Classmates vote out a 5 year old with ASD

[Cat]

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/may/23/st-...her-5-year-old/

 

In my opinion and for what it's worth Autism Speaks have to take some responsibility for the way in which autism is viewed and seen in the US. They are the group that wants autism eradicating within the lifetime of it's co-founder and say that they are on track to make this happen. This is the group that pedals autism as something that has to be avoided at all costs. Is it any wonder then that this teacher allowed 5 year olds to vote out of their class one of their peers . What message is this sending to the 5 year olds in her class.

 

Let us remember that Autism Speaks has now taken residence in the UK. I was quite taken aback after reading the latest minutes from the APPGA meeting where Autism Speaks were given centre stage on April 2nd World Autism Day - they came across as a hard working, all caring group working hard on the behalf of families living with autism who actively welcome the input of adults with autism - well not in the States they don't. I think that I have said before that this group has a hidden agenda - I think that we are beginning to see the repercussions of a condition that is being labelled in the States as an epidemic

 

Cat

[smiley]

That's disgusting

 

.......and i agree with your thoughts on Autism Speaks

[sesley]

for a long time in the background of the tv drama ER they had a poster up saying CURE AUTISM NOW!the only cure i can think of them meaning is through detection before birth through amniosentisis,like they do for Downs and you all know what that means what a terroble loss to human kind if there was no unique and interesting and talented people with autism,what a awful crime against humanity.as bad as geneocide on the basis of race.

[Bard]

That article turns my stomach in the way that it was presented as a fair, democratic and sensible way to deal with a special needs child.

 

I wonder if she smiled and said "Goodbye now, and have a nice day" as she explained what the ruling of his peers meant and showed him the door.

[madme]

This is awful and to read some of the comments makes me so sad. My son had his year three teacher do a similar thing- ask all the other kids why they didnt like him. We removed our son from the school. Other parents with children with disabilities have also subsequently removed their children. Unfortunately there are some people who just shouldnt be teaching.

[baddad]

I'm certainly not defending this if it has been accurately reported, and share the concerns of everyone about groups that demonise autism and talk about 'cures' or eradication...

But...

Done properly, in the right circumstances, and with aduts who make sure it's not done as a 'judgement process' I think that peers telling a child (or an adult come to that) what they find challenging/upsetting/frightening/disturbing about behaviours can be an extremely helpful and empowering learning opportunity. Adults (or "carers") will often be seen as figures of authority and 'remote' from the feelings of the person exhibiting the behaviour. Consequently their views on the behaviour may not seem as significant as those of peers...

If the reporting is accurate, this is totally and utterly wrong, but I do wonder sometimes how schools (or any external party) can discipline/control pupils when many parents seem to regard any intervention as an intrusion, abuse or restriction of liberties?

 

 

[justamum]

A friend told me of this today. A similar thing actually happened to my son HERE in the UK!

 

The question was 'who do you NOT want to sit next to?'. They all voted for him and the teacher acted on it and he sat alone until I pulled him from the school.

 

Not only is it wrong but it's HORRIBLE and bullying that has been instigated by someone in authority who is supposed to be setting an example to impressionable young minds (and from a Head Teacher at that).....I don't want that kind of teaching given to my children thank you!

 

Madme

 

Other parents with children with disabilities have also subsequently removed their children. Unfortunately there are some people who just shouldnt be teaching

 

Yep...remove bullying teachers and staff!

[Cat]

I agree with you to a point BD - but - always one of those with me I have yet to meet a five year old with autism who understands themselves and what is making them behave as they do, so I question how one of these session could help a five year old (I know that you are not saying that this should have been done with a five year old) I also question how you can expect an NT five year old to understand a peer who they find disruptive and who in their eyes probably spoils their games and their fun. I also question how much an NT five year old can be expected to understand how one of their peers can get away with something that they are not allowed to do - very fine line I think.

 

At the moment we are having a massive period of regression with the elder of our two sons. I know that his physical health in impacting on his mental health and I think that he does too - to an extent. But that is not stopping his behaviour and attitude from being a problem. He can see no further than himself and has no concern for what we are feeling. I have laid it on the line for him as has his SD and his elder brother but when he resides in the place that he is in now nothing gets through to him.

 

I imagine being a five year old being thrust into an environment that they neither understand not wish to be in, and then I add what happened to this little chap into the equation and I find it heartbreaking.

 

Cat

[Bard]

I can understand what you're saying Baddad, and in a way that sort of open dialogue is one of the things thst PSHCE and circle time is meant to address, along with all the new talk about Rights and Responsibilities in schools.

