'Disinterest' in activities

[KarenT]

J started doing guitar lessons at an after-school club just after Feb half term. He enjoyed it but found it hard at times as it was a full hour session, especially without a break after school, and there were 30 children in the group. He quit those lessons after the 'autism-aware' guitar tutor sent him out of the class half way through and made him sit in a classroom alone till time to go home - apart from a cleaner who was vacuuming (natch I wasn't told about this). For the last three weeks he's had 1-1 guitar lesson on a weekend and has enjoyed it more and learned a lot.

 

However... He's really struggling with practice, but I can tell it's not because he doesn't want to. He's keen to come and sit down, get all his stuff out and begin but he just can't maintain. Occasionally he's done an excellent practice and has been thrilled with himself, has also showed Dad what he can play, seems to be getting enjoyment from both the practice and the lessons. I give him loads and loads of praise when he's done well, lots of encouragement etc to no avail. His high self-expectation features here too - he can't bear to make a mistake however kindly it's pointed out to him. But he's quite high at the moment generally (school cocked up again and the effects are taking a long time to subside) and he's just constantly angry and I can't get him to focus at all. He can see for himself that he's winding himself up but doesn't seem able to stop doing it. I admit I'm not as patient about this as I'd like to be but it's incredibly frustrating.

 

I asked J about this a couple of days ago, told him I wanted to help him with his interests but I couldn't tell whether he liked guitar or not so didn't know whether to encourage him or back off. He said that "people with Asperger's' sometimes really, really like doing something, and then something happens and suddenly they hate it and don't want to do it any more", which I thought was rather astute. It explains why we've had similar difficulties getting him to his karate training for months - I've never understood it because he always claims to love it.

 

So, any ideas how to handle this? Do any of you have children with much-loved activities that they struggle to do, however much they want to? Any suggestions for how to help him stay involved? I really don't want to make him quit because I can see, with both guitar and karate, that he gets a lot from them when he DOES do them but can't work out how to keep it going.

 

Karen

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[Bagpuss]

Karen,

 

Sounds as if there is a connection between his disinterest and the difficulty he is experiencing at school. Could be that as he is finding the school day more of a challenge than previously, due to the probs with the 1-1 and safe haven, it's taking alot more out of him, so although he is enjoying guitar and karate, he is struggling to find the extra effort needed. I'm unsure how you tackle it, other than take it at his pace, and wait till he feels more settled and supported, and see if that makes a difference. What about rewards? Could they work? Could also be that although he is enjoying the karate, he isn't enjoying the environment, and could be experiencing sensory sensitivities. Could he have guitar lessons less often for the time being, so he has abit of break, but doesn't pack it in completely?

 

Take care <'>

[KarenT]

What about rewards? Could they work? Could also be that although he is enjoying the karate, he isn't enjoying the environment, and could be experiencing sensory sensitivities. Could he have guitar lessons less often for the time being, so he has abit of break, but doesn't pack it in completely?

Hi Baggy

 

We've got reward systems coming out of our ears but none seem to make any difference in this case. I think perfectionism plays a part, particularly with the guitar - he expects things to be easy and panics when they aren't, by which time the 'sudden change' he mentioned has happened and he can't do it any more because he's stressed himself out. We've agreed to split his practice into two 5-minute slots rather than one 10-minute one, which seems to be helping. I've done all I can environmentally for this but there's a limit to what you can do in a small house. TBH I think his head is so full of Bionicles that nothing much will help, but that's a whole other issue.

 

The karate instructor is fab, I'm in regular email contact with him and he's really gone out of his way to accommodate J by reducing group sizes and separating him from undesirable influences. He's had little chats with J too and done a lot to encourage him. Again, with karate J is beginning to recognise when he's too stressed to cope with it and while I think that's excellent progress for J it does mean that he tends to miss out on training more than he'd like.

 

Actually, I'm surprised that there haven't been more posts on this, I can't believe that all your kids go off to their activities all jolly and enthusiastic! Hey, maybe it's just us - I've never been unique before!!

 

Karen

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[llisa32]

Hiya, I've had the same problem with J and 'activities'...he really wanted to do Karate at one of the large sports centres about a year and half ago...he went a couple of times and then no amount of persuasion of the fact we'd just paid out in advance plus bought uniform etc was gonna get him back there. I think for that one it was the class size and he founf it quite difficult to pick up the words/instrcutions being used. It was a shame cos he didn't stop showing us his 'moves' at home so he obs wanted to learn it.

