mossgrove

Rabbit I guess what the LEA are doing is stalling in the hope that even if taken to tribunal it would take so long for the wheels to turn that the summer holdays will be upon us. I wish I had the means to shake up the LEA on your behalf. It's plain that the LEA could do something for your child this year and is using the rules to block any progress, which must make it doubly frustrating. In writing the statement, the LEA have, in effect, agreed that you son needs special school provision. All you are asking them to do is bring that provision forward, on the grounds that he is plainly unable to cope with mainstream school any more. The only reason they wouldn't is budgetary. I am so angry on your behalf, all I can advise is to get the best advice possible and go in with all guns blazing! Simon

Given all of the above it seems to me that your LEA are choosing not to do a statement review without any grounds for doing so, other than they want you to go away and stop bothering tem until September. Have you written to formall request a review, of have you been told verbally you can't have one? Simon

Rabbit I am not sure if I explained it well enough. At no point would you send him into school, try to send him into school or tell him he is going. I was talking about saying that he is at the school, but off sick on the strength of the doctors letter, rather than being withdrawn from school. I appreciate that they are different ways of describing the same thing, but one MIGHT qualify you for a statement review and the other definitely won't. Simon

You must be so angry. It shows that the LEA are more interested in their budget than your child. Have you thought about playing them at their own game? If you can find a helpful doctor this might work. 1. Say to the school that you are going to start sending your son full time from Monday. 2. At 9.00 on Monday phone the school and say he is sick. If a doctor can sign him off with stress all the better. 3. Request an immediate statement review! If that fails withdraw him again and try something else. It's petty and underhand, but you didn't start this! Simon

Welcome to all the new members! You will find this forum immensley helpful, espcecially when it comes to dealing with officialdom in all it's forms. The best bit is you no longer need to feel you are coping alone. Simon

We are in the process of asking for an ealry review of statement for out eldest(7, aspergers) with a view to asking for special school provision. So it is new territory for us too. One thing the LEA said off the record which is food for thought is that if we go to the LEA saying that the provisions in the staement are not being met, then we may find action after the staement concerntrates on beefing up the provision in his current setting, whichh may or may not be what you want. If what we want is alternative provision, we need to phrase it such a way as to imply that despite loads of hard work by school and the professionals involved it is now clear that our son has needs that are over and above what can be provided in the mainstream environment. It follows that not all we would write would be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (see my other posts), but it is something to discuss with people in your area who are "In the know" Simon

We believe our eldest son (7, AS) is being bullied in school. One other parent has recently complained about bullying by the same group of children, but the school appear to be sticking to the line that there is no bullying at the school. Are there any rules/guidelines that have to be followed about how complaints of bullying should be dealt with? Simon

I think the LEA are exceeding their powers here. If the placement is not meeting his neeeds then they need to provide a placement at a school that does. Is it worth calling for an early review of his statement so that the placement can be reviewed? Get some good advice and be prepared to threaten them with a tribunal! Simon

Annie This is very worrying indeed. I hope you find him soon. One again we have a situation where a situation is being made far, far worse that it needs to be because the people responsible simply do not understand what is going on. It doesn't seem to me as if inclusion in a mainstream school is the right thing for your child, especially in a school that doen't seem to understand the issues. Please let us know how you get on. Simon.

