Any knowledge of tics???

[Brook]

Hi all,

 

I posted a while back about my son blinking etc when he watched tv, but now it isn't just when

watching the box.

 

I will try and explain what he does.

He cups his chin in the palm of one hand and with his thumb on one cheek and his fingers on the

other he pulls the cheeks downwards and rolls his eyes repeatedly.

He then removes his hand and pulls his facial muscles down (like when you really exageratte an

unhappy expression, with the corners of your mouth really turned down), he then moves his eyes

from side to side and moves his head slightly whilst keeping his eyes to the corner, he then repeats

this, all the while he is doing it he doesn't look at anyone, it's as if he is deep in thought.

 

This goes on for quite a while and happens quite a few times a day, my hubby took him to the park

yesterday and he said how much he noticed it.

 

I have been reading up on tourettes and motor tics and that they can be co-morbid, but I haven't

read anything that says about tics and ASD's alone.

has anyone any experience or know anything about this. Please.

 

 

Hope I've explained this okay, it's hard to put the actions into words.IYKWIM.

 

Brook

[Tylers-mum]

Hiya Brook.

My son has facial tics also, they are more noticable (frequent) at times and not at others. He tends to stretch his muscles to one side, kinda like moves his mouth over to the opposite side of his face and he can do this numerous times in a row. He also has some whereby he does the same thing but along with stretching his mouth over, he'll do the same to his eyes. I guess they are more pronounced when he's stressed.

His Pead noticed these in her office once b/c his old LSA told me (I already had noticed them though) and I felt it best to mentioned it to the Pead. He did it right infront of her (not on command of course, just shere luck on our part I guess) and she asked if he had vocial tics which at the time, he didn't. She said that in order to dx Tourettes, you have to have BOTH verbal and body tics. He does however have verbal tics now but personally, I believe it is down to his HFA and not Tourettes, hence why I'm not persuing a dx.

 

I have read up that verbal and body tics are common in ASD but that Tourettes is also a co-morbid. How you tell them both apart?, I do not know but it may be worth mentioning to your son's Pead at his next appointment, just to put your mind at ease!

 

All the very best Brook. (((HUGS)))

Edited April 16, 2006 by Tylers-mum

[Brook]

I have read up that verbal and body tics are common in ASD but that Tourettes is also a co-morbid. How you tell them both apart?, I do not know but it may be worth mentioning to your son's Pead at his next appointment, just to put your mind at ease!

 

Thanks Tylers-mum.

I dont know how you tell them apart either.

 

I also read about the 'vocal & motor' tics being present, he does yell out unexpectedly but I've put that

down to something triggering him off.

I will mention it to his paed but his next appointment isn't until another year , I think I'll

get it bought forward.

 

I am not trying to connect this, but a family member was recently dx with tourettes, but I'm trying to

look into all possibilities of 'why' he is doing this, and follow the right route whatever that may be,

and keep an open mind, it could well be tourettes, but also it could be to do with ASD, but I haven't

found much on 'tics' with ASD.

 

Thanks

 

Brook

[oracle]

Brook a tic is something that you have no control over - does he have any control over this? It sounds as if he does. Both David and Matthew have what I consider to be facial stims. They both distort their eyes, nose, ears, sometimes I fear that Matthew will end up looking like Dumbo the elephant. Again like your son they have to be quite ritualistic when they are doing this. They both manipulate their face and so I don't see this as a tic - maybe I am wrong? I actually have tics at the moment involuntary spasms in my lips, hands arms etc etc and I really do not have any control over these sometimes jerking movements and I can't stop them. As David has got older he tells me that his tics drive him mad. He knows that he is doing it but can't stop himself.

 

Again both David and Matthew have vocal stims and at the moment Matthew has a quite wonderful nasal stim - don't ask They are also both quite gifted at throat clearing again

 

To my knowledge this is all part and parcel of ASD and although tics can be a sign of Tourettes which can also go hand in hand with ASD I think that they would have to be involuntary tics as opposed to manufactured. Does this make any sense?

 

Carole

[Brook]

Hi Carole,

 

yes, your post made perfect sense to me.

 

I have tried asking him about it and he said 'I just keep doing it', I asked why he pulls his cheeks

downward and he said 'because my eyes stick to my skin'

 

As you say a tic is involuntary, but it's trying to get to the

bottom of whether it's a tic or stim.

 

Most of his stims are very obvious and involve his whole body and he makes a certain sound through

gritted teeth and are very noticeable in busy places and places that stimulate him alot.

 

Any suggestions as to how to find out? I know I'm probably asking the impossible here.

 

Just to add, he uses alot of facial muscles whilst doing this 'tic' or 'stim'.

 

I did read something about tics and stims by Donna Williams, but I cant find it now, if anyone

comes across it I would be greatful for the link.

 

Thanks

 

Brook

[Brook]

I found the Donna Williams link I was talking about.

