This woman should not be allowed near people with ASD...

[matzoball]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2012/10/22/jenny-mccarthy-is-a-newspaper-columnist/

[Special_talent123]

not antivax. they have no clue

[dekra]

I do not and have never believed the ASD/Immunisation link claims. Now that the study has been proven flawed and should never have been published the damage from the claims are there to be seen in the number of measles outbreaks amongst other negative health effects on thousands of children that were not immunised. Some of these children actually died from or had serious side effects from preventable illnesses such as measles mumps and rubella plus other diseases that are prevented by other vaccines that were not taken up.

 

Knowing all that and knowing there is no scientific link did not stop me being worried slightly when my son had his vaccinations and I was almost sick with worry taking his younger sister for hers and you know why? Because irresponsible scaremongers like this that's why.

 

I will happily listen to any properly researched and validated evidence to show a link but until that ever happens then I firmly believe the childhood vaccination programme is an important public heath facility that all parents should seriously consider.

[Lyndalou]

I would agree that Jenny McCarthy is not the type of person I would look to for advise and seems like a very bad choice of person to be given a 'voice' such as this. She is very crass and I think a bit ignorant.

 

However, I would disagree that the link between autism and vaccination is completely disproven. I have chosen not to immunise my daughter with the 3-in-1 MMR because there is (some) evidence to suggest that (some) children's immune systems can be vulnerable to the viruses introduced to their bodies through vaccination. It may not simply be the viruses themselves which can cause damage but the amount of viruses introduced to a still-developing immune system at a critical stage in development. There has never been definitive testing to prove/disprove that some children are not affected by the sheer quantity of vaccination they now receive prior to the age of 12 to 13 months compared to the relatively small amount of vaccination children received in the past. Although not shouting it from the rooftops (for fear of being ostracised by the medical community) there are physicians and other medical professionals who are not wholeheartedly behind mass immunisation.

 

Possible risk factors for complications/side effects to the child through immunisation which include encephilitis, raised temperatures and vomiting (with no-one knowing exactly what long-term effects are caused by children experiencing side effects because again there has never been a definitive long-term study of how children are affected to my knowledge) are having thyroid problems in the family, immune problems such as excema, asthma etc etc. There is excema, asthma and other immune issues in my family as well as a number of members with thyroid problems. My daughter has excema kept under control by a daily regime of steroids and creams and also has a peanut allergy. However, in general she is very healthy having had few colds and consumes a varied nutritious diet. This means that although she may succumb to childhood illnesses she also has a very good chance of fighting infection off and developing a natural immunity to those illnesses which is proven to be a much more effective and long-term way to develop immunity. Many immunisations only provide a short-term immunity which means that boosters are required. Also, people in general may not be aware that the elderly are now more at risk of contracting 'childhood illnesses' which in adults can be much more serious. The death rates in the elderly are going up, offsetting the trend in children - is this a good trade-off considering many of those children will lose their immunity in adulthood?

 

That's my take on the matter

 

Lynda

[sesley]

vaccinations get blamed because the autismcharacteristics show at the same time around 12 months,when social awareness and development become more prononced.The negative impact are the rise of terrible illness's like whooping cough and the damage as a result should the child survive.

[Special_talent123]

its not proven that vaccines are the cause of autism.

[Lyndalou]

its not proven that vaccines are the cause of autism.

 

That's my point Special but it's not 'disproven' either and I think that by saying that it is when there are a lot of people who believe similarly to Andrew Wakefield who DID NOT say that vaccines caused autism, merely that there seemed to be a link between vaccines and certain children with developmental disorders who had gut problems (related to having measles virus (vaccine strain)) in the brain stem and gut.

 

I do not believe my son has ASD because he was vaccinated. I think he has ASD because ASD is in my family already. However, I didn't want to take the chance (after a great deal of soul searching) that my daughter who has the same parents, grandparents etc of my son would also develop ASD. Two of my mum chums maintain that their children were developing 'normally'; speaking words and interacting until they received the MMR. I have no reason to disbelieve them.