Sorry this is a bit lengthy, but I felt I needed to write all this down, for may own sake if nobody elses! Our second son (5) has been at an assessment unit three mornings a week for the last 6 weeks or so. He has attended his mainstream primary school in the afternons with 1:1 support. The unit is a joint venture between CAMHS and the LEA, and consists of a classroom envoronment woth up to 4 pupils, where children who are having difficulty integrating into the school environment can be assessed by a teacher, Educational Psychologist, a clinical Psychologist and an expert support worker. Our son has a provisonal doagnosis of Autism which we expect to be conformed at the end of the month. There was a meeting at the unit yesterday involving a clinical psychologist, am Educational Psychologist, his CAMHS support worker, the head of the unit (also a psychologist) and the headmistress and his class teacher from his current primary school.My partner was also in attendance. The gulf in perceptions would be funny if it was not so serious, but it amply illustrates that inclusion is not working in practice. The asessments units initial findings are that our son has severe communication difficulties, does not communicate approprately, scored 98% of normal on intelligence tests but 6% of normal on his ability to process information. He showed no awareness of or interest in any of the other children in the unit, or of the other support workers, did not initiate any interactions and was resistant to even 1:1 working. His almost total lack of concerntration, and inability/unwillingness to accept any form of direction meant that they felt he was effectively unteachable at present, and intensive communication therapy and (possibly) medication would be needed in future if he was going to learn anything at all. The intended to discuss with his consultant, with our consent, concerns that he may have ADHD in addition to Autism. The schools opening position was, are you sure there is anything wrong with him? We don't think he has any problems. Under some fairly agressive/intensive cross examination from the professionals present it became clear what they meant. Bear in mind this is a child who didn't speak at all until he was three, had intensive portage therapy, and still has difficulties. He can only be made to attend at all for 2 hours a day with 1:1 support, does not know the name of a single fellow pupil after 6 months at the school, and covers his face and assumes the foetal position if another child speaks to him. The schools line of reasoning is a little scary but was as follows: In reception class puils are not directed as much as they are in year 1 and beyond, therfore unwillingness to folow direction had not appeared as an issue. Because he was not disruptive and did not affect the other children in the class his behaviour was not an issue. The meltdowns in the playground and at home before and after school were a matter for the parents and not the school. Therfore thay were of the opinion that he was causing them no major problems and couln't see why he didn't start going full time. The meeting continued in a similar way. The professional felt a statement should be applied for straight away with a view to special school provision, the school felt that he should attend full time for at least two terms to enable them to assess more fully, amd then they would consider if it was appropriate to apply for a statement. The pyschologist said he would be out of school within two weeks if he attended school full time as he plainly could not cope. The school said that if we didn't send him full time after half term they would have to start recording it as an unauthorised abscence.each morning. And so it went on. It's worth mentioning that the school is seen as one of the best in the area for children with special needs. I do not believe the school were being deliberately obtuse or difficult. They sinply do not understand the issues involved, and the extent to which autistic children cannot be judged by the same yardsticks as NT children. Until the knowledge base is out there, I really cannot see how inclusion can be made to work, especially as special schools are being closed now in anticipation of these skills being available. Simon

It make me want to howl with frustration when schools don't want to be seen to back down. Why can't they understand we are not playing games but trying to get the best for our children? Simon

LouLou One thing that is worth doing is to go through the statement line by line and change the language used within it. The aim is to find and destroy statements like "Where possible the school will aim to" and replace them with positive statement s like "The school will provide", you also need to be very wary of phrses like "where appropriate" and "will consider". This is going to sound paranoid, but somebody, somewhere is going to try and twist the words in the statement to minimise what is actully provided, so a couple of hours spent thinking defensively will save a lot of heartache in future. To give a real-life example in one statement I know off, exta money was allocated to the school to meet the childs needs, everyone had assumed that this would be in the form of a 1:1 support. Before the LEA intervened, the headmaster had actually got as far as placing the order for the additional playground equipment because he had reached a judgement that a 1:1 support for the child was not needed, so the money would be better spent elsewhere. This was all beacuse the extra provisoon had not specifically been earmarked in the statement. You should also have your statement read bysomeone who is used to reading statements, e.g. someone from a local support group or another parent who has been in the system for longer. They will quickly latch on to things you may have missed. Finally, you may wish to consider writing now to ask for more time for comments, otherwise you may find the statement has been finalised before you have been able to react, it's surprising how quickly the two weeks go by. Simon

I also think inclusion as a concept and inclusion as it works in practice are entirely different things, at least they are in many places. We have a statement for our eldest son which sets out what must be provided. We also have a son who is awaiting asessment and getting limited 1:1 support. There is a new headmistress at the school who has already come out with the following. "Surely it is not reasonable to expect us to devote all these resources to one child" "It is not fair to expect us to devote all of our special needs budget for the reception year to your child" "His teachers are finding him hard to deal with. I don't thinl you can expect them to do any more than they do" "You wouldn't get this kind of help anywhere else" and the veiled threat "If you ask his 1:1 assistant to do any more than she does she might go off sick with stress and then we wouldn't be able to find a replacement" We are essentailly being told that the school cannot meet the statement provision, and it is not reasonable for us to expect them too. LEA's are moving to a model where special needs funding is assessed on the schools size and catchhment area, not on the number of pupils with special needs, special schools up and down the country are being closed on the grounds they are no longer required due the the barnstorming success of inclusion, and (if the Tories get in) all schools will be granted the right to exclude pupils without there being any right of appeal and the future starts to look bleak. Simon

