Sally44

Although you are getting the behaviour at home, it sounds like at school not only does he not misbehave, but he also doesn't know how to ask for help etc. And when he does try to show then that he is getting angry because he can't do his work (eg. clench his fists and make a face), he is being punished for it. My son was also like this in school. And back then he wasn't supported and just used to sit doing very little work, or fidgetting or trying to get up from his chair etc. I would recommend that you speak with the Parent Partnership and the NAS about this and about how to word a letter that you send into school. You seem to have the support of all the services supporting your son. I would send a letter to the effect that he is extremely unhappy and is showing violent/disruptuve behaviour at school that is around school and school work. I would request that he is assessed by the SALT for his expressive and receptive speech (receptive = what he understands eg. verbal instructions in class). Also his auditory memory, auditory processing and working memory. If he has problems in any of those areas he is not going to be able to follow verbal class instructions and know what he should be doing. Can he read? If he can read competently he could have some simple written worksheets to back up what he is supposed to be doing. He needs the TA to frequently check his understanding and may need visual timetables or visual instructions to help him work through his work. The SALT is also responsible for social communication such as asking for either help or timeout. So she should provide the school with a 'help' card and she should instruct both school and home in how to teach him to use this card. When he has learnt that, he also needs to learn how to use a time out card. And school should also have a quiet area that he can use to go to when he needs to get a way for a while. The Educational Psychologist is the person who is responsible for emotional recognition and response. She should be putting together a programme for home and school and how to recognise his emotional state, (and emotions in others). And how to respond depending on his emotional state. This is really long term work because you want him to begin to understand that when he is upset/angry etc he needs to 'tell someone' 'what is making him feel like that'. He is already trying to show them that by clenching his fists and making a face - but they are punishing him for that!! What they should be doing is saying to him 'XXX I can see that you are angry. Lets go to the quiet area'. After 5-10 minutes they can ask him 'what made you angry', and then they can sort it out. These difficulties are typical of his diagnosis. Infact that is why he has got a diagnosis, because he has difficulties in these areas. That needs to be recognised and supported. Not ignored or punished. Blanket polices - what can I say. Some LEAs say they don't do Statements for Special Schools, because special schools already have the expertise needed and they only do Statements for children intending to remain mainstream. Other LEAs say they don't do Statements for children who intend to remain mainstream or remain with their existing school. The truth is, they can say what they like, but it doesn't mean it is true or even legal. Speak with the NAS about that. You have a right to apply for a Statement wherever your child is now or is intending to go. What you need regardless of that is 'evidence' of need and written recommendations to meet that level of need. Do you think his current school is ever able to understand and meet his needs? What other schooling options are there within your area. Go and visit those schools to get a feeling of what they do and what the pupil profile is. Some LEAs have schools which are a mixture of mainstream and children with ASDs (with around 5 children with ASDs per class). Other LEAs have ASD only schools for children who have typical cognitive ability. And remember academic achievement is not always a reflection of cognitive ability. My son scores high average cognitive ability. His ability in different areas ranges from a percentile of 93 in some areas he is good at to a percentile of 2 in understanding verbal instructions and to <1 in areas such as motor planning. That was part of my evidence that his school could not meet his needs. Children with ASDs typicall have this 'spiky profile' where they are quite good at some things, but other areas (usually associated with understanding/processing language and social interaction) are usually very poor.

Don't worry, I put a similar sentence in my original request. Infact, I didn't know that the LEA send you a detailed form that you can fill out, so I sent in a 26 page letter/report when I initially asked for the LEA to carry out a Statutory Assessment. I had heard so many stories of SA's being turned down that I put in so much evidence at the first stage that it would have been impossible for them to refuse an SA. The AAT teased me that it was the longest request for an SA she had ever seen!! And it is useful to look through all old paperwork, reports, letters etc. And always put all requests and clarifications of verbal/telephone conversations in writing. On going through old reports, you are looking for identified needs and how they have (or haven't) been met. You are looking for signs of progress, and signs of lack of progress or regression. In my sons papers the private EP pointed out that a previous EP had recommended the school used Precision Teaching and sent details of that into school. This had never been done by the school or followed up by the EP. Precision Teaching is an ongoing daily assessment tool used to help children with suspected Dyslexia learn, and also to get a bench mark of how much they can learn, and how much repetition they need to retain that information. I didn't even know what Precison Teaching was then. The form you will be sent by the LEA is very indepth and asks for information in all kinds of areas from birth to present date. Don't feel restricted by the space available on the form. The Parent Partnership advises parents to type it all out separately to give yourself the space they need and to use the form to refer to the letter. Start to write down all the things you think he struggles with so that you can go into them in depth rather than just using his diagnosis as an umbrella term. Every child with an ASD is different. And also remember that you are not just listing problems relevant to reading/writing. You also incorporate social skills, life skills, awareness of danger, predicting outcomes, behavioural problems, self esteem, self awareness.

