Changing 'Disability to Diverse Ability'

[RaphielDrake]

behave yourself! ive been watching you lad and i dont like your tone.

 

Are you saying that response wasn't condescending or dismissive?

Edited August 27, 2012 by RaphielDrake

[RaphielDrake]

When anyone discusses politics and especially what to call a term there are bound to be fall outs.

 

ST said it 'sounded rude' instead of accusing you of being rude. I can 'sound sarcastic' without meaning to,

 

Lets take the term queer as an example. The folk it was against (homosexuals) have turned the term on it's head

and reclaimed it for themselves. Gender queer is now a term used for folks who are a non binary gender ie neither

male nor female;

 

"

Genderqueer (GQ; alternatively non-binary) is a catch-all term for gender identities other than man and woman, thus outside of the gender binary and cisnormativity.^[1] People who identify as genderqueer may think of themselves as one or more of the following:

• both man and woman (bigender, pangender);
  
• neither man nor woman (genderless, agender);
  
• moving between genders (genderfluid);^[2]
  
• third gender or other-gendered; includes those who do not place a name to their gender;^[3]
  
• having an overlap of, or blurred lines between, gender identity and sexual and romantic orientation.^[4][5]"
  

^{(taken from wikipedia)}

 

Some homosexuals are fine with being called gay in certain contexts. Others prefer to be referred to as a different identity.

 

Wendy Lawson mentioned 'diffability' a term widely used in Australia.

 

http://www.mydiffability.com.au/

 

Personally i prefer to be called disabled, avoid calling me someone with a condition if you can. Also i am fine with being cvalled

autistic, or dyslexic or bendy or any other term that i happen to be, a depressive is another term.

 

We are talking about a grey area what to we prefer to be referred as by the professionals in health, social services, police etc.

 

 

That analogy would work better if the definition of diverse ability was even remotely similar to that of disability but it demonstrably isn't.

Plus the word "queer" has insulting implications as it is used for describing something strange and odd too. Homosexual is a far more accurate and unbiased description of the sexuality so it follows that it would replace the former.

 

Other than that I don't disagree.

Edited August 27, 2012 by RaphielDrake

[Mike_GX101]

You're still pulling at strings a bit here though in that a disability to many people has physical attributes to it. Are you telling me you would happily take a physically disabled persons' car park space just because you too have a disability but albeit not a physical one?

 

I think there has to be some kind of straight-to-the-point distinction in the term used. Mental disability could be used but people would get offended by it's too institutionalised and stuffy connotation. Diverse Ability has a kind of MENSA quality to it - but then again the general census it seems is that everyone with autism is like Dustin Hoffman's Rainman with abilities to memorise whole telephone directories and calculate things faster than calculators - does that sound like you?!?

 

How about perceptually-challenged or brain disability ??

Edited August 27, 2012 by Mike_GX101

[indiscreet]

Rebranding disability would have very little effect except diverse ability in about ten years time would have the same negative commentations associated with disability and someone else would call for another pointless rebranding.

Prejudice would survive just the same.

 

That's more than likely. The Spastic Society dropped the word 'spastic' since it was being used as a term of abuse. They are now called "Scope" and 'scopie' has become a term of abuse.

 

I have no hearing in one ear as a result of an illness. It's a disability - or to use a now forbidden word, a handicap. Don't anyone tell me I have a diverse ability.

[A-S warrior]

Are you saying that response wasn't condescending or dismissive?

 

im saying i know special talent, and know shes not capable of being that way.

[RaphielDrake]

You're still pulling at strings a bit here though in that a disability to many people has physical attributes to it. Are you telling me you would happily take a physically disabled persons' car park space just because you too have a disability but albeit not a physical one?

 

I think there has to be some kind of straight-to-the-point distinction in the term used. Mental disability could be used but people would get offended by it's too institutionalised and stuffy connotation. Diverse Ability has a kind of MENSA quality to it - but then again the general census it seems is that everyone with autism is like Dustin Hoffman's Rainman with abilities to memorise whole telephone directories and calculate things faster than calculators - does that sound like you?!?

