is your AS child permanently excluded???

[polkadotty]

is there anyone else out there who has a child that has been permanently excluded, despite having a statement? My son was diagnosed with aspergers syndrome when he was 6 1/2 during the assessment period prior to the statement actually arriving. it took us 10 months to get a statement, by which time he had been excluded numerous times for 2 to 3 days at a time, 'informally' (i know there's no such thing now, but i didn't then) and ultimately he was 'informally' permanently excluded. By which the school said, either keep him at home and we'll send the LSA to your house for 10 hours a week, or we'll permanently exclude him from the school. We made the wrong call, didn't know our rights etc, and felt completely coerced into accepting a horrible situation which was untenable and awful.

 

C began a new school following statement arrival last Feb, a mainstream primary - we fought the LEA to get an improvement on 18.5 hours and ended up with 24.5 hours, which was aparently as good as we were going to get. C's statement specifically stated that he needed extra support at playtimes, the beginnings and end of day plus lunch times. These, naturally were the times when he didn't get the support he needed. Plus, becasue he is really articulate and able, most of the school staff just labelled him as stubborn, manipulative and defiant. They saw his meltdowns as bad behaviour and didn't give him support, just punished him by making him miss his 'golden time' (what a misnomer that is) and any special times in school. He seemed to spend endless breaktimes on a chair outside the staff room.

 

He was also put into the year above, because it was thought that it would help him academically, since he got so bored all the time with the work at his previous school. However, that really wasn't a great idea, since he was left out socially all the time, and couldn't keep up physically in games etc. And his class teacher insisted that 'everyone really does need to learn to play a team sport'. When i decided to be more argumentative, i said that no, tag rugby was not an essential part of a child's education, and she seemed shocked that this was my opinion. I did try to explain about tactile defensiveness and sensory integration, but it was water off a duck's back.

 

Last November C was permenently excluded very suddenly (to us) when following a day without his normal 5 hours one to one support (his LSA was ill and there was no cover), the school had not informed me of this, and C's class teacher was also ill. He failed to make a parachute work, and his peers 'laughed at him' (his words). At 3.15, he then took a pair of paper scissors and snipped a hole in another child's jumper sleeve, leaving a red mark on this child's arm. I was immediately told to remove him from the school, not to bring him in the next day, and the following day, the head phoned me and told me there and then that the exclusion was permanent.

 

It was one of the most traumatic moments of my life so far. Sorry to sound dramatic, but it was so much worse than i could have imagined it would be.

 

Since then, we fought the school's decision to exclude, but decided we didn't want C to go back there anyway, since the desire to support him was not there, from what we gathered during the disciplinary meeting with the governing body. We did not take it to appeal - we have a younger son at that school, and i know it sounds wimpy but i was feeling so miserable (i have depression also) and just knew i couldn't do it. So here we are, with no school, and the LEA telling us that mainstream is the way to go, and i don't know what the way is.

 

End ramble - if thereis anyone else out there in the same boat, i'd love to hear from you.

Charlotte polkadotty or just dotty

Edited March 9, 2006 by polkadotty

[Canopus]

I was expelled from secondary school and was statemented at the time. I was not diagnosed with AS because it happened in 1989.

[UltraMum]

It doesn't sound right to me Polkadotty ...

 

There's some fantastic advice on what schools/LEAs can and can't do re exclusions here:

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...wtopic=3714&hl=

[polkadotty]

Thanks Canopus and MotherEve - i shall have a good look at the info you pointed out. To be honest - i know that its all wrong, but we're here now and we need to find a place for Corin, sooner rather than later. maybe we should be fighting for the principles. i dunno.

 

Canopus - do you have dx of AS / ASD? How did you cope after exclusion? (if you want to talk about it of course)

 

sorry to bring this rather depressing subject up, but it rather takes up my thinking time at the moment. And it makes me hate schools and be really cynical and jaded when the LEA suggest stuff to me.