 

Tourette's Tics and OCD should not be mistaken for stims:

 

http://www.donnawilliams.net/tourettesandstims.0.html?&L=0

 

Brook

[Stephanie]

I've seen my son occasionally do the one where he pulls kind of a long face mouth open etc - usually when he feels he is being watched (in the school play etc) sometimes accompanied with fast blinking. He used to do a stim where he licked his fingers and ran them down each side of his nose but that stopped ... I am hoping that the other tics will too.

[Jessica's_mum]

Hi

 

I have two boys with tic disorders, one of them also has ocd and hyperacusis a couple of people have even mentioned aspergers.

 

Ts can be dignosed with as, ocd and many other comorbid conditions its certainly not unusual for a child with as to also have ts.

 

In order for a diagnosis of ts the tic have to have been present for over 12 months and also be at least one vocal tic and multiple motor tics.

 

One of the boys is more effected than the other and his tics come in a long list but here is an example of what he has going on right now, blinking, rolling his eyes, neck twisting, head jerking, shrugging his shoulders and making a huh sound, his tics started with gulping and blinking at the age of 4 which is a very common way for them to start and then begin to involve more muscles such as shoulders, arms, head, legs etc.. He is now 9

 

The boys tics can be worse after school or when nervous or excited but tend to follow a waxing and waning pattern.

 

I think the best thing you could do is keep a diary of the tics and also mention them at the next appointment so they have a record of it

 

Can I also recommend this link to you so that you will be able to chat to other parents whos children have ts and also there are a few on the board whos children have aspergers with ts.

 

My boys have just been referred to cahms and after the initial appointment we now go on the waiting list for diagnosis of ts

 

Hope this helps a little and will look out for you on the other board if you post

 

http://tourettesyndrome.forumup.co.uk/inde...ourettesyndrome

[Brook]

Hi Jessica's mum,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with me.

Keeping a diary of tics is a great suggestion and one I will definitely do, I wouldn't have thought

of that, it certainly will help when we next go to the paed, I know how difficult it is to remember

when things started etc... This will also show if there seems to be a pattern or not.

 

Thanks for the link also.

 

All the best for your CAMHS appointment.

 

Brook

[rainbow queen]

hi brook

 

they are looking into this with my nearly 5 year old as well.

they have noticed things regarding his eyes /blinking and shaking ,he twitchs his neck and makes repeative movements of flapping his ear ect.....

also makes lots of odd noises too.

rocks his head side to side on his bed at night,makes funny movements with his neck and grimaces his face when he is concentrating on something.

hes been juddering since a baby -my nick name for him was "the judder man" of that advert -remember it?

 

back then of course i didnt know of any of this-so thought it was normal

[bluejean-genie]

Hi,

My son was dx'd with TS when he was 8. His tics were done because of an urge which didn't subside until the tic was carried out (like the build up to a sneeze). They're also suggestible, if someone mentions eye blinking he will suddenly start to do it, he has no control over it.

The tics wax and wane eg throat clearing starts very quietly and builds up till very loud over time and then starts to reduce again.

Here are some of the tics he has had :

Rapid eye blinking , Eye winking (one eye), Nose twitching, Eye rolling (you only saw the white and he'd do it, even though it hurt him), the Sniffing tic became so bad it would take his breath away (he would sob as nothing seemed to relieve it, thankfully it only lasted a number of hours) at other times the sniffing wouldn't be this bad although it would become very loud before it waned. 'Nose twitching' which was just like a rabbit would do. There are many more tics that have occurred over the past 6 years.

I was advised to quietly video Nat's tics for the TS specialist to look at and I also did a chart of his tics using a scale of 1-10 (10 being really bad) This proved his tics were on a cycle.

His latest tic looks like he's 'jaw rolling' despite nothing in his mouth.

My son also has intrusive thoughts which his specialist said, was part of his TS symptoms.

I hope this is of some help .

[Jessica's_mum]

Daniel actually said to me a few weeks ago when his tics where bad, that its like I need to do it and know I'll feel better for a bit after I have done it but then I feel guilty because someone may have seen me, I can understand this feeling as I also had tics as a child but not to the extent of Daniels.

 

We have also video'd the tics to take with us to the appointment when it comes through, I showed the video to a lady whos son also has ts and she said theres no mistaking that for anything else as hes the double of her son. Videoing is a very good idea along with the diary/list of tics.

[noogsy]

hi my wee boy has a facial tic.he has asd and adhd.he has a blink he grimaces and he has a squeek...i think louis tic gets worse when he is stressed or upset.if somthing is bothering him...im blessed i think cos my wee boy is not agressive he is sweet articulate and very bright....love noogsy

[Brook]

WoW, what can I say, apart from thank you so much for all your replies,

they have certainly given me some starting points.

 

I'm really amazed sometimes that people really take the time to try and help you out.

And I'm really glad they do.

 

Thanks all for sharing your advice and experiences.

 

Brook

[call me jaded]

I noticed my son's shoulder shrugs get worse and have increased his fishoil which has helped. Definitely seasonal for him - linked to the trees coming into leaf.