 

I think also that it also has to be taken into account that autism is believed to be a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. 'Environmental factors' could cover just about everything we put into and onto our bodies. Just because I believe that the autism in my family is primarily genetic does not make me disbelieve that the autism in other families may be primarily environmental.

[Special_talent123]

well there is no evidence. I also know people who havent had any vaccines and has autism

[Special_talent123]

also my mum noticed my signs 18 weeks or 18 months. I am the only one in the family with autism

[Lyndalou]

Special

 

I'm not trying to upset you and I'm sorry if I have done. I'm not saying vaccines cause everyone who has autism to have autism because that is obviously not right. I'm saying that it is possible that a small amount of people with autism could have been affected by things which have been put into their bodies.

 

Lynda

[dekra]

Lynda had a point I agree with an a point I disagree with.

 

Whilst the link with ASD is not proven I agree that it is also not proven but neither is the fact that the sky is blue or the grass green proven not to cause it (sorry that sounds very flippant and it isn't meant to be I just can't think of a more approprate analogy at this time of night) so I disagree there.

 

I also take into consideration that there is some evidence which whilst still needing further research shows there are possible repercussions from immunisations. Lynda has taken the IMFORMED choice in this respect over her decision not to immunise and that's the best anyone can ask. I have been given the same informed choice and MY choice was for me the benefits outweigh the potential risks. What bothers me is people not making informed choice but being scared into not providing life saving treatment due to irresponsible scaremongering by uninformed people.

[Lyndalou]

I agree Dekra, that the main consideration here is someone fronting a 'movement' who's purpose seems to be to persuade parents to NOT make informed choices about their own children's health but to believe that ALL children have the same needs and considerations which is clearly not true. Children's health varies for many reasons and some children who are susceptible to certain illnesses will not be susceptible to others. Even living in one country as opposed to another can change the whole picture.

 

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, unfortunately although there are many very intelligent, informed and passionate people who live in the US, Americans in general seem to prefer to believe unintelligent, uniformed, charismatic idiots using the Presidential elections as a prime example. These people blatantly lie and mislead so if this is what the leaders of this country do then it isn't surprising the general public are happy to listen to Jenny McCarthy and her misguided and dangerous opinions.

 

[Sa Skimrande]

How about this, autism has always existed and is not the result of anything other than being born, as let's just look at history here, all the landmarks in technological development, inventions out of the blue, what kind of people came up with such ideas, people like Einstein, Tesla, Darwin, Newton, Copernicus , Da Vinci and Archimedes and many more.

 

What if what we are seeing as ASD is a result of our more social living as who said everyone has to be the same, where is it written that people must always be social and into each other ?

 

We have extroverts and we have introverts in the NT society, that is not an illness so why is ASD ?

 

I believe this thing we have is ancient and it was designed by nature to be of use to humanity and it can be again whence people stop believing anyone that is different must have some kind of illness or be deficient in some way.

 

I believe we are all different, we are all born with different strengths and weaknesses and so in a harmonious society all those strengths and weaknesses would cancel out as each did what they were good at and what the weren't, there wouldn't be a weren't.

[sesley]

at last someone with a positve attitude of acceptence of autism being a human difference that is inherited through generations.Its not somthing that needs pills or any other means for a cure.you can treat gut problems and some might need medical treatments for ailments,but you can't cure a person of a person.all these medicine men who peddle pills and potions are getting very rich off people who want a eurotypical child that is just as demanding as a autistic person with less extras.It is time for autism to accepted as a normal human difference just like of being a different race.

[Mike_GX101]

No one really knows the origins of autism any more than anyone really knows the origins of the universe.

 

As per many such debatable topics it is good to have diverse views on the matter at hand to ensure that any outcome conclusion is a solidly balanced one. Otherwise we end up with notions like the idea that something can come from absolutely nothing which we all know contradicts the very principles of cause and effect.

[Lyndalou]

How about this, autism has always existed and is not the result of anything other than being born, as let's just look at history here, all the landmarks in technological development, inventions out of the blue, what kind of people came up with such ideas, people like Einstein, Tesla, Darwin, Newton, Copernicus , Da Vinci and Archimedes and many more.

