Teeth cleaning problems getting worse!

[Mandapanda]

Aw is 14 and we've had loads of problems with toothpaste in the past.

 

Recently he asked for an oscillating toothbrush (the power of advertising ). He has been using it for a while with a toothpaste that he agreed was 'acceptable'.

 

However, the other night I asked him if he was remembering to clean his teeth. He said 'yes, but not very thoroughly'. I asked him why not and he said 'I don't like putting anything in my mouth'. I said perhaps after he'd cleaned his teeth with the toothpaste he could brush some more with just water, but he said 'that won't make any difference'.

 

I'm going to try suggesting he goes back to a manual toothbrush, but not sure if this will make any difference either.

 

Anyone have any ideas? What we need is a sort of ultrasonic cleaner that doesn't have to touch his teeth and doesn't taste of anything - any inventors out there who could oblige

Edited May 3, 2011 by Mandapanda

[gazmcfaz]

might not be of much help but it is common for autistic and aspergers to not like different sensations, such as things on their teeth or mouth. All I can think of is that you ask your gp for help and advice, just say he really doesnt like putting things in there, is there anything he could prescribe, like a special make of paste for sensitive teeth so it wont taste of anything?

[Mandapanda]

Hi

 

We have had some success with something called an Ionic toothbrush. It doesn't vibrate or buzz. It has a battery in and this somehow makes the plaque/dirt attracted to the bristles. He says it does make his teeth feel cleaner. So far so good!

[philipo]

Hi

 

We have had some success with something called an Ionic toothbrush. It doesn't vibrate or buzz. It has a battery in and this somehow makes the plaque/dirt attracted to the bristles. He says it does make his teeth feel cleaner. So far so good!

try alternative toothpastes if you hav'nt already.their is strawberry stuff and for adults there herbal/hippy ones that use sage .General toothpaste is really quite a strong sensation.For me i think that theres a hypersensitive skin thing and toothpaste(ie normal stuff) tends to burn the skin on the inside of my mouth and lips.I 've found I would rather wash my face with water and a smidge of soap and have some problems with water temperature ,i.e. too hot (usually) and too cold.

[oraNurse]

inventors out there who could oblige

 

I have just formulated and launched an unflavoured toothpaste that is also non-foaming for this very reason. I dont want to plug it as i don't want to break forum rules but Lufty hasn't replied to any of my pm's regarding the subject. Google my username to find it. Hope it helps.

 

Charlie

[Mandapanda]

Thanks oranurse - at last!!

[LoubyLou]

Oooh thanks Ora Nurse, that looks brilliant!!!! Wish it was available in shops as with p&p it does get a bit costly. We've tried asking lots of different dentists & the NAS, got through goodness knows how many different brands & are still on "Milk Teeth" at age 12, finally really sympathetic dentist has agreed that this is ok (previous dentists kept saying it wasn't even though we'd tried everything else!). Anyway, off to buy some, definitely worth a try & will report back to dentist too!

 

We did have some success with very gradually adding tiny amounts of a "bearable" brand, but along with all the other plates to keep spinning this one slipped off at some point!

Edited February 3, 2012 by LoubyLou

[Mandapanda]

We have the unflavoured toothpaste. Aw is using it but says he hasn't used it long enough to know whether it's OK, although he said "it doesn't taste of anything so that's good." He hasn't put his old toothpaste to one side yet - but one of them will get cast aside when he has decided. I'll let you know!

 

I got mine on e bay which worked out a bit cheaper.

[butterfly73]

I know that it sometimes help to deal with several stimuli, when the body has deep pressure..

laying down on the floor, pushing against the wall, jump.. that gives a more soothing effect; which works for you.. try out yourself..

 

I know that in some care fascilities gloves are used..like those scrub ones.. cut of one finger and use: tootpaste on it and brush with own finger..

It might also help to feel across the teeth after brushing and eating sth that is really sticky on the teeth... so he feels the difference and hopefully gets an urge to get rid off it..

motivation from your kid is always better!

Likewise with education.. learning prevention and show what happens if you don't brush enough..

When you're willing.. the energy is totally different, than when somebody else wants you to do sth!!

