WHen is too much Too much ?

[streamdreams]

in the news Court Bans Complaining mum

 

In a county that is normaly consider so pro childeren i find this amazing. perhaps we should be carefull which battles we fight

 

J

[Hectorshouse]

hmmmm food for thought this one ... but she must've had a point or reason for her unhappiness with the school, surely thats where the problems lay but without knowing the whole case I don't know.

 

I'm trying to add up my letters, school x 5, visits to school ... farrrr to numerous to mention, lea x 5, other bods x 20 ... ooopssss can feel the court order looming.

 

HHxx

[linss]

I admire her for having the courage to keep going and refusing to accept less than what she feels her child deserves.Saying that though in practice i have found the "softly softly catchy monkey" approach works for me. When other parents at school were constantly complaining about my son it definately worked in my favour that i was the parent who had the good relationship with the school.

I've found putting my point across in a calm, polite way has been my best weapon.

[slt101]

I've found putting my point across in a calm, polite way has been my best weapon.

I would always endorse the calm approach. As a professional I will endeavour to do everything in my power for someone approaches me in a calm and collected manor. Shouting, yelling, using threatening language does not inspire me to go above and beyond to help.

 

With reference to the court case, the Netherlands is such a laid back country I wonder what this woman did to provoke this judgement?

[Tez]

Oh dear looks like I may be in trouble then....but at least after my phone calls I'm always thanked for having been so polite, so probably they don't count....and I probably could save all my "comments" up and place them on one very large sheet of paper once a month instead of emailing or faxing immediately.

[helenl53]

Hi SLT - Where did you go to - haven't seen you around for a while.

 

I absolutely agree about politeness. There is no need for shouting and bawling.

 

How on earth will the children learn if parents are screetching. I also know that school staff expect parents to be kicking off and so they can not cope when you aproach them in a focused and calm manner.

 

I have just been through a Tribunal and my husband and I were absolutely astounded at the bad manners displayed by the lea. They spoke whilst we were asking questions of the SENCO. They argued with the Chair and they huffed and puffed and grunted noisily during the procedings.

 

It is on my agenda to speak to the head of PPS about the lack of deference to the chair and the appalingly badly behaved officer and Psycho. The Tribunal was the place for everyone to debate the matters as adults with self control and showing respect for everyone there.

 

It was so bad - it was laughable!

 

Best wishes

 

HelenL

[Kathryn]

I always try to be polite even if it's through gritted teeth. I only lost it completely when I got the decision about the statement - I completely let rip at the one person who had been brave enough to speak to me and give me the negative news. Her superior had the cheek to write to me about my "offensive manner" - I probably therefore have the dubious honour of being the only person on this forum to be the subject of a complaint from the LEA. I replied with an apology to the person concerned - whilst admitting nothing - and pointed out the stress THEY had caused ME over twelve months.

 

I wasn't that offensive - I didn't threaten to kill her. I merely said I'd had enough of this stupid LEA nonsense - (replace 'stupid' and 'nonsense' with more colourful epithets of your choice and you get the general idea. But offensive?? Never. )

 

I was suffering from flu as well. A body can only take so much.

[slt101]

Hi SLT - Where did you go to - haven't seen you around for a while.

Hi HelenL, the beginning of term/school year is always hectic and I've only just been able to get round to checking the forum.

 

It appears that we are all adults here and know how we should communicate with members of the LEA etc but during my time as a SLT I couldn't repeat the things that have been said to me, or tell you about the parents that have threatened physical violence, or the time when a mother spat on my shoe. Is it no wonder we take a defensive stance as we don't know what reaction we will receive.

[linss]

A body can only take so much.

I do agree with you here ,there are times when it's all just to much ,we're only human and if you went off on one then your body needed to let out that anger .As i said yesterday i 've found that calmness works best but not if it means too much surpressing of our feelings and perhaps it doen't hurt once in a while for the powers that be to see first hand how hard it is to live with their decisions.

