Measles Mumps Rubella Booster for Teenagers

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi,

 

When my son turned 15 he had a reaction to the Measles Mumps Rubella injection. Did any of you have your son or daughter get their booster for MMR at age 15 and notice their health deteriorate.

 

My son one week after the injection developed anxiety, Irritable Bowel & Irritable Bladder, he had to visit the doctor for almost 2 years before they could get this all under control. Apparently its like it spread the measles through his colon. Later with counselling he was put on tablets for Anxiety Luvox.

 

I am really interested to hear if any of you have had the same experience. Its like it made my sons ASD worse.

 

I look forward to your stories.

 

Regards

Hailey

[oracle]

Hi Hailey,

 

This happened to my son David but he was only 11 at the time. There was a Measle outbreak where we live and all Primary School children were re-vaccinated. At this point we did not know that David was autistic, although I had been saying from him having the MMR that there was something wrong and that he had changed almost overnight. David was one of the first, and also oldest, to have the MMR. Apart from the fact that he started having convulsions within ten days of the first jab, his general health went downhill fast. He also lost his social skills. After the booster when he was 11 again he changed almost overnight and I have said this so many times. After the booster he became aggressive and developed terrible mood swings. He went from being a boy who had never ever had behavioural problems in school to a boy who questioned everything and was none to nice about it. His teacher actually sent for me and asked what had happened? However within a few weeks he changed schools and that was when the nighmare began for real. The aggression and the mood swings were totally out of control.At the time I was unsure but now I am not. David also developed serious bowel problems although they are still saying that this is Irritable Bow syndrome. It's not. For time to time he also had an Irritable Bladder. David finally got the dx aged 13. I will not let either of my two have any more vaccines, which may be stupid but when you have watched a child regress and some then you will understand.

 

I have spoke to Paul Shattock about this but David will not allow anyone to do any tests on him - so it's difficult to prove - but I am 100% sure of what happened now.

 

It's good to actually hear from someone who feels like I do that not only the first MRR played it's part in David's autism but the booster had a much worse effect on him.

 

Carole

Edited November 1, 2005 by carole

[ceecee]

Hi

My daughter had the first mmr at ten months no problems what so ever.She went on to develop entirely normally until she was four years old.She then had her mmr booster within a week she had lost her speech, her understanding, didn't answer you when you called her etc etc.Over the next three months she got worst and worst she began(unknown to me at the time) to display every autistic trait going e.g. running up and down needlessly, spinning flicking and looking at her hands, teeth grinding, sleeping for four hours a night(previously she had gone through the night at 12 weeks never had a disturbed night) she kept hiding under and in things, she made odd noises, laughed for no apparent reason, stood on her head all the time kept falling over I coulg go on and on.I was first dismissed by a health visitor and a dr as a neurotic mother(have to laugh before this in her four years I had taken her to the doctors a total of 5 times)After a couple of weeks we were finally referred after much pushing to a paediatrician, thank goodness for that old but fantastic paediatrician.He took one look at my daughter under the couch in his room and said how many children do you think I see like this.Before I could answer he said none that just suddenly go like this from one week to the next.I had a list of no less than thirty odd symptoms she had suddenly began to display.He said she is going to gt ormand street within hours she had a bed.They did various brain scans on her and after four days come to the conclusion that she had hellers syndrome late onset autism caused by the mmr although the cause could not be proved!!!!Yeah right.They predicted that was her for the rest of her life but much to their amazement within three months she was back to normal and the diagnosis was changed to autstic encephalitus of the brain.

 

She is now 8 and a half years old has made a full recovery.She is the same little girl I had before the mmr booster and you would never know.She is popular with loads of friends and lives life to the full.The only thing she cant do is sing a fast pop song and I have read somewhere this is common if you have had a brain infection.I was told any symptons left after two years would stay.There are none left.