 

School started offering it as an 'extra' last year and they fit it into one of the free periods on a friday, this seems to suit him much better..the class size is smaller, it's not after school cos try as i might I can't entice him into any after school club, even when his classmates are in them. We still have the odd week of him saying he doesn't want to go but horrible as it may sound I remind him we've paid in advance, and we'll review at the end of term - then quickly change the subject!

 

I know he enjoys it, although he gets really cross if anyone distracts him when he's concentrating. The karate teacher is contactable by email which is useful for me to get updates. For a boy a recomend karate if u can find the right class size/environment, it seems to be something that they feel puts them on even keel with their peers and he's now dead chuffed that he's ready for a grading.

[Bard]

Karen Actually, I'm surprised that there haven't been more posts on this, I can't believe that all your kids go off to their activities all jolly and enthusiastic! Hey, maybe it's just us - I've never been unique before!!

x

 

 

Well, maybe some of ours don't go to activities! B always heads out enthusiastically, but it often goes pear-shaped.

He manages Scouts, but they know about AS, time out and the need for structure. Some sessions aren't good for him, but they issue a timetable for the half terms's activities. Then I can see if there are sessions that B really couldn't handle. I've had to pick him up twice, and he was red-carded for a session.

The other activities he does are with me attending. Fortunately, one of his passions is history/archaeology which is one of my special areas. It's suprising how many workshops are happy to have a primary school teacher who can follow orders gatecrash!

He's done a couple of Kayaking courses on the local lake, and enjoyed them.

But he's not really one for 'activities' more a solitary wilderness type, digging, exploring and camping, who loves his mum.

Edited June 2, 2007 by Bard

[baddad]

Hi karen -

 

As you've pointed out, he seems to have a fairly good grasp of things

 

people with Asperger's' sometimes really, really like doing something, and then something happens and suddenly they hate it and don't want to do it any more", which I thought was rather astute

 

and I think how he's feeling applies to most people at some point or other (but maybe at a heightened level for people on the spectrum sometimes?). While it's hard for you to see him pulling back from something he generally seems to love, it probably just is a case of him taking (and needing to take) some 'time out', rather than a reaction to something specific, IYKWIM.

While many kids learn the basics of guitar in formal lessons, it also seems to be an instrument that lends itself to that sort of 'moody teenager alone in his room' kind of learning equally well... Some kids listen to music, read books, compute, 'game', others pick up a guitar and a tabs book and strum a few chords.

 

Ben's 'given up' on far more activities than he's continued, and even the real love (golf) falls out of favour from time to time when he feels he's not getting there quickly enough, but he does go back to it and new interests come up to replace the stuff he really does drop.

 

L&P

 

BD

[KarenT]

While many kids learn the basics of guitar in formal lessons, it also seems to be an instrument that lends itself to that sort of 'moody teenager alone in his room' kind of learning equally well... Some kids listen to music, read books, compute, 'game', others pick up a guitar and a tabs book and strum a few chords.

I'll be honest here and say that's one of the reasons I'd like him to continue with guitar if he can. Although I'm not musical at all myself, everyone I know who is seems to take great pleasure in being able to 'lose themselves' in playing and I figured it could be a useful addition to J's Calm Box, which he's very keen on using. Getting the basics is the hard part though, and as you've said with Ben, often for our kids it just doesn't happen quickly enough.

 

I'm relieved (sort of!) that there are others with this problem out there. It does seem to me that it should be the case for many of our children, given that formal activities are, for so many, the only way they can safely learn social skills and maybe make friends. I do understand, Bard, that a lot of us have tried activities for our kids and backed out when they've seemed to be struggling but my dilemma was how to tell? Perhaps for some of us it's more obvious than for others. I think J's own explanation has made things clearer for me, that he does want to do these things but sometimes something clicks and for that occasion he can't hack it any more, but as long as I know that I can continue to encourage him.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Karen

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[Bard]

I do understand, Bard, that a lot of us have tried activities for our kids and backed out when they've seemed to be struggling but my dilemma was how to tell?

