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bjkmummy

school action plus

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joe due to start reception in sept - hes been on school actionplus for 2 years at nursery - he has no dx yet but everyone agrees he has problems with social interaction with other children etc

 

school are saying that on school action plus he will get 2 x 10 mins of help a week - this sounds ridicoulous to me!!!

 

I know that the school can find 10 hours out of their budget without needing a statement but what do i need to do to access this extra help and how do you qualify??? i quickly spoke to parent partnership today and she felt that we should get at least 5 hours at this stage. i dont want to ruffle the schools feathers before joe even starts school but want to make sure that if he is entitled to it that he gets it

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SA+ For 2 years, funny that, J was on this for three years, yets a childs only suppose to be on this for up 6 months, basically, if done by scop,(schools,code of practice, your son should of recieved a statement by now, has he got any IEPs, and if so has there been any progress, what areas of his socialising difficulties are the main signs, is there any learning difficulties, reading, writing, ect.... will he require 1-1 support in the classroom.

 

If I knew what I know now J wouldnt have been on a SA+=%$� for more than 12 months.

 

Look throw his IEPs, and request an assessment of SEN for possible statementing so he can recieve the hours he needs, not what the School LEA want to give him.

 

J has a statement of SEN now.

 

JsMum

Edited by JsMum

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My son has AS and gets 21 sessions out of a possible 30 on school action plus in high school (still waiting for statement), so I'm amazed that two 10 minute sessions of help is all they will give him.I know that he has no dx, but surely what they have offered can't be right? It would seem to me that they are using his lack of a dx to get out of providing support out of their budget. I would not be happy with that either!

 

Good luck >:D<<'>

gothschild x

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I've never heard of that before and my son has been on school action plus for over 3 years.

His needs are reviewed each year to see if anything has to be changed, which it often does. If it is not working, as in our case, you or school can apply for an assessment and then hopefully get a statement of special needs (fingers crossed), without all of the tribunal stuff.

Interested in finding out about this myself because would hate to of been misled by Education department, school etc :angry:

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SA+ For 2 years, funny that, J was on this for three years, yets a childs only suppose to be on this for up 6 months, basically, if done by scop,(schools,code of practice, your son should of recieved a statement by now, has he got any IEPs, and if so has there been any progress, what areas of his socialising difficulties are the main signs, is there any learning difficulties, reading, writing, ect.... will he require 1-1 support in the classroom.

 

If I knew what I know now J wouldnt have been on a SA+=%$� for more than 12 months.

 

Look throw his IEPs, and request an assessment of SEN for possible statementing so he can recieve the hours he needs, not what the School LEA want to give him.

 

J has a statement of SEN now.

 

JsMum

 

I've never heard of this rule either.

SA+ is when external agencies are involved with the needs of a specific child. I have taught and known numerous children who will be on SA+ for their entire school career. My son is one of them.

Where did you get this piece of information from, out of curiosity?

Edited by Bard

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I've never heard of this rule either.

SA+ is when external agencies are involved with the needs of a specific child. I have taught and known numerous children who will be on SA+ for their entire school career. My son is one of them.

Where did you get this piece of information from, out of curiosity?

 

 

Hi I am reading throw my old information and I am sure I read somewhere that SA and SA PLUS are only tempary measures because the sa and sap are a process of screening throw to possible statementing, otherwise you could place a child on sa for a year or two, then sa+ for another year or two and before you know it its five years throw the process of going throw the SCHOOLS ACTION, I will search throw my stuff, its not a rule thing, just that if the schools follow the actual process of action and action plus and a child still has difficulties and not progressing and its clear they need a statement, then they should be assessed and given a statement, many many children are supported on school action and school action plus but once the schools budgets money has gone then so does the support, what ever support hours that be, unless they have a statement which is secure support because this is a legal paper.

 

J should never have had to have been on early years action and plus for the length of time he did, the whole structure of the process of school action and school action plus is so they can screen children who really do need the support, Js difficulties are not as severe as when he was five and six yet now he gets ten times more support throw his statement which he finally got after a total of 6 yrs on the schools action plus framework.

 

School action and school action plus are tempary messures to collect assessments and reports and to look at either reducing the support back to school action or no extra support at all or if there has been no progress on the school action and school action plus then an assessment of SEN for possible statementing to ensure a secure support is in place.