 

I went on to have a son who is now nearly four.He is surprise surprise completely non vaccinated even down to his vitamin k being given orally.My daughter has never had another vaccination from that day to this.We were advised by gt ormand street that they should not be vaccinated.

 

From the minute I fell pregnant with my son until he was two years old I suffered with depression, fear panic and anxiety attacks.I guess you could say it was post traumatic stress disorder caused by the mmr.I cant remember him as a baby I couldnt bond with him and did everything on auto piolot.

 

In fact he is absolutely fine and i cannot see one sign of autism aspergers or anything else.I Have recently realised I have very mild aspergers and my brother and father whom I didn't know at the time(personal family reasons)I suspect of having aspergers a bit worst than mine.

 

So yes the booster can and definately does in some cases cause a big problem.Ironically I was told she may not have needed the booster as she could well have been protected enough from the first mmr.The booster is to catch those who miss the first.A simple blood test would have told us.But guess what I was told this after the event.

[oracle]

I have to say that I believe that David was autistic from birth. I now know that AS runs though my family, although it's not been diagnosed in most of those who have it. I do also believe that if there is a fragile gene then MMR, along with other vaccines, can turn up the heat or in some cases trigger the ASD. I have heard of another case like yours ceecee a child given a dx of autistic encephalitis of the brain, but then maybe it was your daughter I was reading about?

 

There were also other factors involved with David that I know played there parts. A few weeks after the booster he changed schools. Six weeks after the change of school David was hit by a car while going to school. That changed the dimension of things again. David had a full breakdown and the aggression just grew and grew. I pleaded for a brain scan, as he suffered head injuries, but was told that they were not serious head injuries. Well they sure as hell had a serious impact. David fell like a pack of cards and it has been a very long and hard climb for him to regain anything of his former self. I still look at him and wonder where he went? That must sound dreadful and it is certainly painful.

 

Matthew had his first set of vaccinations but no others. He did not have the MMR but still has the autism. That of course makes the experts right about there being no connection and myself wrong. They are allowed to think what ever they wish to think and they cannot stop me from thinking what I know to be true.

 

Carole

[elainem]

I have read many peices about children who have regressed after the booster MMr. My ASD son age 5 had the MMR and I do not beleive that caused his ASD due to his poor development prior. However I did not allow the booster and I am not going to give him any other vaccines. He has low immunity and I would love him to have flu jab but am even scared of that.

 

Elaine

[oracle]

Elaine I would not even think about the Flu jab unless you could be certain it had no mercury in it. You would have to ask. A couple of years ago there was a link to this jab and Alzheimer?s although of course it was rubbished. However my own Dad had the flu jab and his health regressed a great deal after the jab. There were others who reported the same thing had happened to their elderly relatives. My Dad's memory got even worse after his second jab. He refused the third, probably because of me. This jab contains the same mercury that they have now removed from baby?s vaccines.

 

Carole

[ceecee]

I would never consider the flu jab not for any of us my husband and myself included.This sounds dreadful but i dread them offering everone the vaccination for bird flu because it puts me in a terrible position, What if they get bird flu because i didn't let them have the jab.I just cant do it though.There is definately a link between themercury in the vaccinations and autism, i@m sure of it.I think that some children have a gene in them that makes them subseptible to autism after the jab either encephalitus like my daughter or I think it can make their aspergers or autism worst.

 

I really sympathise with you carole I kept saying where has my little girl gone.Why did they take her away.Incidentally I know of another boy to whom exactly the same thing happened to.The last I heard is that he had made a fairly good recovery but not a complete recovery like my daughter.We really appreciate how lucky we are.Incidentally whilst my daughter was in gt ormond street a little four year old boy there had gone blind after his mmr booster.I think he did recover eventually.

 

I would never consider giving the flu jab if my asd son had previously had a reaction to an mmr booster but thats just my personal opinion.