 

In B's case it's easy to tell. If you're lucky, he yells and shouts a bit first. Then BANG!

I'm pleased that your son doesn't try to lay waste to all around him when he starts to struggle in a social situation. When he was little, I could tuck him under my arm, smile and leave.

Now he's several inches taller, that's not an option, but he is at least obedient when ordered by me or my mum due to strict training! I think you've had some excellent answers from very perceptive people, and it was a good point to make. I think I was being a little too subjective, sorry.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Bard

[KarenT]

I'm pleased that your son doesn't try to lay waste to all around him when he starts to struggle in a social situation.

Oh but he does, Bard, and that's where the dilemma is - the fact that he *appears* to be avoiding it at all costs but later, when he's calm again, he'll talk about how much he enjoys it and is even upset at having missed out. And believe me, there have been many tantrums and breakages as a result of his avoidance.

 

Here's today's example (sorry if I'm waffling)...

 

After previous attempts to resolve this, we've now agreed to have two 5-minute guitar practices in a day instead of one 10-minute one. J's suggestion. This morning he did his practice very well, accepted his mistakes and just tried again, enjoyed himself. I gave loads of praise, as I always do, and he got a token in his reward jar. We ended by talking about how well he'd done, how much easier and enjoyable practice is when he accepts and does it without arguing, all of which he acknowledged happily. We arranged to do a second five minutes later today.

 

So... he was playing in the garden and I went out to give a pre-warning that we would do guitar practice in ten minutes. He agreed. I reminded him to finish his game then I'd come for him, again he agreed. When I went out he started rolling on the ground, pretending to be asleep, obviously avoiding. I offered a reward for his practice, he could help with a computer job (always a good incentive, tried and tested many times), said I'd leave him for another minute then come back for practice. I did and he still refused. He said he wanted to play Frisbee, I said I would play after guitar practice. He came inside, argued about the chair arrangement (exactly the same as it always is for guitar practice) and stormed to his room in temper. We hadn't even got started.

 

After a few minutes I went up to tell him that we could play Frisbee as soon as he'd done his practice. He hid behind the curtains with a book and wouldn't come out. I went back downstairs and left him to it. After a short while he came down asking if he could play on the computer - I thought about it and said he could once he'd done the guitar practice, as we'd arranged. He got angry again and stormed back to his room. I went up with laundry about ten minutes later and he was reading happily - he even let me kiss him on the cheek - but still no intention of coming down to practice.

 

So, now he's done himself out of playing Frisbee and playing on the computer, but he STILL insists he enjoys learning how to play the guitar. I can't let him have those things unless I back down and allow the reward without the effort, and it makes me feel cruel and mean. The poor kid has no friends, he wants to play Frisbee and if I go out now and play with him there'll be even less chance that he'll cooperate with guitar, or homework, or anything else I try to get him to do on other occasions. This is what frustrates me - the contradiction of him giving the visible impression that he hates the activity balanced with the verbal insistence that he loves it, and the position it places me in with regard to discipline and structure.

 

Sorry to go on about this. It is such a huge issue around here, I literally can't get him to cooperate with anything, whether he likes the thing or not. Everything that happens here has to be on his terms or we lose hours coaxing and persuading,and even then there are no guarantees. He never learns from sanctions or withdrawal of privilege and God knows I've tried that for years. I just hoped there'd be others out there who'd faced the same thing and could give me some tips, other than the obvious ones I seem to have been doing forever.

 

Karen

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[Bard]

<'> <'> Karen <'> <'>

[oxgirl]

Karen, I just wondered if it could be that he's not rebelling against the actual practice but maybe against being told to do it, if you see what I mean. Just wondered if he would be more willing to do it if it was himself telling him to. It's just that I know my lad hates me telling him to do something, he tells me I'm nagging him, even when I'm not!! Would he react better maybe if he wrote himself a diary and plotted onto it when he decides he wants to practice, or maybe sets a little alarm on his watch to beep when he's arranged with himself to do it and then it's like he's telling himself to do it and he hasn't got anyone to fight against, if you see what I mean.

 

I just know from working with my lad, that me giving encouragement can end up with him feeling like I'm trying to pressure him and pursuade him into doing something and then he'll automatically dig his heels in against my 'nagging' and then, like you, I end up feeling like I'm the bad guy trying to force him to do somethig against his will, even if it's something he wants to do. Sometimes handing the decision-making and control over to him can work.

