Not a good night

[Tally]

It's not been a good night at work.

 

I won't sleep until I've got it out of my system. You don't actually have to read it!

 

I've been training 2 new starters. They both seem quite good, which is unusual, but it's still hard to be with people all the time and have to keep an eye on what they're doing. There are other people on my department, but it feels like I have been dumped with most of the work in training them. I don't know if I really have or if I just notice it more than the others.

 

Last night it was just me and one of them. I shall call him Simon. I find Simon really annoying on a personal level, even though there's nothing wrong with his work. He asks strange questions like, "what is your star sign?" or, "where did you go on honeymoon?" "what was your married name?" "would you ever get married again?" Someone's obviously told him I am divorced, which I don't really mind, but I don't really feel a great burning desire to discuss it with him.

 

He has befriended a guy who is really horrible to everyone. I shall call him Lee. Simon hated Lee at first because he was being particularly horrible to me on Simon's 1st night, but now he follows him around like a lost puppy, it's very sad to see. Lee has obviously got to know my ex, because he has suddenly started coming out with certain words and phrases that my ex used to say to and about me. These things are quite hateful to be saying about someone unless you feel quite strongly about them. So I don't really feel comfortable about working with someone who is being told all these hateful, completely untrue, things about me. There isn't anything I can do about it, but it is bound to affect Simon's opinion of me eventually.

 

Simon said on his first day that he wanted me to tell him if he did anything wrong, so he could put it right. I told him I was glad he said that, because some people get really upset if you show them things they are doing wrong, so I was pleased to know he would be OK about it. So I do, in as nice a way as possible. I would say try to explain how it should be done rather than saying, "you are doing it wrong." But the thing is, he is not OK about it at all. He is extremely nervous that he will fail his trial period. When I explained that you have to do something pretty bad to get the sack, like go sick all the time, he was worried what would happen if he genuinely broke his arm!

 

Last night I was so sick of all the weird questions, I decided it was time he worked by himself. It is his 3rd week, so he shouldn't need constant supervision by now anyway. He was stacking up some items for another department onto two separate cages. One started to collapse. He caught it, but it was still falling. I went to help him, but I could see it was going to fall anyway. I told him he needed to step aside and let it fall, and we would have to start again. I started to pick it up off the floor when the other cage collapsed as well, only I didn't see because it was behind me. Huge 25kg slabs of cheese fell onto my back, shins and feet. He was so upset I kept saying I was OK, it didn't hurt, because he was driving me mad keep asking. It's ridiculous though, to have to be hurt and then reassure the person who's terrible stacking caused you to get hurt. It's not rocket science to put the heavy, solid lumps of cheese at the bottom, and the lighter, crushable boxes at the top, not when you've been shown every day for over 2 weeks it's not. I didn't complain about it though, or say anything nasty to him about it. Some people made jokes about him trying to kill me, but I think it was obvious that they were jokes. Normally when there is a crashing sound, everyone comes and looks and shouts, "sack the juggler," so he got off fairly lightly really. But it didn't exactly endear me to him.

 

Later on, I found some bread in the wrong place. I wasn't sure if he had put it there or someone else, so I just moved it without saying anything. He saw me doing it and said, "did I put that in the wrong place?"

 

I said, "the 800g one goes here. This one goes up there," because I didn't want to upset him by just saying, "yes, you did it wrong."

 

He said, "well, I'm obviously not as good as you or anyone else who works here."

 

I couldn't be bothered with that kind of melodrama, so I didn't say anything at all. Then a few minutes later he said, "I've liked it so far, but tonight I feel like ####," and stomped off!

 

I left it 10 minutes and then decided I'd better tell my manager, because I assumed he'd gone for good. He did come back though, and I could see he'd been crying! He didn't say anything, so I decided I would not say anything either, because I hadn't done anything wrong. I went and told my manager he'd reappeared.

 

Eventually he asked me what my problem was. I said I didn't have a problem, I wasn't the one who stomped off in a huff. He said, "I didn't stomp off, I just went to the toilet."

 

I realised this wasn't true, because he normally asks my permission to go to the toilet but I said, "then there is no problem."

 

He said I'd been off with him all night he was worried I was cross with him for working slow. Not NOT NOT happy about him using my irritation to fish for compliments I was determined not to compliment him now, so I just said, "it's not that."

 

He then said something about how I make him feel like everything he does is wrong because I never thank him or say it looks good. I said I have been very careful how I explain things, and reminded him that he did ask me to point out everything he does wrong. He went on about wanting thanks and praise and I told him if he wanted a pat on the head every time he did something right, he was in the wrong job, because all you get from management is complaints, if no one says anything, that is the closest you get to thanks. He still wanted me to thank him, and I said I was just a shelf stacker, and it is my job to show him how I do things, if he wants an appraisal he should ask the department manager.