[slt101]

I do agree with you here ,there are times when it's all just to much ,we're only human and if you went off on one then your  body needed to let out that anger .As i said yesterday i 've found that calmness works best but not if it means too much surpressing of our feelings and perhaps it doen't hurt once in a while for the powers that be to see first hand how hard it is to live with their decisions.

 

 

I am afraid I disagree, once you let the authorities see you loose control you would undoubtedly be labelled. And for the comment about being able to show your anger because we are human probably wouldn't be a good defence in court.

 

In my experience, my LEA is far more worried about parents that are able to make their point in a calm but directive manner.

Edited October 8, 2005 by slt101

[Kathryn]

It's difficult to remain calm when you have been punched in the stomach, metaphorically speaking, which is what happened to me on the phone. I did not intend to lose control - it just happened. Probably will never happen again as I have grown a thick layer of cynicism since. I now operate from the principle that no LEA official is to be trusted, and then I won't ever be shocked or surprised by anything they do.

[call me jaded]

Having displayed the patience of a saint towards the rocky start to SEN transport that has been going on for an entire month of daily late arrivals, no shows, or no escort, which is impacting on my other children's highly desired 100% school attendance record, my husband's and my own ability to earn (TG we're both self-employed), not to mention dragging my mother out of her bed to come and help out - all of which had been painstakingly explained - my blast of ' Your f-ing system isn't working!' does actually seem to have been the kick up the @rse that was required to sort the (very simple) problem out. If I'm to believe the phone call I received an hour later, that is.

 

So whilst I agree in principle that one is taken more seriously when polite, persistant, and most importantly well-informed, there are some 'professionals' with a hide as thick as a rhino's.

 

You have to do what you have to do.

[bid]

I'm going to jump in with both feet on this one

 

I am a parent of a child with Special Needs, and I am also a professional who works with young adults with Special Needs. So I feel I can speak from both perspectives.

 

Working in the profession is not the same as actually being a parent. As a professional you may feel 'stressed', but this in no way can be compared with the stress that parents experience.

 

Most of the stress that parents experience is a direct result of dealing with professionals and 'the system'. If we didn't have to fight for every single, tiny bit of help and support that our children morally and legally deserve, we would not experience anywhere near as much stress. slt101 perhaps you should read the thread in General Discussion about how many of us are taking anti-depressants.

 

Of course, we parents would still go through the grieving cycle when we receive a diagnosis for our children. We would still live with the chronic worry for our children, BUT we would not be driven to despair if we didn't have to fight the authorities and the professionals for the help we need.

 

In my experience, the professionals who engage with parents with respect, deep understanding and a willingness to learn from us, are in turn treated with respect and gratitude by parents. They understand that sometimes parents can over-react, because we are fighting for our children and their future.

 

Of course, physical aggression is never acceptable, but as a professional I understand when parents get cross, shout or cry. So would anyone if they were engaged in a relentless struggle for someone they love so deeply. If we parents don't fight for our children, absolutely no one else will fight for them.

 

I am one of the 'lucky' parents: I was successful in finally getting the right help for my son, although it took me 10 years. But I now have to fight to maintain that help, ironically because he's doing so well.

 

As a professional it just takes some empathy and imagination to make parents feel that you are 'on their side'. Those professionals who have worked with me to help my son, are the ones who also feel that 'the system' is wrong, and they are, quite simply, my heroes.

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

Bid ,

 

Well said

 

 

K x

[annie]

Bid,

 

I totally agree with you too

 

It is said that the most traumatic things in life are Moving house, someone dying and divorce. I haven't been through a divorce, but lost both my parents and moved quite a bit over the years, but I have to say that getting help for my son has had more of an effect on my life than either of them. It's been relentless.

 

The people that we have dealt with over the years have never shown an ounce of compassion or understanding, many have lied through their teeth on occassions too.