I have every sympathy. I expect we will be at a tribunal too next year as in the opinion of his consultant, his CAMHS complex special needs worker, his portage worker, the Hospital schools service, his assesment unit, and the Educational Psychologist our second son Harry has major issues and would not be able to cope with full time school. His SENCO and class teacher maintain that he is 'absolutely fine' and doing well, and have threatened referall to social services if we don't send him full time. His elder brother got assistance straight away because he is disruptive, while Harry is not. If I remember rightly, this distinction is familar to you! Simon

Everything is crossed here too!

Welcome to the forum! Most importantly of all, you'l find good people here who understand where you are coming from. Simon

Loraine I agree wholeheartedly on the training front. We are having major problems with the head of 'Early Years' at our children's school who has been on a couple of half-day courses, and now feels qualified to lecture us at every available opportunity about our children's needs and how best we should meet them, both at home and in school. Simon

I agree with everyone so far! <rant mode on> Inclusion is not being pushed so hard everywhere because it is the best solution for our children, it is being pushed because it is a cheap alternative to special schools. Special schools are under threat in many areas of the country, and the support in mainstream simply isn't there. I fully understand why many teachers are anti, because they are being asked to deal with behaviours that can be very challenging without any training or support. The lack of expertise/understanding amongst many SENCO's is embarrasing. It may well be that some (but not all) of the children currently being denied places in special schools would do well if proper skills and support were in place, but put bluntly it isn't, and pretending that it is already there doesn't help anyone in the long run. In our son's mainstream school things are going very pear-shaped not because they are not doing the best that they can, but because they simply do not understand children on the spectrum and have no idea what is appropriate and what isn't. We are looking at getting him placed in a specialist unit, but of the two suitable units in out LEA area, one does not expect to have any places for 3 years(!) and the other has no places for the next academic year and isn't sure if and when any places might become available. Meanwhile the government continues to view inclusion as a major success. <rant mode off> I feel better now! Simon

I didn't think local authorities could decline finding once thay had agreed provision in a statement. The statement sets out the requirements, and the Local Authority have a legal obligation to meet them. Certainly worth threatening a tribunal over. Simon

I have no problem with appropriate inclusion, it' the best solution for many children. What winds me up is the curent policy where it seems to be decided in advance that inclusion in mainstream is the way to go, before considering the child's individual needs. Simon

It is a very big concern. Both main political parties, are preoccupied with the 'freedom' of schools to exclude children and thus 'protect' everyone else at the school. The flaw in this argument is that the problems are often caused by inappropriate actions by the schools concerned who do not understand ASD's. All the school will need to do in future is exclude the child and side-step the problem. This is made doubly worrying by the Government being so convinced that mainstreaming children with special needs is a roaring sucess that they feel empowered to reduce special school provision. I think it will lead to many children with special needs dropping out of the education system entirely. Simon

Carole All i can suggest is withdrawing/reintsating the melatonin for a few days at a time to see if the two are linked. Simon

Kerry I completely understand your frustrations! One of the commonest and most frustrating problems can be getting the school to understand that, just because the child is not actively disruptive, it does NOT mean that they are coping. Out eldest (7) was extremely disruptive from day 1 and, to be fair, support has been forthcoming. Our second son (5, also onthe spectrum) withdraws into himself at school then melts down on his return. These meltdowns do not happen when he does not go to school, nor do we have half an hour of tantrums inthe morning when it is not a school day. Common sense would say that school is having this effect. His teacher cheefully informs us that it is 'an issue for the parents and not the school'. It is especialy important that you keep a record of behaviour outside of the school environment as well, as it sounds likethe school are not going to be very supportive. Good luck! Simon

I suppose it's down to the sheer weight of the thing, especially if it is being sent by email. Simon

Clair Essentially you write a short letter to the LEA requesting a stautory assessment. I expect Nellie will be along in a minute with the definitive word on the issue! Simon