lindy-lou Report post Posted July 31, 2006 http://www.mumszone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=14016 can you read this thread,please come and back me up because im shaking with rage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiley Report post Posted July 31, 2006 (edited) Hun - it's just coming up 'Please log in' etc..... can you copy n paste?? Edited July 31, 2006 by smileymab Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jb1964 Report post Posted July 31, 2006 Hun - it's just coming up 'Please log in' etc..... can you copy n paste?? Same for me. Jb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindy-lou Report post Posted July 31, 2006 its too long to copy and paste but basically someone is ranting about a child with autism not behaving in public,she says she has nothing personal against this child but so obviously does,il copy and paste some of it... Can someone tell me. Im sorry if i sound thick. If a kid, say about 5 or 6 has autism, what does this mean? characteristics, symptoms etc..... .... ok ive read that.........can i ask a question tho and im going tosound really nsty.....if a kid had autism.....and they are, nasty to other kids, wanting all the time, isnt it bettre to tr and NOT spoil them and teach them manners or would you just go along with it?...... basically someone i know has a boy who is about 6 or 7, npt sure, but she keeps him off school for no reason, he pushed my daughter and i got told, he cant help it, im sorry but he should!! sorry if im nasty but this kid gets away with anythinhg, they were sitting in a beer garden on saturday, and becuase he couldhave coke in a glass bottle instead of a glass ?2.60 for the bottle, 80p for a glass, he kicked off. went mental swearing and allsorts so she bought him it. Surely she should try explain and not give in. Maybe im wrong.....dunno.. hate it tho when holly spends time with him she picksw things up and i try not to tell her off for it but its hard.... i know i keep trying to tell here but if this girl doesnt tell her boy that its bad then holly just seems to think it is right.....am i making sense? its actually hollys dads gfriend. so she is there every weekend for two and abit days.......... i tried that at the weekend, he just keeps saying, he cant help it he cant help it! well yeah, im not saying that this girls son has NOTHING wrong with him but i dont feel that is an excuse to be bad mannered etc....he has to learn sometime thathe cant get his own way forever. she is, even tho i dont want to sound like my mother, making a rod for her own back as it were excuse me but i dont have anything personally about this kid. i just feel taht yes, ok he maybe cant be punished, hate that word, like a normal child but he still shouldnt be able to get away with pushing kids 3 years younger than him over etc. __________________ ok, you have a child with autism ok, and this child who lets say this example, he is 7, he wals over and pushes over a 3 y ear old for no reason. .....he shouts and sewears at his mum for no reason. you wouldnt just sit there would you......thats what im getting at. they are basically her comments up til now and my blood is at boiling point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted July 31, 2006 (edited) Oo er...sorry, but I have to say that in one way I agree with this woman: it is important that our kids do have boundaries, and are told it's not right to push, etc. Obviously, I haven't read the whole thing, so apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick! Bid Edited July 31, 2006 by bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Report post Posted July 31, 2006 (edited) It's hard I know, but this woman is talking from 1) a pov to "protect" her child and 2) without understanding anything at all about autism. You could say she shouldn't comment then if she doesn't understand & you'd be right. Then again I have been known to open my mouth only long enough to swap feet and have been glad of someone calmly pointing out to me what an idiot I have been. If you are going to reply to her posts, you need to try and approach in a calm manner if you can, do not let her upset you. She is probably not trying to be awful or upset anyone, she just doesn't understand. She appears to be most frustrated about the parents saying "he can't help it" about this autistic child and cannot understand why he "cannot help it." You may wish to use an analogy I have found useful in the past............. If you saw a child in a wheelchair and they were unable to walk, you would accept that this as part of their disability & would not expect the parents to tell this child off for being unable to walk. Autism is a complex disability that cannot be easily explained in a few words, but when this child does some of the things that he does, it probably IS down to his disability and he really CANNOT help it. His parents will have coping strategies and approaches that they have learnt over the years and will be applying them the best they can. Much like the parents of a child in a wheelchair will have become used to helping her overcome the physical obstacles in her path. I could not possibly explain autism in a few simple lines or sentences, but if you would like to know more I suggest you visit the NAS website. In