 

How about perceptually-challenged or brain disability ??

 

Wait, we can do that? Wow, finding parking spaces while doing math is going to be a hell of alot easier from now on. :-P

 

In all seriousness I thought the band of disability determines whether or not we are entitled to privileges such as that. I must confess to not having thoroughly of researched that.

It still doesn't change the fact that the definition of disability is accurate. Yes, there should be more sub-categories under disability. It is ridiculous the amount of generalization that is used when concerning it and I would whole-heartedly support the broadening of understanding in this regard.

 

However I must reiterate that changing the title to diverse ability or something else lacking the negative commentations of disability is just self-deception. We do that we might as well rebrand starvation as reduced nutrition expenditure, war as a particularly vigorous union of nations and death as oxygen conservation. You follow this train of thought to its nth term and eventually you are left with a language that resembles newspeak from the novel Nineteen-Eighty-Four.

At what point do you admit that life isn't fair, negative commentations exist because of the human language not inspite of it and that adversity is simply a part of the world we live in?

Obviously it is by no means the width and breadth of who we are but it *is* a part of who we are.

To deny that is to deny the extent of what we have achieved in overcoming our difficulties. Thats simply not healthy.

 

Doesn't the term "mental disability" work? Again more sub-categories with context are required but as an umbrella term it works nicely.

Edited August 28, 2012 by RaphielDrake

[trekster]

rd with all due respect you are new here. st is an excellent autism awareness campaigner. she. wants the best for those affected by asd.

 

she had an idea of using a term accepted by canada, australia and also dorset and posted here asking for support.

 

when you have time posting an introduction in the 'meet and greet' ie grey area section, will enable us to guess better who you are.

 

just a caring member

Edited August 28, 2012 by trekster

[A-S warrior]

respect is numero uno on this forum. we might not always agree with each other but we dont go out of our own way to bash each others topics. im a bit cheeky sometimes but im only being playful. i was quite brash when i first joined, and if i was to go back to when i first joined i would build myself up slowly and test the water. which is what you should do RD. special t is very gentle by nature and is easily upset, but she will stand by what she belives in. respect that? posting opinions is fine its what we are here for, but rember this isnt like other forums. not everyone is as high functioning as you, and other members might not understand the style of your posts.

[Special_talent123]

rd with all due respect you are new here. st is an excellent autism awareness campaigner. she. wants the best for those affected by asd.

 

she had an idea of using a term accepted by canada, australia and also dorset and posted here asking for support.

 

when you have time posting an introduction in the 'meet and greet' ie grey area section, will enable us to guess better who you are.

 

just a caring member

 

Thank you trekster

[Special_talent123]

respect is numero uno on this forum. we might not always agree with each other but we dont go out of our own way to bash each others topics. im a bit cheeky sometimes but im only being playful. i was quite brash when i first joined, and if i was to go back to when i first joined i would build myself up slowly and test the water. which is what you should do RD. special t is very gentle by nature and is easily upset, but she will stand by what she belives in. respect that? posting opinions is fine its what we are here for, but rember this isnt like other forums. not everyone is as high functioning as you, and other members might not understand the style of your posts.

 

Thank you AS warrior.

[Mike_GX101]

respect is numero uno on this forum. we might not always agree with each other but we dont go out of our own way to bash each others topics. im a bit cheeky sometimes but im only being playful. i was quite brash when i first joined, and if i was to go back to when i first joined i would build myself up slowly and test the water. which is what you should do RD. special t is very gentle by nature and is easily upset, but she will stand by what she belives in. respect that? posting opinions is fine its what we are here for, but rember this isnt like other forums. not everyone is as high functioning as you, and other members might not understand the style of your posts.

 

It's not a case of *bashing* other peoples' topics - it's a case of debating things. Don't be so possessive!!

 

Special Talent launched this topic asking what other people's opinions were and that is what has happened.