 

What if what we are seeing as ASD is a result of our more social living as who said everyone has to be the same, where is it written that people must always be social and into each other ?

 

We have extroverts and we have introverts in the NT society, that is not an illness so why is ASD ?

 

I believe this thing we have is ancient and it was designed by nature to be of use to humanity and it can be again whence people stop believing anyone that is different must have some kind of illness or be deficient in some way.

 

I believe we are all different, we are all born with different strengths and weaknesses and so in a harmonious society all those strengths and weaknesses would cancel out as each did what they were good at and what the weren't, there wouldn't be a weren't.

 

I have thought the same thing. I am starting to believe that ASD and almost-but-not-quite ASD goes back generations in both my parent's families and on my husband's side too. There are a number of stories of relatives who apologised even for breathing and those who upset everyone they talked to but couldn't understand why they did.

 

I think the social expectations today are much higher than they used to be. My relatives lived in small villages and communities and people who lived for generations with each other probably had a greater level of tolerance for 'differences'. The pace of life was slower then, harder yes but there weren't all the things that constantly had to be learned and relearned...my frustration rises simply by virtue of the fact that I have to switch on the TV for the kids with 3 remotes in a particular order! I don't think I'd feel nearly as disorganised if there weren't so many people and expectations to deal with daily.

 

But...there may be a case for there being more 'severe' cases of autism with all the environmental and genetic modifications our modern world has brought. If you consider that only 10 % of children born very prematurely WON'T have a degree of disablement and the amount of children this equates to because of the advances in medical technology. ????

[Mike_GX101]

Which came first; the chicken or the egg?

 

Did Hans Asperger 'invent' asperger's syndome in 1944 or did he simply identify a psychological phenomena which has lived with us for as long as humans have lived and maybe even before then in Prehistoric Man?

[Sa Skimrande]

Which came first; the chicken or the egg?

 

Did Hans Asperger 'invent' asperger's syndome in 1944 or did he simply identify a psychological phenomena which has lived with us for as long as humans have lived and maybe even before then in Prehistoric Man?

 

He is reported to have recognised certain different characteristics in adults therefore by the fact of recognising existing characteristics in adults that is to say they existed before he discovered them, what we now group and label as ASD is natural, nature created it. It's all there Asperger's original report from 1944 has been translated and his report can be read and there the truth is in the reading so all these people that say the MMR jab causes autism can basically go forth and multiply, because the MMR jab was not available in 1944.

 

But I mentioned notable inventors of the past, some of whom their lives were known about and one thing is common through some of them that have also been recognised as somewhat eccentric, is that they preferred their own company to pursue their own ideas, that is they were not particularly social, but did socialise when it was necessary, but lives then with less population, with the wealthy they lived a less social life than what we are forced to do now with our out of control rise in populations.

 

But although I may have a positive understanding on what ASD actually is, it is of no use in a society that seeks to label, segregate, diminish and in some case dumb down those it has identified and it would be interesting to understand if we as a species continue to make life changing discoveries in the future where we have effectively removed minds that might have gone on to do great things !

 

As to understand if ASD are excluded from working society it is going to be very difficult for ASD to thrive unless they have independent wealth !

 

But of various lists that include ASD's that have become famous, what interests me are those who are speculated to have had it through their reported behaviour as most would agree there are some core characteristics common to all ASD people and it is those core subjects the speculators have used although in some cases they are also core to other conditions which may or may not be linked to ASD, but new discoveries are being made every day and past knowledge is being proved wrong.

 

But as regards the charlatan that inspired this thread there will always be them and there will be more, the longer we allow society to push ASD down because there is one thing common to most humans and that is the desire to dominate others, it is a fact of life and ancient, someone just has to be more anything than someone else for the lust for power is so great a motivator.

 

But here's a thought bearing in mind most ASD's are excluded from work or at least put in safe low impact roles what we need is some enterprising individual to gather a group of ASD's and create a business using ASD minds and when success is reached spew to the world that the business is ASD, for it won't be long before the NT world would seek the advantage, for I believe if ASD is going to rise from the ashes, it is ASD that is going to have to do it and that by telling their NT keepers to go forth and multiply with their narrow minds and belittling attitudes.