the meantime, in much the same way you would assist the parents of a child in a wheelchair / the child herself, perhaps you could talk to the parents of this boy to see if there are ways you could help them or just understand their difficulties a little better. Sorry, started off giving you an analogy and ended up proposing a whole post. Tell me to bog off if you like, but the wheelchair analogy has helped me a LOT in the past, really seems to make people think a little bit more. Edited July 31, 2006 by Jill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullet Report post Posted July 31, 2006 I think it's a question of guiding the child as to what's appropriate behaviour, understanding they are not being difficult or naughty, but that in order to help them teaching them why some actions may hurt themselves or others. And also looking out for them as well, making sure that they do not fall prey to people presuming they are automatically at fault, when they may have been provoked on occassions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindy-lou Report post Posted July 31, 2006 ok thanks i have handled it pretty well i think,its difficult to explain it to you without you being able to read the whole thread,i absolutley agree with our children needing boundaries and discipline but this woman is coming across as the kid just needs a good slap,its people like that that make daily living a struggle,ignorance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucas Report post Posted July 31, 2006 One thing I always keep in mind when reading any person's account of something that an Autistic person did that they didn't like: most people are frankly incapable of observing Autistics accurately. They like to indulge in magical thinking where there are certain kinds of people that do random things for random reasons, often those people have communication problems making it impossible for them to speak out for themselves, which is why people can say whatever they like about them without fear of being publicly corrected. Those people only have this lady's word for it, it could have actually happened entirely different to how she is saying. Autistics are not crazy(though there can be crazy Autistic people just as their can be crazy NT people), so we don't do things for no reason. Often we have very good but obscure reasons to NTs. It's why I dislike people saying Autism causes certain behaviours or that an Autistic person can't help doing something because they're Autistic; it may be in their defense but it totally dismisses any good reason they have for doing something. It's because some of us, especially when we're children, are unable to explain those reasons that people often talk about us with fictional memories. The boy throwing a tantrum over wanting expensive coke from a bottle instead of cheap coke from a glass(though it sounds like it's the same brand, just one is in a bottle therefore it's expensive) sounds like he had the foresight to know he could have sensory issues with a glass of fizzy drink(like I do) but attempts at communicating it were ignored then he had to get angry to get the point across. If he has pushed a little girl over, there has to be a reason for it which this mother is conveniently leaving out. She should proberly be taking her daughter's lead: she says she has been copying some of the boy's behaviour. Wether it may be good or bad behaviour, she is copying it, meaning she is relating to the lad where her mom isn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullet Report post Posted July 31, 2006 I know with Tom that he always does things for a reason, it's just a question of finding what that reason is as he can't tell me. Eg he always used to get really upset when the tv went off and I presumed he was just sulking because he couldn't watch it. But then I realised he was upset if I switched it off with no warning before the programme had finished. Now I wave "bye-bye" (literally) at the tv when the credits are on to give him plenty of warning and he's much happier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brook Report post Posted July 31, 2006 (edited) __________________ ok, you have a child with autism ok, and this child who lets say this example, he is 7, he wals over and pushes over a 3 y ear old for no reason. .....he shouts and sewears at his mum for no reason. you wouldnt just sit there would you......thats what im getting at. they are basically her comments up til now and my blood is at boiling point. In my opinion there is ALWAYS a reason, it may not be apparent to the general onlooker, ie.. sensory, lack of understanding a situation, over stimulated etc.. etc... but I do agree that a child should be shown appropriate responses, as many many times alot of us have said that onlookers just see the surface behaviour as being naughty and the parents are blamed for lack of discipline. It's a difficult situation especially when this lady obviously and openly admits that she doesn't have alot of understanding of autism, maybe it's time to educate her lindy, but obviously try to keep your cool, I know these things can get us seething but if this lady really doesn't have a clue then she is only going by what she is seeing and not looking any deeper. Good luck Brook Edited July 