 

We eventually agreed to forget all about it. I'm happy to let this incident go, but I won't forget how he tried to manipulate me for compliments. If his feelings are hurt by me politely explaining the right way to do things, that is his problem, not mine. if that reinforces what he's being told by Lee, who is hearing lies from my ex, there is nothing I can do about it. He said that he was worried about getting things right and he wanted everyone to like him. I said he's doing fine, and all he needs to do is his best, because if he carries on the way he is, that's fine, no one expects him to get everything 100% right yet. Hopefully he will relax now, because I really can't be bothered with such neediness.

 

Thank you. Now I am going to bed. Well, I shall have a hot bath first to soothe my bruises.

[baddad]

Yeah gods - work politics, eh?

Sounds to me like Simon has got some real self esteem/security issues. He's demanding lots of reassurance because it's only that kind of approval that makes him feel okay about himself...

It's really difficult, because he's exactly the kind of person who will follow a stronger personality (like Lee) around, because Lee seems to give him that approval, and the fact that Lee (who from Simon's position in the pecking order looks like the doberman's doobreys) seems to include him in the snide games he plays makes him feel he's on the inside for once.

Of course, the reality is that Lee does exactly the same thing to Simon that he does to everyone else - tucks them up - behind their backs initially, but to their faces if/as he gains confidence that he can get away with it.

There are no easy solutions, because people like Lee are so dependant on putting down other people to feel good about themselves that they can't stop doing it, and people like Simon are so desperate for approval that they'll put up with and actually welcome it...

 

A couple of things I would suggest trying, if you think you can (or it's worth it!):

- Just say something very cutting to Simon, along the lines of 'you must be very unhappy in your own life if the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making snide comments about others'. He will fluster and buster, and huff and puff, but chances are he'll be more cautious about openly undermining you and stick to the 'behind your back' stuff, which you know he's gonna do anyway. People like this hate to be exposed in this way.

- Try when you can to slip in the odd bit of 'nicely done' etc for Lee even if it is patent and uneccessary (and without colluding/reinforcing) now and again, bearing in mind that other people may be telling him all sorts of stuff to make him feel even less confident about his work and his working relationship with you... Try not to think of it as 'pandering' but more as repair work for stuff that other people have messed up.

 

Oh - and watch out for falling cheeses!

 

L&P

 

BD

[Clare63]

Don't know what Simon was told when he started his job, perhaps it was somehting along the lines of "Tally will be training you, so you need to take notice of what she says and she will me you know how you are doing" he might think this to mean, your his first port of call and that he has to impress you to keep his job and sort of see's you as a kind of boss. Maybe he was not "fishing for compliments" but more checking for reassurance, somepeople are like this. Try not to take it personally, if you are training people you are going to get all sorts including those who think they know it all ! I am sure you have come across those. Anyway after almost 3 weeks I think this lad really should be getting on with the job on his own by now, perhpas you could say "your doing fine, your on your own now"

 

As for Lee....ignore him what a waste of space.

 

Hope you managed to chill and finally get some sleep.

 

<'> Clare x x x

[loobylou2]

Hi Tally, hope you're getting some much needed rest. <'> I would say to Simon 'you're doing so well, i think you can manage on your own now, but if you're really stuck come and find me' That wilol give him a bit of confidence to try by himself knowing he has your help if necessary. Would be worth telling your boss that is what you're doing so that he knows the score. As for Lee, just what the others said, a total waste of time and space, try to ignore him if you can. Take care. <'>

[Tally]

A couple of things I would suggest trying, if you think you can (or it's worth it!):

- Just say something very cutting to Simon, along the lines of 'you must be very unhappy in your own life if the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making snide comments about others'. He will fluster and buster, and huff and puff, but chances are he'll be more cautious about openly undermining you and stick to the 'behind your back' stuff, which you know he's gonna do anyway. People like this hate to be exposed in this way.

 

I think you mean Lee . . . Last week I found a cocktail sausage in the freezer. I asked him if it was his. Now everyone calls him Cocktail Sausage Boy. Is that cutting enough?

 

\i'm not sure it helped out working relationship though

Edited February 2, 2008 by Tally

[Clare63]

I think you mean Lee . . . Last week I found a cocktail sausage in the freezer. I asked him if it was his. Now everyone calls him Cocktail Sausage Boy. Is that cutting enough?