 

I actually found RaphielDrake's response quite comical! And it's true - almost every 're-branding' that comes in eventually becomes 'old' and gets negative connotations that people disagree with. They had the same problem decades ago when they came up with the word "autism" (disorder of neural development) and then the name "asperger" (after Austrian Paediatrician Hans Asperger's observations in 1944) both of which were terms that were totally new and awesome as new brand names catchy-enough to be remembered.

 

But sadly because there are so many syndromes now (creating perhaps an epidemic of syndromitis) Asperger's Syndrome is just one of a whole sea of extraneous terms (lost meanings stored in people's forgotten memories) and the core meaning has been lost on a lot of people.

 

Maybe the names need to be more descriptive in themselves (scrap the Latin names and using surnames, etc) and lets see descriptive names coming to light such as (and I quote from RaphielDrake's response: reduced nutrition expenditure for starvation, at least to help the layman understand what it is they might have.

[Special_talent123]

I am going to ask for a moderator can you close this topic. The more I seeing this the more your upsetting me.

[Special_talent123]

Also i would think before you speak, because a few members replying here have not spoken to me before and you don't know me well enough to understand how to talk to me. you talk to advance for my level , and I dont have HFA and Aspergers, so you need to be clear and concise

[Suze]

This thread is a classic example of how people can perceive things differently .It also shows how difficult it can be understand the tone of other peoples posts and their inference and meaning.I cannot see any need for moderation to the thread,I wonder Special_talent 123 if you would in view of my post now, like to leave the thread to continue.,It is an interesting discussion, and you did ask for opinions.I would just ask that members realise that Special t...feels a little sensitive and to moderate their own posts accordingly....I hope Special t you find this agreeable.Regards suze.

[LancsLad]

I want to let everyone know, and what your opinions is as well.

 

I just want to go back and say these were the opening words of the post. The opening sentance included the words 'everyone' and 'your opinions'. We have had recent debates about what this forum should be about. I am coming to the personal conclusion is that I do not know myself.

 

The simple point I want to make here is that when people start a post which is asking for open debate about an emotive topic which people will have a range of diverse views all formulated from a range of perspectives we have to expect a range of responses. If we do not like those responses we have no right to close people down.

 

In a similar way whilst some areas of the forum might operate and feel like a comfortable social club, I think it is unrealistic to expect all areas to be like that. There are bound to be areas in which there will be fair amount of rough and tumble. When this post went up there was not a response for a while and so I made the decision to step in and try and make a few balanced points from my perspective. I have kept out of it over the past few days and watched things develop.

 

I put forwards a thought regarding 'how disabling is autism' as a potential topic on a different post. It was even suggested that I open it up myself. Following this particular post I do not think it would be a good idea. I think this is something which does need to be debated and discussed and there would be a very wide range of opinions, but I am not convinced members could talk about this topic without someone somewhere believing it was personal.

 

As a last thought when moderators make the decision to take off posts or lock them out it demonstrates a level of policing. I think a knock on reaction is that people feel the forum police should be on their side. When this happens we are in danger of cliques being formed relating to who is in and who is not, I do not like the thought of that one bit. I believe the forum should be inclusive and by the very nature of what it represents that is going to make for some 'interesting' interactions at times.

[A-S warrior]

This thread is a classic example of how people can perceive things differently .It also shows how difficult it can be understand the tone of other peoples posts and their inference and meaning.I cannot see any need for moderation to the thread,I wonder Special_talent 123 if you would in view of my post now, like to leave the thread to continue.,It is an interesting discussion, and you did ask for opinions.I would just ask that members realise that Special t...feels a little sensitive and to moderate their own posts accordingly....I hope Special t you find this agreeable.Regards suze.

 

^what suze said^

 

you have a good topic here special t, follow it through and keep comming back with what i know you can do (making good posts) dont ever get disheartend stay strong and keep it up.

[A-S warrior]

It's not a case of *bashing* other peoples' topics - it's a case of debating things. Don't be so possessive!!

