, and I've been known to make up the Japanese words, but she corrects me when I 'repeat' them at a later date.

 

Tilly

[Malika]

Hi Nikky and all, <'>

 

I am very interested to know how things are for autistic children over there (France) I have heard that for children with AS and High functinning autism it is not so good but you probably know better from direct experience, What happened here with my son is that I had no support at all and he was not DX until he was 6 even if he had 2 and an 1/2 years speech delay at 4 1/2 reduce to 18 months delay at age 5 after speech therapy for 8 months strangely none one of the professional who approached H thoiught about autism, and it is only after I push the school and get a referal that he was DX at age 7. Even now H gets very little support at school.

 

May be I have highjack the thread , Nikki please if you have some spare time could you send me a PM or may be we could start another thread???

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

[Malika]

 

Sorry I meant he was refered age 6 and DX age 7. ..... Malika.

[zaman]

Thanks everyone for your replies - I'm really interested to see how many of us are doing this. The reason that I started this thread was to see if any of the 'provens' about bilingual children are also true for ASD bilingual kids (the better linguistic abilities, improved memory, etc). But at 5, I don't think that I can say (he's good at maths, but others here have said the oppostite of their child - so its hardly a scientific bit of research!)

 

When my son's speech was assessed it was done in both languages, and even though his vocabulary was quite advanced in both languages, where he falls down is the expressive (why, because, etc) stuff equally in both languages.

 

An aside, but I read about a child who was bilingual (English/Chinese) and had dyslexia, but when he was tested was only dyslexic in English, as Chinese is written pictographically.

[qthewingedserpent]

It's rubbish to say that learning another language would confuse him. Young children's brains are geared up for learning language and it can only be a good thing for him to learn two. Adults make the mistake of thinking that because languages are difficult to pick up for them that they are for children which is utter nonsense.

Studies show that children growing up speaking two languages have no trouble with it. It's no different for AS children. Yes, they might struggle with language more generally but I don't see that it could do any harm. Don't make a big issue out of it - just do it. Kids are very adaptable and accepting creatures - I'm sure it will pay dividends later.

[Malika]

Hi,

 

It's rubbish to say that learning another language would confuse him. Young children's brains are geared up for learning language and it can only be a good thing for him to learn two. Adults make the mistake of thinking that because languages are difficult to pick up for them that they are for children which is utter nonsense.

This is usualy true however may differ for a child with an ASD DX who has fairly severe language delay and sensory issue making the processing of sounds confusing.

 

Malika.

[qthewingedserpent]

Sorry if I came across as arrogant in my post. It was silly of me. I don't have experience of language learning as related to AS/Autism so I can't really claim to know what I was talking about. I hope I didn't cause offence.

Maybe I'm just bitter because my Mum and Dad are both French speakers and didn't bother teaching me a word of it!

[Canopus]

Does anybody have AS kids that know any computer languages? It is generally an accepted fact that AS kids and computers go hand in hand but can they program?

[Malika]

Hi,

 

Sorry if I came across as arrogant in my post. It was silly of me. I don't have experience of language learning as related to AS/Autism so I can't really claim to know what I was talking about. I hope I didn't cause offence.

Maybe I'm just bitter because my Mum and Dad are both French speakers and didn't bother teaching me a word of it!

 

I think with ASD AS children there is the experience and there is the individual abilities some children can have communication disorder but at the same time be able to remember language and learn them very quickly I remember seeing a programe about a young adult (on the spectrum) going to spend some time in Iceland and being able to start speaking and understanding the language very quickly, as for my son I felt that I had to make a choice and that it was much more useful for him to learn the language of the country he was living in that to learn the language of his parent and grand parents at the time he could say words but was unable to speak in sentence, I remember children in his class coming to me saying "What is wrong with H he cannot speak" . Letting go of my language was then not a real issue the issue was to make it easy for him to speak and be able to communicate.

 

As for you if you want to learn French my advice would be: learn in a class for a year and then go to France for a year work there and avoid English people the result is garanted except for very rare people who cannot learn languages. If you cannot do this just go in holiday to France for 3/4 years and you should be able to make lot of progress as well with the French TV (satellite or on the net..TV 5) you can learn a great deal it is what helped me a lot when I went first to Italy then when I came to this country News programe are excellent as they are usually at a good level and you can avoid the trap to learn slang (argot) or dialect (this is more for Italy) thinking that you are actually learning standard French.

 

All the best.

 

Malika.

 

PS and by the way no offence taken I understood what you meant.