[ceecee]

Sorry forgot to add there was no way my daughter showed any signs of aspergers and or autism prior to the booster.i know the symptoms of both inside out and backwoods so I know that to be the case.In fact one parent actually described her as the life and soul of the party!So I know without a doubt that the mmr booster definately caused my daughter's autistic encephalitus.You wouldn't have a normal child one week and a full blown autistic one two weeks later!!

[bid]

My 16 year old son was offered this MMR booster by his school.

 

I was unsure, but then he made up my mind for me by just refusing to have it!!

 

Bid

[call me jaded]

Melanie Phillips wrote about the Cochrane report into MMR in today's DM:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=4293

[smiley]

Having a read through this reminds me of a friend who's child developed completely NT until the day of her MMR jab at 18 months. She is now severly handicapped - Kranner Autism.

 

Her mum fought long and hard - and again, as cecee said, Great Ormonds tested her. The cause was without a doubt the MMR jab. The consultants were fed up with meeting children who have been affected like this. But alot of their views were conviniently ignored - to the point where one Dr lost his job, it is ridiculous.

 

When it was time for Michael to have his jab at 18 months i refused it. He was having difficulties then, although i didn't realise he had Aspergers. I remember my friend saying children where more suseptable if 1) They have had bowel problems (M has bowel obstruction surgery at 9months), 2) There is a histroy of Autism in the family 3) A parent or close relative has an auto immune illness (i was, at the time being assessed - poss. Lupus - which is an auto immune illness). There were more things that contributed to a child being more likely - i cant remember them now.

 

I still refused, and each time i went into the Drs surgery they would ask me to bring him in. I explained my views, but to this day, they still bug me with it. I have told them i would be happy for a non-mercury single jabs......no money for that....so i've said until they 'find' some money - no thanks.

 

I do worry that M may pick up something that i should have vaccinated him against - i just cannot bring myself to do it - not after seeing all that my friend went through.

[Helen]

Both my children (16yrs and 13yrs) were offered the MMR booster earlier this year as there was an outbreak of Mumps in the school.

 

They didn't have the booster because I wouldn't sign the consent form.

[elainem]

Carole, thanks for the info about the flu jab. def feel I did the right thing now, not allowing it.

 

Elaine

[Lucas]

I'm actually quite shocked that Gt Ormands Street made DXs that don't even exist, I think it was really irresponsible.

 

I had the MMR booster recently too, it does NOT make anyone more Autistic nor can it cause Autism, my Autistic 'traits' became more obvious afterwards for the same reason vaccines often cause mild illness for a period afterwards. If anyone bothered to put this to real scrutiny they may find that just about ANY illness can 'cause' Autism in specific people with a 'vulnerability' to 'developing' Autism.

 

It's a case of a panther being painted black and then the ignorant onlooker assumes that the paint made the panther black where it wasn't before.

[ceecee]

The mmr booster was responsible for causing my daughter to have autistic encephalitus of the brain.If she didn't have it this would not have happened.Neither would she have been autistic for six months.

[call me jaded]

I have very strong personal views on this.

 

There really is no scientific evidence either way whether MMR is the cause of autism.

 

But there is lots of scientific evidence that a sub-group of 'people with autism' have compromised immune systems. Perhaps those in that sub-group should be treated like those with auto-immune disease and be left largely unvaccinated.

 

There's a very interesting graph here on the incidence of autism in Japan which shows when MMR was introduced, when MMR uptake dropped because of 'the scare' and when uptake increased:

 

http://www.redflagsweekly.com/articles/2005_mar06_2.html

 

For me the risk of my child having measles mumps or reubella are ones I am prepared to take.

 

Anybody read John Hanchette (founding editor of USA Today) on the flu vaccine?

