justamom Report post Posted May 13, 2006 Hi all, Keegan has had a difficult week at school,(posted on Tuesday) well to cut a very long story he was late for school yesterday morning and as a result he forgot his school planner(homework book in my day), which means that every teacher that he saw in the day would tick his card for equipment issues and after 5 ticks he would get a dention... The school say he needs to learn alot for organisation, yeah right, if they can do it then they are miracle workers - thats his biggest difficulty organisation - hence the books being forgotten. He came home upset - difficult day - received lunch time dention for passing a pencil a girl in his class - she dropped the pencil and the teacher accused him of throwing it at her... He had to write out 150 lines - I must not mess around in Mr Txxxxxxxxx PSHE lesson, now considering that this is a child with writing difficulties who the OT has suggested that he will have to use a Lab Top shortly... Was the 150 lines good practise or plan right mean??? Be honest as to what you think? Secondly he received an after school dention for his planner - ok he will have to do it - but they teacher has told Keegan that if his behaviour does not improve then he will be on individual report....seems to me that this teacher does not not know anything about AS??? Justamom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted May 13, 2006 No, writing out lines is NOT a suitable punishment for a child who has writting difficulties! Absolutely not. Especialy if he has fine motor control problems or is dyslexic to the point they are talking about a laptop for him. I would suggest you ask the school to ensure that he does not get given this as a punishment in the future. As for the planner, if he has difficulties with organising his equipment because of his ASD then the school should be allowing for this. It is not likely to make it better if they clamp down so hard on him for it. It maybe standard practice to punish pupils in this was but his ASD means he is not a standard pupil and therefore, 'reasonable adjustments' need to be made. In this case a few reminders over say a fortnight (forget it 3 or 4 days out of 10 and then...sort of thing) before any punishment is given. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zemanski Report post Posted May 13, 2006 Com responds dramatically to these sort of sanctions because he perceives them as unfair and he is right - personal organisation difficulties are part and parcel of AS and he should be being encouraged to manage them but never punished for them. punishments for things a child is struggling with knock self-esteem which causes anxiety which makes it more difficult to concentrate on the organisation which makes it more likely he will fail....... AS kids rarely if ever respond positively to sanctions - they don't work, they cause challenging behaviour and they are unnecessary. Com is no longer allowed to be given detentions by anyone for anything because he became so anxious about them that he couldn't function. To him they are a signal of failure and he cannot tolerate failure. If the school want to set a child with AS off on an anxiety spiral this is exactly how to do it. you may find talking to the LEA advisor/specialist/team for autism may help, they may be able to explain the problem to the school - in my experience once they've started using sanctions it is almost impossible to make them see they aren't appropriate without outside support. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lizzie Report post Posted May 13, 2006 Hi Justamom, I really feel for you and Keegan, I know how frustating this must be for you, K had similar problems at his last school, he would come home with detentions for writing (quote)like a five year old!! He is almost 12 now but he has ASD and writing is just one area he has difficulty with!! He also got detentions for being late on numerous occasions, even though we had an arrangement with senco, so that K could arrive late due to his difficulties with crowded places!! I had to contact school loads of times about K not getting the help he needs and in the end it turned out that the biggest majority of Ks teachers didnt know he had AS and thought he was just awkward and unruly!!! I think you need to get angry with them, find out if Keegans teachers are aware of him having AS and how he is affected by it, like me, you might find that very few of the teachers know of Keegans difficulties. I wish I could give you more advice. Hope you get things sorted soon. Lizziexxx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oracle Report post Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) Replying as a 'Mom' here. K would not be doing the lines if he were my son but I may well be issuing some of my own to the Teacher on the lines of ' Please remember that K is autistic, which is a disability' 150 times I agree with everything that everyone else has said but I would really be underlining to this Teacher that as part of the disability the remembering to take tihngs 'is' a BIG issue as are the orginisational skills. If a child in a Wheel Chair kept forgetting to take the break off before they moved their chair would they be punished for this? 'If' a punishment was in order then the disability should have been kept in mind when it was dished out sorry but this has made my blood boil. Oracle Edited May 13, 2006 by oracle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LKS Report post Posted May 13, 2006 justamom <'> do the teachers have a pupil profile for K. This is a very simple sheet outlining his most obvious problems and how they can help. The specialist teacher for autism helped me put one together for ds and I also used some ideas from Phasmid. Saying that though it is b****y obvious that some teachers have never read it. At the recent parents evening I took a copy of the profile for all of the teachers we were having trouble with. I asked them if they had seen it and read it and if there was anything they weren't clear on. I then asked them to sign to say they had seen it. ( I don't know whose idea this was, wasn't mine though) Things have settled down again now but ds will never receive a detention for lack of organisation or poor handwriting. Do they really think K will have this punishment and then become miraculously organised, as others have said where is their strategy to help him become more organised. