Being too kind

[Bagpuss]

Eldest dd is becoming increasingly "giving" to other people. Unsure if it's due to AS, or not. She told us during tea last night that the school have just been given some new play equipment for playtimes. DD had picked a skateboard, but then went on to say she didn't actually get to have a go. When I asked why, she said lots of children were asking for a go, and she didn't want to be mean, so she let them. Unfortunately this resulted in her not having a go at all. I tried to explain that it was kind of her to let them, but maybe she should of had a go first, or limited the amount of people.......found it hard to put into words TBH She has also begun offering her food to everyone....be it biscuit, sweets, fruit.....she will ask everyone present if they want a bite etc, and seems to do it religiously now. We had problems with her giving her toys away to friends, and again, I find it really hard to deal with......how do you explain that fine line between being kind and but not being TOO kind....if you get what I mean?

Edited March 7, 2007 by Bagpuss

[Clare63]

What a lovely kind girl. But how on earth do you explain being taking advantage of, that I am not sure My DS is forever giving kids at school money, they tell him they'll give it back but never do, its one of his "things" to always have money in his pocket, but giving him a couple of quid a day is money we can ill afford. I told him to only give it to people he knew very well and only then if they really needed it such as a friend who had to buy lunch because they forget theirs, because I would like to think that at the end of the day if the same happened for my son they would help him out. Sorry I have not been much help but will be interested to read other suggestions.

Clare x <'>

[rach04]

me too ds gave away his expensive chunky pencils for his dyspraxia to a girl that has no need for these sort of pencils infront of the teacher!!!! he is also forever giving away his pack up as well

[baddad]

Hi Bagpuss -

 

 

 

Yes, I think this probably is part of her AS...

 

In the same way that our kids struggle to identify 'rights and wrongs' of situations (and get crucified because of it ) When they DO 'get' something there is usually very little room for grey areas... For most kids, once they understand that something they do can have an effect on others, the last thing they will want to do is upset them. In that sense, in psychological terms many of our kids (and adults come to that) tend to be 'overcontrolled', and to be far more accommodating of other peoples needs that they do understand (and often to the detriment of their own), than most NT's using 'fuzzy logic' would ever consider...

 

In simple terms, the black white approach to thinking used by most autistic people precludes the kind of self justification, denial, projection and qualification that other people use: something either 'is' or it 'isn't.

 

That doesn't make them saints - they're just as capable of doing something deliberately 'nasty' when you upset/get on the wrong side of them... but (assuming the conceptual understanding is there regarding that particular act) the one thing they won't be doing is making excuses about it!

 

One thing I think autistic adults often struggle with is that feeling of being 'let down' by other people, because their own priciples are so 'set'. Again, it doesn't make them saints - and their lives would undoubtedly be much easier if they didn't have such rigid rules/self-regulations - but it does make them quite dependable, and - sadly - in many ways, very vulnerable to exploitation.

 

 

 

Nice to get the opportunity to say all that, BTW, so thankyou! We get a lot of posts highlighting the 'negatives' of ASD/NT interaction, and it's good to have one offering the other perspective... seems to me a nice 'middle ground' (not too much NT fuzzy logic, but a little less of the rigid thinking too) would make the world a better place for all concerned

 

 

 

L&P

 

BD

[jlp]

My son is similar - last year on my birthday he went to his money box and gave me �10 in my card from him (I sneaked it back later but as he doesn't count it he wouldn't know), chuffed at the surprise sweet gesture I really praised him.

 

Now though he will try and give his savings away - to friends at birthdays and at school if they have a collection for poor children or similar (I remember him once emptying his box and saying with satisfaction 'there, that will sort them out!') I realised that maybe I shouldn't have given such praise the first time he gave me money.

 

I had to stop him giving �20 to his best friend. His best friend asks for things of G's quite often - things G really likes, he's just given him his favorite Star Wars toy - and I have to stop him. G gets quite cross with me.

 

It's difficult to find the balance - I'm trying to explain by saying that there are rules such as �5 for a birthday party (which I will suppy) OR a present and that another rule is that friends shouldn't really ask for things (but tempering this so that he doesn't go off it should his friend ask again!)

 

It's quite complicated really and can change (say I'd give more money or a larger pressie to a close friend or family member) so no wonder he has trouble understanding but I'm hoping 'the rules' about giving will help.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks for the replies Eldest dd sticks so rigidly to what she perceives to be "rules" that it makes us wary of advising her to behave in a certain way.....if we told her not to give food etc away, it would stop, immediately, but then she would refuse to even share her sweets with friends etc....that's why we are finding it so tricky to deal with. That huge grey area...... But by the same token, we feel she is taken advantage of some times.....even if it's not intentional.