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2012 by A-S warrior

[LancsLad]

Suze without trying to sound argumentative because I am not. How are individuals going to 'moderate their own posts accordingly?' I think the nature of the forum is that memebers will think and communicate in their own way. The nature of autism is that people might not be very aware as to how others might percieve their thoughts or interporate thier style of communication. I think it simply comes with the territory which is an ASD forum.

 

If anything you have my sympathys because I would never want to be a moderator and have any abilities to intervene in any way whatsoever. I think it is impossible to take sides. When two kids start play fighting and one doesn't like things because they are getting rough is it always the fault of the biggest one.

[A-S warrior]

.

I would never want to be a moderator

 

theres a saying:

 

'the best moderators are always the ones that least want the job'

[Suze]

Suze without trying to sound argumentative because I am not. How are individuals going to 'moderate their own posts accordingly?' I think the nature of the forum is that memebers will think and communicate in their own way. The nature of autism is that people might not be very aware as to how others might percieve their thoughts or interporate thier style of communication. I think it simply comes with the territory which is an ASD forum.

 

If anything you have my sympathys because I would never want to be a moderator and have any abilities to intervene in any way whatsoever. I think it is impossible to take sides. When two kids start play fighting and one doesn't like things because they are getting rough is it always the fault of the biggest one.

Absolutely...agree with this completely.My inference with the self moderation (unfortunate word lol )of your own posts was simply in response to other members describing the OP (Special T ) as being of a sensitive nature , I was simply asking that we take this on board when posting as specialT had become upset with regards to some of the comments.I don,t like to think of myself as the forum police , more like a referee , I try to keep everyone happy and the atmosphere comfortable for everyone . .

[A-S warrior]

more like a referee

 

you should get an infraction system, if you get 3 points your barred for 1 week, if you get 5 your barred for 2 weeks, if you get 10 points, you hit the showers! i dunno why im saying this beacuse i should have 9 points already

[Special_talent123]

this funny warrior

[darkshine]

you should get an infraction system, if you get 3 points your barred for 1 week, if you get 5 your barred for 2 weeks, if you get 10 points, you hit the showers! i dunno why im saying this beacuse i should have 9 points already

 

Only 9? I would have thought you had way more than that by now

[Special_talent123]

LOL darkshine,, you do both make me laugh hehehehehehe

[darkshine]

I should imagine I've collected a few points myself over the last year or so

[Sally44]

I understand what ST is trying to achieve by adopting "Diverse Abilities". Afterall for some there are genuine abilities that compensate for the disabilities. But I have a gut feeling that this description best fits within the disabled community as a description they might use amongst themselves.

 

If someone asks me about my son and I say he has an ASD, they often ask what does that mean. And I can then describe in brief detail about being on the spectrum. But if I said my son had "diverse abilities" that makes if even harder to explain. Usually in a situation you are having to describe how or why your child cannot do something or is not coping. If they are coping or even doing well, then the question would not come up. And if he were having a meltdown or panicking about germs and I gave the explanation as "diverse abilities", I don't think anyone would have a clue what I was talking about.

 

And over the last 7 years I have time and time again had some professional say to me "but we are all a bit autistic" or "but we all get anxious at times" or "there are many children that take longer to learn to read and write". And each time I have felt undermined and dismissed. Now, some 5-7 years later we have all the medical diagnosis, and that in itself is annoying. The fact that no-one takes a difficulty seriously UNTIL it has a medical name attached to it.

 

For the general public it gives the idea that in some way their disabilities can be overcome, or gotten around, by these 'abilities' they have. And in my experience that just is not the case. I have health issues that class me as disabled. I have abilities. But I cannot fulfill those abilities because the disabilities stop me doing them.

 

For my son, like most with an ASD, it is 'invisible' at first glance. But as soon as you strike up a conversation you would tell he is different and has 'difficulties'. People would naturally assume he is low IQ, which he isn't. But his ability to understand and communicate effectively is severe. He is very vulnerable and has extreme anxiety issues and OCD.

