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Zebedee

Aspergers and 'lying'?

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Hello All.

 

My son is 8, was diagnosed with AS at 6. Im very confused as he has been lying lately. One lie was a big lie which got me into trouble with the person in question when i confronted them.

He seemed so genuine, couldn't possibly have been a lie but it was. He says he was confused. maybe he was? I don't know. He manages to tell small lies easily too. 'Have u put your grey socks on for school?'... 'yes!' When i check he has different socks on. He tries to hide them.

I hope this post isn't too confusing as I am confused.

Ok so basically, has anyone else experienced lying with AS?

 

Thank u for reading xx

Z

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This is interesting. My son is completely incapable of lying. He did experiment once and told one lie to me, which I saw through immediately. I asked him, "are you lying to me", to which he quite matter-of-factly answered "yes". :)

 

I think it takes quite a lot of imagination to lie. You have to believe that the other person does not know that what you are saying isn't true, I think in my son's case, he just assumed that people will know what he knows and so know if he is lying so he had no reason or desire to lie.

 

I'm not sure how I'd approach it if I were you. I would maybe totally ignore the small, insignificant lies and just challenge the larger ones that could be damaging. In those cases, I might come up with some kind of punishment for having told a lie maybe.

 

~ Mel ~

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My 9 year old lies when he is unhappy about something or when someone has annoyed him. In the past he has lied about teachers hitting him(started that when he was 3 at pre-school!) Sometimes I think its so that he does'nt have to go into school. He does'nt do that anymore as he is quite happy at his current school. Also he lies about food he has eaten.

 

My 7 year old who also has ASD does not lie at all,not even little white lies.

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My son is capable of lying. Some lies have been well thought through, and must mean he has quite good theory of mind. Others have been easier to spot. I think the 'reasons' someone with an ASD lies can be different though.

 

Rather than lying, ie. about the socks thing, he may have just said 'yes' because it was easier than explaining he hadn't put the socks on you asked him to and to explain why he had done that. So did you ask him why he had not put the grey socks on?

 

My son has a severe speech and language disorder [processing speech and formulating sentences] and so he sometimes says things to basically shut us up so we stop asking him questions.

Edited by Sally44

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Hi All,

 

Thank you all so much for replying - some interesting suggestions and thoughts.

Yeah - Good point - he does seem to lie when something is up, his brain focuses differently when something is bothering him. But he has also lied when he seems fine, I don't know. I can keep going round and round with this in my mind.

 

It is also possible for him to give a quick answer to avoid the explanation.

He has a very vast imagination - always on the go....

 

I try not to shout at him, myself and my husband talk it through wtih him, trying to make him see the concequences of lying - we suggested he write the third party involved a letter of apology, which he did.

 

I will look out for any further 'stories' from him and try to get to the bottom of it...

 

Keep your posts coming if you feel you have any further ideas.... Thanks again xxx

Z.

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Is it possible that he misinterpreted something?

 

There is a boy at my son's school that does tease him alot. But there have been occasions when this boy has just been saying funny things to everyone eg. comparing them to characters from The Simpsons. My son, probably focused on something else, did not hear him saying any of the things to the other people. He just heard him being compared to someone on The Simpsons who was bald and fat. He got very upset with that saying this boy had been rude and driving him mad.

 

My son has also overheard people talking and them taken it that they were talking to him or about him. For example at his last school, two adults were saying that if the weather was very bad the next day that they hoped the school would be closed. My son told me these adults had told him not to go into school the next day because it would be closed.

 

He can also repeat things he has heard or seen without thinking about what he is repeating and the consequences of it. I remember another meeting in school, with my son in attendance, when he piped up that he did not think his teacher was so fat that she needed to diet. Apparently, during breaktime, she had been talking to one of the TAs saying she thought she needed to go on a diet!

 

And because he does have difficulties with processing and understanding language, he can get the meaning of what he is told, or what he has heard, completely the wrong way round.

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I dont lie. Instead if someone asks me a question ie how i feeling instead of giving a lie answer because it would be a lie then i dont answer. Say if i say im happy when not thats a lie instead i wouldnt answer in other wotds

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Hi :-)

 

Thanks again for your comments. Sally, yeah it is possible that he misinterpreted my question - A friend of mine suggested this too and made me think...

 

My son does also repeat things that he has heard, often inappropriate things that he likes to announce loudly!! At the moment this is a very indearing quality he has, but not sure how this will be viewed as he gets older. We try to explain to him, but am fearful of crushing him / picking holes just because he is being himself...

 

The being quiet thing instead of lying - My son can remain quiet for ages because he doesn't want to tell me something / maybe he doesn't want to confront what ever is bothering him. The last time was about 30 minutes.

 

Going back to the 'grey socks' thing... - yes, when I asked him why he didn't put them on he said 'I don't know'.

he says I don't know a lot, and I believe him. I genuinely think he doesn't know why he says things sometimes.