 

A few weeks ago I saw her taking a part for her Nintendo DS to school. When I asked her why she was taking it, she explained that one of her friends had lost this part, and her other friend has told dd to give her one of hers, because she had more than one. She didn't question this at all, and had I not actually seen her taking it, I'd of been non the wiser. She seemed confused when I tried to explain that they cost money, and that her friends parents need to buy her one if she needs one. I also got the impression that because her friend had told her to do it, it never occurred to dd to check with us.

 

We also had another incident recently when I went to collect her and her friend H who she was having for tea from school. I stood in the playground, until there were no more parents left, and then went looking for dd. I had to get home really quickly because our youngest dd gets transport, and was due back very soon. When I went into her classroom she was lent over a book writing, with two friends H & S, close by laughing and chatting to each other. I asked what she was doing, and she said writing out spellings for S into S's book. I questioned why she was doing this, and she explained that S had been off ill, and had asked her to do it. I told S that dd would give her the spellings tomorrow, and that it would be better if S wrote her own spellings out, not dd. Again, dd looked bewildered, and just didn't comprehend the situation. I also explained that youngest dd was due back, and we had to go. S was complaining that it would only give her one night to learn her spellings and then she may fail test........ What really irked me, was that while dd was writing up S's spellings for her, S was stood chatting quite happily to H...allowing dd to do her work for her

Edited March 7, 2007 by Bagpuss

[brooke]

Your girl sounds so lovely bagpuss. It must be very hard seeing her being taken advantage of this way especially as she just wants to be kind. Have you thought about having a word with her teacher maybe they could keep an eye on her make sure she isnt giving her lunch away etc. I couldnt belive when you said she was sat doing her friends work thats not on really.

Take care.

Brooke

[oxgirl]

Yes, this is a really tricky one, Bagpuss.

 

I think our kids are very susceptible to suggestion and can be taken advantage of. It's like BD said, they see things so black and white that they can't seem to be flexible according to the situation. I'm always having to try and get my lad to see that if the girl sitting next to him says something, it doesn't mean he should necessarily take it as gospel, because she could have made a mistake or could even be saying it out of malice (although I don't suggest this to him!) His view is that if someone tells him something then it must be true and he acts accordingly and his own judgement doesn't seem to come into it. When he was in primary school there was a phase when a couple of boys would tell him to do something, like fill someone's plimsoles with water, and he would just do it, without questioning it, he couldn't seem to bring his own opinion into play to decide for himself whether he should do it or not, he would just do it. It's almost like he's so used to people telling him what to do that he does things without questioning them or thinking for himself first.

 

I know what you mean about trying to explain to them though, because, like you say, if you tell her not to do something, then she'll just take it literally and then NEVER do it. It's exasperating really, isn't it!

 

~ Mel ~

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Brooke and Mel <'>

[butterfingersbimbo]

aw what a sweetie!!!

 

this is true of el too and its a difficult one like you say. i have not come up with any solution, i just try to muddle through when something happens.....tbh though i can be a right mug when it comes to helping people, i wish i could be tougher than i am but i find it very hard to say no.....i have been taken advantage of many a time and dont seem to learn my lesson. so its not anything thats improved with age and i'm not even on the spectrum!

[phoebe]

My DS is like this with his money also - concerns me really it slips through his hands like water. He will like to buy things for other people, like recently on holiday and grandad gave him spending money - his first thought was to go buy Grandad a present with it - which he did!!

 

Conversely he is not good at sharing really at all??

 

It seems to me that he just enjoys sepnding money no matter what he is spending it on - himself or others, what a worry for the future. It doesn't grow on trees

[badonkadonk]

Hiya Bagpuss,

 

She sounds an awful lot like me and I do think it is an AS thing. I do lack that whole selfishness thing and can't even comprehend doing something bad for my own gain. For example all the times I've asked my mum why all the rich people in the world don't end the famine in Africa and stop people from dying and she says that for some people their own worth and getting what they want and need is, to them, a better way to spend money than to help people in Africa whose problems they aren't responsible for. This is where my brain falls out of my head and the 'but why?' questions start. As I've got older I've learnt to accept that this happens but I still don't understand it, the anxiety and anger I've felt at the world all my life is also subsiding the older I get as I'm beginning to realise that I can't change the whole world and don't want to badly enough. I used to be saving something new every week when I was a child and was outraged by a different injustice everyday. Now my day to day concerns outweigh my will to change the world though I am still a staunch believer in donating to charity and often have to turn off those adverts with the girl with the fake drip in her arm asking for money to help research cancer as I already give away �30 of the �240 a month I get in benefits to other charities. I just have to remind myself that the girl is also the girl from the Petit Filou adverts (the annoying one where her bones are always going strongerer, grrrrr) and that makes me feel slightly better.