 

I was always a shy person, until I had to wake up to the fact that if I stayed that way, I wouldn't have been able to get any help for my son. I would never resort to physical agression, but I know for sure that I couldn't sit back and let these people get away with doing nothing for my son.

 

Annie

<'>

[Tez]

Bid, Annie,

 

I agree with you both. Like Annie, I was, and still am, a very shy person. However, one of my biggest regrets is that I allowed my lack of confidence to be used by my son's schools to persuade me that I was wrong and that he didn't require any additional help. When A was diagnosed this all changed, I realised that I had been right all along and that I now had a stick to beat the school with and I was going to use it.

 

I have always tried to be polite and work with the school. I try always not to allocate blame. I am not an angry or aggressive person but I am fighting for my child and there are times when the frustrations of hitting my head against a brick wall are all abit too much. I was asked by the Head of Home and Hospital to stop shouting at her last week when I was pointing out the legal requirements of providing home tuition to my son. I don't believe I had even raised my voice, I have heard from the Deputy Head at my son's school that she uses this ploy to put parents down and make them doubt their actions, but if I did, can I really be blamed? She sat on the end of a phone smuggly telling me over and over again that there was no law in this land that said that my son had to receive any home tuition because he was sick it was a service that the LEA could chose to supply, and in any case he hadn't been off school since April, only June because that's when she'd received the paperwork; she wouldn't listen to anything I had to say and the LEA were pushing me around in circles.

 

I agree, it is little wonder that sometimes parents lose it and sometimes act in a manner that they would have preferred not to and I think sometimes these professionals should have a little more empathy and not take everything as a personal attack.

Edited October 9, 2005 by Tez

[annie]

Tez,

 

In my experience, my LEA is far more worried about parents that are able to make their point in a calm but directive manner.

 

I'm sorry, but in my experience and many others that I know of, that is not the case.

 

Annie

[slt101]

Annie, we will have to agree to disagree, it may appear that more is done when you explode with a string of expletives but I can assure you that the LEA I work with take no notice.

[oracle]

My LEA just take no notice full stop. There are people within our LEA who actively dislike parents. We are seen as being and outright intruders. How do you keep calm when you have to deal with people like that?

 

Carole

[annie]

I have never exploded with a string of expletives at anyone I have dealt with along the way, and I haven't said anywhere that I have either. but I haven't sat back at accepted being told lies either. What I have done is involved people like IPSEA and my MP to expose how my LEA are letting SEN children down.

 

IPSEA are investigating my LEA at the moment, they have also been in the past involved in a high court case with IPSEA which is mentioned on their website.

Edited October 9, 2005 by annie

[bid]

QUOTE: slt101 'As a professional I will endeavour to do everything in my power for someone who approaches me in a calm and collected manner.'

 

slt101, surely as a professional you should be endeavouring to do everything in your power for the child in question, irrespective of your opinion of their parents??

 

I do apologise if I am wrong, but unfortunately your posts to date rather give the impression that you have little understanding of the acute stress and anxiety experienced by the parents of children with special needs.

 

Bid

[bid]

I also think that when parents first become involved with the various professionals, the majority of us are terrified, but trustingly think that here at last are the people who have the knowledge and power to help our children.

 

It comes as a profound shock and betrayal when we are told that there are waiting lists of months or even years for a basic diagnosis, let alone anything like Physio, OT and SALT. You begin to realise that absolutely nothing will be done to help your child unless you fight.

 

Then you encounter the LEA...and again you might trustingly think that as your child has a diagnosis, may even by this point be registered disabled, of course support will now be forthcoming...

 

And then you start to despair, as you realise that some of these professionals are quite prepared to lie and ignore legal requirements and government guidelines...

 

In an ideal world, all parents would remain unfailingly calm and polite...and they would never break down in tears through sheer desperation and sick worry in the consulting room either. But then, in an ideal world, all professionals would treat parents with respect, compassion, understanding and honesty!