Like this big lie he told - he says he didn't know why he said it - maybe because he did misinterpret it as mentioned before...

 

He gets things muddled / the wrong way round too. For his English homework, he can either do sentences or a story. This came into effect last week. When I asked him if it was the same for this week too (sentences OR story) he said 'you don't get it do you? We have to do one or the other' I said, 'yes, so it is one or the other this week then?' 'you don't understand Mum!'

Then I calmy and clearly asked 'so, are you going to choose to do sentences or a story this week?' he then understood and answered 'sentences'.

I need to remember to speak clearly and basically spell out what I am asking.

 

Of course, the school don't notice how this affects him. We get the meltdowns after school!

 

I do love him with all my heart and wouldn't change him for the world :-)

 

Thanks again,

Z

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Our son (9, HFA) is quite capable of telling sories which are (from an objective point of view) lies, but which are a desciption of how he thinks things ought to be. It's like a parallel world where everything fits into his frame of mind.

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Yes many things are taken literally, language included. Have a look at Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder. A child can be very verbal and yet still have a severe or profound speech and language disorder.

 

My son also says "I don't know" alot. He needs alot of time to reply to a question.

 

Sometimes I think with language, my son says things that get the predictable outcome he wants. So, for example, if he did not want to go to school [for a real reason like feeling ill, or feeling anxious], he might say something he has heard or seen on TV if that phrase on TV got the result he wants. He doesn't do this so much now, but he did more when he was younger.

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Hi All - I'm sitting here reading your comments, nodding my head! I know exactly where you are all coming from!

Sally - Thank you for the suggestion - I will look Google the speech disorder. Never even considered it could be a speech disorder but it makes sense :) He too picks things up from adverts etc!

He didn't tell the truth again last night. I sat down with him and asked him why he didn't tell me the truth - he got very upset and said that he didn't know. He says he is a terrible lier and can't stop lying.... I asked him if he knows that he isn't telling the truth - he said he does know. Then asked him to just stop and think before not telling the truth... I have said that even if the truth is 'bad' it is worse to lie.

I think this kind of goes in to his head..... I am so lenient with him - I do understand it must be so difficult for him....

 

Shnoing: It has certainly taught me to look at his 'lying' differently, like maybe it is just his view of the world like you say. I kind of always felt that he doesn't lie on purpose - sometimes yes he probably does but I can pretty much tell. When he tells stories other times he is so genuine that he couldn't be lying - simply expressing himself maybe....

 

Thanks for your replies Special Talent - it is great to hear your point of view :-)

 

Thanks again guys :)

Z

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I do what I can to avoid lying because I go red in the face whether im embarrassed (social anxiety) or guilty so both faces are exactly the same.

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Hi there

 

Had lots of problems a year or so ago with my son.

 

On one occasion, he came home from school and told me that his teacher had pushed him. He'd apparently walked out of class and was about to head out of the doors to exit the building. His teacher had instructed him to go back into the building whereby R bumped into the doors, which in turn threw them open knocking him over. R was very clear that his teacher had pushed him. Thankfully, I called the HT and was careful to state that I was aware something had happened, but unsure what, and told her what R had said. It became clear that R's perception of the situation was that his teacher had pushed him. He deemed her responsible for him being pushed because she insisted he go back into the building – she hadn't literally pushed him but her instructions had led to him being pushed by the door,and so he deemed his teacher to have been responsible. We've been in other situations when R was upset with us and told us we'd regret upsetting him. He duly went into school and told his LA that we'd been hitting him. Needless to say, a social worker was called. R panicked and eventually told social worker that he was angry with us. So, that one was a bit of a whopper!

 

There were lots of other examples of situations like the two outlined. Some school staff felt R was telling blatant lies, but when one actually breaks things down, in the first example, he wasn't lying. He was stating his perception of situations.

I'm not saying that ASD kids don't tell lies (mine certainly has!), but I think it's important to consider that there may be issues relating to how a child perceives things.

 

It was tackled by providing a social story on fact and fiction with the focus being on actual sequence of events.

 

Caroline.

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I agree with many of the previous suggestions: different perceptions of what had actually happened, language comprehension problems etc. I`ve also met people on the spectrum who have told me apparent "whoppers". They have later turned out to be either wishful thinking -what they think should have happened or want to happen, TV storylines ( that gave me many frights until I recognised one of the stories as an episode of casualty!!) or what they think I want to hear. These confabulations have never been of ill intent but demonstrated a difference in thinking style. Its always interesting trying to work out whats underneath it all and sometimes, frustratingly, we just cant. But we keep trying...................

