TRIBUNAL on Tuesday

[JenRose]

just found out that IPSEA wont be coming to the tribunal on tuesday.

 

was going to go through all notes with the rep on tues morning and she would help me prepare my case but now thats not going to happen.

 

 

so, its lea have refused to asess dd.

 

her SN are:

 

Speech and Language difficulties

Incontinence difficulties (she,s not toilet trained)

she,s being assesed for ASD at the moment

Hemiplegia, which causes her to stumble and get tired quickly

mild hearing loss

 

ed psych from lea hasnt seen her since last july,but last week a SLT carried out an asessment on her, we knew nothing about this and the report is not

signed.

theres an iep thats supposedly been ongoing since september that we,ve never seen or signed.

 

their ed psych disputes that she is ASD but does say she has a speech problem.

the nursery blame us for the fact that she,s not toilet trained which is laughable cos i would have had social services on my back.

 

our independent psych says PDD-NOS and she does have a a language problem.

we have a letter from her paed saying she has incontinence difficulties and is going to require help and support from school.

 

im worried cos the senco from nursery is going, and she tells lies and has told different people different things about what dd can and cannot do.

 

thats about it really, if anyone can give me some advice id be grateful.

[Flora]

Jen

 

Oh heck what a let down

 

As I said on an earlier thread; Go through all your evidence and cross reference it.

 

Make a list of all the arguments that you anticipate the LEA to come up with during the hearing, and next to them reference the evidence you have against those arguments and the page number of that evidence in the case statement. Then you can raise your argument against it and tell the panel exactly where in the bundle they can find that evidence.

 

Make sure that you also go through the COP and highlight the paragraphs that relate to your case.

 

During the hearing don't interupt (even when you're listening to something very difficult to hear), the panel don't like that and you will get the opportunity to refute what the LEA have said.

 

When the LEA are presenting their case make notes that you can refer to when you get the opportunity to answer.

 

Are you going by yourself or is anyone at all going with you? If you are going with someone agree with them before hand who will be the note taker.

 

When speaking to the panel make sure that you turn your head so that you are addressing all of them.

 

Don't lose your temper, although it is ok to cry and ask for a break whenever you feel that things are getting too difficult, or when you want more time to go through your notes.

 

If I can think of anything else I will post again.

 

What a shame that IPSEA have let you down so close to the date of the hearing.

 

Flora

[JenRose]

thanks flora for your advice thats really helpful.

 

am going through COP and it says

 

perceptual and motor skills,

 

not sure what that means or how it relates to dd.

 

could anyone advise

 

thanks

[Kazzen161]

Motor skills eg: gross motor skills - jumping, riding a bike, kicking a ball

fine motor skills eg: threading beads, using a pencil, picking up small objects.

Perceptual is to do with your perception of things eg: you may not interpret what you see correctly, or may not be able to interpret signals from your body correctly when moving it around in a space.

 

This is sport related but interesting:

 

The Gross and Fine Continuum

This continuum is concerned with the precision of movement - gross and fine skills.

 

Gross skills: involve large muscle movements, where the major muscle groups are involved. The movements are not very precise, and include many fundamental movement patterns such as walking, running and jumping. The shot putt is an example of a primarily gross skill.

 

Fine skills: involve intricate movements using small muscle groups, tend to be precise and generally involve high levels of hand-eye coordination. A snooker shot or playing the piano are examples fine skills.

 

The Open and Closed Continuum

This continuum is concerned with the effects of the environment on skills - Barbara Knapp's open and closed skills also known as open and closed loop control.

 

Open skills: sports such as Netball, Football, and Hockey usually involve open skills. This is because the environment is constantly changing and so movements have to be continually adapted. Therefore, skills are predominantly perceptual. The skill is mostly externally paced, for example a pass in football.

 

Closed skills. These skills take place in a stable, predictable environment and the performer knows exactly what to do and when. Therefore, skills are not affected by the environment and tend to be habitual. Movements follow set patterns and have a clear beginning and end. The skills tend to be self-paced, for example a free throw in Basketball, and serving in Squash or Tennis.

 

Barbara Knapp suggests that skills can fit on a continuum between open and closed.

[JenRose]

thanks kazzen

[JenRose]

went to pick up dd before, was handed a copy of an asessment that the ed psych did on her yesterday.

 

presume they are taking it to the tribunal hearing on tuesday, so i phoned sendist and asked them what i could do about it and she said

voice your objections at the hearing and it will be up to the panel to decide whether or not they include it.

 

i cant beleive them, they have had all this time and they decide to do an asessment 3 days before?

 

doesnt make sense.