 

feeling a bit gloomy about it all.

lotty polkadotty

[annie]

Hi Charlotte,

 

Have you spoken to IPSEA.? They are VERY helpful. It may take a while to get through to them, but keep trying, it is worth it. They do not charge anything. One of their reps succeeded in getting in one meeting what I had been trying to get for ages.

 

Annie

<'>

[polkadotty]

I have spoken to them ages ago, but i should probably talk again. i keep running out of steam!! Constant daily fight with C to get him to kitchen table to work with his tutor, get in the car to pick up brother and sister etc. Not feeling too 'fighty' to quote my boys. Must get stiff upper lip reupholstered.

thanks Annie

lotty

[annie]

I know what you mean, everyday just seems like an endless battle .

 

With the LEA/school side of things, I knew what was going on was wrong, but nobody was listening to me (except the lovely people here ). When I called IPSEA, they told me that what was happening was illegal and that they were going to support me and help with paperwork and meetings. I was so relieved, at last there was somebody to help me. As well as getting for my son the education he should have been getting, IPSEA gave me the confidence which had been knocked out of me through the non-stop battling over the years.

 

Annie

<'>

[polkadotty]

Thanks Annie

I'll try and get through to them tomorrow. I'm expecting a call from one of the NAS advocacy (education) advisors tomorrow too - one of the people i've already spoken to from NAS suggested i ask the LEA to finalise the statement so that we can get to tribunal faster. What do you think?

 

Any suggestions?

lotty

[Zemanski]

I hope you manage to get something sorted, perhaps there is a unit in your authority or something similar?

have you been in touch with the advisor or team for ASDs? - they may know of suitable schools and units.

 

good luck

 

Zemanski

[polkadotty]

Thanks Zemanski. it's so nice to get feedback. When a school excludes a child i don't think they realise they are excluding the whole family. i think thank god sometimes that my son cares less about what other people think than i do, because i feel dreadful on a regular basis going in and out of the same school taking my other little boy - and he has had a really c**p time having to tell people"my brother wasn't expelled, he isn't naughty he's got asperger's". We had several weeks with him not wanting to go to school either - can't say i blame him.

 

dotty

[Canopus]

Canopus - do you have dx of AS / ASD? How did you cope after exclusion? (if you want to talk about it of course)

 

I have never been officially diagnosed. I only found out about AS around this time last year. There is lots of stuff about my exclusion and statement in older posts.

[polkadotty]

I have never been officially diagnosed. I only found out about AS around this time last year. There is lots of stuff about my exclusion and statement in older posts.

Ok Canopus - thanks. I am always interested to meet people with AS / ASD as a mum to AS / ASD child(ren) (one child still borderline, i think), especially anyone that has 'survived' the education system...

 

have a good weekend!

lotty

[steviegirl]

Polkadotty, just looked at your post and felt I had to write a note to say I understand how you feel. You know your own son, do not let the authorities tell you your son is going to be permanently excluded and that is it. Now you must make a bit of a nuisance and fight for your familys rights. My daughter was told her son was just a naughty boy and was disturbing the classroom, but anyone knows that to be like it all the time would make a child without problems exhausted, so something is wrong.

Get in touch with every child caring agency you can until he gets the help and suddenly you will come into contact with a proffessional that understands Aspergers syndrome.

Children and adults with Aspergers find it difficult enough without being victimised. Yes I will go that far and say that. I say this as a grandmother who has seen what my daughter went through till she finally got the help. Keep your chin up and he knows how much he is loved which is the most important and try and get some little breaks yourself.

[polkadotty]

Hi Steviegirl

 

Thanks for your message - i do wonder how the educational system thinks it can just wash its hands of children that need the most support. My son was very disruptive in class, but as you say, not because he'd decided to be a little b****r, just because he didn't have another way to manage himself in an environment that caused him so much stress. But, like a post i just read ("ignorant parents in the playground") i have had so many people, complete strangers / other parents in the playground come up to me and say really unkind things about C. And other kids rushing up to me to say " oh C was really naughty today at school. He had to miss break and lunchtime play and he has been in HT's office all afternoon" etc etc ad nauseam. And i think it's the school's place to explain to the kids, so they can explain to the parents, that AUTISM IS NOT NAUGHTINESS. Sorry to shout.

