living with aspergers series (episode 4) friend or fake?

[A-S warrior]

i know its not been long since my last episode, but its raining outside on a saturday night and im bored.

 

now this is a subject which is quite easy for me, because there isnt many pepole i trust, and im sceptical of most pepole. theres only really 2 or 3 pepole other than familly that i trust, my ex girlfriend, and a couple of my mates. and thats it. everybody else is just another person i 'know'. but while thats all fine and good for me it may not be for you. thats were uncle A-S comes in. its quite easy actully to tell the friends from the fakes, and im about to tell you how.

 

the checklist for the fakes.

they:

 

accept you when it suits them, and then they drop you in the dirt.

 

use you as a performance monkey to laugh at.

 

they use your vunrabilitys as a tool for there humor.

 

give you fake compliments.

 

peer pressure you into something you dont want to do, or know is wrong.

 

only ever seem to be nice when they see that they can get something out of you. all of a sudden your one of the lads.

 

guilt trip you when you dont do something they want you to do.

 

its always your round at the bar (funny that innit?)

 

never give you sincere compliments when its due, rather they give you jelous critisisum and will try and knock you off your pedistal.

 

on a night out they wont care how you get home.

 

when you tell them something personal, there very unhelpful and may go and tell everyone about it.

 

there unhelpful, unrelaible, never return your calls, ignore your texts, dont turn up when your arrange something. and dont give you a good reason for any of it.

 

 

and more importantley they dont respect you for what you are.

 

 

 

the checklist for the friends.

 

accept you all the time and see you as an equal.

 

treat you fairly.

 

give you truthfull and deserving compliments,

 

but, also give you honest and constructive advice in your best interest. (they do this in quietly as to not embarrass you)

 

never make you do anything you dont want to do.

 

always have your back when your broke, its never too expensive for them if you need it.

 

when you tell them something personal they will do what they can to help, and will listen to you, and keep it between the two of you.

 

they see all your strenghs and good points about you, and never disscuss your weaknesess. if they do, they will always counter balance it with at least 2 of your strong points. (example) whenever i tell a friend something i dont like about myself they always seem to say, yes but your kind your funny.... see what i mean?

 

they will always be there to help you, no matter what time of day it is, it will never be too much of a problem.

 

they will always, always, always, take you as they find you. they will never judge never joke about your apperance and never notice if your having a bad hair day.

 

if you arange to meet they will seldom let you down, if they do let you down they will have a good reason for it.

 

if your feeling down, they will pick you up.

 

 

and more importantley they respect you for who you are, and what you are, and will never judge you.

 

 

 

 

 

from my experience, the best friends are the ones that started off as a general acquaintance, and then they proved themselves as friends when the time came. my advice is keep pepole at arms length until they display the signs shown in the friends checklist.

 

rember, your not lucky to have them as a friend,

 

there lucky to have you as a friend.

[A-S warrior]

http://www.asd-forum...ting-that-girl/ episode 1

 

http://www.asd-forum...ke-and-mirrors/ episode 2

 

http://www.asd-forum...e-3-motivation/ episode 3

Edited July 8, 2012 by A-S warrior

[Mike_GX101]

So have you never been late for something? Or had problems receiving text messages only to then be the receiver of thick flack due to having not responded to someone you didn't even know had texted you?!? Have you never been asked by a woman "does my 'behind' look big in this?" and had to give them a compliment of "no" whatever the answer is?!? Tell them the truth by saying "yes" and you're likely to leave the poor woman in tears and maybe worse - they might even throw a plate at you!

 

I mean some of the things about spotting the so called "fakes" are true such as the ones to whom you confide but who end up telling everyone. Then there are those who leave you in the lurch and don't give you a lift back however dire your circumstances are (I have many words for those people I can't say here!). Then you are right again - there are those people who never pay for things in bars, like potential dates who expect the man to pay for every drink which is great if the relationship is going to ignite later on but some women (and I'm not saying all women!!) just use this tactic whether they intend dating or not - and I even know (knew) one or two who would deliberately go out with no money and it would be like a sport for them to see how many drinks they could get out of people.

 

I think you missed one though from your "friends" list and this is a big one: learn to forgive...because not everyone is perfect and not everyone will get it right all the time. I think you have a lot to learn to be honest and you need to give a little - ever heard the expression "a little give and take"? If you can't forgive then you will end up very very lonely. Because everyone makes mistakes - and I bet you do too and you hope others will forgive you as well??

 

Treat others as you would want to be treated in return.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Mike_GX101

[robert7111a]

So how does one "find" friends - especially the good ones?

 

Most of the people I work with are decent colleagues but I would certainly not call them friends

[darkshine]

Robert, you don't just go out and find a friend, it's something that takes time, only time tells whether people are a friend or not. Yes there's some people that feel like a friend quite quickly - but time is still the big tester, some things change, sometimes you find out things you don't like, and sometimes things just peter off into nothing.

 

Friends can be passing things or they can be lifelong and anything in between.

 

You might go on a conference and find a friend for a day, a work colleague could be a friend in that context, or you might meet someone who is someone to stay in your life for a very long time - there's so many definitions and varying degrees of friendship.

 

Also you can have deep friendships where you would lay down and die for them and tell them things that are so secret and stuff - and there can be shallower friendships like having a mate to go to the pub with, or watch sport with, or go shopping with or do activities with or talk about a shared interest and only have that in common.

