Excluded

[curra]

Hi,

Some of you may remember my posting from last week but I'll repeat some things since it got lost during the hack attack.

 

My son M (12)was excluded for 3 days after he gave a "headlock" to another boy on the street , near the school. My son admitted it when the other boy told a teacher but he also said that this other boy, X, and a friend insulted him with the F word in the school, and he told another boy who is a friend who said "beat him up". When M was leaving the school X and his friends provoked him with offences and M followed them to ask them why they were acting this way. When he got close to them, one of them tried to stop M from getting close to the other one and M gave him the headlock. X screamed and the 2 of them ran away.

 

Now there are several things that make me feel that this exclusion is unfair and although there's not much I can do now because it was only for 3 days and there wasn't any point in asking the school to revert their decision, the effects that it can have on my son are worrying me. So here I go with the whole story:

 

M has received countless headlocks in the playground and no action has ever been taken. He wants to be popular and is easily influenced by other boys who have told him that to be like them he has to hate X. He is normally not a disruptive of challenging boy, on the contrary. X has been taunting my son for a long time, even calling him a "psycho" in front of teachers who didn't do anything. M has been bullied on a regular basis and the school has never taken strict measures against the bullies. Some months ago, X and his friend waited for M on the street and kicked him. I took pictures of his bruises and showed it to the school but the boys were not excluded, in fact I think that no action was taken at all because it took place on the street and they denied it. So it looks like there are double standards, one for children who know how to lie and another one for my son who has a disability and contradicts himself because of the stress he feels in such situations.

 

When I went to collect him last week, I was informed of the decision to exclude him and had a meeting with 3 members of staff and then M was called in. They asked me first whether I agreed to M being there so that they can "support me during the exclusion". I said yes because I thought they were going to give him support (How stupid can I be??? ). They grilled him with questions because he contradicted himself, they told him off because he grinned (he can't help it when he's nervous). He was confronted and accused of being a liar. M said "I have Asperger's syndrome" and one of the staff raised her voice and said "That is no excuse for bad behaviour!"They asked him whether he understood why he was being excluded. M said he believed the punishment was "sadistic" and they became even more angry. I asked them to stop the questioning because I could see that M was under stress, so they stopped. I also agree that AS is no excuse, but I was left with a feeling that this exclusion was unfair.

 

I wrote a letter with copies to LEA and governors saying why I think that it's unfair, mainly because I think that M's exclusion is due to his disability and the school could have taken better measures, such as tackling the bullying effectively and separating my son from the group that has been taunting and using him. In a phone conversation, the assistant head said to me that X's father, who is a police officer, wished to make charges agaisnt my son and that it was better to exclude him to prevent this (those were not her words exactly, but I understood it that way). There's no way anybody can press charges against my son for a stupid headlock on the street who no adult witnessed, or am I wrong?

 

Strangely enough, M's classmates knew immediately that he has been excluded and X has been telling everyone that M is not going to come back. So it seems that things are going to get worse for my poor son when he goes back to school. The bullies will be triumphant, he will be segregated from the playground making him feel terrible. At first I agreed that he is not allowed to go to the payground because the groups of boys get him into trouble as he is very naive and does what they tell him, but why is it M that has to suffer because the school can't control discipline?

 

So now my question is what else can I do? There will be a meeting after half term when he reintegrates to school and I'm already dreading it. I've been feeling terrible with all this, very low and helpless.

Any advice?

 

Thanks <'>

Curra

[phasmid]

Memory refreshed!

 

Quick response...

 

3 members of staff to question 1 child is well OTT. HE will have felt intimidated in this situation. One person, normally the head should have questioned him - with you present. Where is the witness statement and where is the minutes of the meeting that took place when you were there? The decision to exclude should have been made by the head and head alone irrispective of the father of the other child and what he had to say or his job....who runs the school the head or this parent?

 

Yes it is/was double standards bearing in mind the other incidents previous to this. Were there any independent ADULT witnesses to this incident or is it all being taken as read on the word of the victim? Standard response to this situation in the schools here is there needs to be an indepedent witness or else it is a case of one's word against the others.