Edited November 2, 2005 by call me jaded

[Flora]

I was so convinced the MMR had an affect on both my boys I have not took my youngest for the booster (he's 8 now), sadly it was too late for my elder son and I remember vividly the terrible affect the booster had on him (he was forced to have it in USA because they wouldn't let him go to school otherwise!!). His leg swelled up to twice the normal size, he had bowel problems, came out in red bruises all over his body (actually looked like a measels rash), hyperactive, sensitive to EVERYTHING, and totally unable to interact with others. It was utterly devastating and looking back his autistic signs were exacerbated at the time of his first jab, literally over night. My youngest son went from being a totally normally progressing baby to severely autistic within two weeks of having the first MMR. I'm sorry, but nobody will every convince me otherwise that the MMR can trigger, cause, or worsen autism.

 

Lauren

[Noetic]

I'm sorry, but nobody will every convince me otherwise that the MMR can trigger, cause, or worsen autism.

I think what most critics have a problem with is not the fact that SOME children react negatively to the MMR (and it can trigger or worsen autistic symptoms in them), but that companies peddling "cures" tend to claim that ALL cases of autism are caused by the MMR. Which very obviously isn't true, since autistics existed before the MMR, and 'regressive autism' can still occur even with separate or no vaccines. (As a recent study of over 15'000 children in Japan showed)

[ceecee]

Lauren

 

I agree with you.I went from having a normal four year old child one week to a severely autistic one the next after the mmr booster.Because she was four years old I knew she was entirely normal before.She was talking interracting, playing properly an entirely normal four year old.Nothing will convince me that the mmr doen't act as atrigger and either worsens autism or cause it.I think some people are genetically more at risk than others.

 

I am lucky my daughter recovered but had she of gone on the first jab I don't think her brain would have been strong enough to recover.

 

My heart goes out to you.The mmr booster and it's effects left me in a terrible state, I never been the same person since.Even now five years later I get horrifying falshbacks and panic attacks.It also left me unable to bond with my son for two years.I can't describe the fear and the worry of watching him and analysing everything he did each and every day.Neither of mine will be ever having another vaccination.Like Jaded said I'll take the risk thanks.

[call me jaded]

that companies peddling "cures" tend to claim that ALL cases of autism are caused by the MMR.

 

That's not my experience at all.

[Lucas]

It goes against everything that is known about Autism to say that a person can be 'no longer Autistic'. I don't know how people can say their children were 'normal' before, worse after, THERFORE they KNOW they were not born Autistic.

 

I never doubt the evidence, just the ridiculous conclusions people will often draw from it. Any doctor can examine me and be fooled into believing a great many things makes my Autism worse. The same way I can look at any NT and be led to believe that those same things make their Neurotypicality worse.

 

'Autistic Encephalitus' patently does not exist and Gt Ormand Street should be subject to an investigation now. There have only ever been five published papers mentioning it, one was by Dr Wakefield, the other four were debunking parts of the first. As far as medical science understands there is no such thing, so why has a respected childrens hospital done this? It's wrong.

 

I would never argue that a parent should be forced to give their child a jab, but spreading lies about Autism has and still does harm Autistic people. I consider those who do it to not care about Autistic people as the evidence of harm in this instance is far better documented than the fear-mongering notions of quacks.

[call me jaded]

Autistic symptoms following herpes encephalitis.

 

Ghaziuddin M, Al-Khouri I, Ghaziuddin N.

 

Division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor 48109-0390, USA. mghaziud@umich.edu

 

Autism is a childhood onset neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by reciprocal social deficits, communication impairment, and rigid ritualistic interests, with the onset almost always before three years of age. Although the etiology of the disorder is strongly influenced by genes, environmental factors are also important. In this context, several reports have described its association with known medical conditions, including infections affecting the central nervous system. In this report, we describe an 11-year-old Asian youngster who developed the symptoms of autism following an episode of herpes encephalitis. In contrast to previous similar reports, imaging studies suggested a predominant involvement of the frontal lobes. At follow-up after three years, he continued to show the core deficits of autism. This case further supports the role of environmental factors, such as infections, in the etiology of autism, and suggests that in a minority of cases, autistic symptoms can develop in later childhood.