[Canopus]

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, unfortunately although there are many very intelligent, informed and passionate people who live in the US, Americans in general seem to prefer to believe unintelligent, uniformed, charismatic idiots using the Presidential elections as a prime example. These people blatantly lie and mislead so if this is what the leaders of this country do then it isn't surprising the general public are happy to listen to Jenny McCarthy and her misguided and dangerous opinions.

 

I could say similar things about the British people and how they are influenced by the mainstream media. I suspect that a significant proportion of users of this forum get the bulk of their information from the mainstream media, believe 99% of it, and assume that if something is ignored by the mainstream media then it is probably irrelevant.

[Sa Skimrande]

That is why more and more people are turning to such news outlets such as RT (Russia Today) and Al Jazeera English even CNN as UK media, well it's tainted by political spin and the ongoing Leveson Inquiry is revealing just how close government and the media actually are. As to the rapid press personally I can do without that, they proved their worth to me decades ago and besides they are a waste of trees. But generally I get a lot of my world news via international forums I use, where participants compare what their national media sources are saying, so a general gist can be obtained.

[Canopus]

That is why more and more people are turning to such news outlets such as RT (Russia Today) and Al Jazeera English even CNN as UK media, well it's tainted by political spin and the ongoing Leveson Inquiry is revealing just how close government and the media actually are. As to the rapid press personally I can do without that, they proved their worth to me decades ago and besides they are a waste of trees. But generally I get a lot of my world news via international forums I use, where participants compare what their national media sources are saying, so a general gist can be obtained.

 

Only a tiny fraction of parents of kids with AS have turned towards foreign or alternative news sources. The majority still have faith and trust in the British mainstream media.

 

One of my favourite news sources is Press TV. It must be highly effective at exposing corruption in Europe because earlier this year Ofcom removed it from Sky and more recently the EU have removed it from Eutelsat.

 

http://www.presstv.ir/section/SaveFreedomOfSpeech.html

[Sa Skimrande]

Only a tiny fraction of parents of kids with AS have turned towards foreign or alternative news sources. The majority still have faith and trust in the British mainstream media.

 

One of my favourite news sources is Press TV. It must be highly effective at exposing corruption in Europe because earlier this year Ofcom removed it from Sky and more recently the EU have removed it from Eutelsat.

 

http://www.presstv.i...omOfSpeech.html

 

I am not a parent, I am one of this lot, what this website is about, but if you know us, you will know we have a thing about accuracy and truth where some of us even get stuck on bad English; spelling mistakes, bad punctuation and such perhaps suggesting the origin of the news report as some online news sources get their news from other providers, but Americanisms are creeping into our language so why bother with them, go as near to horse's mouth as possible, at least so one may not get hung up on lazy English.

 

But Press TV, I will take a look at that, thank you.

 

But the news as is presented to the British public I find very worrying because it is all one sided and seems to be generating a lot of unjust hatred towards minorities in this country, minorities who come from a people that our country along with America and a few other Nato countries is engaged in a war with as in the so called War on Terror, which is in effect a continuous war with licence to strike anyone and anywhere at anytime, whoever stands in the way of what the Western business world wants. But I watch the more common British media and wonder how it is the free press seems to report on whatever the government has in it's sights before the government has briefed the public, giving rise to the thought on exactly who is creating the policies government or the media but given the Leverson inquiry we now know how close the media and government actually are and I am surprised many have not fled from such media in disgust.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Sa Skimrande

[robert7111a]

Only a tiny fraction of parents of kids with AS have turned towards foreign or alternative news sources. The majority still have faith and trust in the British mainstream media.

 

I am a parent and do not believe in the British media - as Sa Skimrade says, it is all one-sided. The media are told what to say, there is no media freedom any more in the UK.

 

And yes, my wife and I have turned to RT...