 

\i'm not sure it helped out working relationship though

 

Love it....good on you Tally

[baddad]

I think you mean Lee . . . Last week I found a cocktail sausage in the freezer. I asked him if it was his. Now everyone calls him Cocktail Sausage Boy. Is that cutting enough?

 

\i'm not sure it helped out working relationship though

 

Whoops - I did mean lee...

 

Nice comeback, but as you say i expect it's done little for your working relationship

The reason I suggested what i suggested was to emphasise the fact that you've 'got him sussed'... He can shrug off stuff like the above, but letting him know you know what motivates him is much scarier... In a way, it's almost as nasty as what he does, buyt the fundamental difference is he's invited it where you (and others like you) are innocent victims... now getting back to things you find in freezers: you don't sell peanuts, do you?

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

ahh one of those

can give it out but cant take it!!!!

all mouth an and trousers

hope u bit better today

x

[Tally]

Well, the good news is, I am on holiday for 2 weeks now

 

Last night I got to work and Simon apologised again about yesterday. I told him not to worry about it any more, we'd agreed to forget it, and he's already apologised. He asked that, in order to prevent it happening again, will I just tell him if I think he's working too slow? I explained, AGAIN, that I don't think he is working too slow, that no one has a problem with his work, and he should stop worrying about that. He said that he worries a lot and is very insecure, so I said he has nothing to worry about. I think most of his annoying habits are caused by nervous energy, and if he would just relax, he would be a lot easier to get on with. Hopefully he will calm down a bit while I am off.

 

He kept calling me, and I would think he wanted some help, but he would just wave. That's really irritating. I did show him a couple of things he'd done wrong. I was a bit scared to, so I ignored most things. He didn't get upset, but he did completely ignore what I showed him. I've decided there's no point any more, I will just fix it when he's not looking and hope someone else explains while I am off.

 

Lee . . . he will never change. I normally stay out of his way, but he spent the entire lunch hour saying stuff about me, and carried on all night. I kept telling him to get back in his aisle and do some work, but he kept on and on at me. That is what preceeded the Curious Incident of the Sausage in the Night Time. Most people don't take him too seriously. Normally if someone makes a joke, the person is subjected to that joke for ages, but if Lee makes a joke, no one else bothers repeating the joke. So I know that it's not really that bad that he is saying things about me, because everyone just ignores him anyway . . . now if I can actually make myself believe that, it will all be OK!

[baddad]

He kept calling me, and I would think he wanted some help, but he would just wave. That's really irritating.

 

 

It might be irritating for you, but I found it hilarious!!

 

Oh, Petunia, can you see that man on the sailing dingey - he's waving to us...Cooee, cooee

[hev]

oh tally as much as it pains me to agree with bighead i found that hysterical as well ive been sitting here giggling for ages

[Tally]

:wallbash: :wallbash:

 

I had hoped that Simon might have calmed down and settled in a bit while I was off, but he hasn't. He has taken to arriving 15 minutes early for work every day.

 

The other new starter, Craig, told me that Simon and Lee were the best of friends now, and also that Simon wished everyone a happy valentine's day and asked someone for a kiss! Craig had to take a few nights off with "personal problems," and Simon asked him what the problem was

 

When I saw Simon last night he told me I missed out on a valentine's card from him. I said, "oh well, I hear you had a good time anyway, asking everyone for a kiss."

 

He said, "one person is hardly everyone," and he sounded upset, so I said I was only joking which I really was. Later he asked Craig if anyone had been talking about him.

 

A bit later we were working the cheese and I put some back because it wouldn't go out. He went through my stuff and picked out a few things and said they would go out. I said, "put them out then," hoping that he would prove himself wrong, but instead he did put them out, piling them up so high and squeezing them in so that packets of cheese would fall down on customers' heads. At this point I was trying to avoid an argument, so I just rolled my eyes and walked off, knowing that he would get really upset if I rummaged through his stuff and complained he'd not worked it properly.

 

At tea, he asked Craig if he was going out for a cigarette later, and after tea he complained to my colleague Richard that Craig had taken all his breaks and was still going out for a cigarette, and said he was going to complain to management. No one really minds if people take extra breaks, if they are people who work hard the rest of the time, so nothing would come of it anyway.

 

Richard was working the yoghurts and got called away to unload a delivery and asked me if we could finish the yoghurts. I said I had just started something, but Simon and Craig were just about to finish something else, so they could do the yoghurts. Before I saw them, Simon asked Richard if he wanted them to finish his yoghurts, and Richard said that he and I were already going to ask them to do that, and Simon said to Richard, "you don't tell me what to do, you aren't my boss, I might just go and do whatever I want." Simon came out of the warehouse and said to me, "is it OK if we go and finish the yoghurts?" and I said, "yes please." I didn't know about the conversation he'd had with Richard until later, otherwise I would have told him he could do what I was doing if he had a problem with working the yoghurts, because I wasn't particularly enjoying it.