[LKS]

curra <'> sorry can't really offer any advice. you are right it is double standards Reminds me of my son in yr 5 who was a victim of bullying. The heads answer, to call ds into his office every day to discuss his behaviour. Punishment for the other chilldren nil. One teachers comment some children attract this sort of behaviour from other children If the adults think like this we are all a very long way from getting children to understand. I'm so sorry your son was subjected to that grilling by members of staff. You must have felt so helpless

[curra]

Phasmid,

 

There were no adult witnesses in either case, it's just the children' words against each other.

I have not received copy of the minutes of the meeting.

 

Curra

[phasmid]

There is a correct procedure to follow here. Ask for a copy of the schools behaviour and dicsipline policy. If they haven't followed it to the letter argue like hell. I think I also pointed you to the IPSEA site where they have advice sheets on exclusion: IPSEA

[curra]

curra <'> sorry can't really offer any advice. you are right it is double standards Reminds me of my son in yr 5 who was a victim of bullying. The heads answer, to call ds into his office every day to discuss his behaviour. Punishment for the other chilldren nil. One teachers comment some children attract this sort of behaviour from other children If the adults think like this we are all a very long way from getting children to understand. I'm so sorry your son was subjected to that grilling by members of staff. You must have felt so helpless

 

 

LKS

 

I'm sorry your son went through all that in year 5, and from the head! It makes my blood boil to see the way vulnerable children are treated!

 

Curra

[curra]

Today M was readmitted to school after a long meeting discussing the letter that I sent them, in which I stated my reasons why I think this exclusion was not justified. The school will put more support and supervision in place (there's no statement yet), but then (here comes the trick) they want a police officer to speak to M and "explain things" to him ( I imagine it would be a reprimand or something like it) . IMO they are asking this only because the other boy's father is a PC and he wrote to the school that he expects the school to involve the police in this situation. I just can't grasp this, don't the police have anything better to do than to get involved because a 12 year old gave another boy a "headlock" which no adult witnessed? They were very insisting and said that it would be better if I accept that a policeman spoke to M than if there are charges. So, if I'm seeing it right, I'm being threatened by another parent to accept it or else he'll press charges?? I told them that I do not agree with that and also that it looks like a parent is ruling the behaviour policy in the school, which they denied.

 

This man knows that my son has AS, and his "little angel" calls my son a "psycho" and teases him constantly, I wonder why.

 

Does anybody know what happens if he presses charges against my son? I guess I would have to get legal advice. Is there any rule concerning children with ASD? Should I contact the GP or somebody else? I really don't know what to do about these things. I need some advice please!

 

Curra

[annie]

<'> Curra <'>

 

So, if I'm seeing it right, I'm being threatened by another parent to accept it or else he'll press charges?? I told them that I do not agree with that and also that it looks like a parent is ruling the behaviour policy in the school, which they denied.

 

I would totally agree with you I'd be getting my son out of the school as fast as I could. Rules are rules I know, but it sounds like the pc's little darling enjoys provoking your son because he can get away with it.

 

'The school are going to put in more support and supervision' - Why now?? If they understood your son, it should have already been in place.

 

My son's old school decided to bring their Community Link Officer (policewoman) into meetings in the hope that it would frighten him, it didn't work.

 

 

You could also give IPSEA a call and see what they suggest.

 

Annie

xx

[Flora]

Curra, I totally agree with annie.

 

Stick to your guns about not agreeing for the police talking to your son; if they want to press charges then let them, perhaps you could press a counter charge for discriminative behavour from this other boy towards your son.

 

I'm so sorry the school are taking this stance, I totally agree with you that they are allowing another parent to dictate policy.

 

I hope you can get some help from IPSEA.

 

Lauren XX

[PinkSapphireAngel]

Hun that is unbelievable!!!

 

Who the hell do these people think they are??

 

You need to get as many people involved as possible, LEA, MP, press maybe, IPSEA everyone!