 

The only thing you can do is to keep reinforcing the rights and wrongs to her and try to make sure that the way you justify these rules makes sense as much as poss (if that makes sense I'm confusing myself now with all the 'makes'). Try to avoid the 'just because' answers as these will just frustrate and annoy her as they don't explain why not to do something and will just be another example of the weird world of the neurotypicals. The other thing you can do is try not to take advantage yourself as she gets older and I won't for a second imagine that you will as you are already aware of her inability to say no now. The trouble I've had is my parents weren't aware of this and so my life has always been marred slightly by my family's need to take advantage. My brother and sister never did any of the cleaning or tidying up when we were younger because they knew eventually I would do it, even if I'd done it Mon-Thur already and had begged them to do it, crying, because my Dad's a bit of an idiot and would flip his lip if he came home and it wasn't done. (It's the least you can do, we send you to school, support you blah blah....I've never got this, I don't mean to sound unappreciative of all the ways my parents have supported me financially but it's hardly fair for them to have brought me into this world and then make me feel guilty for them only doing what is right for a parent and sending me to school/not chucking me on the streets when I hit 16.) They still do it now, I still clean up after them everyday because my Dad says it's what I should do seen as though they let me sit at home all day (forgetting the fact that I'm at home because I'm not doing so great currently and have been doing a lot worse for the last two years) I know it's only putting the dishwasher on but I just feel so used and like a slave. It's humiliating that he can't be bothered to put the butter away in the morning and that he thinks it is ok to leave it for me to do....they seem to forget I am their daughter as well as the maid.

 

Anyway, I'm getting off track, just don't let her end up like this and you can do that by just being a good parent and just keep on reinforcing things. It will take her a while to learn but the great thing about Aspies is that they never learn the same lesson twice. They have to learn every lesson for sure and that means getting everything wrong at least once, but once learnt then it's alright. The more exposed she becomes to the world (I would encourage her to read newspapers/find out about the injustices now so she can get the anger/frustration at the world out of the way while she's young) the more she will learn that these things happen. It won't be easy and you will probably end up with a very opinionated, very moral, very outraged young girl on your hands for a while but it's the same as anyone gets older and learns with age, I've eventually caught up to understand how you NTs work and why the world exists like it is, doesn't I agree or understand it, but at least I can sleep at night now and not wory why people are killing whales and all that.

 

I hope this helps a little, I'm trying to say don't worry too much just keep on what you're doing, but I got a little 'therapy session' in the middle there I don't talk about my Dad too much, I know I should shop him to the authorities really (the whole slave thing is just a tiny bit of how he bullies me) and get put on a short list to get my own flat but that would mean admitting that my Dad isn't the best Dad in the world and I'm not quite ready to do that yet.

 

Emily

xxx

[Bagpuss]

Thanks again for all the wonderful replies, and the valuable insight too Emily <'> <'>

[Noetic]

How about making a project that involves an A3 or so sheet of paper, and listing categories and examples of things that

A She is encouraged to share regularly (sweets etc, but specify circumstances and set a limit)

B Are OK to be shared if asked (Meals, larger sweets if she is full and not hungry etc.)

C Are a nice idea to share/give away on special occasions (birthdays, when someone has been nice to her, when someone is sad etc.)

D She needs to ask you or a teacher etc. first if it is OK to share

E She should never share (Money, purse etc. - make sure to include a bit of flexibility though, e.g. make sure to nominate people it is OK to share this with, e.g. Teacher, lady at the till etc.)

 

This could start out with the examples you have already experienced, then add a few things you think SHOULD be on there, and as time goes on build it up.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Noetic

[Bagpuss]

Thanks for the imput Noetic...really appreciate it

[Noetic]

Thanks for the imput Noetic...really appreciate it

Let me know if it works... I sometimes get these ideas that really sound like they should work but you never know... they would have worked with me (and in some cases similar things did) though...

[Bagpuss]

Will do, thanks again

[pearl]

We have this problem with J. At high school he always carried mints around, & others would ask him for them. Trivial, but they were taking advantage, I said, its up to you to offer not them to ask.

 

Slightly more worrying is his inability to say no if someone asks him his mobile number. No disasters so far but again, we keep saying, its ok to say you dont give your number out. He can never think fast enough to get himself out of these situations.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Pearl