2 refusals to assess for statement

[A and A]

We have just been refused an assessment for our son for the second time in just over 5 months. We are wondering do we still have the right to appeal against the second decision? As the letter from the LEA with the second decision didn't mention anything about our right to appeal.

Edited November 9, 2009 by A and A

[Kathryn]

Hi A and A

 

I just looked back through your topics to get the background to your situation because this sounds a bit weird and I'm wondering if the official process was actually started at all.

 

Did you, or the nursery, ask the LEA officially in writing for a section 323 Statutory Assessment for your son?

 

K x

 

 

[A and A]

Hi A and A

 

I just looked back through your topics to get the background to your situation because this sounds a bit weird and I'm wondering if the official process was actually started at all.

 

Did you, or the nursery, ask the LEA officially in writing for a section 323 Statutory Assessment for your son?

 

K x

 

We the parents initially requested an assessment towards the end of may this year, and it got turned. WE weren't surprised as at that time we didn't have as much evidence. Now he has been assessed by several, so we requested an assessment again and it was refused again by the panel last week. It was said he didnt meet the criteria the first time, and second time it just said decision unchanged.

Edited November 9, 2009 by A and A

[Kathryn]

OK - second time you requested it, did the LA follow the correct procedures i.e. did they send you a letter saying they would consider the request and give you a decision after 6 weeks?

 

K x

 

 

[A and A]

OK - second time you requested it, did the LA follow the correct procedures i.e. did they send you a letter saying they would consider the request and give you a decision after 6 weeks?

 

K x

 

No i don't think they did, they just sent the form to fill out for the request. We had to phoned them to make sure they were actually reviewing it and were told the date of the panel meeting.

[Kathryn]

It sounds like they did not treat the second request as an official one.

 

One more question (sorry!) Going back to the first time you made the request, did they follow the correct procedure then? You should have been told in writing that the LA had 6 weeks to consider your request for a statutory assessment, and that you had 29 days to submit your own reports. When they refused at the end of the 6 weeks, you should have had a decision letter telling you of your right to appeal to the tribunal.

 

K x

[A and A]

It sounds like they did not treat the second request as an official one.

 

One more question (sorry!) Going back to the first time you made the request, did they follow the correct procedure then? You should have been told in writing that the LA had 6 weeks to consider your request for a statutory assessment, and that you had 29 days to submit your own reports. When they refused at the end of the 6 weeks, you should have had a decision letter telling you of your right to appeal to the tribunal.

 

K x

 

 

My mistake, they send us a the second time, and yes they did follow procedure first time.

[call me jaded]

What age is he?

[A and A]

What age is he?

 

he was 3 on Halloween, we already had several reports saying significant global delay, and a couple of days before his birthday we got diagnosis of ASD. We should get the full reports from MDT over the next couple of weeks.

 

The sen code of practice says "The LEA will then assess the evidence and decide whether the child's difficulties or developmental delays are likely to be addressed only though a statement of special educational needs. Where a child's educational needs appear to be sufficiently severe or complex as to require attention for much of the child's school life, or that the evidence points to the need for specialist early intervention that cannot be provided in the current setting, then the LEA is likely to conclude that an assessment is necessary.”

 

Considering our son is yet to speak, has no other way of really communicating. He does not play with any toys or seek interaction with anybody else unless it involves food or drink. All the reports we have say that.

 

I don't think it can get much more severe and complex than that, and we know it's definitely going to affect all his school life. So what what more do the LEA want?

 

But do we still have a right to appeal this second time?

Edited November 10, 2009 by A and A

[Kathryn]

Hi A and A - sorry for bombarding you with questions before!

 

As far as I can tell without seeing the correspondence, it looks as though you should have the right of appeal against the seond decision, and that the LA have not followed the correct procedures in not sending the standard information about your right to appeal etc. If so, they have broken several regulations and will be in big trouble.

 

You need to check it out though: it would be a good idea to give the tribunal a ring, 0870 2412555, tell them your situation and ask them to clarify the situation.

 

K x

 

 

[Sally44]

As the LEA have refused to assess I presume that means that professionals have not been asked to assess him or make reports, and that his nursery were not asked for a report either.

However, as he has SEN he has been seen by professionals and has received a diagnosis. Therefore I presume that you do have something in writing, ie. letters of reports. Was all this documentation submitted along with the request for an assessment?

Have you written to the LEA SEN department to ask them why an assessment was refused?

It sounds like you are going to have to appeal.