 

A bit later, Richard told me that he'd noticed that the coleslaw and the deli stuff (that come on the same delivery as the yoghurts) were mixed up together, (we are supposed to separate them) and he had mentioned it to Simon who got angry and said he didn't do it, so Richard left it at that. Although it does mean that Simon worked the yoghurts, refused to touch any coleslaw or deli, and watched Craig do it wrong without saying anything Richard only mentioned it to me because he was surprised at Simon's reaction.

 

A little while after that, Simon said to me, "I noticed that the coleslaw and the deli were mixed up." I said, "no you didn't," and he looked a bit confused until I said, "Richard noticed it, didn't he?"

 

He looked a bit flustered and then said, "I don't want to get into trouble for doing it wrong so I thought I better tell you it wasn't me."

 

I said, "if I even noticed it, I would just tell you it was wrong, you would say you didn't do it, and that would be the end of it, just like it was with Richard. If it bothers you that much, go and make a complaint to someone who cares."

 

He said, "I thought you wouldn't like me if you thought I'd done it wrong. I just want people to like me."

 

I said, "yeah well, no one likes a tell-tale," and then I saw Craig (who, unbeknown to me, had overheard the whole conversation from the next aisle) run off and burst out laughing. Simon didn't talk to me after that, which was quite nice. Hopefully it will last!

 

I give up. Yes, he very obviously has self-esteem issues and is extremely insecure, and it would be wrong to take advantage of that. But making other people look bad is not a good way to make people like you. In fact, it is a very good way to make people feel wary of you and not want to tell you anything. Lee has picked up on these issues and realised that this is a great opportunity to make an ally, which is yet another thing that is going to make people wary of Simon, because no one likes Lee because he is horrible to everyone and has a really scary temper.

 

If Simon is going to make every night like last night, I am not going to worry too much about his feelings any more. Before I did not want to hurt his feelings, even though it was difficult not to. When I did so, it was by accident. But it was too stressful to keep up permanently, and he seems to have so little regard for other people, that it does not seem fair that we all have to walk on eggshells around him. If he has had painful experiences in the past, it is probably because people hurt him in response to the way he behaves. Sick, sick, sick of it. Not my problem any more.

[pearl]

Work colleagues, eh?

Don't envy you Tally, but sounds like others are feeling the same as you about him.

 

I used to work with a nightmare of a woman who made the library into an extension of her home, her family would camp out in the seating area EATING FISH & CHIPS! She was same grade as me so I couldnt discipline her, our line managers job shared & she played one off against the other. There was only me who spanned both halves of the week & could see what she was up to. She received constant calls from home & once left mid shift to rescue her sister who was locked out of her car in a supermarket car park 30 MILES AWAY! Whenever management tried to tackle her, she would burst into tears & go off with stress for months on end & I would have to do all her work. I've had some rum colleagues in my time but she is in the top five.

 

The nice thing is, when its over, you can dine out on stories about them

[Tally]

Yes, I'm glad it's not just me. Not that I want everyone to be stressed and annoyed, but it means I am probably not imagining it. That is why I feel OK about giving up trying to get on with him any more.

 

My supervisor has got the measure of him too, so if he starts saying I can't tell him what to do, I will just ask her to tell him what to do instead. He will be all meek and mild with her and try to make out there was no problem in the first place, but she will know.

[pearl]

Thats the spirit

[Tally]

Well, he obviously took what I said to heart, because he reported the other new starter to out supervisor for taking too many breaks

 

She told him she already knew and asked Simon if he thought she was stupid or something

 

He was fairly subdued last night, and hopefully will stay that way. After tonight I don't see him until next Thursday anyway

 

Was interesting to see him with Lee though. Lee just laughs at him continuously. Simon thinks he is joking, but he is not.

 

It's weird though. He told me the other day that he had two dogs, but he told another colleague that he had three dogs, one of which belonged to his mum, but she couldn't take it when she moved to Spain, so he took in her dog. And then he said that his mum is visiting from Spain, but she won't be staying with him because he has dogs and she doesn't like dogs. Why would you lie about how many dogs you have, and whether your mum likes them? What would be the point?

Edited February 21, 2008 by Tally

[Tally]

It just gets worse and worse. I was hoping he was still ignoring me, but unfortunately not.