 

I am so sorry so many of us and our kids are going through this when we have more than enough to deal with.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

That's outrageous getting the police involved. There are very strict rules as to police ettiquete. The father of the other kid is blatantly being a ###### idiot! The other kid needs a good talking to about the way he treats a child with a mental disability. I sure as hell wouldn't allow a police officer to speak to your son. It quite simply isn't a police matter. If the father insists, I'd tell him you wish to speak to his superiors as this is clearly becoming a personal matter.

 

Best of luck.

 

C.

[Suze]

no.................this is a joke........they want a police officer to talk to your son???............don,t let them do this..........it,s complete hypocrisy on their part..........and get those [photos out of your sons bruised leg..........think this parent needs a quick reminder of his sons actions too!!........best of luck suzex

[pumpkinpie]

What action are the school taking regarding the child in question calling your son names because he has a disability?

Is the police officer also going to talk to him and explain the rules of harrassment?

I would want to know their reply asap!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PinkSapphireAngel]

Been thinking about this since I read your post.

I think you need to get in first, I have heard of police officers talking to schools who do not deal with bullying properly (or fairly)

I would see who you can speak to at your local police station and as mentioned use the photos of the injuries.

 

I am so angry for you!!

[curra]

Just talked to the LEA. They say that it could be a good idea to have a word first with the police officer and explain them my concerns and the bullying, which they take very seriously, and perhaps they might even say that there's no need to talk to my son as the whole thing is clearly gone out of proportion.

 

Thanks everyone for your support!

 

Curra

[curra]

Pumpkinpie,

 

What action are the school taking regarding the child in question calling your son names because he has a disability?

Is the police officer also going to talk to him and explain the rules of harrassment?

I would want to know their reply asap!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I asked them the first question and there was no concrete answer. Speaks for itself, doesn't it?

 

If I speak to the police officer I'll ask that same question...

 

The school is a disappointment. And it's supposed to be a very caring school!

 

C.

[phasmid]

What the school are doing is a load of tosh! If this father wants the police to be involved he had/has the option of reporting it to the local station himself. So, why is he asking the school to do this instead of doing it himself? I think because he knows if he were to report it the likelihood is that it will go nowhere, he hopes that with the school dealing with it means that it will be given more weight. It sounds to me that the school, for whatever reason, is happy to play along with this - why? It looks to me (and Mrs P) that the school are making you accept this as a pre-condition of allowing M to return, they are not allowed to do this. They have already administered a punishment by excluding M in our opinion and, the school or the father (or both) should have reported when it happened for any action to be taken by the police at the time (I say this having been in a situation -more than once - where I have reported an incident that occurred after school to both them AND the police at the same time). This seems to be 1 parent throwing his weight around and the school going along with it despite their protests to the contrary.

 

If I were you I would visit the local station tomorrow and explain everything to the duty Sergeant explaining to them about the ASD and the implications of it and ask them what action they will take IF the matter is reported to them, I think this is a pretty big if as well!!! Then I would be getting in touch directly with my LEA exclusion/inclusion officer and asking them what they think of the schools actions over this post exclusion! AND, as Annie has already suggested...PHONE IPSEA!

[gladysmay]

this churns me up to see, I am so pleased you are able to stand your ground and I hope it goes okay. My sons primary school started ringing the police when he started running out of school and they 'hunted' the streets for him, I guess looking back it could be wise to have him found rather than out there alone and vulnerable but the reality was he was in 'harms way' at the school being bullied all day, when they turned up they showed him the handcuffs?!? they had a friendly chat with him, he was about 9 or 10, the cynical me thinks they rang the police to frighten us into cooperation. it sounds like all kind of rights have been walked over, how about dda? ipsea are excellent.

[Bagpuss]

Curra,

 

I am appalled by this. If you know the name of this lad's father, you need to go to the local police station, and ask for the Duty Inspector. Outline the circumstances to him/her and make an official complaint. If he feels that he should be pressing charges, then thats what he should be doing, not dictating to the school what he wants to see happen. I would not speak to the lad's father in person, but take it above his head. This sounds like an abuse of power to me, and should not be tolerated. The school should be disgusted with themselves for allowing this to happen. They cannot have a parent dictating what should/shouldn't happen, or else............its no better than blackmail.