 

Best of luck with it. <'>

 

~ Mel ~

Edited June 3, 2007 by oxgirl

[KarenT]

Thanks for that, Mel, I really appreciate your reply.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head - J only ever wants to do things on his terms and at his decision, so it would indeed be much easier if I could convince him that everything I want him to do is his own choice. However, if left to his own devices J would never practice at anything - he's only practiced karate moves twice at home in two years - so that's not likely. I've tried several times with diaries, log books etc but J simply hates to write and I know he won't do that. We do have a job chart system which has worked well until recent weeks, whereby I stick tickets to a chart showing him what has to be done at certain times of the day. I think I'll suggest to him that we look together at suitable times for his guitar practice and make new tickets for that, so that he can decide exactly when he does it. Trouble is, the job system has fallen apart lately so he might not take to that either.

 

J had actually been doing incredibly well until recently and I think all this has fallen apart because of a school ######-up with his lunchtime 1-1 and his safe haven, which they withdrew without notifying anybody (least of all, from what I can gather, J himself). His behaviour has understandably deteriorated since then and I'm struggling to get him back on track. We have some good strategies which he's enthusiastic about and has worked very well with, but when it all falls back this far it feels like I'm beginning all over again and I don't know where to start.

 

Thanks for your advice, will see how we get on.

 

Karen

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[KarenT]

Hi

 

Just thought I'd give you a bit of an update on this.

 

After a bit of trial and error I found out that J actually didn't like me watching him while he practiced guitar. I managed to get him to get his stuff out and he played beautifully on his own, did a full 15 mins by himself and was chuffed to bits. So I guess he really does like the guitar, as I'd expected, but it's other factors that stop him practicing. His new tutor is lovely and did a few 1-1 sessions with him to get him up to speed, and he joined the proper class on Saturday for the first time. He admitted to being nervous to begin with but settled down quickly. Interestingly, for all the doesn't like me watching when he practices, after he'd done some himself yesterday he actually wanted to put on a special Father's Day performance for dh, which was lovely. We typed up a ticket on the computer, set out seats and J waited in the kitchen till I announced him, then he played Twinkle Twinkle all the way through (twice) and took a massive bow while we applauded. He loved it, said he wants to do that once a month now and invite Gran and Grandad. Keeping my fingers crossed, but we might just have cracked it.

 

As for karate, J's instructor should be stuffed and mounted as a fine example of a wonderful person with the right attitude to children with special needs. J's been struggling more and more to get to training and actually got there on Thursday before admitting he couldn't cope and asking to go home. Tried again on Saturday with the same result. So I went along to speak with the instructor and guess what? He's offered to stay behind after all the others have gone and train him 1-1 for half an hour each week. He even suggested J wait for ten minutes to make sure everyone's gone before he turns up, so he doesn't have to cope with the crowd. How ace is that?!

 

Best of all, instead of losing control and going into meltdown when he's been upset about these things, in the last week J's actually been able to explain to me why these things are difficult for him - after two years of karate he could eventually tell me that an hour of training was too much for him to cope with. No wonder he hasn't been managing, he's probably been worrying whether he'd do it from walking in the door. Still, now we know the problems we can do something about them. Onwards and upwards, yet again.

 

Thanks for your support and suggestions on this.

 

Karen

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[Bagpuss]

Karen, that's smashing, long may it continue <'>

[jb1964]

He said that "people with Asperger's' sometimes really, really like doing something, and then something happens and suddenly they hate it and don't want to do it any more", which I thought was rather astute.

 

Hi Karen,

 

I can definitely vouch for my daughter feeling exactly how you have written. She has tried many many different clubs and activities and I whenever I've been present at an activity that she's stopped I have seen something happen or heard something said that has been the definite point where she never attends again - although she has never been able to explain the reason why she doesn't want to go - but there was definitely a marker in her swimming lessons and her karate to why she stopped going.

 

Other groups she has tried where I haven't been there - I'll never know the reason but I can guarantee there was something that resulted in her never ever wanting to go again even though the week before she would have been obsessive about wanting to do it and looking forward to the next lesson etc.

 

Take care,

Jb