But make the phone call suggested above to find out what the situation is.

 

You can also go onto your own LEAs website and using the 'search' option type in "SEN Criteria", and see what your own LEA has under this heading. I only recently found out that you can access your own LEA's SEN Criteria in this way. Sometimes this is very useful because it spells out what the LEA want to have happened before an assessment or Statement is agreed to.

[Karen A]

Hi.I am just wondering.I think you have an ASD diagnosis that has been given in the last few weeks.

Did you have the ASD diagnosis at the time the last request to conduct a Statutary Assessment was considered by the panel and was the information submitted to panel ?

This would be very significant evidence.

It may be that this far the nursery have not had the experience to submit the sort of information that the LA needs as evidence.

If you appeal do contact the individual who has recently given the ASD dx and request that they also contact the LA on your behalf.The paediatrician or professional that coordinated the diagnostic panel or MDT will have experience of supporting parents in your situation.Please do enlist their support.

I would think that a meeting should be held soon to follow up on the ASD diagnosis and to offer a package of support that should include a plan regarding options for educational placement in future.Please do voice your concern that the Stsatutary Assessment has been declined at that meeting too.

Have you started to think about school options and do you know whether you would need a Statement for any specialist local provision?

I am just wondering how much time you have.

Karen.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Karen A

[NickyB]

We have just been refused an assessment for our son for the second time in just over 5 months. We are wondering do we still have the right to appeal against the second decision? As the letter from the LEA with the second decision didn't mention anything about our right to appeal.

 

Hi

 

Not sure if it helps, but we had assessment refused twice, and have now appealed against the second refusal and have an appeal hearing date. We received all the same paperwork both times we were refused, giving us the timescales and details of our right to appeal. So, as far as I know, yes you should be able to appeal.

Nicky <'>

[A and A]

I have spoken to our LEA's SEN officer this afternoon and they have decided to let our sons case be seen by the panel again tomorrow, and the next letter they send will have the rights to appeal on it.

 

Just to fill you in on the story. We was first refused begining of july and was told they would aramge an ed psyc to assess him. The ed psyc saw him at nursery on sep 9 th. We then asked how long before the report would be ready and was told in two weeks. So we then decided to request an assessment again, thinking this report would be ready well in time for the panel meeting. Plus we had some new reports from other professionals.

 

During this period we had MDT assessments and a diagnosis of ASD. Once the ed psyc had found about the MDT she decided not to finish her report until after the final MDT meeting. So the report was not ready until 2 days after the panel meeting. We were not pleased at this. but still thought we had enough evidence for an assessment. This request was tuned down again last week.

 

Also i've just spoken a lady from ipsea and she had found out that if you are refused an assessment you can request another assessment a month after and every month after each refusal. The six month wait is only if you've had an assessment that was refused.

 

I can only think the LEA thought we would accept the dicision and not kick up a fuss.

[A and A]

Hi.I am just wondering.I think you have an ASD diagnosis that has been given in the last few weeks.

Did you have the ASD diagnosis at the time the last request to conduct a Statutary Assessment was considered by the panel and was the information submitted to panel ?

This would be very significant evidence.

It may be that this far the nursery have not had the experience to submit the sort of information that the LA needs as evidence.

If you appeal do contact the individual who has recently given the ASD dx and request that they also contact the LA on your behalf.The paediatrician or professional that coordinated the diagnostic panel or MDT will have experience of supporting parents in your situation.Please do enlist their support.

I would think that a meeting should be held soon to follow up on the ASD diagnosis and to offer a package of support that should include a plan regarding options for educational placement in future.Please do voice your concern that the Stsatutary Assessment has been declined at that meeting too.

Have you started to think about school options and do you know whether you would need a Statement for any specialist local provision?

I am just wondering how much time you have.

Karen.

 

Hi Karen, when we told the peadiatrician we were requesting an assessment he wrote a letter to LEA, he said he would support us on this. Obviously that didnt sway the panel either.

 

The LEA have put our son forward for a meeting to go to a special school, we have accepted this, but have said that will not be enough to gain him the progress we think can make before he reaches school age. We are also looking at other possible schools in our area, there is a school specifically for autistic children not far away, but it's in another county. We literally live on the border of two counties. Our youngest goes to nursery in one county and the oldest goes to school in another.

[Sally44]

It sounds like panel did not have quite alot of vital information when they made their decision.