 

Had the teacher guided the discussion into identifying behaviours, explanations of them and what sort of mutually beneficial, mutually supportive strategies and ideas could result from having discussed the issue of having an ASD child in the class, then it wouldn't be quite such a horrible story.

Had the task been to think of positive ways of dealing with the problem.

But it wasn't.

He was excluded, marginalised, made to feel worthless and unwanted by his peers, with no support or understanding from the one person who should have been working on all the socialisation skills of her class.

An opportunity lost and a child demonised.

[Flora]

A guided discussion of what is annoying/problematic and what can be done about it is fine IF every child gets the opportunity to speak, and if other kids are discussed (surely in a class of 17 (as this supposedly was) they aren't all little angels?); In this case the boy was singled out and that is just absolutely not on. Also, 5 year olds can be quite brutal and if this story is true, then they've all just had a very effective lesson in bullying and ganging up.

 

Flora

[pookie170]

Hey BD, I think what you're saying is right to a point as well, but Flora has said exactly what I was going to. What I really dont get about this story is how it can be legal? If a child is going to be excluded from a class, surely, even in the mad old USA, there has to be a proper way of doing it?

I can't believe that teacher can sleep at night. I had a very similar thing happen to me at primary school, at an age when I was becoming acutely aware that I was not the prettiest,was a bit on the stout side and had not yet found my niche. I still have nightmares based on what happened to me. I really wish I could get hold of both my old teacher and the one involved in this story and give them a piece of my mind. This humiliation and torment will have shattered his poor little 5 year old ego into fragments, at an age where most kids should not be terribly aware of their differences. I hope his parents manage to find him a better school, where empathy and understanding are the order of the day....

 

I realise inclusion in mainstream is idealistic for many kids on the spectrum, my own son is one for whom this will always be true...(probably!!) And true, if inclusion means that the education of every other child in that class is being interrupted/disrupted/upset etc, then options must be looked at....but not in the way it is said to have been done.

 

As for the comments, I read 6, knowing it was most likely a bad choice, then shut the page down. The beliefs and attitudes of some of the posters disgusted me, but thats freedom of speech for ya....

 

 

Esther

[pearl]

I can understand what you're saying Baddad, and in a way that sort of open dialogue is one of the things thst PSHCE and circle time is meant to address, along with all the new talk about Rights and Responsibilities in schools.

 

Had the teacher guided the discussion into identifying behaviours, explanations of them and what sort of mutually beneficial, mutually supportive strategies and ideas could result from having discussed the issue of having an ASD child in the class, then it wouldn't be quite such a horrible story.

Had the task been to think of positive ways of dealing with the problem.

But it wasn't.

He was excluded, marginalised, made to feel worthless and unwanted by his peers, with no support or understanding from the one person who should have been working on all the socialisation skills of her class.

An opportunity lost and a child demonised.

 

Agreed.

Also - he's FIVE, fgs.

[bid]

I have skimmed through quite a lot of the comments, and actually the vast majority are appalled by this story.

 

The negative comments are certainly in the minority.

 

Bid

Edited May 28, 2008 by bid

[Enid]

Could`nt quite beleive it was true, why is that teacher still working!! Enid

[baddad]

Hmmmm... I seem to have been misunderstood, 'cos I certainly wasn't defending the teacher or school in this at all:

 

I'm certainly not defending this if it has been accurately reported, and share the concerns of everyone about groups that demonise autism and talk about 'cures' or eradication...

 

If the reporting is accurate, this is totally and utterly wrong

 

Perhaps it's just me, but whenever I see a newspaper article that reports in great detail on one side of an argument (in this case the mothers's), while offering very little from the other side I automatically ask why? It states things like 'the teacher confirms the incident happened' and 'the state ruled there was no evidence of abuse', but offers absolutely no elaboration on what the teacher said happened or why the state reached the decision it reached whatsoever...

so again, just to be clear that i'm not making any negative comments:

 

If the reporting is accurate, this is totally and utterly wrong

 

 

Bard summed it up far better than me (I was in a bit of a rush - Brainiac was okay by the way...)

 

Had the teacher guided the discussion into identifying behaviours, explanations of them and what sort of mutually beneficial, mutually supportive strategies and ideas could result from having discussed the issue of having an ASD child in the class, then it wouldn't be quite such a horrible story.

Had the task been to think of positive ways of dealing with the problem.

But it wasn't.

He was excluded, marginalised, made to feel worthless and unwanted by his peers, with no support or understanding from the one person who should have been working on all the socialisation skills of her class.

An opportunity lost and a child demonised.