 

Publication Types:

Case Reports

 

PMID: 12369775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Suze]

Gosh don,t know where I stand on this, Ive always held the view that certain children are more vulnerable to vaccines of this nature.If a parent believes quite passionately from their own experience that mmr brought on the onset of autism or worsened their childs autism , it can,t really be questioned as none of us are privvy to their experience and to the best of my knowledge there is no proof either way to disprove or approve either theory. .......................I know what I mean if none of that made sense

[ceecee]

Thank you for that information Jaded very interesting I shall be showing it to my husband tonight.Despite what lucas is saying my daughter did have autistic encephalitus of the brain.Many people with encephalitus and there are many types of encephalitus(inflamation of the brain)do not recover from it Therefore has she not recovered from it she would have been autistic and displayed the same symptoms as any other autistic child.Her autistic enceohalitus was brought on by the mmr from the time period of when she started showing autistic symptoms we were told it was the measels part of the vaccination that caused the encephalitus.One of the side effect of measels is encephalitus.

 

Incidentally there is a man down my father in laws road who was fine went on holiday and picked up something and ended up having encephalitus.This was about five years ago an d he struggles to know what day of the week it is and shows no sign of recovering.I think autistic encephalitus is very rare but then having read Jaded posting perhaps it is not.

 

When my daughter was in gt ormond street there was a ten year old girl there who had caught a virus that had attacked her brain leaving her with encephalitus(not autistic encephalitus) and she could not speak at all

 

So in conclusion autistic encephalitus can and does exsist.The infection came out of her brain and she went back to normal.She had a brain infection that brough on autism caused by the mmr.I know because I was there.

[oracle]

I caught the common cold sore virus while I was pregnat with Matthew. Having never had this virus before I was really quite ill for several weeks with it. I have often wondered if it played its part in Matthews autism? I will never know and I often wonder if these links will ever be proven, but if you have lived through the experience of seeing a child regress within day of a vacination then you can not fail to make the association. Even my GP who is not longer with us agreed that in David's case the effect of the vaccine was visible to all. He was a very brave man to say this and I shall respect him for ever for being brave enough to voice his opinion. Sadly no one listend to him or believed him. It was not until I met up with Paul Shattock that I knew that I was correct.

 

Carole

[Noetic]

that companies peddling "cures" tend to claim that ALL cases of autism are caused by the MMR.

 

That's not my experience at all.

I just know that various pro-Chelation peddlers at the Awares conference have been spamming parents' threads with messages stating that 'Autism is caused by the MMR'. I have also encountered similar views on parenting fora, where it was at the very least implied that the vast majority of autism was caused by the MMR.

 

Also Dr. Wakefield, one of the prominent MMR opponents, was developing his own alternative vaccine ([irony]no self interest at all[/irony]) at the time of conducting and publishing his small studies 'proving' that the MMR caused autism (at the time, media and proponents of this theory did not trouble themselves with emphasising that it wasn't *all* of autism they were talking about...).

[Noetic]

Autistic symptoms following herpes encephalitis.

 

Ghaziuddin M, Al-Khouri I, Ghaziuddin N.

 

Division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor 48109-0390, USA. mghaziud@umich.edu

 

Autism is a childhood onset neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by reciprocal social deficits, communication impairment, and rigid ritualistic interests, with the onset almost always before three years of age. Although the etiology of the disorder is strongly influenced by genes, environmental factors are also important. In this context, several reports have described its association with known medical conditions, including infections affecting the central nervous system. In this report, we describe an 11-year-old Asian youngster who developed the symptoms of autism following an episode of herpes encephalitis. In contrast to previous similar reports, imaging studies suggested a predominant involvement of the frontal lobes. At follow-up after three years, he continued to show the core deficits of autism. This case further supports the role of environmental factors, such as infections, in the etiology of autism, and suggests that in a minority of cases, autistic symptoms can develop in later childhood.