 

some children are on these years and I have defo read somewhere they are a six months to look at what action is taken.

 

JsMum

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This is from a government website for teachers:

 

School-based interventions, statutory assessments and Statements of SEN

 

Where children do not respond to differentiation and do not make adequate progress, there is a need for the school to do something additional or different. This school based SEN provision is described in the Code as School Action and School Action Plus. A similar system is set out for early education settings and described as Early Years Action and Early Years Action Plus.

 

School Action could be further assessment, additional or different teaching materials or a different way of teaching and it might sometimes, but not always, be additional adult support. Teachers use Individual Education Plans (IEPs) to record the different or additional provision to be made for the child, teaching strategies, short-term targets for the pupil, success criteria, and what they have achieved.

 

School Action Plus is where School Action has not helped the child to make adequate progress, and the school asks for outside advice from the LEA's support services, or from health or social work professionals. This could be advice from a speech and language therapist on a language programme or an Occupational Therapist's suggestions or a medical diagnosis and report giving recommendations as to how to work differently with the child in class. It might be information about the child's home circumstances that explains the changes in the child's behaviour and attitudes to learning which can then help the school to work with others to resolve the situation.

 

The key test for taking School Action, moving to School Action Plus, or considering whether a statutory assessment is necessary is whether the child is making adequate progress. The Code defines 'adequate progress' and lists different kinds of progress, depending on the starting point and expectations for a particular child. Essentially, what is considered to be adequate progress for a particular child is a matter for the teacher's professional judgement.

 

Most children will have their special educational needs met by their school through School Action and School Action Plus. But that will not be possible all the time. If a child?s needs cannot be met through School Action Plus, the LEA may consider the need for a statutory assessment and, if appropriate, makes a multi-disciplinary assessment.

 

Following that, the LEA may decide to make and implement a Statement of Special Educational Needs setting out the child's needs in detail and the special educational provision to be made for them. The Statement must be reviewed at least annually. Either of the school-based interventions may result in satisfactory provision and progress by the pupil and therefore no need for a statutory assessment or a statement.

 

The Code stresses the importance of working in partnership with parents in all aspects of the pupil's education, and of the pupil's participation in making decisions and exercising choices in relation to their own education. This can help the pupil's progress.

 

So that's why I've not heard of it as statutory. For many children, the level of support and intervention is appropriate at SA and SA+ Only when it isn't do they move to the statementing process.

I'm fairly sure that B will stay at SA+ throughout his schooling, that level of support is what he needs.

Edited by Bard

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Hi Js SA+ Support was pulled away from him after the schools sen budget was all spent.

He recieved nothing at all, except punishments when he couldnt do the work with out support, the teacher insisted we needed a statement, but the LEA wanted the school to do more, but with what, it was a very traumatic time.

 

Statements are there to meet the childs SEN not school action/plus, these are a frame work to ensure that children get statements if they need them.

 

JsMum

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So in your son's case, the school failed him.

The whole point of having a budget is to manage the money so that it doesn't run out, and an IEP runs for 4 months before review, so his support should have been secure. If his needs aren't being met, then SA+ isn't adequate and the Statementing process should be implemented.

 

That case is a little different to the initial reaction of shock and horror that your post sent through me, that for years I have been supporting children on SA+ for more than 6 months not knowing that to do so was wrong.

I try to do a good job as a teacher for all of the children I have a duty of care for, and I was very concerned that a ruling had changed that I was unaware of and had thus been negligent in my job.

 

Different children with SEN have different levels of need, and a Statement, in my opinion is unnecessary for every individual on the SEN register in a school. SA and SA+ are useful tools to define and meet certain levels of support.

Edited by Bard

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If you have been supporting children who are on SA + for years, then yes something is wrong, SAs are only tempary, not a continued process, yes they are reviewed but mainly to see if they can withdraw the support or actually go throw the assessment process of a statement, Js extra support on SA plus was 30 mins per week, that was it, even on SA + the behaviour modification/reward charts failed flat when the support was withdrawn, J needed 1-1 and full time supervision but he didnt get it, on SA/+ he was mearly on a register that was it, a concern but not recieving the support he should of had.