[curra]

The parents have already logged the incident at the police station, as I was told yesterday at the school. My son has been readmitted. They did not present talking to a police officer as a condition to his return, but as a matter of the school's behaviour policy and they said that I have "no other choice". I argued that they are in fact bowing to these parents' demands. I did not agree with the exclusion for such a minor incident, let alone involving the police. I have already spoken to the LEA SEN-officer who advised me to talk to the police first. It does look like backmail and/or abuse of power to me too. My son is so distressed, he told me that this other boy has an adult escort next to him all the time now, as if he needed special protection. My son has never had any supervision at breaks and he has been the victim of bullies for 2 years.

I'll try to contact IPSEA.

 

Thank you All for your thoughts!! <'>

 

Curra

[gladysmay]

I still dont get the schools argument? if they didnt involve the police themselves how is it part of their behaviour policy, I know supermarkets have things like always involving the police if shoplifting occurs but cant schools manage behaviour without involving police? they seem to be taking it out of context, it is easy to provoke a certain reaction as we know and this leaves kids with asd's vulnerable to all sorts of accusations, after all it is not about 'intent', a lot of kids will do something to another kids because they know it will upset them, n/t behaviour is therefore disciplined in that way to discourage this but this is a different matter.

 

I suppose that is the bigger question and whether you can get the school to accept that their behavour policy toward austisc kids is non-effective is debatable.

 

I do hope you get through to IPSEA okay and get some immediate support.:)

[curra]

Gladysmay,

 

I've found in teachernet, (exclusion guidelines, part 2) the following about police involvement when there has been a criminal offence:

 

Schools should consider whether or not to inform the police where such a criminal offence has taken place. They should also consider whether or not to inform other agencies, e.g. Youth Offending Teams, social workers, etc.

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/b...usion/guidance/

 

But this was a minor incident which was deliberately provoked by bullying a child with a disability.!!

 

C.

[gladysmay]

sounds like they should have discretion to me. I wonder if you spoke to MIND they would have any advice, I spoke to them my son was at primar, he still did not have a diagnosis but I managed to get the school to provide a meltdown room for him, the argument was on the grounds that his behaviour was about his own needs to be understood and helped. Now that it has got as far as the police, is there some kind of advocacy in your area you can bring on board, like NHS use PALS, we now have an adovocate, I think NAS has lists of possible advocacy organisations. I would also get legl advice.

 

Other agencies - you need to be aware how much and what information is going to be shared as a result of this action. I found out quite belatedly what info was being held on my kids and some of it was not only wrong but had a certain bias.

Edited June 6, 2006 by gladysmay

[curra]

I thought of adding this update, it might help someone in a similar situation:

 

Well, 2 weeks have passed and I still have not heard from the police. I couldn't reach IPSEA so I contacted the LEA. Following their advice I wrote a letter to the head saying that before the police talk to my son I expect to speak with an officer who knows about AS. No reply yet.

 

What have been the results of all this? The exclusion achieved nothing IMO.

- M still doesn't think he did anything wrong

- he hates going to school more than ever and has lost interest in learning

- the teasing and bullying against him goes on

- he is defiant and angry at home (he takes it all on poor Mum)

- he has been sick with nerves and anxiety

- he thinks it's all right to fight if you don't get caught

 

 

Curra

[curra]

Here's another and final update to this thread.

The police did come in the end because the other parents pressed charges saying that M had threatened their son with a knife, which is absolute rubbish, that was only the other kid's word, - I still can't understand how the police accepted charges without any evidence; anyway I was pleased that the PC who came wasn't wearing a uniform and not driving a police car. We had first a long conversation on the phone and he agreed to speak to M in a sensitive way. I also complained to the PC about the other parent, at least it made me feel better to do so.

 

Tha bad news is that M developed more school anxiety , paranoid thoughts and phobias after all this.

 

Can't wait for the summer holiday after this awful ordeal !

 

Curra