 

I was just pointing out the potential benefits of doing what bard says the teacher should have done, and highlighting the possibility that the mother's description of events (the only one represented in any sort of detail) may not have been entirely accurate, and certainly wouldn't have been unbiased. The implication that he was marginalised, made to feel worthless by his peers with no support or understanding from the person who should have been working on all the socialisation skills of her class arises purely from the mother's testimony... I'm not a reporter, but I do know that's not journalism. If the article had been written with that sort of bias from the other angle, demonising the parent, i don't thin anyone would be arguing the fairness of the reporting style.

 

hope that clarifies things.

 

[Flora]

baddad

 

The article does quote the teacher as saying it did happen.

 

Flo'

[baddad]

baddad

 

The article does quote the teacher as saying it did happen.

 

Flo'

 

Hi Flozza - I know, I mentioned that above. It just says

 

Steele said the teacher confirmed the incident did occur.

 

"Steel" is said to be 'a spokeswoman for Port St Lucie', which basically means she's a council worker (or whatever the american equivelent of 'council' is)... it's like quoting the receptionist at the LEA... it doesn't say what the teacher confirmed ("yes, a boy was sent from the classroom") or offer any sort of elaboration...

 

Can't quite understand what I'm saying 'wrong' or missing here(?) because it seems I'm being interpreted as saying this was 'okay?'

 

Again, I'll refer back to my original post:

 

I'm certainly not defending this if it has been accurately reported, and share the concerns of everyone about groups that demonise autism and talk about 'cures' or eradication...

 

If the reporting is accurate, this is totally and utterly wrong,

 

If i am missing something, can someone please give me a pointer because i'm very confused!

 

 

[Flora]

Hi baddad

 

I wasn't implying you thought it was ok! Sorry you thought that.

 

I think it's the 'raw nerve' effect; ie, many of us have been at the receiving end of 'he says she says' scenarios when we are desperately trying to get things right for our kids then someone comes a long and undoes lots of hard work with one bad decision. As a consequence it's difficult to read articles like this and NOT feel anger and emotion in support of the parents.

 

You quite rightly pointed out in a roundabout way that caution should be applied to reading articles which are reported in a 'she says he says' emotive style. But many of us (including you maybe?) know how it feels when you see the effect that one bad experience with a teacher can have on our kids and automatically, within the confines of the information given in the article, our sympathies with the parents explode into righteous indignation and it's difficult to accept that there might be another explanation/side to this.

 

Hope that clarifies things

 

Floz

[Bard]

The school would have had the right to respond in the press too, so let's wait and see shall we?

As it stands, it seems as if the teacher has been moved out of that class, so the management obviously feel that there is a situation that needs to be addressed.

Perhaps Cat can keep us posted as to what further action is taken, or if there is a coherent explanation for what happened.

Or if it is just how the States plan to cleanse their society, one at a time until they are living in Stepford.

 

 

And no, Baddad, I didn't think that you were supporting her actions, just looking for the reason and logic in what had been reported. remember, I get a double whammy.

Not only could that have easily been B, I also have all the upset and angry parents who dislike teachers and the educational establishment with all of their hearts shouting "SEE!' and planning to shoot on sight. So the article annoyed and outraged me on several different levels.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Bard

[Cat]

Well feelings are still running high in the States with parents being very angry that this incident has not been recorded as being emotionally abusive towards the child.

 

Parents there appear to accept that this happend. If anything new appears I shall keep you posted.

 

Cat

[baddad]

Hi baddad

 

I wasn't implying you thought it was ok! Sorry you thought that.

 

I think it's the 'raw nerve' effect; ie, many of us have been at the receiving end of 'he says she says' scenarios when we are desperately trying to get things right for our kids then someone comes a long and undoes lots of hard work with one bad decision. As a consequence it's difficult to read articles like this and NOT feel anger and emotion in support of the parents.

 

You quite rightly pointed out in a roundabout way that caution should be applied to reading articles which are reported in a 'she says he says' emotive style. But many of us (including you maybe?) know how it feels when you see the effect that one bad experience with a teacher can have on our kids and automatically, within the confines of the information given in the article, our sympathies with the parents explode into righteous indignation and it's difficult to accept that there might be another explanation/side to this.

 

Hope that clarifies things

 

Floz

 

I agree 100% with that (no - strike that - this is a thread about an American article, so i am 100% down with that, girlfriend!)... I was just worried that that 'righteous indignation' was being misdirected at me I am very relieved to find I had misunderstood

 

 

Oh and to you too!

[baddad]

So the article annoyed and outraged me on several different levels.

 

Me too... shallow, shallower and shallower still Don't let anyone tell you I'm not complex

[Shnoing]

There's an online petition which speaks for itself: Fire-teacher-for-unprofessional-conduct.

[happymonday]

What happen to an inclusive society? Bet raciest comments would be out lawed?????