 

I think there can be value in all types so long as the context is defined

 

From AS Warrior's lists, I would say he is defining true friends, the kind that stay in our lives for a bit longer, and I'd agree with a lot of what he said, although Mike_GX101 made a good point about forgiveness...

 

When I look at my personal relationships with people who call themselves friends, I can think of only 2 people who would fit that bill, and even then they cannot possibly always be perfect. One is busy a lot and my life is so deep and depressing that it's hard for that friend to stay in this world with me - I understand that and we've known each other for half our lives nearly now - but I know if I email and say "I need you" that this friend will be there as much as is possible. I don't ask that often, as I keep myself pretty isolated because I know it has a negative effect if I bare my soul too much to this friend.

 

The other friend is very recent and although it feels like friendship and I like the person, I obviously cannot see into the future, I can't know everything and neither can that friend.

 

Either way, I think sometimes we have to give people a chance at entering our little worlds and see if they fancy stopping by in our lives for a bit - like I said - only time will tell.

 

Opportunities do not come along very often for me, I don't trust, I keep people at arms length, hell I even have a whole fortress as a defence with an army standing there. It isn't exactly a position that makes it easy for people to know me, but that's a result of being screwed over so many times.

 

So I feel that sometimes we have to compromise when we come across people who look like they want to try and get to know us - we have to make an effort, we have to have give and take - and it doesn't have to be something that is rushed into - but out there somewhere are people who can be good friends, but if we don't give them a chance how can they ever even try? And after all, we aren't perfect ourselves are we? We'll ###### up, get things wrong, say the wrong things - but when you think a person is worth the effort you'll figure a way round those things I guess....

[A-S warrior]

So have you never been late for something? Or had problems receiving text messages only to then be the receiver of thick flack due to having not responded to someone you didn't even know had texted you?!? Have you never been asked by a woman "does my 'behind' look big in this?" and had to give them a compliment

 

im talking reapeated cases, and obvious dont give a ###### mentality. plus, you would get your awnser either way because if they do return your call or text they will be upset (if there a friend) episode 1 covers women, with some good posts from robert7111a

[A-S warrior]

So how does one "find" friends - especially the good ones?

 

Most of the people I work with are decent colleagues but I would certainly not call them friends

 

 

they find you, and as i said alot of the good friends start off as acquaintances, you slowly build up trust and a strong friendship. if you suddenly meet someone and next day your best buddies, theres usually something wrong.

[A-S warrior]

@darkshine, trust is a funny thing. most of my 'friends' i dont trust any further than i can throw them. ive been sold down the river before, had my ass handed to me, you name it. i have a sence of self worth, and i dont need anybody. on the same note however, sometimes we have to take a blind leap of faith in order to obtain friendships, because if we never take that chance we,ll never know if we can trust them or not. although i must admit, i really aint that bothered, i prefer to walk alone, i like my own company, and i always have a blast. 1 man army me, always will be. (until the next woman comes along)

[darkshine]

And that's why my mind is a less healthy place Warrior, cuz I don't trust for similar reason, yet my self-worth is low, so I am a lot more guarded because I know that opens me up to being ###### around even more.

 

 

I like my own company and have a lot of loner tendencies - but I know that other people can add value to our lives.

 

 

I am trying to take chances at trusting people, I really am, and it's a massive challenge, but dropping my guard and staying where I am is difficult when the self-preservation instinct tells me to run a mile and stay closed off...

 

 

That is my own problem - I can choose to be closed off and alone - which I don't really like.... Or I can try and push my boundaries, challenge my beliefs and fears and actually give things a go, and take some risks.

 

 

Someone said to me, if you can't love or like yourself then why should anyone else? And I always thought that meant that everyone must hate me and that nobody would ever like me - but people seem to - even though I find it hard to believe....

 

 

I guess I'm afraid that people won't like what they see - because I don't like what I see... and I find it hard to understand how they see things that I don't see.

 

 

And as much as I respect your one man army - I know that there are times when I can achieve so much more when I work with someone and it's an equal relationship.

Edited July 8, 2012 by darkshine

[robert7111a]

they find you, and as i said alot of the good friends start off as acquaintances, you slowly build up trust and a strong friendship.

 

...but nobody has found me...

 

You might go on a conference and find a friend for a day, a work colleague could be a friend in that context, or you might meet someone who is someone to stay in your life for a very long time - there's so many definitions and varying degrees of friendship.

 

Darkshine, yes you are right about the context as I have found "friends" for the day to help get me through but my wife is my only "lifelong friend". And yes Warrior does mean true friends rather than superficial ones that will use me for convenience. However, I can't go down the pub with my wife, nor do I have anyone that I could go with and banter and "learn" social chit-chat/BL etc.

 

I took my daughter and one of her friends on the train to a big shopping mall today and trying to be normal and talk to these two teens was quite difficult. I think I was trying to "fit in" but from their point of view, I'm just the old dad from a completely different generation. But if I can't try and talk to her friends, who else is there?

[Lyndalou]

I don't think friendship in it's many forms can be reduced to 'lists' of what makes a good friend and what doesn't although I agree with a number of points that Warrior raises.