 

Publication Types:

Case Reports

 

PMID: 12369775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I have also heard and read of several cases where at least autistic symptoms developed following cases of encephalitis, in particular 'Encephalitis Lethargica' (as portrayed in Awakenings).

 

One young German autistic female author has documented her experiences in several books, although in her case it seems autistic traits already ran in the family. Some other autistic authors (I know one in particular was in 'Women from another planet') also had cases of encephalitis.

 

While these cases are only a small proportion of all autistics, it would be silly to dismiss the link altogether.

[ceecee]

Exactly Noetic.Whilst it might only be a small preportion of autistics who had autistc encephalitus.It can and does exsist.What I have never heard of is someone recovering completely.Has anyone ever heard of anyone recovering?We are so lucky and every day I count my blessings.

[Noetic]

Exactly Noetic.Whilst it might only be a small preportion of autistics who had autistc encephalitus.It can and does exsist.What I have never heard of is someone recovering completely.Has anyone ever heard of anyone recovering?We are so lucky and every day I count my blessings.

How long did she have those symptoms for? I do not think it is generally considered a sound diagnosis of autism if the symtpoms were just temporary (i.e. weeks, months).

[nikrix]

My daughter started to have seizures at 8 months old,she had 2 at this time not temperture related. After the 10 months MMR jab she began to have them again and was diagnosed with epilesy.

 

She was also a distant child but we didnt know at the time if it was the epilesy or medication. We later released it was related to the ASD.

 

I beleave that the MMR was a trigger.

 

My son who is now 4 start having seizures at about the same age as my daughter, I have not had him immunized because of what happen to my daughter. He had no further siezures. He does seem to have some of her ways but nothing major.

 

nikrix x

[call me jaded]

I just know that various pro-Chelation peddlers at the Awares conference have been spamming parents' threads with messages stating that 'Autism is caused by the MMR'.

 

I haven't seen that. What pro-chelation advocates normally say is that some children are not autistic at all but are mercury poisoned. The MMR has never contained mercury, but several other childhood vaccines have.

 

FWIW I don't think there is one single cause, but what is extremely common is poor immune system function and serious metabolic problems (this latter only just getting the research it deserves).

[ceecee]

Noetic

My daughter had three months of getting worst and worst i.e. displaying more and more symptoms of autism.At one point I had a list of thirty different things she was doing which she had never done in the four years of her llife.

Then in month four the symptons began to gradually disappear.In month six she was almost back to normal.By the time she started school in september, probably before that she was back to normal.She had the vaccination 2nd January.

[Lucas]

It should be noted at this point that Bruno Bettlehiem's 'proof' that Autism was caused by refridgerater mothers was the temporary symptoms of Jewish people in Nazi death camps, the Autistic Encephalitus quackery follows the same means of comparison and still people don't seem to see the ethical issue.

 

Despite what you say about what I say(dismissing it as merely 'what lucas says'), there is no such thing as Autistic Encephalitus.

 

Blindess produces Autistic symptoms, lets say blindness causes Autism. Torture produces Autistic symptoms, lets say torture causes Autism. Rett's Syndrome produces Autistic symptoms, lets say Retts causes Autism.

[Guest hallyscomet]

Hi,

 

Thanks for all your replies.

 

One thing that was suggested to me when this was heard on another forum, was to consider putting my son on a Gluten & Casein free diet, and see my sons doctor for ways to boost his immune system.

 

A lot of people are sceptical about Chelation therapy as a child died having it. Also it was advised that some children cannot cope with the metal in injections. Mercury and other metals in the injections are not excreted by children with Autism, thus causing all sorts of problems with their health. A way to prove this is to get a hair sample from a normal child and it will come back with metal in the test, so metals are excreted by the body.

 

In a child with Autism there sample will come back nil, meaning none of the metals are excreted.

 

So I was also suggested to use Epson salts and Clay baths to help remove the metals from my sons system.