 

Last night I was told to go and work the yoghurts with him. I asked him what he had done, and when he told me, I said I would go and load up the rest then. I didn't think there was any problem with that, didn't think I had been rude or anything, and he didn't say anything to suggest that I had. I came back with my yoghurts and noticed that some of the cream was really empty, but there was loads out the back. He said he had worked the cream, so I said, "I think you need to have another look at this cream, because there's some of this out the back." I don't think that was rude, I thought that was quite a polite way to say, "you haven't done it properly, do it again."

 

He said that he hadn't worked the cream yet. I said, "oh sorry, I thought you said you'd done the cream," and he said he meant that he had not done the cream, so I said, "OK then, never mind."

 

I thought that would be the end of the matter, but as I walked away, he dropped a box of sticky toffee pudding, and it slid across the floor and hit the backs of my feet. I thought it was an accident, so turned round to him and said, "oh dear," at which he very deliberately kicked a pudding at me and it hit my legs. I said, "do you want to chuck more stuff at me or what?"

 

He said yes, and kicked another one at me! (I suppose I did invite that one.)

 

At this, I decided I was not prepared to work with someone who threw the stock at me, so I went to see the manager. I told him what happened with the box of puddings, and Simon told the manager it was my fault because I was constantly sniping at him and giving him dirty looks. I said I was not, and told him that I deliberately stopped telling him if he did anything wrong because it seemed to upset him so much, and that when I did point something out, I thought very carefully about how to say it because I was so scared of upsetting him, so if he thinks I am constantly sniping, he is way off the mark.

 

Simon told my manager what I said when I asked him what was left to do, and that the cream wasn't done properly, but he changed all the words to make it sound really nasty. I said I did not say that at all, and he admitted that I didn't say exactly that, but that was what he thought I meant. I said you can't throw stock at people just in case they were trying to be nasty, and he said he didn't throw it, he kicked it. I said that doesn't really make any difference, but he said it did because if he had thrown it, it would have hit me above the legs, and because he kicked it, it hit my legs. I said that is still not OK, however you made it hit me, it is not OK.

 

Then Simon complained that whenever he says hello to me, all I say is hello. I asked him what I was supposed to say and he said I should tell him about my day . . . WHAT?

 

Then he complained that he keeps saying hello and waving at me to try to get me to chat to him, but I refuse to chat to him other than to reply hello. SO? At least now I know what the stupid waving is about, but surely a better way to get someone to chat is to ask them a question? This is the first person I've ever met who uses waving to initiate conversation. Next time I am gonna wave back with my middle finger, then complain when it doesn't make him chat to me.

 

Then he complained that when he asks if his work is OK I just tell him it's not my place to say and he should ask a supervisor or manager. I said that I had only started saying it after he asked me so many times if his work was OK, and I realised that when I said it was, it was not the reassurance he was looking for, so I thought he needed to ask for reassurance from a supervisor or manager, and that I was getting a bit sick of his constant demands for reassurance.

 

He said that I have to be nice to him because I am training him. I said no I did not, and I was not training him, I was just showing him how I do things, I have no position of authority or expertise.

 

He kept on and on, complaining about things he had inferred (completely wrongly) from things I said, the way I spoke or looked at him, and I kept saying I did not mean that at all.

 

Then he complained that he wants everyone to like him, but I refuse to like him. I said that I just can't help it, bit I do not like him, but you can't force people to like you. He asked, "why, so I smell or something?"

 

He does smell actually, but I decided not to mention it since he might think that not smelling would solve the problems, and it is actually the least of the problems. I said, "no, I just find you really annoying."

 

He said, "I am not annoying."

 

I said, "I find you really annoying, and a lot of other people do too, so I don't think it is just me."

 

He said, "people must be really two-faced then, because no one else has told me they think I am annoying."

 

I told him that people are two-faced, and that people would prefer not to say they found him annoying because they didn't want to hurt his feelings, and that if he wanted everyone to like him he would have to be two-faced too, because different people like different things, and that I actually found it quite two-faced when he said he hated Lee, but still sat with him and asked his advice on computers every lunch time.

 

And then he brought up the fact that I kicked a box of ham once too, so the manager would have to sack us both because I also kicked some stock. He had already asked several times if he was going to get sacked and the manager said no, he would not be sacked for this, but STILL he was going on about getting sacked, and decided he would try to get me sacked too I suppose. I said I kicked it away from people, and certainly did not deliberately kick it at someone, and that it was THREE WEEKS ago, so if he had a problem with it, he really should have raised it before now.

 

This carried on for quite a while, and I kind of felt a bit sorry for my manager, but eventually we came to the agreement that we would ignore each other unless we had to ask a work-related question, except if it is to do with standards, and then he must ask a manager.