If they are going to look at it again, that is going to mean the diagnosis, EP report and findings of the MDT meeting is also going to be submitted. So there should be less chance of a refusal to assess.

Hope it goes well and the assessment process is started.

 

 

I had a similar experience when my son's previous school applied for top up hours. The Panel met and made the decision that as the EP and autism outreach teacher were going into school that they would prefer to wait and see what recommendations they made to school in their reports. But that wasn't what I was told. School told me the application had been turned down. The EP and AAT went into school but did not produce any 'written' advice to school. School did not realise that the Panel turned them down because they wanted more precise informtion from school as to how they would use those extra hours as advised via the EP and AAT. So school did not re-apply for top up hours because they did not know that they could. Panel do not follow up any applications turned down and therefore the SEN inclusion officer believed everything was a bed of roses in school and did not make any enquiries with the school SENCO at all - eventhough they met on Panel regularly. I eventually found out all the above via the Parent Partnership and made a formal complaint to the LEA. To cut a long story short, I got an apology from the head of commissioning at the LEA, but my son had received a statement and moved school by the time I received it! But during that time he did not receive any support at all for the whole academic year. Since then I NEVER take for granted that things are being done correctly. I always put things in writing and double check everything. The SEN process is very complex and full of paperwork with lots of opportunities for things not to be done correctly or information not be passed on to the relevant person.

[Karen A]

Hi Karen, when we told the peadiatrician we were requesting an assessment he wrote a letter to LEA, he said he would support us on this. Obviously that didnt sway the panel either.

 

The LEA have put our son forward for a meeting to go to a special school, we have accepted this, but have said that will not be enough to gain him the progress we think can make before he reaches school age. We are also looking at other possible schools in our area, there is a school specifically for autistic children not far away, but it's in another county. We literally live on the border of two counties. Our youngest goes to nursery in one county and the oldest goes to school in another.

 

Hi.

I am wondering is a Statement not needed in order to obtain a placement at the special school and is it ASD specialist provision ?

I think if you are in any doubt it would be worth pushing for the Statutary Assessment.Unless the special school is named on a Statement there is no gaurentee that a place willl be available when the time comes.Also even if there is a place it may not provide the specialist ASD input that would be ensured by a Statement.

I do not have specific experience regarding Statements for children as young as three.However if you are hoping to obtain funding for a specific programme via a Statement it may well be expensive for the LEA to fund if it is documented in a Statement.I wonder if the LEA are hoping to delay the Statutary Assessment in order to delay putting early intervention in place.

It may well be worth obtaining some advice from NAS too.

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=143&a=9995

The number is on this page.IPSEA are excellent regarding issues to do with the actual Statement.However funding for early intervention is a specialist area.NAS may well be able to offer some advice regarding options for early intervention and how to go about requesting support is put in place.

Karen.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Karen A

[Kathryn]

I have spoken to our LEA's SEN officer this afternoon and they have decided to let our sons case be seen by the panel again tomorrow, and the next letter they send will have the rights to appeal on it.

 

Well how very gracious of them!! (insert sarcastic smilie here). I hope they don't keep you waitng long for a decision.

 

Also i've just spoken a lady from ipsea and she had found out that if you are refused an assessment you can request another assessment a month after and every month after each refusal.

 

Quicker just to appeal the original refusal.

 

K x

[A and A]

Hi.

I am wondering is a Statement not needed in order to obtain a placement at the special school and is it ASD specialist provision ?

I think if you are in any doubt it would be worth pushing for the Statutary Assessment.Unless the special school is named on a Statement there is no gaurentee that a place willl be available when the time comes.Also even if there is a place it may not provide the specialist ASD input that would be ensured by a Statement.

I do not have specific experience regarding Statements for children as young as three.However if you are hoping to obtain funding for a specific programme via a Statement it may well be expensive for the LEA to fund if it is documented in a Statement.I wonder if the LEA are hoping to delay the Statutary Assessment in order to delay putting early intervention in place.

It may well be worth obtaining some advice from NAS too.

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=143&a=9995

The number is on this page.IPSEA are excellent regarding issues to do with the actual Statement.However funding for early intervention is a specialist area.NAS may well be able to offer some advice regarding options for early intervention and how to go about requesting support is put in place.

Karen.

 

It's not an ASD specialist provision, and we do not not a need a statement for it. It's just the nursery part of the school that is for SEN. We have spoken to the head of the nursery and she said as it was likely he would be accepted and once he was attending they apply for an assessment as well. It's quite possible they are delaying it, because of the early intervention side of things.