 

I must 'look' like someone who has friends. Quite bizarrely, after mentioning to two professionals my belief I have AS, they both said to me something along the lines of 'You've done ok for yourself then, I mean you have friends and have a nice life'. I wanted to say something like 'Excuse me but you have absolutely no knowledge of me and my life as I've never told you anything about it so how do you know I have friends and what my life is like?' However, I let it slide on both occasions, just smiled and nodded....

 

I have friends. In my lifetime, I have had hundreds of who I would consider friends but who would I pick up the phone to speak to if I was in crisis or extremely upset? No-one apart from my mum, sister or my husband. The first friend I spoke to when I was in a real state after making my 'discovery' about AS was a friend I have known for 17 years who I would consider to be my 'best' friend but absolute fear still gripped me that our friendship would be over after our conversation took place. As it turns out, she doesn't accept my self-diagnosis but she still accepts me as her friend and we will continue to keep in touch sporadically and perhaps see each other twice a year. She herself matter-of-factly stated to me when I last visited around a month ago that she doesn't really have anyone she considers friends these days apart from me, she only normally spends time with her husband and her parents and she 'puts up with' her colleagues at work . She 'doesn't have time' for friendships and it doesn't bother her....

 

I love spending time with people but I simply don't trust people. I probably don't even fully trust my husband. If I have to be completely honest, I generally don't view friendships as long-term and unfortunately, if the friendship does become longer-term and I may have shared many things with them and they with me, the trust doesn't really grow. I am always anticipating 'the end'. When it happens, I hurt but perhaps I don't hurt as much as I would if I had invested my trust in them fully. It is this 'distance' that has really upset me over the years but the upside means that I am very self-reliant.

 

It may never have been very 'healthy' but especially when I was younger I walked away before I was walked away from. It's a bit like ending a romantic relationship when you start to see the writing beginning to appear on the wall so that you have the upper hand and I did that too....a lot. Manys a time, I'll bet my friends never saw it coming but it meant that I didn't have to endure the hours spent willing the phone to ring, worrying about the length of time I had left it since last contacting them or I didn't have to sit with them again wondering if they liked me or they just felt a bit sorry for me or were putting up with me until a more exciting, funny or interesting person came along (and I tried my damnedest to be the most exciting, funny and interesting person I could possibly be). Most likely, because of this I probably fell into the 'not a real friend' category but in my short-term friendship mode I was probably the most faithful and dependable friend someone could have!

 

We are a product of our past experiences and my teens destroyed my faith in people in general and I don't know if the damage can ever be fully undone in my case. I think Warrior's lists work a little better in the context of a person who has a very positive world view and perhaps just a hint of idealism (nothing wrong there but many of us are a bit more cynical). People hurt each other, knowingly and unknowingly. Sometimes, friendships can become stronger through adversity and if people are willing to say 'Sorry'. Sometimes, people don't accept 'Sorry', sometimes people weigh up whether or not they want to support or stand by other people against what they are going through in their own lives and they might think the effort is worth it and sometimes they won't. Good people do bad things and to be a friend you don't necessarily have to be the archetypal 'good' person - 'good', like 'normal' is completely subjective! They might be a bl00dy good friend to someone but it might not necessarily be you!

 

Hope this makes sense!

 

Happy friend hunting

[darkshine]

...but nobody has found me...

 

 

 

Darkshine, yes you are right about the context as I have found "friends" for the day to help get me through but my wife is my only "lifelong friend". And yes Warrior does mean true friends rather than superficial ones that will use me for convenience. However, I can't go down the pub with my wife, nor do I have anyone that I could go with and banter and "learn" social chit-chat/BL etc.

 

I took my daughter and one of her friends on the train to a big shopping mall today and trying to be normal and talk to these two teens was quite difficult. I think I was trying to "fit in" but from their point of view, I'm just the old dad from a completely different generation. But if I can't try and talk to her friends, who else is there?

 

 

There's quite a few people on here who like you, including me - you gotta start somewhere and - you do, I do, we all do, I bet you've spoke more to people on this forum than you would if you went down the pub!

 

Sometimes talking with people can be really really hard and sometimes we have to show interest in things that we wouldn't necessarily be interested in - but that kinda stuff can broaden our horizons and it can enrich our lives - and maybe because it's such an effort, some value can be found later on.

 

I think we just have to keep trying you know? It's hard as well cuz of AS stuff (I try not to constantly mention AS - but it is a factor) but things like social anxiety and not knowing what to say can be crippling, and in response to that, I'd say we just have to keep plodding along and trying to push ourselves you know?

 

You never know what's out there - but if you don't look and don't try for it - then it won't happen I guess - at least that's what I'm trying to tell myself.

 

I've spent a long time on my own - I want to change that, the only way it will change is if I push my boundaries, stretch my limits and try to learn - I'll probably make mistakes, but I know that the people who are worthwhile will forgive them... As part of my self-preservation I went through a long time of pushing people away, to look after myself, and I've had a fair amount of "bad luck" with people. I don't find things like friendship to be easy at all. But I do get tired of being a loner all the time...

 

I hope that by building certain skills on this forum, that some of that can later be applied in "real life" situations...

 

So who else is there? There's us - on this forum and maybe it can be a start - cuz I bet you have to push yourself sometimes on here to just start talking to people, and from what I see you do a good job at it, maybe you can build from there too?