 

When he did get more support for a brief term it was pulled away and within weeks absent from school due to the effects of no support, even with a statement Js still struggling and now needs full time support part of that to blame is because for years he was on school action and he required much more support.

 

I am not saying there is a law of six months for the saplus but its certainly ment to be only tempary, some children are on them way too long when what they need is a statement.

 

JsMum

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I agree with Bard - children could stay on SA or SA+ for a long time, if it is appropriate and if it is meeting their needs. At SA+, outside professionals provide advice. That advice may not be enough to "cure" the problem, but continued advice may be all that is necessary to continue to meet the child's needs (eg: if the child has OT needs or advice from Autism Outreach).

 

It is up to the school to sort out the funding (yes, we all know it is hard) but the LEA/Tribunal won't issue a Statement just so that the school HAS to provide the support that it should be providing any way.

 

As parents, we all know having a Statement ENSURES our child gets the support he needs (well, mostly), and that we don't get entangled in the internal bickerings over who should fund it.

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The impression I'd got from IPSEA (and, I think, NAS) was that SA+ should only last for two periods of six months, assuming that schools have reviews that regularly. Ideally reviews should be that often and if no significant progress has been made on the IEP targets at SA+ then it's supposed to indicate that the child needs more help than can be given at SA+ and you should apply for stat assessment. Even if there IS significant progress you can still apply for stat assessment if you can prove that it has only been achieved by ridiculous amounts of effort being made, both in and outside of school.

 

TBH, I think the COP is a bit too idealistic. That might be how things work in Utopia Primary but not where most kids go to school. The COP may even have been written by H C Andersen (or more likely the Brothers Grimm), but I'd have to check.

 

And it's not even a legal document, to my knowledge (nobody I've asked has been able to prove otherwise), just guidelines for good practice. Which essentially means a school can choose to follow it or not.

 

Cynical, moi?!

 

Karen

x

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Bard is right - some children's needs can be met at Action/ Action Plus; they are not intended to be temporary UNLESS the child's needs cannot be met, in which case a child would progress to a Statement.

 

Only a small number of children need statements, which provide the greatest level of help. Other children can manage on School Action Plus and a smaller amount of help.

 

In my authority, the LEA won't consider Statementing unless 6 months has been spent on School Action Plus, but that's because the schools have to be seen to have tried other options before Statementing. It's not a rule that a child can ONLY spend 6 months on School Action Plus.

 

The key to remember is that the ONLY legal criteria for a Statement is that a school cannot meet a child's needs from its own resources.

 

My son spent 6 months on Early Years Action Plus and was then Statemented just in time for primary school.

 

He will never be on School Action Plus, partly because I would never let go of the legal protection that the Statement gives and partly because I can't see how he will ever function safely without full time support. But if he was milder, then I wouldn't care what the support was called as long as it met his needs.

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hmm i was very confused the other day at the sendist tribunal.

 

the chair said they could only consider a stat asess for a child that had not been making progress on SA+ and some children do very well and stay on SA+.

 

id always thought if a child had been on SA+ for a while and even if things stayed the same then a statement was necessary.

 

dd has been on SA+ since Jan 2006 and still was up til last october when we put the request for stat assess in and then suddenly she lost her place with ICAN and was no longer on SA+ or SA.

 

i sincerely hope the panel see what has happened but got the feeling they were more for the LEA cos as one of them put, its not as if she,s been ignored she,s had help for a long time.

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Bard is right - some children's needs can be met at Action/ Action Plus; they are not intended to be temporary UNLESS the child's needs cannot be met, in which case a child would progress to a Statement.

 

Only a small number of children need statements, which provide the greatest level of help. Other children can manage on School Action Plus and a smaller amount of help.

 

In my authority, the LEA won't consider Statementing unless 6 months has been spent on School Action Plus, but that's because the schools have to be seen to have tried other options before Statementing. It's not a rule that a child can ONLY spend 6 months on School Action Plus.

 

The key to remember is that the ONLY legal criteria for a Statement is that a school cannot meet a child's needs from its own resources.

 

My son spent 6 months on Early Years Action Plus and was then Statemented just in time for primary school.

 

He will never be on School Action Plus, partly because I would never let go of the legal protection that the Statement gives and partly because I can't see how he will ever function safely without full time support. But if he was milder, then I wouldn't care what the support was called as long as it met his needs.