 

Also Anna spoke on the phone to SEN officer before i did, and she mentioned the paediatricians support and she was told that he was new and didn't know how the LEA works. Sounds like they may a policy to refuse everything until threat of appeal.

[Sally44]

Just back sure you always go by the book (ie. the SEN CoP). Always put everything in writing. Always follow up telephone conversations with a 'clarification' letter if something relevent is discussed or promised.

[A and A]

Well how very gracious of them!! (insert sarcastic smilie here). I hope they don't keep you waitng long for a decision.

 

 

 

Quicker just to appeal the original refusal.

 

K x

 

 

The SEN officer was trying to tell me that some how our second request for assessment was part of the first and that we had gone over time to appeal and we would have to wait 6 months before we could again.

 

I think when we started demanding reasons why it was refused, they realised we weren't going to give up that easily.

[JsMum]

 

 

Sending you some of these <'> <'> <'> <'> for this very testing time, I cant believe the answers the SEN Officer is saying to you, Im glad your not back down, it is absaloutly imperitive to get the support in as early as possible, go all the way, come back if you need further support, wish you the best of luck

 

Keep Fighting

 

 

JsMumxxxx

 

[Karen A]

It's not an ASD specialist provision, and we do not not a need a statement for it. It's just the nursery part of the school that is for SEN. We have spoken to the head of the nursery and she said as it was likely he would be accepted and once he was attending they apply for an assessment as well. It's quite possible they are delaying it, because of the early intervention side of things.

 

Also Anna spoke on the phone to SEN officer before i did, and she mentioned the paediatricians support and she was told that he was new and didn't know how the LEA works. Sounds like they may a policy to refuse everything until threat of appeal.

 

Sadly that would not be unusual.

If you do not need the Statement for nursery then I think it is still worth pressing for a Statutary Assessment.I pressume that the school application would be to a different school and so enrty to the nursery does nor gaurentee a school place.If so time passes quickly and specialist provision for ASD in schools can be filled early.Please don't let the LEA loose track of timing for sorting out the Statement for school whilst stalling.

Karen.

[Karen A]

and she was told that he was new and didn't know how the LEA works. .

 

That would be deviously and with little regard to the cop then.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Karen A

[Kathryn]

The SEN officer was trying to tell me that some how our second request for assessment was part of the first and that we had gone over time to appeal and we would have to wait 6 months before we could again.

 

Aiiieeeee - it makes me so angry when LEA's give parents inaccurate information! Either they are deliberately lying or just scarily incompetent - either way it's bad.

 

Sadly from the LEA's point of view, it works: many parents probably do get fobbed off and go away, believing what they're told.

 

K x

 

 

 

[NickyB]

Sounds like they may a policy to refuse everything until threat of appeal.

 

That's exactly how it seems here, too. Even the school SENCO said so!!

[thomastank]

 

 

Hi A & A, just to say I'm thinking of you. Can't offer any advice as I haven't been down this route but good luck and keep fighting!!! x

[A and A]

It is infuriating, and makes the future very uncertain. We have to deal with all the red tape and bureaucracy, and add to that LEA''s that bend rules.

 

It makes me very angry when we throw money at people like criminals, addicts and the like. Giving them second, third and fourth chances all at the tax payers expense, while we with our son who is as innocent as a child can be, have to fight for every scrap we can get!

 

Wonder if they can refuse us for a 3rd time?

[A and A]

Yes! result, the LEA have agreed to do an assessment. No need to appeal. A step in the right direction at last, now will look up how long they have to do the assessment.

 

 

[JsMum]

Yes! result, the LEA have agreed to do an assessment. No need to appeal. A step in the right direction at last, now will look up how long they have to do the assessment.

 

Fantastic News made me smile hunny

 

now time to relax a just a little bit but wise to know how long it takes them to assess, dont back down on the statement either.

 

Good Luck.

<'>

JsMumxxxxx

 

[JsMum]

It makes me very angry when we throw money at people like criminals, addicts and the like. Giving them second, third and fourth chances all at the tax payers expense,

 

 

 

It maybe though that criminal had dyslexia or a special need that wasnt met in his education though led him onto a road of criminality or a addict who diverted to drugs to numb out the pain he suffered because some need wasnt met in school or his parents required support, many prisoners and young offenders are the bi product of insuffient support when they were younger, many young offenders have undx dyslexia and even some have undx Autism there is many reasons why people end up a criminal but the crux of it is because the system failed them somewhere along the line.