 

I have been following the TV series "Growing Children", which talked about 3 developmental disorders that affect a high proportion of children. The first was ASD, the second was OCD and the third was Dyslexia. Each causes difficulties and disabilities that are clinically significant and lifelong. My son has all three.

 

At the moment I don't feel he has diverse abilities. I know he has great potential in some areas, but he is really struggling on a daily basis and if someone started to talk to me about "diverse abilities" I would feel that they simply had no understanding or his or the wider families situation.

 

Due to his anxiety I am going to apply for a disabled parking badge. When I get the time to do it. Due to anxiety he refuses to walk on pavements, or go on public transport. He needs a door to door service eventhough he is able to walk, he simply cannot.

 

I do prefer the word disabled or specific learning difficulties or OCD because it immediately gives information about the abilities of the person being referred to.

[Mike_GX101]

In my view the notion of a spectrum aught to be scrapped completely as its too broad and misleading.

 

In it's place we would place concentric rings (like those of a tree) with definitive cut-off points say on scales 0-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-80 and 81-100 (with the innermost ring being the latter and the most needy in terms of support and they'd be the people the services would be aimed at most intensively).

 

Those of us on the outer edges of that would then opt-in to support if needed (say probably the two outermost) and the 3rd one in would be be given a high recommendation to be included. That way money gets spent where it's needed the most and there are no grey-areas.

 

At the moment the spectrum is too misleading and there are some very independent aspies out there who live independently and compete independently and who probably feel the system is a little too patronizing for them.

 

With this idea everyone is happy and you can have the people on the outer-most rings being called diverse-ability if they want while the people further in with disability or whatever other term they wish to be labelled as if any.

[Sally44]

The difficulty with that is that those on the spectrum typically have a spiky profile.

 

For example in his areas of interest his speech can be assessed as being 'advanced'. But if he has to formulate a sentence outside of those areas his speech is a standard score of 1, where 3 is classed as severe. So what are his 'speech and communication abilities or difficulties'. How would you rank that variation of ability within just one skill set. Could he, or couldn't he hold down a job that included a certain level of communication? I think he wouldn't be able to do it. He can't hold a conversation on any other topic than his interests. And he struggles to hold a two way conversation. It is more like he talks at you. Yet the SALT was on the verge of discharging him last year! Now he is in a special school for those with an ASD and communication difficulties who are around average cognitive ability. So I would seriously question anyone carrying out 'assessments' and what their real motives were because time and time assessments have been delivered in such a way so that the LA or NHS professional could try to discharge him when he obviously should not be discharged - and that was agreed at the educational tribunal we attended where the same SALT agreed she spent 'significantly more time' on my son than was detailed in his Statement. Yet her recommendation had been to 'reduce' input, when SEND agreed she should have 'increased' it and detailed that increase in the Statement to show a true reflection of his need.

 

I simply do not have any faith in any organisation assessing someone when they are the same service provider of the support or benefit.

 

And you could have an adult that was very capable in many areas and yet had an Anxiety Disorder so that they could not even leave the house. And anxiety is a major player in those on the spectrum. So you could be assessed in a one to one situation and the decision is you are able to do x, y and z as jobs - yet in reality you could not. What they should do is set assessments in an environment the person has never been to before - and in the actual working environment with lots of people and noise and then see how many turn up and cope.

[Mike_GX101]

Yes I agree - the assessment aught to take place through observation in real-world interaction preferably when the person doesn't realise they're being watched necessarily (could be done via closed-circuit for example in some workplaces with appropriate consents, etc) and should encompass more than one day to cancel out good and bad day scenarios.

 

The observations would then be scored and an additional assessment of past "episodes" would be included and that would involve discussion with close family/relative members (or carers if applicable) and the total score would then reveal which concentric ring they would fit on. And yes you are quite right that some might fluctuate over the course of their life through different rings and that would be okay too; no one's saying it would be fixed. Although some follow-up assessment would be necessary to regulate it of course.

[LancsLad]

There are some good points being made here. I think one of the problems with any model is how do you construct it so it is transfarable through all stages of life and is felxible enough to recognise that we develop as individuals as we grow up but may start to encounter more and more challenging environments.