Edited July 8, 2012 by darkshine

[darkshine]

I generally don't view friendships as long-term and unfortunately, if the friendship does become longer-term and I may have shared many things with them and they with me, the trust doesn't really grow. I am always anticipating 'the end'. When it happens, I hurt but perhaps I don't hurt as much as I would if I had invested my trust in them fully. It is this 'distance' that has really upset me over the years but the upside means that I am very self-reliant.

 

I struggle with that too, anticipating the end, I'm constantly questioning, wondering, wanting definitions and stuff and I find trust so very very hard - and it hurts when people drop me, it kills when certain people drop me, I crave certainty, I crave definition - but it can't always happen...

 

I have no problem with any person either wanting or not wanting friends - that is everyone's choice.

 

But when I look at myself, I know all my defensiveness is me trying to protect myself - but I have to say that when certain people come along, and I start considering trusting them, like my friend from years ago, and it's so scary it makes me totally freak out - but I don't think we have to give trust all at once, it's a working thing, it starts with people not screwing us over to start with, and then can be built upon a little bit at a time - but it can never pass a certain stage if we don't give enough trust to build upon - because if that distance is always there it can be hurtful too, because it can lead to other questions that aren't comfortable, questions about acceptance and people liking us for who we are - and how can they ever do that if we never show ourselves to people?

 

Most of my "friends" just take from me, even the long term one, I don't ask things of most of them, they don't wanna hear about my life, my mind, my thoughts, my problems... I took a chance with the longer term one a month or so ago and told them that I had AS - I was bricking it and was totally shocked at the accepting response - that has now made a possible door open, it is my choice whether I discuss things further, and I probably won't, but at least I know that there's some give from that person, and that they didn't betray my trust.

 

 

I don't think we have to hand all our trust to someone on a plate and risk everything at once... and of the people who call themselves my friends, I can talk to 2 out of half a dozen, but even then I don't always do that, I don't let them in most of the time, because I don't think they'll like what they see, so when I do take chances I get really uncomfortable cuz I remember all the times I've been hurt or used or screwed over I freak out. But on the rare occasion I give a person a bit of trust, or a lot of trust, if they treat me with respect and they then trust me and give me trust back, I have to say to myself - how far are you willing to take this?

 

The truth is I don't know - but I know that if I don't even try then I will miss out on the good things about friends - and I believe that people who step into our strange little worlds and don't do a runner, are worth taking a harder look at, and I think it is worth asking ourselves whether we are willing to just take a chance.

[A-S warrior]

...but nobody has found me...

 

 

ok maaaybe me saying 'they find you' was a bit false, i think it comes down to being open to the idea of trusting someone enough that you can call them a friend. me? i trust no one 100% not even my own mother, why? no reason other than i see life as a jungle, you even beem the slightest bit of weakness and pepole will jump on you like a pack of wolves. the true friends come from a good old chat with that funny guy at the chess club, and you have frequent chats and eventully form an aliance. i,ll be honest, ive sold out many pepole, only becaue i saw them as a 3 legged dog. true friends are an unbreakable alliance, and yes i do have pepole in my life that are in the true friends checklist, and stangley enough both of those pepole were due to women. i broke up with my girlfriend and was reunited from a friend from many years ago, and another friend of mine is going through a divorce. so in my expeience they surface through like a jewel in the rough, and sometimes they just turm up in our lives by chance.

[A-S warrior]

hell, i havent even met darkshine, lancs etc and i (kind of) trust them. lancslad would be happy for me to spend a day with his son, and im talking to a certain young lady at the moment and shes shared alot of her life with me, in short this forum is aladins cave for finding friends, in fact some of the best moments of my last few months have been behind this computer screen, and i know rob is doing alright on here as ive seen most of your posts.

Edited July 8, 2012 by A-S warrior

[trekster]

i know its not been long since my last episode, but its raining outside on a saturday night and im bored.

 

***Despite my comments below i really do appreciate your insights into the world im just really stuck at the moment.

 

now this is a subject which is quite easy for me, because there isnt many pepole i trust, and im sceptical of most pepole. theres only really 2 or 3 pepole other than familly that i trust, my ex girlfriend, and a couple of my mates. and thats it. everybody else is just another person i 'know'. but while thats all fine and good for me it may not be for you. thats were uncle A-S comes in. its quite easy actully to tell the friends from the fakes, and im about to tell you how.

 

***i have highlighted all the behaviours i see in people i know and put questions next to the ones im unsure if they are repeat offenders.

 

the checklist for the fakes.

they:

 

accept you when it suits them, and then they drop you in the dirt.

 

use you as a performance monkey to laugh at. (havent seen the laughing recently but the '2 faced' behaviour springs to mind here).

 

they use your vunrabilitys as a tool for there humor.

 

give you fake compliments. How do you know they are fake?

 

peer pressure you into something you dont want to do, or know is wrong. Story of my life that one but making my wishes clear is a major problem for me. How do i know that they are aware something is wrong? When a true friend tells me this is the case?

 

only ever seem to be nice when they see that they can get something out of you. all of a sudden your one of the lads. Isn't that something many spectrummies do without realising though?

 

guilt trip you when you dont do something they want you to do. hmm giving feedback and recieving it are really tricky.

 

its always your round at the bar (funny that innit?)

 

never give you sincere compliments when its due, rather they give you jelous critisisum and will try and knock you off your pedistal. Ive lost track of the number of times a few particular individuals have done this to or about me.