 

A specialized SALT will have technics to sooth in and around the mouth area!

 

love, B'fly

[Mandapanda]

Aw has finally turfed the old toothpaste out of the beaker and is firmly using the unflavoured non-foaming one!

[Paula]

My son now 18 hates brushing his teeth also.He will do it but its a quick in and out job and always after a load of argy bargie.......

 

My son was refered 4 years ago at my request to the community dentist.........youre normal dentist can do this.The3 community dentist specifically deals with children and adults who have various learning or physical disabilities.My son was never scared to go to his dentist but as he got older the dentist at the normal practice was un undertsanding of his needs,abrupt and didnt get that he hated brushing his teeth ect he would just have a go at my son and at me anbd make us feel like we were criminals.........

Anyway the community dentis is great plus they were willing and happy for my son to go once a week if necessary to get his teeth cleaned by the hygenist........free of charge...........and they also applied some sort of special stuff to harden the enamal every time he went it helps with decay.As a result my son has no fillings or cavities forming despite his lack of dental hygene........they also provided the none foaming no taste toothpaste for free........

 

Anyone who feels theire dentist doesnt get there aperger/autistic child should find out and get refered to the community dental service.

 

First thing my son said after his first visit was " i was treat like a human today mum "........they take the time to speak to him and put him at ease stead of just getting down to business...........the appointments are longer too to allow time for this.

[chris54]

One of the problems with a Normal dentist is that because of the way in which NHS patients are funded, they are under pressure and don't have time.

 

I get told to "Make him clean his teeth properly". ya right.

 

The special coating will probably be fluoride, Last time son got a prescription for some high fluoride tooth past.

 

One advantage, or is that disadvantage of being an NHS patient is that at our dentist you get seen by one of the locums, next time son goes he will be seeing a new one. They stay for a year or two then move on.

Edited March 15, 2012 by chris54

[LancsLad]

I am 46 year of age and hate cleaning my teeth and possibly do so twice a week. I have never thought this to be related to my AS but the post re-emerging on the forum since I joined has got me thinking for a couple of days. I have also cleaned my teeth a bit more to try and work things through.

 

I think some of my issues might eminate from early dentist experiences though a lot of my childhood memories have been purposfully blanked off by myself. I know as an adult I can go to the dentist and have an odd attitude which might be viewed as being very good, on reflection I am not too sure. I can recollect with a bit of effort the layout of the waiting room in the two dentists we went to the paint colours, wallpaper, magazines titles, timber mouldings etc... I can not recall anything past the door into the dentists room except my mothers voice.

 

When I see the dentist today and I only go when they threaten me with being struck off an NHS list I am very compliant and can go into an almost zoned out mental space. I know I have a high pain threshold and so they have done a few procedures with me following teeth being broken when I was hit in the mouth with a cricket ball for example which would normally be done under general anasthetic. When I go into A and E in a similar way they say things like this might hurt I can say it might be uncomfortable don't worry about it I can tollerate that sort of thing. What I have realised over the last day is that my mental states are very different between hospital and the dentist. In hospital I am my normal self switched on, want to know what is happening, have to look and would join in if I could. When i had facial surgery wanted to know all about the tools they were going to use in the opperation whilst on the trolly in the operating theatre. Whilst this is not normal for many, it is for me and it is what I am like in every other aspect of life with one exception the dentist.

 

In my teeth cleaning trial over the past two days I have tried to find something which I really do not like in the experience to see if that might be of insight to someone else, to be honest I can not. Toothpaste is just another taste would not eat the stuff but they are not unpleasant but might be a taste that you have to get used to. I am not bothered with using an electric toothbrush, the noise is a bit grating but within tolerence levels for me, might not be for someone else. When at University I cleaned my teeth every day but this was becuase my special project at the time of moving away from home was to have a 'super routine' to help me get through the experience. On returning home gone back to old habits which are poor.