 

>:D<<'> Thanks

 

I'm not going mad then. :tearful:

 

B is on School Action+, and the support he receives is exactly what he needs to thrive in the mainstream school environment he is in.

He is Y8, his grades are all 6 or 7, except PE, he is happy and so are the school. He gets no support in class other than the teacher adapting the learning environment to his needs. I feel that a Statement is unnecessary for him.

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In an ideal world no child in mainstream would need a statement: parents would be able to trust schools to deliver, as all schools would be given adequate funding and unlimited access to outside support services to help all children on SA or SA + .

 

Ha! there goes a flying pig.... :wacko:

 

K x

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It seems to me that this confusion is all part of the problem. Too much uncertainty about how the system actually works, which has to lead to unrealistic expectations and questions about the service. Quite worrying, really.

 

Karen

x

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B is on School Action+, and the support he receives is exactly what he needs to thrive in the mainstream school environment he is in.

He is Y8, his grades are all 6 or 7, except PE, he is happy and so are the school. He gets no support in class other than the teacher adapting the learning environment to his needs. I feel that a Statement is unnecessary for him.

 

 

Let me explain how mainstream is for J on a statement, J is working serverly below expected levels for his curriculum, even in maths and science where he is stronger he is still below his peers, he cant read, spell, organise, plan, analayse, has severe sensory difficulties that when its rains and taps on the rooftops he withdraws and goes in his own world, to trap out the pain it brings to his ears and head, his work is always different as he is isnt capable of doing what others in his class are doing, and with one to one otherwise he doesnt do anything, when he is doing the same as other children its with younger children, he gets distracted by a raindrop, a sound of a neddle dropping, restless and aggitated very easily, his social communication and behaviour are so behind he still struggles with taking turns, sharing, rules of a game, he requires constant array of information going over and over again which wares down the teachers, he requires constant monitoring as his social skills are that he reacts physically and esculates his behaviour.

 

He now attends part time because he is so stressed with a full day, and he becomes severely aggressive when its school time table, he doesnt stay at dinner times anymore because he was loosing his breaks and he can not eat in front of others and the crowds and noise causes him not to be able to eat as much.

 

J hates school and cant wait to leave after just 2 and half an hours of lessons, some days I even fail getting him there for that.

 

Mainstream for us has been a very traumatic time, not ever has it gone smoothly, he is too able for a special school and yet so far behind in a mainstream but because of inclusion he remains part time, Js not a bad lad and teachers and pupils like him and they know that he has ADHD and Autistic but he feels like he has no friends, that he cant do anything, and his self esteem is very low.

 

Mainstream schooling has not just effected him but his teachers, pupils and me his mum, but the biggest person loosing out is J.

 

JsMum

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So even with a Statement, J is having a dreadful time at school and can't wait to get out of there. It must be horrible to have to make him attend.

Do you think that it's because he didn't get a Statement from the beginning? or do you think that the school could be doing other things to help him?

I'm not having a go, I'm seriously interested in hearing from the parent of a boy who is so different to my own, even two years ago when mine was 11.

I thought that there were schools, not mainstream, that catered for more able children with specific needs. Some of the parents on the forum have got children who are in such schools, like hev's Steve.

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So even with a Statement, J is having a dreadful time at school and can't wait to get out of there. It must be horrible to have to make him attend.

Do you think that it's because he didn't get a Statement from the beginning? or do you think that the school could be doing other things to help him?

I'm not having a go, I'm seriously interested in hearing from the parent of a boy who is so different to my own, even two years ago when mine was 11.

I thought that there were schools, not mainstream, that catered for more able children with specific needs. Some of the parents on the forum have got children who are in such schools, like hev's Steve.