 

JsMumxxxxx

 

[Kathryn]

Thats great news A and A Hardly surprising they backed down, but good that you didn't have to proceed down the appeal route.

 

Statutory assessment takes 10 weeks from now until the final decision to make a statement or not. There's a handy timetable of the whole process in the Code of Practice. Scroll down to page 120. It's worth getting a hard copy of the COP and the accompanying SEN toolkit - recommended bedtime reading!.

 

K x

[julie1]

Thats great news A and A Hardly surprising they backed down, but good that you didn't have to proceed down the appeal route.

 

Statutory assessment takes 10 weeks from now until the final decision to make a statement or not. There's a handy timetable of the whole process in the Code of Practice. Scroll down to page 120. It's worth getting a hard copy of the COP and the accompanying SEN toolkit - recommended bedtime reading!.

 

K x

I thought it was 26 weeks from start to finish, my dd2 was started in July and i still havent got a ststement they said they are waiting for medical advice.

[Kathryn]

Yes that's right Julie - 26 weeks from the initial parent or school request for a statutory assessment to the making of the final statement, but there are time limits from the various stages in between, which the LEA are supposed to stick to. If it's been more than 10 weeks since the LEA told you in writing they were going to assess, the LEA have gone over the time limit, but they can use the excuse that they are awaiting reports.

 

K x

[Karen A]

Yes! result, the LEA have agreed to do an assessment. No need to appeal. A step in the right direction at last, now will look up how long they have to do the assessment.

 

Great news.

Karen.

 

[A and A]

It maybe though that criminal had dyslexia or a special need that wasnt met in his education though led him onto a road of criminality or a addict who diverted to drugs to numb out the pain he suffered because some need wasnt met in school or his parents required support, many prisoners and young offenders are the bi product of insuffient support when they were younger, many young offenders have undx dyslexia and even some have undx Autism there is many reasons why people end up a criminal but the crux of it is because the system failed them somewhere along the line.

 

JsMumxxxxx

 

Yes that may be true in some cases, but most of them would have known difference between right and wrong. I'm sure there are many, many more people who have been failed by the system and not become criminals or addicts.

 

 

[Karen A]

Yes that may be true in some cases, but most of them would have known difference between right and wrong. I'm sure there are many, many more people who have been failed by the system and not become criminals or addicts.

 

There are many people who were failed by the system who do not turn to crime.However it is well documented that the proportion of individuals within the prison system who have specific learning difficulties or mental health problems is much higher than would be expected.Unfortunately the issue is much more complex than having an awareness of right and wrong.

[A and A]

Are we to expect whole new list of appointments for the assessment or are they more likely to contact the professionals that have already assessed him. Having just gone through and MDT it would seem silly to have to go through all that again.

[A and A]

There are many people who were failed by the system who do not turn to crime.However it is well documented that the proportion of individuals within the prison system who have specific learning difficulties or mental health problems is much higher than would be expected.Unfortunately the issue is much more complex than having an awareness of right and wrong.

 

Yes very sad it is too, that's why more money needs to go to education and SEN to prevent the next gen going that way. The majority in prison are still your everyday person who decided to take what they thought was an easy option rather than work their way through their problems. Most of them are let out then they re offend. Wasted money! Better spent educating and spotting those with problems in their school years than on those that are in the prison system who are beyond help or dont want to be helped.

[Sally44]

Are we to expect whole new list of appointments for the assessment or are they more likely to contact the professionals that have already assessed him. Having just gone through and MDT it would seem silly to have to go through all that again.

 

It depends who assessed and what the purpose of that assessment was.

For example my son was assessed by the EP and SALT (on the education side, as he was in school). And they produced further reports when he was being assessed for a Statement.

He was also assessed by the Developmental Paediatrician, the Clinical Psychologist purely for a diagnosis, and they did not look into how the dx affected him personally or give any advice. They just gave a dx and a leaflet about the Parent Partnership.

 

SALT, OT and Physio (if needed) ARE all educational needs, incase you are told otherwise.

 

It is important to read the CoP because, as you have already found, those in the system either deliberately give false information to parents, or they don't know the system themselves. So you will end up like a PA/Case worker for your own child, but it is essential to ensure that everything is done as it should be.

 

You will also be asked for your views. There is a very long form that you fill in to give all the background information and also a current picture of how your child is and what you feel their diffiuclties are.