 

After that he hardly spoke to me, and it was much better. It seems that the only way to deal with this is to have a row and call him nasty names until he stops talking to me for a day or two, and when he drives me nuts again, have another go. I can't see what else I can do. I've tried ignoring him, and that just makes him try even harder and get in my face - literally - he has almost tripped me up, or I have almost run him over so many times because he is actually standing in front of me waving. I have tried so hard to get on with him, even after I said I was done with it, I still tried to get on and not upset him. Even now I don't actually want to upset him, I just want him to leave me alone so I can stop stressing about it.

 

I can't believe this has got so complicated. He said he wanted to start again (again) and I said OK, but I regret that now. At the time I couldn't think of a way to say no, and in front of my manager as well. I am so angry that after walking on eggshells and stressing about this for so long, he threw it all back in my face by saying I was saying things I didn't actually say and giving him nasty looks and things. I think that is unforgivable. I don't know whether to tell him or not. I guess it will become apparent in the end anyway.

 

I know I have AS, so obviously getting on with people is not my strongest point, but I have never had problems to this extent with anybody before in my entire life. Part of it probably is my fault, but it can't all be my fault, otherwise I would have this problem with everyone. Every time I speak to him, even the smallest thing, I have been thinking about carefully, so as not to upset him, but he seems to hear it in the worst possible light, whatever I say. I don't know how to put that right.

 

At one point he started taking stock off the stuff we'd already worked. My colleague said to him, "other one," and Simon just said, "oh, silly me," and got on with it. He didn't say it gently or anything, he just said it really bluntly, and Simon didn't blow up at him like he does at me whenever I say anything.

[bid]

It's awful, isn't it, Tally?

 

I find it very difficult that other people can dislike someone, but act perfectly normally with them...I find this almost impossible, and at the moment it's making me feel really bad about myself because I feel I should be able to do it too, but I just can't.

 

I wish I could give some good advice, because I'm really struggling with this sort of thing too at the moment

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

Bidx

[Tally]

I can normally be polite to someone even when I don't like them. Although it might be very obvious what I really feel, no one else has ever thrown sticky toffee puddings at me before. Even polite is not good enough for him, he wants me to like him and I just don't. He makes my skin crawl. I want to hit him, but I am going to stick with hitting cardboard boxes.

[warrenpenalver]

maybe you need to consider protecting yourself now and talking with your manager or HR about whats happening so that you dont have any problems with accusations of harassment or bullying. and make notes of what happens.

[Tally]

I am going to see him in a bit for the first time since the night he threw sticky toffee puddings at me. I am determined to tell him how disgusted I am by his behaviour, and how I don't believe it is out of character (as he claims) because he has kept it up so consistently for so long. I am going to tell him that from now on I am not going to walk on eggshells like I have been, I am going to tell him straight. If he thinks I have been nasty up to this point, he is in for a shock. I am not going to be nasty, I am just going to be upfront, but he thinks I have been nasty, so he will find this even more upsetting.

 

Anyway . . . I have to go now

[warrenpenalver]

please speak to your manager, to protect yourself!!! Someone so irrational and neurotic may well at some stage make a complaint so you need the cover from your manager that you are trying your best to keep things civil and professional.

[bid]

Warren is right, Tally...if you do anything that can be interpreted as unpleasant or aggressive, you could be seen unfairly as part of the problem

 

I would make a note and date of these incidents.

 

Bid <'>

[Tally]

My department manager and supervisor is aware of the situation, and other incidents involving him and other people. My manager suggested that I only talk to him when absolutely necessary to discuss a work-related issue, and that is what I have been doing. I haven't told him any of the things I wanted to say, but I will if he starts at all.

 

One of my colleagues was talking about something on the telly with a character with the same name, and he told him to stop talking about him and threatened him.

 

He told department manager, "you should be doing this," which, although true, was not really the kind of thing you should say to a manager.

 

He was talking to another department manager about his divorce and the department manager said he'd assumed he was gay, and he threatened the manager.

 

My supervisor has to give existing staff some refresher training, and while she had two of my colleagues in the office last night, he walked past twice (the corridor goes nowhere except to the canteen), and eventually burst in and demanded they stop talking about him

 

My department manager and supervisor are aware of all these things between them, and have probably told Personnel about them too, as they want rid of him. But even if they haven't, they could (and would) if I needed them to.

 

Tonight there are 3 of us, so my colleague and I plan to dump him in an aisle by himself, and we will work together on the rest.

[Kathryn]

Tally,

 

Thinking of you tonight, and I hope there are no more incidents. It sounds as though he has a real problem and not just with you!