 

on a night out they wont care how you get home. Really pleased i can offer true friends a lift home

 

when you tell them something personal, there very unhelpful and may go and tell everyone about it. This can be a CPTSD issue as well having to keep a really hard secret for so long and just are unable to know when to use discression. I've been the subject of gossip for most of my life.

 

there unhelpful, unrelaible, never return your calls, ignore your texts, dont turn up when your arrange something. and dont give you a good reason for any of it. That depends on what someone classes as a good reason. i tend to work on a 'confirm you are going basis' when i can, also i can become so overloaded that i cannot manage a text message let alone a phone call. My phone threads conversations so im fine with putting 'see you there?' at the end of reminder texts. i dont just meet friends for the sake of it, there has to be some sort of reason for doing so.

 

 

and more importantley they dont respect you for what you are. i have this problem with family as well with the exception of 2 members. They are so medical model disability types in my family. Also disabilities are wrong and banned subjects at times even at disability related groups!

 

 

 

the checklist for the friends.

 

accept you all the time and see you as an equal.

 

**i happen to volunteer at groups where my friends attend i dont feel like their equal whether they treat me that way or not. In fact i was told when i was a teenager that treating everyone as my equal was my problem. i do the complete opposite and now thats wrong as well. grrrr

 

treat you fairly. **Very few of my friends ask if theres a reason why i do something, they tend to react as though i have done it on purpose. Then again without explanations for so called 'small' changes my CPTSD takes hold. The main rules i have with friends are that an apology even ages after the event will be accepted by them and i hope they can do the same for me.

 

give you truthfull and deserving compliments, **Weird thing is how do i react to them if i cannot tell how real they are?

 

but, also give you honest and constructive advice in your best interest. (they do this in quietly as to not embarrass you)

**With the exception to email, some text messages and online chat this rarely happens. Only i know what is in my best interest.

 

never make you do anything you dont want to do.

**im getting a lot of that at the moment because im so unmotivated to do even the most basic of tasks.

 

always have your back when your broke, its never too expensive for them if you need it.

**thats an interesting 1, so far this hasnt happened.

 

when you tell them something personal they will do what they can to help, and will listen to you, and keep it between the two of you.

**if i do feel the need to tell someone i will keep it annonymous. There are occassions when something 'private' is best mentioned to someone else. eg my friend wishes to run away soon so ive told him 'dont tell me where you are therefore i cant tell anyone either'. He hasnt mentioned that intent recently though.

 

they see all your strenghs and good points about you, and never disscuss your weaknesess. if they do, they will always counter balance it with at least 2 of your strong points. (example) whenever i tell a friend something i dont like about myself they always seem to say, yes but your kind your funny.... see what i mean?

**i rarely show my strengths IRL except at places such as Autscape. ive even said to my friends, if you wish to see the real me then come to autscape. ive been to a few mates houses on a regular basis which is just as good.

 

they will always be there to help you, no matter what time of day it is, it will never be too much of a problem.

**im like that with friends who have no one else especially. i tend to attend various autism related meetings and other types of meetings, come on here and other forums but i almost burnt myself out being on 24 hour call.

 

they will always, always, always, take you as they find you. they will never judge never joke about your apperance and never notice if your having a bad hair day.

**Now this is a difficult one, part of ASD is appearing that we're judging people with the 'hidden meanings' behind what we say.

 

if you arange to meet they will seldom let you down, if they do let you down they will have a good reason for it.

**Doh! really need to sort out my planner so i am less likely to forget that i was due to meet someone. When i say 'i forgot' i honestly mean 'i accidentally forgot'.

 

if your feeling down, they will pick you up.

i love (proverbially) mates like these especially ones that offer me practical solutions or remind me of how i handled that problem in the past.

 

 

and more importantley they respect you for who you are, and what you are, and will never judge you.

**This is something i try and do but as i dont have any NT friends it is hard work trying to work out what caused any fall outs we had (people have to come up to me say 'we have a problem' then avoid giving up on trying to resolve the problem until it is resolved). i prefer to plough myself into my work but trying to get my friends to stick up and fight back against what they percieve is wrong hurts like anything.

 

from my experience, the best friends are the ones that started off as a general acquaintance, and then they proved themselves as friends when the time came. my advice is keep pepole at arms length until they display the signs shown in the friends checklist.

 

rember, your not lucky to have them as a friend,

 

there lucky to have you as a friend.

Strange you say that as i dont beleive in luck.

[A-S warrior]

 

 

 

my mature response will come tomorrow, goodnight!

[darkshine]

Can't wait for the mature response

[robert7111a]

 

 

 

There's quite a few people on here who like you, including me - you gotta start somewhere and - you do, I do, we all do, I bet you've spoke more to people on this forum than you would if you went down the pub!

 

Oh thank you Darkshine, I am really touched by your kind comments. And yes, apart from my patients, I have indeed spoken to more people on this forum than down the pub - especially as I very rarely go down the pub!

 

 

Sometimes talking with people can be really really hard and sometimes we have to show interest in things that we wouldn't necessarily be interested in - but that kinda stuff can broaden our horizons and it can enrich our lives - and maybe because it's such an effort, some value can be found later on.

 

I think we just have to keep trying you know? It's hard as well cuz of AS stuff (I try not to constantly mention AS - but it is a factor) but things like social anxiety and not knowing what to say can be crippling, and in response to that, I'd say we just have to keep plodding along and trying to push ourselves you know?