 

have any of you done any of these with success

 

Regards

Hailey

[alibaly]

MY perfectly healthy 13 year old NT daughter developed epliepsy, IBS and what appeared to be lupus/cfs/arthritis within a week of having a Ruebella and Hibs vaccine. She is now 25 and its only within the last year that her health has been what could be classed as being near to A1, she is off epilepsy meds and has been fit free for 5/6 years now. However she still has a dodgy tummy at times and dare not eat red meat, if she eats meat she will be bed ridden for two days with swollen joints.

 

3 months ago my daughter became a mother , we are taking no chances with vaccines, we'll pick and choose the ones the baby has and will only give them when she is older, one at a time with plenty of time between each one.

Edited November 3, 2005 by alibaly

[Lucas]

One of the mods appears to have edited my last post without permission. Thanks.

[ceecee]

Lucas

Maybe they fear you might offend someone.If my daughter didn't have autistic encephalitus because it doesn't exsist then surely she would still be autistic to this day and she isn't.There is nothing wrong with her.If she didn't have autistic encephalitus then what did she have?

 

Have you got any children?Have you ever watched a child who was normal for four years regress after a vaccination?

[call me jaded]

hallyscomet

 

We do GFCF, boost immune systems by eating anti-oxidant foods, had the hair test done and (dare I say it) chelate. We use such small doses and such huge gaps between rounds for chelation (Andy Cutler's protocol) it's difficult to say whether we see benefits. GFCF is very beneficial to my son.

[Lucas]

Maybe they fear you might offend someone.If my daughter didn't have autistic encephalitus because it doesn't exsist then surely she would still be autistic to this day and she isn't.There is nothing wrong with her.If she didn't have autistic encephalitus then what did she have?

 

I read offensive things about me everywhere I go, including here, I bite my tongue. If your daughter did not have Autistic Encephalitus because it doesn't exist, then she was never Autistic. You say there is nothing wrong with her, I say that after meeting possibly hundreds of Autistics of greatly varying degrees of ability, I have never found anything to be wrong with them because of Autism yet it's not hard to see they are Autistic. I have never met a 'normal' child, I've met Autistics, NTs and others, but never a 'normal' child conforming to some Aryan ideal of what a child should be.

 

You don't appear to be listening, that isn't a suprise, I already said that I myself 'regressed' after a recent MMR booster. But I know enough to interprete this in context. I've seen many regressions in others for many reasons, all preventable yet the common factor in each of them is that people go out of their way to not criticise the parent, regardless of the evidence saying it's just.

 

I don't know enough about your daughter to know if she is Autistic. But I've seen enough Autism to know that there is no such thing as a person with Autism, only Autistic people who could not be the same souls if they were not Autistic.

 

Vaccines DO harm and people DO have a vulnerability to their worse side effects. Why the name of Autism has been conveniently invoked is obvious to any Autistic who has had to fight for their own right to be Autistic without a parent fighting for their right to not be Autistic, that this was done purely to suspend ethics. Ethics and Autism do not mix very well for the purpose of eradicating Autistics, so they must be side-stepped. The anti-vaccine lobby has been confounded by ethical dilemmas that it never wanted to address, Autism provides the means to argue that it is against our rights to be treated ethically as the 'Autism' community has made great progress already in making this public policy. The anti-vaccine lobby knows it would take decades to make the same arguement for suspending ethics, so it instead extends the Autism bogeyman to vaccine-damage, cutting out that time overnight.

[ceecee]

Lucas

You have your opinion and I have mine, so let's leave it there.You may or may not be interested to know I have a brother just like you.When you are posting it is as though I am debating something with my brother.I knowfrom my experience with him that this debate could go on forever.My brother has aspergers.Anyway I know what I saw with my own eyes and I also know my daughter does not have autism aspergers or is on the spectrum in any way.Believe me I would know if she was.I know the conditions inside out and backwoods like lots of us in here.