 

K x

[baddad]

Hi tally

 

Sounds to me like the guy is very mixed up, but also 'playing' you a bit 'cos he thinks he can get away with it... the latter may be something to do with the other guy's influence. I think maybe he tries to make you feel 'guilty' for the things he's feeling, and then plays on that once he's got your sympathy.

Haven't got any real solutions to offer, but I hope you can find a way to resolve things soon.

 

[Suze]

Tally what a dreadful situation for you, hope last night past with no incidents.....suzex

[Tally]

Last night he said to me, "I think it's best if I try to stay out of your way, you obviously have some kid of problem with me."

 

It has taken him SIX WEEKS to work this out????? I haven't exactly been subtle about it. I have said very clearly that I find him extremely annoying, I hate his personality, I do not like working with him.

 

I said, "yes, of course I have a problem with you, I have been walking on eggshells trying not to upset you, I have been so careful about what I say because you got so upset, and then tried saying nothing, but that upset you too. You have made it impossible for me to get it right. I have worked so hard not to upset you and you throw it back in my face and accuse me of sniping at you and giving you dirty looks, you lie about things I have said and ask for me to be sacked. That is a disgusting way to treat someone. You say all your recent behaviour is out of character, but I don't believe a decent human being could keep up this behaviour so consistently, for so long, and I don't understand why they would want to. You are doing a very good impression of a complete ####, so yes, I would like it very much if you would stay out of my way."

 

(Yes, that is word for word, I know because I have been practicing it. I had to edit it down from 8 sides of A4, and take out most of the swearing before I could say it.)

 

He does have a problem, and other people do hate him as well, and have noticed that he seems to have taken particularly badly to me and the other new starter. They think he has some kind of problem with women, and feels threatened by being compared with the other new starter. I don't know about that, but he definitely has a problem and worries way too much. He is terrified they will not take him on after the trial period, and I suspect this has happened to him before, because he says he did a lot of temporary jobs before, and the places he listed are almost constantly recruiting permanent staff. I did feel sorry for him at first and tried really hard not to hurt his feelings, even after I was angry about the way he'd behaved toward me. I don't know how to resolve the problem between us, but I am not feeling guilty about it any more, and I feel much better now I have told him what I think of him.

 

He was very subdued last night, with everyone. I don't know if I have got through to him at all or if he was just plotting his revenge.

 

But he did ask another colleague, "do you like me?"

 

My colleague replied, "you don't bother me."

 

And then he asked, "Would you mind if I went for a poo?"

 

Now I'm just hoping he will eventually feel so awkward he will just leave.

[Karen A]

Tally <'> <'> You need to look after yourself.If other people have a problem with this person too and he has had several short term jobs then you may not be able to help him.If he does have problems himself which he deals with by being difficult with specific other people then it is not your problem <'> Karen.

[Tally]

I had to work on my own with him last night. We had 3 jobs to do, so I set him off on job #1, started job #2, and then we were supposed to do job #3 together, but even though he finished his job with an hour to spare, he never appeared. Never mind.

 

I don't see him until Thursday now

[Karen A]

I hope you have a restful few nights. <'> Karen.

[Tally]

My rota has changed and I will be working with him and one other person tonight.

 

He told my colleague that he can't work with women as they make him horny. He is going to have a big problem as we now have another new starter who is a woman, so there will be two of us

 

I spoke to the Personnel Manager this morning. I didn't realise, but he's been off for 2 weeks and knew nothing about what's been going on. He was going to talk to the Shift manager and supervisor before they left, and get back to me tomorrow morning.

 

The newest new starter is being trained on the other department. I don't know the reasons for this, but it's a relief because it wouldn't be fair to her with the current atmosphere, and I can't take the stress at the moment.

[Suze]

Tally.................... ..........telling another colleague he can,t work with women because they make him h*rny. ...........is really shocking...think you need to speak to your superior..........I don,t like the sound of this guy at all!!............hope it went alright last night.Suzex

[Tally]

When I got in last night I had to talk to my supervisor and manager. They felt bad because they thought I was telling them things he'd done because I found them funny, they didn't realise I was upset and were worried I thought they were laughing at me. I was getting a bit frustrated that they hadn't done anything, but I thought it was because there wasn't really anything they could do.

 

They know what's been going on, so it was just a case of explaining how I felt about it really. I said the only way I could think to manage the situation was to just keep upsetting him until he didn't talk to me, and that what I said last week seemed to have stopped him talking to me for good now. I said that I was scared to talk to him at all because he would accuse me of saying other things, but they said they know he does that so they wouldn't take it too seriously if he did. That is reassuring, so now I feel like I can talk to him if I have to, even though I don't really want to, but I don't have to worry about his reaction. They said I can go to them if there is any problem at all, so if he pulls a "you're not my boss, I will just do what I want," I can just walk away and they can sort it now.