 

You never know what's out there - but if you don't look and don't try for it - then it won't happen I guess - at least that's what I'm trying to tell myself.

 

I've spent a long time on my own - I want to change that, the only way it will change is if I push my boundaries, stretch my limits and try to learn - I'll probably make mistakes, but I know that the people who are worthwhile will forgive them... As part of my self-preservation I went through a long time of pushing people away, to look after myself, and I've had a fair amount of "bad luck" with people. I don't find things like friendship to be easy at all. But I do get tired of being a loner all the time...

 

I hope that by building certain skills on this forum, that some of that can later be applied in "real life" situations...

 

So who else is there? There's us - on this forum and maybe it can be a start - cuz I bet you have to push yourself sometimes on here to just start talking to people, and from what I see you do a good job at it, maybe you can build from there too?

 

 

I think part of the problem is me and perhaps I haven't made much of an effort. I suffer so badly with social anxiety which is precisely the reason why I avoid such situations. I spent the best part of 25 years as a loner and had nobody to teach me about life. Work has helped me enormously with regard to communicating with people and has given me more self-worth but if I was introduced to someone in the pub, I would be stuck for conversation.

 

This is why I'm so glad to have discovered this forum. This in itself has made me realise that I am not alone, and there are people far worse than me. Most of you regulars are really nice, kind and above all, really helpful people that I would be perfectly happy to sit in a pub (or whatever) knowing that we all have something in common.

 

I learn from you all

 

I suppose that as I am fortunate enough to have a wife, I don't need to push myself into awkward social sitations to find somebody. Goodness knows otherwise, I would probably have remained single for the rest of my life yearning for a nice woman and most of them looking at me like some sort of wierdo.

[A-S warrior]

Can't wait for the mature response

 

 

hmmmmm upon reflection, ladies and gentleman mr conway twitty..........

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Hul_5x6aE4c

[Mike_GX101]

they find you,

 

Yes that can happen but what do you do when they do find you? Do you always notice them or would you miss them even if they were right under your nose? See, the thing with 'real friends' is that they're probably looking for the same things you are - they want to be treated with respect and not be talked down to, as many people find that off-putting instantly.

 

There's an age-old proverb which can be used here:

Treat others as you wish to be treated.

 

This is another bullet-point you can add to your list A-S Warrior / Mr King of Kings!

Edited July 9, 2012 by Mike_GX101

[A-S warrior]

whats with the attitude? im just trying to help pepole and all i get is pepole flapping there gums at me lol.

[darkshine]

Oh thank you Darkshine, I am really touched by your kind comments. And yes, apart from my patients, I have indeed spoken to more people on this forum than down the pub - especially as I very rarely go down the pub!

 

I think part of the problem is me and perhaps I haven't made much of an effort. I suffer so badly with social anxiety which is precisely the reason why I avoid such situations. I spent the best part of 25 years as a loner and had nobody to teach me about life. Work has helped me enormously with regard to communicating with people and has given me more self-worth but if I was introduced to someone in the pub, I would be stuck for conversation.

 

This is why I'm so glad to have discovered this forum. This in itself has made me realise that I am not alone, and there are people far worse than me. Most of you regulars are really nice, kind and above all, really helpful people that I would be perfectly happy to sit in a pub (or whatever) knowing that we all have something in common.

 

I learn from you all

 

I suppose that as I am fortunate enough to have a wife, I don't need to push myself into awkward social sitations to find somebody. Goodness knows otherwise, I would probably have remained single for the rest of my life yearning for a nice woman and most of them looking at me like some sort of wierdo.

 

It all depends on what you want, if you are happy without having the whole close friend deal, then you are perfectly entitled to choose that - I guess it's a problem if you want close mates or something and then can't go out and find any...

 

The forum's good for chatting - about serious and fun stuff - so I think it's all good practice and it shows us that we can find people we like and debate things or discuss them or whatever - cuz I'm the same - if I went to the pub right now I wouldn't be able to strike up a conversation at all cuz the scope is way too broad - I wouldn't have a clue what to say or where to start...

 

But I guess if I had an interest in something and went to a group, I could possibly try talking about that, so there'd be a starting point at least

 

hmmmmm upon reflection, ladies and gentleman mr conway twitty..........

 

I get enough of that watching Family Guy

Edited July 9, 2012 by darkshine

[A-S warrior]

its my new forum weapon

[robert7111a]

It all depends on what you want, if you are happy without having the whole close friend deal, then you are perfectly entitled to choose that - I guess it's a problem if you want close mates or something and then can't go out and find any...

 

The forum's good for chatting - about serious and fun stuff - so I think it's all good practice and it shows us that we can find people we like and debate things or discuss them or whatever - cuz I'm the same - if I went to the pub right now I wouldn't be able to strike up a conversation at all cuz the scope is way too broad - I wouldn't have a clue what to say or where to start...