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

For a whole year I and my husband took the calm, measured apporoach, believing that this would gain our LEA's support and cooperation. We were calm even after months of being lied to and dealt with in a very dismissive, hostile and aggressive manner. When we eventually came face to face in a meeting with the official responsible for much of this we still remained calm and pleasant, still believing this was the best way to get things done. My husband made a lighthearted remark about my daughter being interested in French Philosophy - it was a casual throwaway comment to keep the atmosphere congenial. Everyone laughed at the time.

 

Later we found that this remark had made its way into the minutes, twisted out of context and used against us to support the decision to refuse my daughter a statement.

 

Slt101, you may have a different species in your LEA, but these are the kind of deceptive, manipulative people I am dealing with in mine. They do not invite or deserve any respect whatsoever. However, I agree with you that it is better to remain calm and not to explode if one can help it.

 

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Edited October 10, 2005 by Kathryn

[call me jaded]

Actually I never swear, ever. My children think 'shut up' is really bad. It's a question of being pushed to the limit.

 

My son changed schools in September. During the holidays I agreed an 8.30am pickup time, as my other children's school starts at 5 to 9 . The first bus was getting to us at 9-ish having started at the other side of the borough at 7.30am. It was agreed that this wasn't working but it took a little while to put a contract out to tender so when my husband got fed up with starting work so late (he's normally out of the house at 7am) my mother volunteered to come to our house every morning to wait with my eldest boy whilst I did the school run. Then we had the new contract of his own taxi, but no escort, or going across the borough to pick up the escort and being continually late. Then by Wednesday we'd got a permanent escort. Yippee do. Friday a different taxi driver turns up (the usual one's friend) and tries to get me to let my son go with him whilst his mate picks up the escort and they meet on the way. What a joke.

 

So there we have it. An entire month of the threat of late marks (and we did get one or two, most memorably on the day it was 12.30pm before all my children were where they should be) has left my daughter crying on her way into school every day. And whilst I'm not proud of my expletive (it has been a one off) it produced an extremely apologetic phone call and what seems to be a change to their system.

 

If you happened to be my son's therapist slt101, particularly if it was the day we got them all off at 12.30pm, then you may not get a very appreciative response to an hour's delay in your services. Don't take it personally.

[smallworld]

I never used to swear, now I'm an expert !!

I need to get back into the habit of saying 'blooming', 'flipping'... etc. before I begin to sound like a ******* teenager !

I have been driven to it, that's my excuse

wac

Edited October 10, 2005 by waccoe

[call me jaded]

Well, well. Since my outburst on Friday, SEN transport is now working.

[annie]

Well well..........Well done Jaded

Annie

<'>

[UltraMum]

As Christians my husband and I have always tended to 'look for the good' when dealing with people - whenever, wherever ... however after having been lied to and had it suggested that we needed counselling rather than our son needing support ...

 

I now operate from the principle that no LEA official is to be trusted, and then I won't ever be shocked or surprised by anything they do.

 

... I agree wholeheartedly with the above sentiment.

 

We have had refusals when we have asked to bring someone along to take notes on our behalf after several times when something was said in a meeting and then denied to our face. We now provide all officials with a detailed set of minutes of all that has been said at meetings - I won't explain how ... - and ask them to let us know if they disagree with anything in our notes.

 

It certainly helps to keep records of absolutely everything - you never know what will be denied.

 

SLT - professionals can go home and relax - a luxury that many parents of ASD children would love to have as an option ...

 

SS say my son's autism is not severe enough to warrant respite provision ... that's probably why I've been on the maximum dosage of my anti-depressants for a year and I still feel like staying under the duvet and never coming out ... but I don't have that as an option

 

Professionals can take a day off sick when they are unwell - not so parents of ASD children - we HAVE to keep on keeping on ...

 

Small wonder that when dealing with unhelpful, unfeeling, untruthful and adversarial people then sometimes our feelings come out ...