31, 2006 by Brook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindy-lou Report post Posted July 31, 2006 basically someone i know has a boy who is about 6 or 7, npt sure, but she keeps him off school for no reason, he pushed my daughter and i got told, he cant help it, im sorry but he should!! it is this that has got me so mad,then she is trying to say she didnt say that,she basically wants me to say she is right and that the kid deserves a smack on the bum,and im not going to,ive tried to educate her best i can in a calm manner,im going to leave it now as some people s ignorance will stay with them forever,no matter how much you try and tell them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keyholekate Report post Posted July 31, 2006 It's also the father of her daughter's girlfriends child. May be she's a bit more prickly about his behaviour because of this. ( I hope I got the geneology correct) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindy-lou Report post Posted July 31, 2006 I think it is her daughters fathers step child i got the feeling she started the thread to have a ###### about the mother and the boy,she didnt reckon on me and lizzie coming along!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest flutter Report post Posted July 31, 2006 wel have finally got onto thread i wonder if the woman posting just has the raving hump about what happened, and there is more to it than kids behaviour. If she was soo upset then why did she not confront at the time? or tell said child off self, I think that some awareness may have been put out, but she may be one who neva gets it. The other intersting thing, is that in foundation stages, ( before they change ) there is a devlopment part where childrne have to sort out disagreements themselves, and lots of peeps do do that any how, or could have beent hat the woman was dog tired and did not think it mattered that child did what they did, my mates all accept my dd behviour, as being her, BUT i do tell her off when she behaves unaceptably, well i think she does, they interstingly dont seem to lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elaine Report post Posted July 31, 2006 Hello Lindy-lou I've read the thread you're referring to. To be honest, I agree with her. If a child behaves inappropriately - such as pushing another child over - then it is up to the parent to try to teach their child how to behave. All children need boundaries whether ASD or not. Being the mother of two ASD boys, I know how difficult it can be, but the point that lisa was making is that the mother of the boy should have at least tried to explain appropriate behaviour to him. Elaine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lindy-lou Report post Posted August 1, 2006 I wasnt disputing that fact elaine,im disputing the fact that she said the autistic boy could help his behaviour,i reiterated over and over again that i too believe in boundaries and discipline,what i was trying to say was dont just look at an incident and make a solid conclusion about it,if everyone did that everytime my daughter had an incident then she would have the naughty child label slapped all over her and then what help is that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephanie Report post Posted August 1, 2006 You can make small allowances for the fact your child has an ASD but it shouldn't mean you should let them run riot and get away with murder. They need to be told when they are out of line and clear boundaries need to be set. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puffin Report post Posted August 1, 2006 Having read the whole thread I think that the woman posted the thread to rant about this child's behaviour and seemed to be implying that autism was just and excuse for bad behaviour and that if he really wanted to behave he would - it seemd to be a frustrated rant designed to obtain responses along the lines of autism being a fake illness. What caused it to kick off was when she called him spoilt and said that "i got told, he cant help it, im sorry but he should!!" She also stated in her early posts that because the boy was 6 and her daughter was 3 that he should know better, have better social skills etc. She also complained that his mum kept him off school "for no reason" When other posters began posting their experiences of ASD she rapidly back-tracked and said that she didn't mean what she said. It was a little hard to guage whether her rant was coloured by the fact that the 6 year old was her ex's partner's son and she resented the "special treatment" as she interpreted it. While I agree that ASD children should be given boundaries - her message was that his behaviour is spoilt - some of the things she complained about could equally have been exhausted parents attempting to avoid a public meltdown - for example she complained that the child was obviously spoit/not taught manners when he had a meltdown over wanting a bottle of coke rather than a generic (cheaper) type in a glass - but how many of us have gone along on occaisions with our kids' obsessions just to avoid this type of meltdown. However the thread has been closed now - which is a shame as it was an opportunity to try and educate others about ASD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