 

The only conclusion I can draw is as far as teeth cleaning goes I am completely neutral about it and my teeth in general, they are something that are there, if I loose one so what, I have lost a couple through injuries. I look after my body really well, cut my nails, clean ears, massage my legs keep my feet in good working order which is important given the amount of exercise I do the only thing I do not look after is my teeth. There has to be a reason for this and I believe it is tied up in also having blanked off my childhood experiences of the detists room. As a person I am very defensive of my personal space I do not like people touching me at times and that includes my partner and son. To have a dentist go inside my mouth would be a real violation of this space. I think my attitude about wanting to be involved in any procedure at hospital is also about inviting nurses, doctors and surgeons into this space on my terms. If I cant hold something like gauze to clean an injury, I will want to touch myself as close to the injury as possible to share the contact, medical staff think I am going to dive in if they hurt me I have to really reasure them I will not and to carry on I will be fine but this is how I want it to be. I suspect I was never given that opportunity as a child, they were probably very nice and the adults kind of lied to me, didn't say what it was all about in fact duped me and then there was a betrayal of trust and the dentist kind of went for it, in their mind simply doing what they had to do as quickly as possible. The only thing I can recollect from this time is my mums voice saying it will all be over soon. I know what i am about to say is contencious but how similar is this to rape? I was not consenting, it was intrusive and not a pleasant experience. Not for one minute do I want anyone to think I am diminishing sexual rape as being akin to going to the dentist, but it is the only way I can make sense of my experiences. I know I am now treading a fine line in the post.

 

My totally compliant response to the dentist today might be partly explained from this perspective, my attitude is do what you are going to do, but i am not going to put one singular bit of emotional energy into the process, I am not interested. My attitude to teeth is they are a part of me that I acknowledge is there but I have no emotional relationship with, I simply do not care one way or the other. I have questioned myself why if there are no practical or physical reasons do I not clean my teeth every day. My answer is psychologically I suspect I have banished this aspect of me away some time ago.

 

Working these issues through has been difficult and emotional and these are the conclusions I have drawn for myself. it has left me asking where should I go next. I have rarely cleaned my teeth so they must be a mess right, answer no. My dentist says my teeth are strong she always complains about my gum edges that this might lead to gum disease it never does. I do have fillings which were all put in over 20 years ago when I suspect dentists had to find something to do, I have not needed another one since. The only issues i have are through severe trauma which is just bad luck, rugby boot in the face type of stuff nothing to do with teeth cleaning. Before dentists, tooth brushes and toothpaste what would my mouth be like in medieval times, I suspect pretty much the same. I do not clean my dogs teeth and they have never had a problem their culmative lives adding up to easily over a 100. I have to ask how much of this teeth behaviour is practical and how much of it cultural? Shold we try to enforce cultural norms when they may not be practical, what is reasonable?

 

This last point raises an interesting dilema how far should you push your child to do something. I will take it to extreme on purpose and then you decide how far back you would go untill it feels comfortable. Would you say to a child go through the white door and a man in a white coat who you never see in your real life is going to sexually rape you, I will stand there and watch and support his actions though you might sense i don't like it, it will all be worth it because you will get a sticker which says I have been a very good child at the end of it, then we close the door and you dont need to see the man for a while if you didn't really like it, now that can't be bad can it? Doesn't sound to good does it to be honest. We might say it is not rape it is only the dentist and for us that might be true, but our personal feelings are irrelevant, what really matters is how does the individual see it. I suspect that as a child it was not a case of you might not like this, I believe given my subsequent actions it must have felt like a complete and utter violation of my basic rights as I saw them as a young ASD individual. I have found out in my life I behave in the ways i do because there is a reason, it isn't random behavior, sometimes these behavious take a bit of working out as they are complex and often deep rooted in my past.

 

I am not saying this is how it will be in your childrens lives and that their experiences will be the same. But I think I am an intelligent and rational individual and this was the only way I could make sense of my current position in respect to what has happened in my life, and after a day or so these are my own personal conclusions. I was not too sure about sharing them because they have kind of shocked me a bit, and I was thinking of leaving it as a small step forwards in my own life. If you can not see it from this perspective fine, if it makes you think a lot then sorry but adding to the post was a calculated risk and on balance I think this is a post which might develop some awareness of what it might be like having AS and facing a dentist, remember no two AS individuals are the same, and I have been described by experts as having very strong traits so this might be an extreme experience. I promise I have not exhagerated anything and this is how it feels for me, please respect that and do not come back and say I am talking rubish in respect to my own life. Feel free to say you think I am talking rubish in respect to your own child's as that is not personal and doesn't devalue my own conclusions.