[madme]

Hi. Is the ed psych report of use to you - if not object to it as late evidence but I suspect that that person will be there and able to give evidence- if so you will need to get ready to say why the report is innacurate. One thought- can the NAs assist- they have a legal helpline and Im aware a firm of solicitors in London do the SENDIst as pro bono. Another option is to instruct a barrister direct - cutting out the solicitors fees- or I think that there is an organisation called SOS SEN who help with the tribunals. If it is a request for an assessment its much more straightfoward. Flora is so right- do not interrupt- the Chair will get annoyed. Make good notes as you go. Take your time- you dont have to feel rushed. Make sure that you have your agruments and the supporting evidence already - so you can say Point 1---please look at page... etc. Try and work out what their case is and your responses as to why they are wrong agian refering to the relevant page in the bundle. At our hearing our bindle was hundreds of pages ( it was against parts 2, 3 and 4) and I knew my way around it really well. Good luck and get plenty of splep the night before.

[Flora]

From what I gathered at my tribunal, the panel will allow late evidence if it can be proved that it couldn't be reasonably have been submitted earlier. However, the panel can disregard late evidence with a later date (ie recent and thefore couldn't have been submitted earlier) if there are objections raised and it is under serious contention. The week before the hearing my LA had a 'review meeting' so called but it was really a 'what can we do to put the boot in and win this tribunal' meeting. The minutes were submitted as late evidence and they were so obviously 'staged' that it was laughable. The panel rejected these minutes because my barrister objected to them on the basis that they were contentious and unsubstantiated. The panel accepted my barristers objection and disregarded the minutes. I wish I'd had some way of taking a photograph of the LA's solicitor's face when that happened, it was a moment of pure pleasure for me just to see the alarm and 'oh we are well and trully done for' expression.

 

Jen, if you find that the late evidence is contentious or unsubstantiated then make sure you have your argument ready for when late evidence is discussed at the start of the hearing. However, go through it first because it may be that in some respects within this evidence there may be something that backs up your case.

 

Flora

[Kathryn]

Hi Jen Rose,

 

Sorry to hear that your rep can't do the hearing. Don't panic though - it's the strength of your evidence that counts. And you don't have to prove beyond all doubt that your DD needs a statement at this stage, just that her difficulties should be assessed.

 

Try not to get sidetracked into discussing the LA mismanagement of your whole situation, as the tribunal can't do anything about that; just focus on your daughter's needs and the evidence you have to back this up.

 

I'm sure the panel will ask some very searching questions about the timing of this latest EP assessment.

 

I hope this tribunal goes the way of the others and that the LA cave in on Monday. You never know.

 

K x

[freedom]

my first appeal went all the way till 5 mins before and the education authority pulled out and granted a special needs school i was sat there all fired up and gagging to get in there and blow them to pieces with the medical evedience i had then they die that

 

now i am sat here 18 months later going threw it all again and for the exact same reasons only this time with another county and a bunch of law breaking snakes in a pit they have pulled all the stunts in the book and are going to till the hearing my other half keeps saying keep your cool don't react and i really must stress this is really good advice

 

be professional and follow your case notes dont go off track and do the well you did this and that it just makes this worse

 

the day will be hard and very stress full and now your support is not there but i did it alone last time and i am having to do it again this time so if i can do it you most defantly can ok

 

your emotions are a good thing use them to stay strong and controlled in all of this and read your case notes and thiers as you will see the course in which they are going to take if you dont like that course get your evedence mark up and highlighted drawing you to your course you would like it to go

 

be very care not to raise to thier childish behaviors as you are far better then they will ever be and after all this is your child you know her better than anyboby sat there on that day you love and care for your child everyday so you hold the true afacts of this case not them

 

chin up be strong thinking of you

[JenRose]

thanks freedom, so sorry that you are having to go through it all again.

 

had a meeting with our independent psych today.

 

he took one look at the ed psych report and said wheres the signature, i hadnt even noticed she hadnt signed it!

 

same with the speech test, its not signed.

 

he said what they have done is really bad and the panel wont accept it and will probably be not impressed at what theyve done.

 

strongly worded letters are going to the chief exec after the hearing, asking why the hell this has been allowed to happen and asking for another

ed psych to be appointed as we have no confidence in the current one.

 

he said he cant believe they are going through with is cos they are going to show themselves up really bad.

[freedom]

thats what the LA are good at looking like idiots and thinking they are god

 

but hay at the end of it all the mother always knows best and the need to jump with loy is overwhelming

 

you will be fine ok stay strong stick to the facts of the case and show them you are not just a little mother you are a powerful weapon of thier distruction

[julie1]

good luck i hope it goes well for you. I will be watching to see how it goes. We are at tribunal as well but not till sept, we too are very nervous and ipsea have just written and said that they cannot come with us. We cannot afford to pay for private help so we are alone too. I no ipsea have let a few people down at the moment im not sure why? pehapes there are to many of us having to fight for our children. A friend of mine won her appeal without help ,so there is hope of doing it alone. Be strong and stay calm is the advice ive been given.