[Sa Skimrande]

Robert7111a

 

I have been meaning to say this for a few days, but noticing your recent avatar, I wonder why it is those three particular standing stones at Avebury stone circle are so appealing to photographers as most pro photos of the circle include those three and from much the same angle as in your image and I photographed those three many times, including infra red film photography where I got the IR white ''readybrek'' glow around the stones, and that from being inspired by the Dragon Project on the Rollrights a few decades ago.

[justine1]

Only a tiny fraction of parents of kids with AS have turned towards foreign or alternative news sources. The majority still have faith and trust in the British mainstream media.

 

One of my favourite news sources is Press TV. It must be highly effective at exposing corruption in Europe because earlier this year Ofcom removed it from Sky and more recently the EU have removed it from Eutelsat.

 

http://www.presstv.i...omOfSpeech.html

 

I read/watch various media resources for information,but that could be something to do with my own thirst for knowledge. I am currently at uni and we have to back up everything we say and do with facts/literature,of course what might be fact to one person is fiction to the next,thats when you have to look at validility and credibility.

 

My father does not like english news because he does not feel it shows enough of the REAL issues,focusing alot on celeb news and repetitive,so he watches Russia Today.

[Sa Skimrande]

British media focuses on celebrity because celebrity and sport is diversion from what is really happening, as one will notice with the current celebrity scandal that is awing the land focus has shifted from more pressing issues, but some of the stuff I read on online news outlet comments section does not make me proud to be British and often site use rules are blatantly ignored and the comments never policed.

 

But university training is good in that it also teaches cross referencing.

[Canopus]

I refuse to buy a TV licence because I do not want to finance the Blatant Biased Corporation. It's a downright cheek that you legally need a TV licence to watch foreign satellite channels. The technology exists now that analogue broadcasts have been switched off to replace the TV licence with a smart card enabling reception of BBC channels, so why isn't it used?

[Sa Skimrande]

I also find it wrong that I am excluded from watching tv unless I pay for a corporation I do not agree who'se services I will not partake of so every other broadcasting company cannot reach out to me because I won't pay for one of their competitors to exist.

 

But what really damaged my attitude towards the BBC was the method they employ to extract the 'licence' fee, which is all about threats and lies, hassle and aggravation for I have learned all one has to say to the 'operative' that turns up at the door is;

 

'' Am I obliged to answer your questions ''

 

Where I know I am not and the operative knows that too and when these people turn up I always have a digital voice recorder in my hand and they don't like that and try to tell me it is illegal for me to record them to which I know it's not as I even recorded the ATOS farce, it can be considered rude if you don't tell the other you are recording, but it is not illegal and certainly not in my own home as inside the door over the threshold is not in public.

 

But I have rang them up and told them '' I do not need a TV licence '' and although they wanted it, they did not get my name as they don't need it and I was not prepared to enter into a contract with them. But I still get hassled by letter and there are knocks on the door I ignore.

 

But given the hassle I have had with them, I have clued up on my legal rights and know exactly how to deal with them as they have no right of access into my home so they can just take me on my word without me having to prove anything and I have said to one of them go and park you detector van outside my home if you think I am a liar and I will see you in court.

 

But it is a fact that no one has ever been prosecuted on the evidence of a tv detector van, because the BBC will not reveal details of their method of detection and to pursue someone in court with one of these things they would have to reveal their 'secret ' technology and there has already been numerous freedom of information attempts to force the BBC to reveal their methods and every request has been rebuffed. So many are thinking it is a lie and they have been lying for decades.

[Special_talent123]

I do hope your not using your TV or iplayer to watch Live programmes or u will be prosecuted

[Canopus]

But it is a fact that no one has ever been prosecuted on the evidence of a tv detector van, because the BBC will not reveal details of their method of detection and to pursue someone in court with one of these things they would have to reveal their 'secret ' technology and there has already been numerous freedom of information attempts to force the BBC to reveal their methods and every request has been rebuffed. So many are thinking it is a lie and they have been lying for decades.

 

The detector vans were for real and contained working detection equipment. I have technical articles about them that were published in a BT magazine which was available to the public. They are no longer usable because they only worked with analogue TVs. I have a feeling that detection equipment is no longer in use because digital TVs are much harder to detect and do not emit the same tell-tale signals that analogue TVs do.