 

 

J should never of had started primary schooling, but the pre unit was full and he started primary school, with loads of problems, but the only person been punished was J, he was described as Naughty, when younger, his work was held up as an example of what NOT to produce, he was given early years plus and his nursery pulled out all the stops but at primary they kept saying he was ok but he wasnt, he was constantly kept in a corridor and excluded from lessons all the time, we pulled him out after an assessment and started a new school, they promised not to do what the other school did to J but what they did was worse, withdraw essential support and then turned on me, he then was homeeducated, I couldnt manage both school and home time so he went to a smaller primary, he thanfully had his statement then, and had teachers that where experienced with AS and ADHD and for a year he was attending but struggling, then just after 9 months he started to stuggle with socialising, activities, and complex conerversations and slowly he began to refuse to attend school becoming aggressive to need police assistance, over the last 9 months we have had meetings more than fillings in my teeth, and I think the meetings where more painful than a peircing drill, but the school have done so much for us, understood, been supportive and met us with negotiations, I have tried like crazy to get our LEA to accept J isnt coping in mainstream but his IQ is too high for Special schools.

 

There is only one ASD school and its full and every parent is fighting like crazy to get their child in it, and its not our county LEA, there is local EBD schools and then the more severe disabilities but these would not be suitable for Js needs.

 

I am fighting for a placement that is similair to Hev's Sons school and attending Tribunal in late september, the local LEA want me to "give it Try " with local secondary mainstream school, even though they know how he has struggled and suffered over the last year.

 

This is why I dont have no faith in the School Action and school action plus, because they tried these in early Nursery and primary and things have been left far too long and yes I think he should of recieved a statement from day one primary and with much more hours of support especially for his spersific learning difficulties and behaviour.

 

I have defo read that SA especially is only designed for short term, then SA+ for a much shorter term or its withdrawn or it should give enough evidence for assessment because thats what SA+ is there for, its setting targets and support.

 

The whole reason SA/+ is there is to screen for statements.

 

If a primary school starts on SA and is on it for 2 years then the child is in year y2, if they then agree its SA+ and keep renewing it after reviews for the next 2 years the child has attending school for over 4 years when its possible they needed a statement much earlier.

 

If I have my information wrong on the time scale, then there should be just like there is for the full assessment of statementing.

 

A year for SA and a year for SA+ and if no progress or its only because of support in place then a statement.

 

Js needs will not be met in a mainstream secondary school even with a full time Statement and I do blame the early difficulties for this.

 

JsMum

Edited by JsMum

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JsMum, I agree that SA and SA+ are completely inadquate for some children, yours and mine being two of them. Some children's needs are so extreme and obvious that they require Statementing almost immediately. But in some areas, SA+ can provide up to 25 hours of funding, admittedly not legally guaranteed, but technically a child can have 25 hours per week without a Statement.

 

It simply is not true that SA and SA+ are meant to be temporary or screening tools to work towards a statement. It's the opposite. The idea is that SA and SA+ try to head off the need for a Statement by intervening early. You and I know that this can be inadquate provision for SOME children in SOME schools in SOME LEAs, but certainly not all. 20% of children are on the SEN register in the UK - if they were all heading towards Statements then the whole system would go into meltdown.

 

You're right in saying that IF a child's needs are not being met on SA/ SA+ then the school or LEA should progress towards a statement, but it worries me that some people might read your posts and see SA/SA+ as steps towards an inevitable Statement when, in reality, some children can make very good progress without a Statement. I know a dyslexic child who gets 2 hours of specialist teaching a week and 3 hours of TA support in English lessons (on SA+) and has made amazing progress. They wouldn't want someone with them all the time because then they'd never feel independent.

 

It does make me sad when children get a dx or have any small lag in achievement at school and then parents automatically say 'we want a Statement'. A Statement is ONLY necessary and will ONLY be given when the support needed is beyond that that a mainstream school can provide from its own resources. Most children's needs can be met by a school (if the school is doing what it should) without the need for a Statement. The deal is that SA and SA+ show that a school has been making an effort.

 

So you can't usually get to a Statement without having tried SA and SA+ first in most LEAs, but being on SA and SA+ doesn't mean that you HAVE TO be statemented.

 

Sorry to harp on about it, but I think it's important that misunderstandings like this are corrected so that people don't go into schools armed with the wrong info.

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:notworthy:

 

I decided to step out of a potential virtual argument, but I'm in total agreement with what you've written teachermum.

 

It's also a question of schools being honest, reliable and consistent about providing the support promised on SA+, and that's where, I think, that many people on the forum have been badly let down by their schools.

Many don't trust the education department, or teachers to do their job, and see the majority of professionals in education as deceitful and indifferent to their children's needs.