[freedom]

good luck i hope it goes well for you. I will be watching to see how it goes. We are at tribunal as well but not till sept, we too are very nervous and ipsea have just written and said that they cannot come with us. We cannot afford to pay for private help so we are alone too. I no ipsea have let a few people down at the moment im not sure why? pehapes there are to many of us having to fight for our children. A friend of mine won her appeal without help ,so there is hope of doing it alone. Be strong and stay calm is the advice ive been given.

 

looking like our hearing is on 14 October and going it alone as the LA here have made all the out side helpers sign forms and contracts stating they can't come to hearings, making sure the parents have no support but from my past experiances believe me you CAN BEAT IT ON YOUR OWN

 

build your case file in order of the statement and then it makes it easier to go to each part i am appealing parts 2 , 3 and 4 of my sons statement

 

if you have it in order then you will know what comes next but remember that the panel would have read each parties case file and they will want answers to parts they feel are important so they will draw attention to those parts too it is really informal ok call up SENDIST and ask them for the DVD they have on how the appeal works and what will happen it shows parents that have done it and what they thort about it and does a inactment of an appeal hearing it will be good for the people here that have never been to hearings and think it's like a court far from it ok

 

very informal very synpathetic to parents emotional state if you cry it's fine just dont have an out burst if you need a break ask for it if you dont understand then ask them what they mean by what is said or written. and take notes if you can or highlight areas or great concern to you

[smiley]

Good Luck JenRose <'> Will have everything crossed.

[JenRose]

thanks smiley.

 

have a query if anyone could help as im just rechecking all my notes.

 

lea say dd wasnt known to them until oct 07 when we asked for a stat asess.

 

but ed psych and ASD Specialist teacher have been involved starting march 07 when they visited her in nusery, so surely this must mean that the lea

would have been aware?

 

thanks

[Flora]

thanks smiley.

 

have a query if anyone could help as im just rechecking all my notes.

 

lea say dd wasnt known to them until oct 07 when we asked for a stat asess.

 

but ed psych and ASD Specialist teacher have been involved starting march 07 when they visited her in nusery, so surely this must mean that the lea

would have been aware?

 

thanks

 

I'm not sure about that one Jen. Does EP and ASD resource involvement necessarily mean the LEA bods were involved? If so then you should have no probs proving their 'error'. Just put it as a query.

 

At my tribunal I was very impressed with how well the panel knew the case. The panel will have read all the bundle and if there are significant discrepencies they will spot them!

 

Flora

[sadie]

All the best, will be rooting for you..... all this makes me so grateful that my LEA agreed with me at the outset and all the time since.

Do let us know the outcome.

[pumpkinpie]

Eps etc are employed by the LA. So I think they are wrong with their dates. In our area before a child starts at nursery if they come to the notice of health oficals ie attend the child development centre ..health sends a form to the education office very early on o notify them that this child with sen is coming through the system.

Is there something similar in your area ?

[bid]

Everything crossed here, Jenrose

 

Bid <'>

[stressedmumto2]

Everything crossed here too. Stay calm and focused, if you don't understand something ask them to repeat the question. I've had representation at my tribunals but parenmts can do it by themselfs, you know the case afterall. Stick to the fcats and try no to get angry when/if the LA try to play games and lie.

 

Will be thinking of you <'>

[JenRose]

one thing thats confusing me is that theyve sent in this big IEP, apparantly its been running since the begin of sep 07.

 

well we,ve never seen it and its not signed either so what could be the relevance of this?

 

why send an iep if they say they have no concerns re her SN?

 

dont get it!

[Flora]

one thing thats confusing me is that theyve sent in this big IEP, apparantly its been running since the begin of sep 07.

 

well we,ve never seen it and its not signed either so what could be the relevance of this?

 

why send an iep if they say they have no concerns re her SN?

 

dont get it!

 

Jen, if you haven't seen the IEP before now, you can bet your life that it is something that has been prepared to make it LOOK like they're doing the right thing.

 

Also, as you've said, they have said she has no needs, and if she has no additional needs then why have an IEP?

 

Also, if she's had the same IEP since September 2007 then surely that would indicate that she'd made no progress? IEP's should be able to show progress over X many terms, and if there is no progress and the IEP is static then that would indicate that more support was needed that she is having.

 

Jen, you need to take some time out tonight just to find some inner calm. You know the case as you've lived it; the panel will have made it their business to know the case and believe me they will know it and will have familiarised themselves with all the bundle.

 

The truth will out, but it is very very important that you stay calm, focussed and strong.

 

Flora X