 

I do hope your not using your TV or iplayer to watch Live programmes or u will be prosecuted

 

That's easier said than done. The enquiries officer has to PROVE that you are watching a live programme rather than a recording. If you are watching an obscure or foreign channel and the enquiries officer doesn't have a schedule to hand then it's very difficult to prove. Remember that you are innocent until proven guilty!

[Special_talent123]

now ur making it sound like u are... thats illegal

[sesley]

back on snake oil treatments for autism,it all looks very scarey inhuman treatment for peole born different.instead of finding how to support eachchild withAsd with skillsand learning how to use strategys for difficultiesand exploring the potntialin each,they look for harmfutreatment that Joseph Mengle could have thoughtp aided by apprentices. Why do people think they can cure autism,with medical interventions.why not just accept autism as a human difference something you are born with inherited from relatives.

Edited November 5, 2012 by sesley

[Sa Skimrande]

now ur making it sound like u are... thats illegal

 

Do you know what is legal and what is not ? That is the letter of the law as it is written ?

 

People that are not prepared to be abused clue themselves up on the actual law, I am one of those people therefore I know my rights and contrary to what you might be thinking that people can say whatever and go on and break the law, you must understand something about a lot of aspies in that we struggle to cheat and lie and when we do often is we are caught because we aren't good at it, I am one of those people, squeaky clean what I say is the truth and people will have to accept that because as I said, I know my rights. Enforcement officers have only an implied right of access, therefore no one will get past my door as I will not give permission to anyone to stick their nose into my privacy and I will not be hassled for telling the truth and nor do I have to prove anything, that is their job if they are prepared to waste the time and money in doing so when it is much easier to screw over people that haven't got a clue.

 

But if you are that interested check Youtube, there are loads of videos on there uploaded by helpful people on how to deal with these scamsters and indeed there are websites up on the internet telling you exactly what to do, but they are more aimed at those that want to watch tv but not pay for a licence, whereas myself I don't watch tv, nor do I have the equipment to receive or record live tv, so I don't need a tv license, but I get hassled from time to time, so I clue myself up as I will not be screwed over on my doorstep by these people who are in actual fact trained as salesmen that being for everyone they bust they get commission. And it was one enforcement officer that came to my door, I recognised him as someone who used to go to a pub I use, a regular face, hence my recognition I have talked to him there, but I say he used to go, because after him visiting me he has not been seen since in that pub, I wonder why.

[Special_talent123]

illegal is watching T.V without a license, do not patronise me.

[Special_talent123]

and excuse me - i am autistic and I do not lie watsoever

[Special_talent123]

TV licensing website says if your caught out u could face prosecution and £1,000 fine

[Sa Skimrande]

and excuse me - i am autistic and I do not lie watsoever

 

So why is it you are assuming I am ?

 

As to post to say what the TV licensing website says, the implication I am receiving is you believe me to be a liar and a fraud that is breaking the 2003 Communications act ?

[Special_talent123]

This conversation is over, because your not admitting what I am saying is the truth. and trying to twist my words around. If you are not lying then why not say it? but u just make us guess

[Sa Skimrande]

What you are saying is the truth if you are breaking the law whereas nowhere in the above did I say I was breaking the law as I do not need a tv licence through saying I do not have the equipment to receive or record live tv as it broadcasted in post no 33 or did you miss that?

 

And I am not twisting your words around though you are implying I am a liar and a fraud which I understand is an automatic reaction because I refuse to let so called enforcement officers invade my privacy as I am not obliged to but if one phones them up and tells then you do not need a tv licence they say fine, but they will continue to hassle albeit with less frequency because it's their job. I will not be made out to be a liar and a fraud by people that want to sell me something that I do not need.

 

But you said in post no.35;

 

''and excuse me - i am autistic and I do not lie watsoever'

 

I have to ask is that a special case that applies to you only or do other autistic people deserve the benefit of the doubt too ?

[Special_talent123]

your patronising me