 

Hope this adds to the post, sorry its not a recomendation of a toothpaste brand though for many I hope that makes the difference and this post is way off the mark, really hope so.

[chris54]

Although its a job to get my son to clean his teeth, he is not the slightest bit worried by the dentist, He has had a few filling done with no bother at all.

 

All I can remember about my early experiences of the dentist is that as a NHS patient you went on a Saturday, you went along without appointments and waited you turn. Fillings were done without any form of pain relief. If you needed an extraction you went on a weekday.

 

In my late teens,early twenties, I went regular to the dentist, I now realise that a lot of the treatment was probably unnecessary by today's standard, But then they (NHS) were payed by the filling or extraction so the more they did the better for their bank balance.

Also hygiene, he would have 2 or even 3 patents on the go at the same time moving from room to room, doing a bit on one then moving on to the next one.

 

There have been long gaps when I have not seen a dentist. Am desperately trying to hang on to the last few teeth I have left. Dentist is already talking dentures.

Edited March 17, 2012 by chris54

[Mandapanda]

Hi LancsLad

 

Thanks for investigating this problem yourself. It's always interesting to have information from someone who knows. I do understand what you're saying about feeling violated, I see that with my son. He doesn't like being touched, he doesn't like different tastes and smells, and when he goes to the dentist he is not just touched but they put gloved hands in his mouth. It is a very intrusive experience for him, although perhaps for different reasons to yourself.

 

Hi chris54

 

Ewww, it is horrifying when you look back at medical practices and lack of hygiene, but I guess they didn't know, or didn't consider it a major problem cutting corners.

 

Hi Paula

 

Our dentist did say she would refer Aw to the Specialist Dentist but only after he visited her - which he wouldn't!!

[darkshine]

LansLad, your post has reminded of my childhood experiences with the dentist...

 

My first dentist was set up in a house, there was a rocking horse in the waiting room, it was very rich man's study crossed with a waiting room kinda place - there were huge bookshelves and maroon or green leather chairs with brass studs.

 

I hated that dentist, I hated hated hated him - I have long blocked off the full experience - but I do remember he was a scary man, he could tell what I'd eaten and scared the hell out me - I avoided going as much as a child can.

 

It all ended when I was about 9 - I just went crazy, I found a staple remover in my mum's work things - this is a hinged device with 2 sets of claw things that pincer together - I ranted on about how I was going to stab his hand if he came anywhere near me - my mum cancelled the appointment and we never went back.

 

Then we went to another place - like a health centre - that lasted for 2 years and then a lady I'd never seen said that I needed a filling and she did it then squirted neat milton in my mouth, some of it went in my throat and I was choking and trying not to be sick and my eyes were streaming, it was about a hundred times worse than getting swimming pool water up your nose - and that's bad!!!

 

I hate cleaning my teeth but I do it - but then my life has been a long battle of keeping teeth - I go to the dentist quite regularly as its constant work keeping them (plus I grind my teeth so I have to wear bite guard things when I sleep). I too have learnt to zone off it is really hard at times but it works.

 

It's been a long road - at one point I couldn't clean my teeth without gagging (I say at one point - this point lasted over 10 years) and learning to wear something in your mouth every time you sleep or your teeth grind has been very difficult (that took 2 years to do without feeling sick).

 

Also as a child I refused to let the doctor put that lolly stick thing in my mouth - I refused this vehemently from the age of 4 or 5 - this mattered as I had various throat problems throughout my childhood (pharyngitis, laryngitis, and a few bouts of tonsillitis). The doctor gave up trying by the time I was seven - maybe he could tell from the look on my face....

 

A doctor actually tried to do this a year or two ago when I had a virus and I'm like "you aren't putting that thing anywhere near me"

[JeanneA]

Hi Glen never wanted to clean his teeth when he was younger. It's only since he has been older that Glen has been much better at cleaning his teeth and in fact is quite good at cleaning them now, I guess he's just got better as he's gotten older.