 

In many ways, it's so nice not to have to take C to school every day. Admittedly, i take his brother and sister every day, and so he sits in the car in the carpark while i take the other two inside. But i don't have that gut-wrenching worry every day, every minute of the day wondering when they're going to call me to ask me to bring him home, or to tell me he's committed some heinous crime etc. And i don't have to carry my son, kicking and screaming over the school threshold. I tell you what, though, i shall never do that again. until i find a school that C actually feels comfortable in, and wants to go to, i shall not be sending him to school. even if it kills me....

 

i do try to take breaks, but as you all know out there, childcare for our auties is hard to come by.... and no school means all day everyday wonderful 'quality' time with my superspecial son. Some irony there. But only a little.

 

Could do with a rest.

 

thanks though. Lotty

[desperate]

Hi there,

Neil has been p excluded from three schools, he has had a statement since he was five, he is now in year ten.

He has a diagnosis of. ASD AD and he also has a PROFOUND LANGUAGE DISORDER. His literacy and numeracy skills are at level three.

At the moment he has been on an "unofficial exclusion" since 30th January, with no educational provision speech therapy etc. The school, and independent one said:-

 

Neil's perspective of life is well out of step with his peers and the staff at school. They were unable to alter the way others saw Neil as a result of this and could not stop they way he was being treated by the others. (His bullying and harrassment led him to hit another pupil.) They said it would not be fair to him to keep him in a situation that he clearly couldn't cope with.

They therefore did not feel justified in excluding him and felt he would be better on outreach.( So far he has had no outreach), with support from the school. (no support).

 

The LEA are now looking for another placement for him, but this could take months, if it happens at all.

because it is an independent school the legislation is different to state schools it seems we have no redress.

[polkadotty]

Firstly - my huge warmest sympathies go out to you. Corin is year 3, so i can only imagine how you must be feeling with a child that has gone so far through the system without the help he needs.

 

<'> to you

 

is the independant school a special school, or just an independant school? Was Neil ever in a state school?only ask because regardless of what school he HAS been in, i believe the state must provide something. We have had to fight for what we've got for Corin at the moment, and he has 'outreach' of sorts. You know about unofficial exclusions being unlawful, i expect, do you? The only good thing about permanent exclusion that i can see is that you should get more help automatically. What do your LEA say? or are they as helpful as waterskis in a crowded lift???

 

Don't give up, and don't feel there's no alternative. There is one somewhere, and you'll find it. I feel for you - i have found a great special autistic school about 40 minutes drive from us, but our LEA won't fund it for our son because they say he's too able.... Yes, intellectually, but socially, so not gifted it's not true!!!! And his antisocial behaviour usually manifests itself in thumping people - kids, staff etc, or throwing things.

So i know that a normal mainstream school isn't going to be able to manage him, or help him - but i'm not too happy with a PRU either. He can't spend the rest of his days (another 8 years or so) ina PRU.

 

hoping that by continually phoning, writing letters & emails to my SEN officer in the LEA she'll get so fed up with me she'll get Corin a school to shut me up. I call it the thorn in the side technique.

 

xx

charlotte

[jannyk]

my son j asd was permanently excluded last june hed gone over the allowed 45 days exclusion still no statement and because he is very agressive the school didnt know how to handle him . things were put in place for him IEP and Pastoral support he also had a mentor!

nothing ever worked most teachers just thought he was unruly or unteachable and his year head hadnt even heard of as or asd. sometimes when he was excluded i was told the teachers and other kids needed a break from him. and then when he would have been going into year 10 and was finally going to get some help and support he was permanently excluded .