 

But I guess if I had an interest in something and went to a group, I could possibly try talking about that, so there'd be a starting point at least ;)I

 

 

I suppose I miss having a soulmate (man or woman) whom I could be close to, rant with, cry with, have fun with etc - someone who can take a different perspective/second opinion etc

[darkshine]

I'll happily talk about this with you Robert, but to be honest, it will be one kind of conversation on these boards, and it will be a totally different kind of conversation in PM - the choice is yours, it is up to you (just let me know either way lol)

[darkshine]

its my new forum weapon

 

I thought you didn't like Family Guy

[robert7111a]

I'll happily talk about this with you Robert, but to be honest, it will be one kind of conversation on these boards, and it will be a totally different kind of conversation in PM - the choice is yours, it is up to you (just let me know either way lol)

 

Great, I'll take it as it comes, at face value...I'm happy either way

[Mike_GX101]

whats with the attitude? im just trying to help pepole and all i get is pepole flapping there gums at me lol.

No attitude pal - just giving you an extra pointer that's all!

 

BTW it's "people" not "pepole"

[darkshine]

Great, I'll take it as it comes, at face value...I'm happy either way

 

I'll send you a message in a little while and we can talk when you get back

Edited July 10, 2012 by darkshine

[A-S warrior]

I thought you didn't like Family Guy

 

never said that, you thinking of someone else

[A-S warrior]

BTW it's "people" not "pepole"

 

feel free to take your english lesson somewere else, i really dont care.

 

 

oh and just so you know, im dyslexic like 70 odd percent of this forum. go and correct chris54 and special talents spelling and see what reaction you get back, trust me, im being polite!

Edited July 10, 2012 by A-S warrior

[darkshine]

never said that, you thinking of someone else

 

Obviously...

[A-S warrior]

Obviously...

 

 

oh right, WHOOOSH! lol.

[darkshine]

[LancsLad]

I have watched the post with interest and was not sure how or if to respond because basically I have had very few friends, or what I would define as friends in my life. I have had many people consider themselves to be my friend but in my mind have simply been people I have either worked with, played sport with or spent social time with. I have got on OK with these people for 99% of the time so where they friends or not? What I would say is that in my life Asperger's plays a big part in defining my thoughts and behaviours in others less so, this is one area for me where it does play a big part so it might be worth sharing my thoughts.

 

In some ways the AS issues for me are not about socialisation. When I can be bothered and that's not very often I can raise my game and play an active role in social contexts even leading the way if I feel that way inclined. This is hard work processing everything which is going on around me but I would never call this a performance, it does not feel fake simply hard work at times. Because of this I guess there is a what's in it for me type attitude in going to social occassions. Often I am bored by these things but I know that many people expect an effort on my part and for the sake of social harmony in work or college scenarios I would go and do some social 'maintenance' work knowing expectations will calm down for a few weeks afterwards.

 

In a similar way a lot of people require social maintenance and it is a case of can I be bothered or not, and most times I can't unless they have something I want which is not very often. The people who are low maintenance are the ones who get closest to me, these are the people who they would call themselves to be my friend. I can think of a few dozen individuals like this who tend to accept me for who I am and we just get on fine. I didn't go looking for them and they didn't go looking for me, rather our paths crossed. I can say all these people have something about them they have high levels of self esteem and as such are stable in their life positions, they don't need me and I guess I don't need them. What I would say is that I have been in many scenarios such as education, work, sport and other activities where you might naturally find such people, when they come along I take interest in them and don't push them away.

 

I think there is however another autistic level to this which we should be mindfull of. I am going to use an example from my life related to fish to try and highlight some thoughts.

 

A number of years ago I somehow became aware of Koi carp, it might have been a newspaper story about Pete Waterman spending £40,000 on a fish that lit the touch paper. I was aware of a distributor who sold this fish was local, the leading expert in the UK so out of curriosity I went to look at the fish in his retail outlet. I was imediately struck by how beautifull some of these fish where, there were definately aesthetic levels to them some where better than others. I also saw some high quality photographs of Japanese show winners and they were some of the most aesthetically beautiful things I had ever seen, which fascinated me given my designer credentials. I was told about the national show which was a few weeks off and I went half way down the country to have a look on the Saturday. I walked around the show and picked my winners in each category and made notes. The judging was the next day and unaware of the actual results I waited for a national magazine to come out the following month and I was spot on with every prediction. I was quite pleased because it was confirmation I was able to make good judgements using my instincts. What followed was a one and a half year project to build a suitable Koi pond in my back garden a major undertaking.

 

In this time I started to learn about how Koi are breed in Japan, because everything else was far inferior in respect to real quality. The breeding was just as selective as any top racehorses everything comes from a handfull of fish. The chosen parents fish are spawned onto artifical grass (180,000 eggs) and the eggs are hatched and fry are reared in external mud ponds to make them hardy and then the lake is drained. The fry are then first culled one by one on size and 80% (June) are removed and destroyed. The remainder are returned to a new mud pond. As they grow there is a need to reduce their stocking density and so every month one by one they are culled by 50% (July). This goes on throughout the growing season 40% (August) no cull in September but 30% (October). By winter the koi are around 10 cm's long, and they are brought indoors to heated artifical ponds about 7,500 fish. The top breeder will then have to clear these ponds to grow on the best fish so they will sell on around 6,800 of these fish at very low costs to be left with 700 'tategoi' his best fish. Make no mistakes about it there is absoloutly no chance that any one of these 6,800 fish flogged on will have any value the breeder is too good at selecting them for that to happen.