 

When it comes to childhood it is farly easy to construct something which is an assesment tool to place judgements in respect to school based learning environments. I think an big issue is that this current tool leads to value judgements being made which are simply not applicable to much of what is present in a typical adult world.

 

I think there is a danger that individuals cling onto these values to the extent they feel totally disempowered as adults. Whilst some of them might be transfarable such as sensory issues for example, others become less so. The issue is that the system might leave individuals feeling value through a badge at one stage of their life and they then see those values evaporate at the next stage.

 

As such where do elements such as social skills come into play. They might be important as a teenager in a school environment when there is a desire to make friends. But as an adult in a steady relationship who goes to work in an environment which is task or knowledge based how applicable are they? The answer might be they are not that important at all.

 

And this is where simply mapping out abilites and weaknesses is more important. In theory I see this as dots on an acetate sheet which I can overlay into a variety of life situations. The pattern is very personal and in some scenarios I might be a very good fit, in fact a better fit than 99% of the population. In other scenarios the fit might not be appropriate at all. If we could think in this way I believe we would be more concerned with profiling and finding 'fit' which is all about fair acces to opportunities, and less concerned about levels and entitlement for needs. I can make some very strong cases for having needs but for a lot of the time I do not place myself into scenarios which require any support whatsoever.

 

This is about a level of self awareness and responsibility. If we are capable of self awarenees then I believe we should take responsibility for much in our lives. There will be many individuals on the spectrum as it stands now who are not as adults capable of these levels of self awareness and as such are incaple of taking responsibility. It is at these points we should consider terms such as disabling when the scenarios they encounter are part of normal life expectations in respect to the rest of society. We need to draw a line somewhere otherwise we simply create a culture for the 'needy' and place more and more expectations on the badge providers to support the demand.

[trekster]

example i have is i was told yesterday because i have a learning disability, i am not allowed to read because it affects my reading grr. thats discrimination!

 

Hey? that doesn't make sense, you have been told 'not to read'? I'm dyslexic and find reading difficult (writing, typing and spelling as well) but i still attempt reading when i can. i have some idea which ignorant (about LD) person told you that.

[trekster]

Suze without trying to sound argumentative because I am not. How are individuals going to 'moderate their own posts accordingly?' I think the nature of the forum is that memebers will think and communicate in their own way. The nature of autism is that people might not be very aware as to how others might percieve their thoughts or interporate thier style of communication. I think it simply comes with the territory which is an ASD forum.

 

If anything you have my sympathys because I would never want to be a moderator and have any abilities to intervene in any way whatsoever. I think it is impossible to take sides. When two kids start play fighting and one doesn't like things because they are getting rough is it always the fault of the biggest one.

 

Moderators attempt to judge the situation by remaining neutral when they speak to both sides. i moderate on 2 yahoo groups, 1 about the politics of autism (which is hardly used) ie autistic rights which can get quite heated and another co moderating on a gluten and dairy etc free recipe forum. i offered to run a chat list for an autism rights group then decided to leave because i didn't agree with how they worked, so changed the forum accordingly.

 

i got the role of co moderator on gf/cf recipes forum by asking if someone could update the links and offering to do so. i have even intervened when 1 parent was being sexist saying 'mothers do all the work' when a single father had just joined up. This had to be done publicly because it was upsetting a number of people. i later got a private email thanking me for my efforts. That is why i help other autistics and those interested in supporting autistics, because i care about them. All i expect is for them to thank me and offer support, encouragement or advice later when i need them. Those that make presumptions about my abilities or disabilities i would rather they take a wide berth.

 

Ideally moderating is done off list 1st before closing the topic down (if necessary). I'm struggling to communicate on a different forum, and im receiving mentoring from a moderator on there. i am really appreciating her support and encouragement, it took a while to get used to the new situation of discussing posts before approval but were getting there.

 

i have what i have called 'delayed processing' ie it takes sometime normally hours for me to work out a situation or why it went wrong.