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ets Report post Posted May 13, 2006 'If' a punishment was in order then the disability should have been kept in mind when it was dished out oracle has made an important point here. have a look at this link - http://www.clsdirect.org.uk/legalhelp/leaf...ction=9〈=en , point number 9, have a read of the first three paragraphs and the accompanying 4 bullet points. imho i think your son's punishment was unfair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zemanski Report post Posted May 13, 2006 this gives the standard rules for the application of the behaviour policy of the school aand most schools ask parents to sign a home/school agreement saying they will abide by it. When I got mine I went straight to the senco and she assured me that it would be applied flexibly to take account of Com's needs and I actually annotated it before I signed it to that effect. however, when Com's teachers (mainly his form tutor) started applying it there was no flexibility and when I complained I was told that this is the policy and it is applied to all children in exactly the same way. I was told this in writing and also that they would make no adjustments as it would be unfair on other children. The disability rights commission were horrified and quite ready to support us taking action against the school but the threat and a long letter to the governors was enough to get the school to comply and make the adjustments based on advice from the LEA ASC specialist. We've had the same problem with exclusions but they finally seem to have got the message - took a while though and several pretty heavy meetings Zemanski Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ets Report post Posted May 13, 2006 we had some problems with our dd's school so we wouldn#t sign the home-school agreement. the home-school agreement is mentioned further down the page on this link http://www.clsdirect.org.uk/legalhelp/leaf...tion=11〈=en , a home-school agreement has no *legal force*. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) Hi guys, You are all so helpful and thanks for your replies... I appreciate your support. Oracel - My blood is boiling too and i am not accepting this NO WAY.. You see i have been told that i should cut the apron strings let him get on with things. I have taken a step back and done just that and its now caused endless trouble. Unfortunately my son is not "normal" not easy for any parent to admit but i have got my head around it and have moved on and am gonna help him out as much as i can, and no matter what i will stick up for him. He certainly cant stick up for himself... The school are going to get a very peed off mother on the phone on monday, i did ring on friday but nobody was available. typical that everyone was busy.. I want a meeting with the teacher and SENCO. I need to stop being so nice and gets some B***s and give them what for... Thanks for the link i will be showing that too hubby because he thinks that this teacher is picking on Keegan and certainly does not understand AS.. Will let you know the outcome. Justamom Edited May 13, 2006 by justamom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flora Report post Posted May 13, 2006 justamom, just read this. How very very dare they???? Giving him lines is absolutely ludicrous and sadistically cruel. And as for the detention.... I wouldn't let him do it. Just tell them he isn't doing it. Write them a letter, reiterating his problems in relation to these two punishments outlining why it is not only unfair it's downright cruel. If he hasn't already had the detention, tell them that you do not consent to it. I've had a couple of glasses of wine so not very coherent but really, all of this is totally unacceptable. Lauren Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted May 14, 2006 I've just taken your advice and drafted a letter thanks lauren and i will be sending it in tomorrow no way is he doing the dention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asereht Report post Posted May 14, 2006 Just a mom I am lost for words.I agree with lauren put it in writing. If he was my son NO WAY would he being doing any detention,sorry but I am livid,been there before many many times Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted May 14, 2006 I have drafted the letter to his teacher and taken snippets from Phasmids post to put in the letter because what he said is true if he was a standard NT child then maybe the punishment fits the crime but it does not with my AS son. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Just to let you know I phoned the school for an app today and was fobbed off, dh is so p**sed off its not funny... Is there a time limit to when a teacher should return the call bye because this school never get back to you and its so annoying having to leave a message.... I think that they are hoping that come next week, when they say we can have the app we would have calmed down by then and maybe let things ride. They are having a laugh, we at least i have 1 week to get my argument ready for the teacher and SENCO... When hd gets involved i know the s**t is gonna hit the fan big time.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phasmid Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Phone calls are too easy to dodge (they're teaching/on playground duty/in a meeting etc...). Put your complaint in a letter and give them a time limit in which to respond, say Friday. CC to head/CoG - for information purposes. That ought to get a response. If it doesn't then complain to head/CoG and cc the teacher. That will get a response! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Yeah, good idea Phas thanks!!!! i do that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gladysmay Report post Posted May 15, 2006 Replying as a 'Mom' here. K would not be doing the lines if he were my son but I may well be issuing some of my own to the Teacher on the lines of ' Please remember that K is autistic, which is a disability' 150 times I agree with everything that everyone else has said but I would really be underlining to this Teacher that as part of the disability the remembering to take tihngs 'is' a BIG issue as are the orginisational skills. If a child in a Wheel Chair kept forgetting to take the break off before they moved their chair would they be punished for this? 'If' a punishment was in order then the disability should have been kept in mind when it was dished out sorry but this has made my blood boil. Oracle I agree with all I have seen on this and only wish I a) had a diagnosis when my son was at school and had the support of this forum, your advice is very good and I will now keep it in mind when I have to tackle the college staff in September, so far it is not looking anything like AS friendly? thanks, it brings back to me all the times my son was punished for bad handwriting, the Senco actually produced earlier writing and compared the two to demonstrate to him that he was just putting it all on and then circulated a letter to that effect to all the teaching staff??!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justamom Report post Posted May 15, 2006 How cruel for the SENCO to do that!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