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I agree with many of the previous suggestions: different perceptions of what had actually happened, language comprehension problems etc. I`ve also met people on the spectrum who have told me apparent "whoppers". They have later turned out to be either wishful thinking -what they think should have happened or want to happen, TV storylines ( that gave me many frights until I recognised one of the stories as an episode of casualty!!) or what they think I want to hear. These confabulations have never been of ill intent but demonstrated a difference in thinking style. Its always interesting trying to work out whats underneath it all and sometimes, frustratingly, we just cant. But we keep trying...................

How do you convince the other person they have got the wrong side of the story though when they keep getting so confused?

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By the other person do you mean the person on the spectrum or who they are talking to? If the person on the spectrum, I find that writing/drawing out a diagramme of who says what and why can help showing what both sides are thinking at the time. Clearly seeing the disparity can be illustrative. Doesnt always work of course though.

Of course it also depends on how people are feeling. A person on the specrum may be so "overloaded" both sensorily and with the underlying emotions of the moment that they may just not be available for a logical discussion. Timing can be key and there`s something about chosing your battles here. As I said we keep trying! Sorry no easy answers.

Edited by nippy sweetie

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I know I used to think up the most bizarre, see-through, and implausible lies when I was a child. Sometimes it was just because I wasn't sure how to answer a question or because it conflicted with other information I'd been given. So someone I didn't know might ask me, say, "What's your name?" and having been taught all about stranger danger and things like that, I might blurt out something like "I don't have a name" and go into a long explanation of why nobody gave me a name and what they call me instead. I guess it would be adorable from a certain perspective if it hadn't gotten me into trouble so much.

 

I've never found lying easy though (and I tend to think I'm much better at lying than I really am, which is pretty dangerous). I've learned the "technically true" method instead. It's not lying, so I don't have any kind of a mental block about it, and I'm less likely to forget what I said than if I lied outright. If I mention to someone that my cat needed to be taken to the vet and I didn't think I could make the event-- totally true, I have had several cats who were ill over the years and I often feel like I can't deal with large amounts of people-- and they happen to infer that I couldn't turn up because I had to take my cat to the vet [recently], well, that's... not my problem. Sort of.

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... If I mention to someone that my cat needed to be taken to the vet and I didn't think I could make the event-- totally true, I have had several cats who were ill over the years and I often feel like I can't deal with large amounts of people-- and they happen to infer that I couldn't turn up because I had to take my cat to the vet [recently], well, that's... not my problem. Sort of.

That so resembles the train of thoughts of William de Worde in TP's "The Truth". LOL

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I have recently been told by my son's teacher thst he lies. He squirted some water up the wall because another boy told him to (and he frequently blindly follows the other childrens' requests to try and fit in) then told the teacher the other boy did it. I guess in his mind he was just doing as told so wasn't responsible. However his teacher, a NQT didn't think this was good enough and told me of his 'lies'. 2 weeks later he was diagnosed with AS.

 

He also says "I don't know" in answer to nearly all questions, including what he wants to eat or wear. He's been like this since he could first talk!

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... He also says "I don't know" in answer to nearly all questions, including what he wants to eat or wear. He's been like this since he could first talk!

That's a consequence of not being really aware of one's emotions.I think it comes under the heading of "weak central coherence", too. I still have this problem (too) when having to choose from a menu in a restaurant, and I'm 42 now!

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He also says "I don't know" in answer to nearly all questions, including what he wants to eat or wear. He's been like this since he could first talk!

 

This reminds me of my son when he was young. He had very well-developed language early on but had quirks with his communication. He had a habit of as soon as anyone started to say anything to him, even just as they were starting to say the first word, he would pitch in with 'what did you say', he said it in a robotic voice. It was obvious that he hadn't even begun to listen to what the person had started to say, in fact he'd interrupt them to say 'what did you say'. It was quite frustrating because you hadn't even had a chance to say it yet!

 

Another habit he had was that when you'd said what you wanted to say, the next thing he would say would be 'I don't know'. He would say this instantly to anything you asked or said to him, 'what did you say' followed straight away by 'I don't know'. We used to get quite irritated with him sometimes, but it's as if he really wasn't thinking about what he was saying, he wasn't hearing or answering the question, he was just instantly coming out with 'I don't know' as a kind of mantra. He very obviously did know the answer to the majority of things we were asking him, it was just a verbal habit almost.

 

~ Mel ~

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Oxgirl it sounds like a vocal tic your son had.

 

Decisions can be really overwhelming for autistics, confidence or not being able to work out the 'right' answer are often an issue. Sometimes being so used to people doing things for you ie mollycoddling that you say 'I don't know' because you think the other person has all the answers.

 

I doubt this is anything to do with lying though.

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No, I didn't think it had anything to do with lying, was just highlighting a similarity with the other poster. It was more a reflex response really and in the end we got him to just slow down and wait a moment to hear what we were saying before coming out with it and it did stop in the end.

 

~ Mel ~

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