[polkadotty]

when he would have been going into year 10 and was finally going to get some help and support he was permanently excluded .

 

Hi jannyk - what is happening with your son J at the moment? Does he get any tuition from the LEA? My son is now getting 8 hrs a week from home tutors (LEA) and has his first morning in the PRU next week. It's actually a lot nicer there than i had thought it might be.

 

I think if you look back through the posts, you'll find someone else with yr 10 boy excluded. This is such a big problem - i can hardly believe the ignorance of your son's school!!!!.....if I hadn't also been there, experienced that too.....

 

Do you get any support for J? I am looking at setting up a support group especially for families withSpecial needs kids who have been permanently excluded from mainstream. I have 2 friends in the same town (! what does that say about our LEA i wonder) with little boys aged 7 and 5 who both have AS (one also has ADHD) and have been permanently excluded in the last three weeks. One friend took the decision to appeal, and lost - we were gutted. We were sure she'd win the case.

 

Would you be interested in finding local support and / or other people to talk to re exclusion? I don't want to be an advisor, or talk shop, but it can be really helpful, we have found, to share knowledge of processes and rights etc.. regarding exclusions. This forum is so brilliant for that too.

 

My son's only opportunity to really socialise with his peers is when these two friends come over, or we go there, since everyone else is in school!!! Nturally. And when i say to the SEN offic er that yes, academically C is making progress on a mere 8 hrs a week, i have to point out that academic achievement was never C's problem - social skills and learning how to manage emotions etc (autie stuff) continues to be a big issue - how can he learn social skills on his own with one adult???? I reckon its not going to happen.

 

ANyway, ranting again. So sorry.

lol

lotty

[helenl53]

Hi Guys

 

You need to go to the IPSEA website and look up the sheets on exclusion and I think it is section 13 in which they tell you what the entitlement is for a child who is permanently excluded.

 

HelenL

[jannyk]

hi polkadotty j was given a place in a referal unit and a place was offered for him there for six weeks altohough it was extended but he didnt get on with the other kids and wouldnt go in the end i was told he would be able to have a support plan or something there told to me by the ed physc bot the refferal unit wouldnt agree to it .and after xmas he never went back i told the lea what was going on and im all set to educate him at home but its taken so long to start as his first statement was turned down second one still gouing through and ive being trying to hang on for the special schhol i want him to attend but of course its full. lea support worker came to see me last week to talk about sending him to mainstream school near where we live but its the same scool we were offered a place at last october i he will not go and i wont let him . so i feel home ed is the only answer but i have so swap my hours at work to do this a lady coming from the lea home ed group on the 27 march .we were never offered any support from anybody along the way and have never been offerd any home tuition from the lea even though they know hes at home . i feel so bitter about everything whats happened. last night j and his older brother had a proper fight over the tv and a mobile phone i feel everythings going wrong and i cant cope any more . thanks for listening x

[polkadotty]

[ i feel everythings going wrong and i cant cope any more . thanks for listening x

 

Jannyk - i am sending you such big hugs <'> <'> <'>

 

Can't help you solve this stuff - but i can pep talk you!!! You know best for your son. Dont let them fob you off - shout as loudly as you can, be as annoying as you can, ask as many questions as you can, and phone every day (if you have time / energy)....

 

I went on the rampage today. I got a phone call from a school i'd never heard of that's nearly 40 miles away, saying that they were considering my application for C at their resourced unit. Which was news to me!!!!!!!! Was i mad or was i mad

 

I picked up child no 2 and took no1 and no3 (hoping they'd all get nice and hyper on the way) and took them to the council offices. It was less satisfying that i'd hoped as there was nobody who knew my case there - but at least i got to stand there and tell several SEN people loudly how upset i am about the whole thing and what i want them to do for us.

 

I have no high hopes over the outcome, but i am so sick of not knowing what's happening, and of noone replying to my letters and emails. If i have to dance naked on the chief exec's desk, then i will.

 

must be going mad

Dotty, very dotty