 

So they see a Statement as the equivalent of a contract signed in blood that is unbreakable. And they want one for their child.

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school are saying that on school action plus he will get 2 x 10 mins of help a week - this sounds ridicoulous to me!!!..........................................................

 

 

Well from the replys from Bard and techermum, I think what your school are offering on the SA+ Is obserd, rediculous with a capital R.

 

As your son has been on SA+ for more than 2 Years and already been in the SEN system I would apply for an assessment of SEN as SOME children do need STATEMENTS, I stand by what I have said, SAs are suppose to be tempary.

 

I think from your orginal post I would apply for ASSESSMENT OF SEN, You can look throw the publications from ACE, Network 81, NAS on assessment of SEN.

 

I can believe your schools wants to give your son 20mins a week, especially as some here have clearly stated that on SA+ You can get upto 25 hours WITHOUT a statment.

 

Im in disbeliefe, personally.

 

JsMum

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hi everyone,

 

this has been an interesting debate and shows how different things are depending on area schools etc

 

Ive spoken to parent partnership who are aware of joe - they have suggested at the next meeting i have with the area senco in a weeks time to push for more help for joe - the area senco will be reviewing joes ieps plus im going to get them all out from the last 2 years and see if he has made any real progress. the ieps tend to be not reviewed but have more targets added to them!! I know he hasnt met any of his last targets and if he hasnt i want answers!!!! if they try to say he has i want evidence!!!! after the meeting with the area senco i then have to re contact the parent partnership and she is going to start negotiations with the school - her instinct is we should be starting with at least 5 hours which still seems low to me. the parent partnership lady thinks i have little chance getting a statement without a dx which we are still trying to get after 2 years - keep getting the same old - 'well hes still youn' but now 2 years have passed and we are still at square one!!! the ep saw joe and guess what - he just suggested targets for joes iep and thats it!! i am due to see joes paed in 2 weeks time when he will finally then refer joe to cahms

 

let the battle commence!!!!

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Our areas parent partnerships are employed by the LEA, interesting that isnt it.

 

SO beware of who is giving you the supportive knowledge, are your PP independant of the LEA?

 

my pp said J wouldnt get a statement either, but I took support from independant support and yes he has a statement thats been looked at in the SEN Tribunals for parts 2,3,4

 

I may of got some things wrong on this thred too so I apologise for that, but its what Ive read and been told too.

 

Be careful who you show your evidence to as well, photocopy everything and never give anything for the LEA to copy, copy it and give it in yourself.

 

Good luck, remember IPSEA, NETWORK 81, ACE all have great booklets on SA SAPLUS AND STATEMENTING, Good luck and let me know how you get on with the SAPLUS or if you do decide to go ahead for an assessment of SEN.

 

JsMum

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JsMum, as someone who helped you to get your original statement for J (recognise me now???!!!) you will know that I am NOT having a go at you, but continuing my campaign as someone who's within the system and parent of Statemented child to make sure that accurate information is held by all. Just wanted you to realise who I was so that you know it's not a personal attack!

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From what I understand statements over SA+ For J is the statement identifies and quantifies Js support with a clear discription of his needs and support, the money comes directly from LEA so if the school run out of money children with statements are garented the support required and have more laws to protect the child, discrimination issues and lets the school know that the child has a special educational need and on the SEN register and IEP are given termly.

 

SA+ for J was only given when the money was available, he wasnt on the SEN register and the support was a lot less than when on a statement.

 

For us SA/+ was more for the school to monitor J rather than support J.

 

The statement ensures that J gets the support that is spersific to his needs.

 

JsMum

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For correct definitons see the Code of Practice for SEN.

 

Money does not always come from the LA for statemented chikdren (depends on the LA) BUT if your child has a Statement, the school HAS to provide what is specified in the Statement (which is why it is essential for provision to be carefully specified eg: x hours of 1:1), whereas SA+ provsion is cut if funds do not stretch that far (this shouldn't happen, but it often does).

 

Generally, only children with Statements can access places in special/specialist/indpendent schools.

 

Children on SA, SA+ and with Statements are all included on the SEN Register.

 

IEPs are often used for all children on the Register, but some schools are only doing them for Statemented or St'd and SA+ children now.

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