 

I quickly learnt that the only thing to buy was 'Tategoi' quality fish. Now these fish are no where near developed at this size it takes at least a couple of years for their genetic charecteristics to emerge as such there is a lot of educated guess work. Often a fish at this size looks good but as it grows the patternation becomes speread out and becomes thin and disconected. At other times whole elements of the final fish are not present so you have to trust the genetics of its parent stock and trust whole layers to come through at a later stage. Of course the easiest way to do this is to keep the fish for a few years in a retail setting, and the very best never come up for sale untill they are about 5 years old, but at this point the value of these fish can be massive or it might simply be a bigger fish but not quite there and never will be. Because of financial constraints I could only afford to buy fish at the one and a half year tategoi size, and had to pit my judgement against the experience of UK dealers, as such my self impose price range was between £150 and £450 for a 12cm to 15cm fish. To make things more difficult I only had a 6,000 gal pond and if they were to reach their size potential my limit would be between 20 and 30 fish to start with and would have to move fish on as I progressed possibly getting down to 10 or 12 mature specimines.

 

I am using this example from my life to highlight just how appealing Koi can be to someone who is autistic, thinks they have a good eye and has a belief system which is very objective and focused. I have some videos showing the breeding process in Japan and people who have watched them always can't believe the sight of the culled fish simply being tipped into the local watercourses to fend for themselves, as a fragile species they all die of course. Their motive is never about animal welfare but rather if you had a bucket and scooped up a few hundred wouldn't they be worth a lot of money if grown on, the answer is of course no they wouldn't all the value lies in the severity of the selection process.

 

In a similar way if I could be present at the first cull and select one fry out of the 180,000 what chance of me picking one of a dozen out which might be worth £10,000 in five years time the answer is of course 15,000 to one and these are with the odds weighted in my favour because I know the quality of the parent stock.

 

I quickly realised that with expectations there comes a price and that it was very doubtfull that I would ever win a national show my finances are against me in that respect. What I did decide to do was aim for a pond full of a dozen or so high quality fish which were at my level something I could afford and maintain. What I did do however was stack the odds as best I could in my favour and looked at the right type of fish and was prepared to invest in time and not expect the finished article rather I trusted my instincts to make good decisions.

 

In many ways my attitude to friends not surprisingly is very similar. It is easy to see a high resolution picture of a Japanese show champion koi and think I want something like that, well I know I can't perfection is out of my reach. This is difficult for an autistic black and white thinker to take at first. I had to understand if I wanted perfection then I would never be happy with the fish I owned. In a similar way if we go out looking for perfection in our friends what chance have we of ever finding one? The next point is I decided that part of the enjoyment would be seeing small fish grow and develop the anticipation month after month watching patterns emerge and form was very exciting. Again do we want out friends to be ready made articles? Part of friendship is the growing and development process. If we want friends to be fully formed then I guess we can go looking for them and let other people grow them on a bit to our standard first. Environments I have experienced such as golf clubs and rotary clubs come to mind in this respect but I have yet to find a friend of value there.

 

I have to be honest I was a bit of a Koi 'snob', but for good reasons. I was only ever interested in Japanes tategoi class fish. In a similar way in looking for friends I might be likewise a bit of a snob, I am not sure, but there are environments which are better suited to finding low maintenance friends than others.

 

My final point related to Koi is this. In the Koi world there are a general group of fish we call 'Go Sanke' these are the red, white and black variants. These are the most valuable of all koi because they are the most developed in some ways and Japanese taste leans in that direction. I have seen ponds stocked with nothing but Go Sanke fish and whilst each one is pretty special as a whole the pond looks rather clinical and boring. For this reason having variety of classes in a pond creates a far more appealing picture because of the contrasts. Some of my favorite Koi are deffinately 'Chagoi' which are single coloured a pale creamy brown hue, these are gentle fish and grow big and are often the first ones to come and feed from your hands they also have a very calming effect on the other fish in the pond. In a similar way I think we should have variety in our friends. This can be down to different genders, backgrounds, age ranges, beliefs whatever. When it comes to friends I always think there is also room for a Chagoi or two in our lives, they help keep things balanced and in perspective, often these I find are people considerably older than myslef.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[darkshine]

When you say koi carp you are saying carp twice

 

Yes I could have made a serious answer but I just felt like being irritating

[Mike_GX101]

Usually I don

feel free to take your english lesson somewere else, i really dont care.

 

 

oh and just so you know, im dyslexic like 70 odd percent of this forum. go and correct chris54 and special talents spelling and see what reaction you get back, trust me, im being polite!

 

Usually I don't bother correcting spelling errors but given that you're a pal and given that I noticed you were making the same spelling error a lot I thought I'd help you out. Take it or leave it.

[A-S warrior]

Usually I don

 

 

Usually I don't bother correcting spelling errors but given that you're a pal and given that I noticed you were making the same spelling error a lot I thought I'd help you out. Take it or leave it.

 

 

pepole have picked on me for my spelling before and i get very defensive, ive enjoyed many of your posts espeshilly the one in the aspergers and animals topic, so i have no beef with you. but a small spelling error just pissed me off lol that plus ive had alot of pepoles lip in this topic already, it was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

 

lets just not make these misunderstandings a habbit.

Edited July 11, 2012 by A-S warrior

[Mike_GX101]

I hear you A-S Warrior and I respect that!

 

Knowing it's due to dyslexia rather than some twist of wit aimed at putting others down I will show a little more understanding!

 

Thanks for clarifying.