 

They asked if I thought my direct way of speaking might have contributed to the problem, and I said it probably had, even though he actually asked for this, and I had been extremely careful about what I said after I realised he was getting upset. (I might still have got some things wrong, but it would be less than with most people because I was being extra careful about it.) I also said that I have never had this level of problem with anyone before, and I was less careful with other people so I did think his reaction was more of a problem than my way of speaking. I gave the example of a colleague who I find annoying and who talks too much. (They laughed at that!) I said I just switch off and ignore him when it gets too much, and it never leads to this extreme problem, even though he must notice that I have stopped listening and might sometimes feel offended by that . . . I had never considered before that he might get offended.

 

I told them that I don't think he deliberately sets out to upset people, but that I think he has extremely low self-esteem and perceives any minor criticism as a serious personal attack, and lashes out in response. I said he told me that he wants everyone to like him, and that I think he's putting himself through a whole load of unnecessary anxiety and disappointment by setting himself such an unrealistic target. They said they knew he was paranoid about not being offered a permanent position, but I said I think it might have happened before, that employers have said, "we can't keep you on because your work is not good enough," whereas the problem is really that they just don't want him around - not so much paranoia as a fear based on real experiences. But, these things are not my fault and not my responsibility, and I am not prepared to be on the receiving end of his temper, nor answer his incessant questions about my divorce to keep the peace.

 

So they decided to talk to him. Well apparently the manager sat there and let my supervisor talk to him They just tried to reassure him about the quality of his work, but said they'd noticed he seemed to be upsetting a lot of people, and that there seemed to be a particular problem with me. They were quite surprised when he didn't say, "oh but she said blah blah blah," and actually accepted that he felt anxious about keeping his job and getting on with everyone. He asked if someone had made a complaint and they told him no, that they had noticed and heard through the grapevine. And I haven't made a complaint anyway, and can't unless I can put my finger in what exactly is the problem. Really I needed advice on how to handle the situation, and the reassurance that I am not going to get into trouble if he starts claiming I said things I didn't, and I got both of those things.

 

So I still think he's a pig, and I still hate working with him and intend to make absolutely no effort to make him feel comfortable. But it's not as bad now.

 

I also saw the Personnel Manager, but really it was sorted by then, so I just said I was still unhappy working with him, but I am not so worried about it any more.

 

The ball is in his court now. If he wants to start acting like a decent human being, I'm willing to try to get on - although I never intend to befriend him. Otherwise the situation is going to stay as it is. His choice, and I am not going to feel bad about it.

[Bard]

Yet again, you are showing what a wise and sensible woman you are, but if he starts pushing the boundaries you should tell your supervisor straight away.

The remark about working with women making him feel horny was offensive and stupid, and your company will have policies on this. If he does anything further to make you feel uncomfortable or worried, tell.

You are so right to say that his problems are not yours, and I think that being blunt and plain-spoken with him denied him the chance to say that he hadn't understood how you felt, or what you found hard to work with, and that was well done.

I think he needs access to professional help through his gp.

[pearl]

Well done Tally, a really difficult situation to handle & you've done everything right <'>

[Bagpuss]

Yes, well done Tally

[Tally]

He says he is looking for a new job. I will celebrate if he really gets one, but I think he's probably just trying to manipulate them into accommodating his request to change departments. It's not going to work though.

 

He is also very excited that we are having a new woman start on the department this week. I think it might be true that he has a particular issue about women. He told a colleague that when there are women around he feels he should "act like a man." He drives everyone mad, but it's only me that he's been so nasty with.

 

He has been criticising the other new starter for the amount of time he is taking off work following his wife's death last week, so he's not exactly endearing himself to his other colleagues at this point either.

 

Hopefully he will leave soon.

[Suze]

How can anyone criticise someone for taking time off following the death of their wife .....................I dislike him even more now.

[Tally]

He has left

 

He went sick on Saturday night, was off Sunday, didn't turn up on Monday night, and dropped by last night to say he has developed a heart condition and can't manage the heavy lifting.

 

After the amount of honesty that has come out of his mouth, I am not going to worry myself over his health. If he needed the job as much as he says he does, there are plenty of jobs he could have done.

 

Everyone is joking that he left because I bullied him

 

I am now working with another new starter, but she's been trained on another department, so she pretty much knows what she's doing already. I find it stressful and tiring to work with someone constantly, but this one is worth it. Just that after all this, I really don't feel up to it. She is now off for 2 nights, so I am quite relieved, but not because of anything she has done wrong.

Edited March 12, 2008 by Tally