I have my own personal theory along the above lines mentioned. But I think that 'autistic spectrum disorders' may turn out to develop over generations ie. there is a basic genetic weakness which leads the first generation to have a fairly low key auto immune response, that is exaggerated in the next generation and then maybe the third or fourth generation may have a child on the spectrum. In my family we have milk intolerance, asthma, diabetes, hay fever, chromosone abnormalities, developmental delay. In the wider family we also have RA, mental illness etc. I have a diagnosis of Fibromyalgia, and I often find at various parent meetings or support groups that alot of the parents/families have other health conditions in the family seeming to indicate a pre-disposition or weakness towards certain disorders or syndromes. I just wish someone would come up with some answers. There are days when everything is good and going well and I can begin to see a bright future. Then on another day everything single thing is wrong whether it is due to autism or sensory stuff, or language or social interaction and it is just so hard for him because he is so self aware and he recognises he is different.

I know the feeling. I was given a diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder and sensory integration disorder and given a leaflet about the Parent Partnership as I left the Developmental Paediatrician's office. That was just over 2 years ago, and it took three years in total (from when I first raised concerns) to get a diagnosis. I would recommend you get in touch with your local Parent Partnership (through your local council), and also the NAS and find out about any courses they are running about the special educational needs process. What stage is your son at now? Is he on School Action, School Action Plus etc. Although he has a diagnosis of Aspergers, and therefore it appears to be automatically assumed that academically he will be okay, you still can push for his needs to be met. You have to start by always putting every request in writing and always getting written responses. You say he has problems with co-ordination and social interaction. Has he been assessed by a Speech Therapist. It is the SALT that is responsible for social interaction and play skills - it took me 3 years to find that out! School need to be setting IEP or MEP targets around his needs. Education is not just reading and writing. So, if he has difficulties with social interaction the school should ask the SALT to come and assess him to see what he can/cannot do. That should involve identifying targets on his MEP and putting together programmes and supports to meet those targets. The school can also use systems/supports such as Circle of Friends, Buddying, Social Skills groups etc. You can also look into an ongoing assessment process called SCERTS which the SALT should be aware of, and which is a very good way of monitoring your child's particular social strengths and weaknesses. Do you feel that his present school are willing and able to meet his needs? Through dedicated funding they are obliged to support him in his areas of difficulty. That might include structure during breaktimes or access to dinnertime clubs. If they are being resistant, look around your area for other schools that have more Aspergers pupils, and where they have the abovementioned systems already in place. Difficulties with co-ordination need to be assessed by an Occupational Therapist. Ask for a referal. It may take up to 2 years to see one. Again, some schools with experience of children with Aspergers/ADSs have physical movement programmes already in place. Although a child with Aspergers may not typically get a Statement, that does not mean it is impossible. You have to have evidence of complex needs. So you need to tease out all his difficulties and not just lump them under the umbrella of Aspergers. For example you have already mentioned Aspergers and co-ordination problems. Is that dyspraxia, or associated with sensory issues. Poor physical co-ordination can sometimes be mirrored with poor mental co-ordination eg. planning, sequencing, organising etc. What is his language and communication like. Is his expressive speech okay, but he struggles with receptive speech. Does he take language literally. Google Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder to see if that is relevant. Does he have language processing delays, or problems with auditory memory etc. There are a whole range of difficulties associated with Aspergers or ADSs that your son may have as you begin to delve a bit deeper into how it affects him. The longer the list of 'needs' the more chance you have of the LEA agreeing to a Statutory Assessment. I'm afraid that a diagnosis is not the end of the struggle, but is usually the beginning. But you will achieve results if you get advice from the NAS, and start a methodical approach to meeting his needs. You can also involve Social Services for a carers assessment, and for them to allocate a social worker if necessary or for them to provide sitters so that you can go out, or for someone to accompany him as he gets older to the cinema for example. Join a local support group so that you meet other families and children in the same situation. They will have alot of help and advice relevant to your area. After a couple of years of banging my head against a wall, I did cough up the money, get independent reports and a solicitor and went to an Educational Tribunal and won everything we were asking for. It wasn't cheap. But there is alot you can do before you even consider that stage. And whether it goes well or not, that is still evidence that you can use. Make sure that MEP targets are SMART so that you can see if he is making progress or not. And it is expected that a pupil will make average progress in all areas over an academic year. If he isn't achieving targets, or losing skills etc then that is evidence that the school needs to get some outside professional advice. The reason that parents push to try to get a Statement is because it is a legal document and everything it contains has to be done by the LEA. However most Statements are not worth the paper they are written on (if that makes you feel better!), because most have not been completed according to the Code of Practice which states they should specify (in terms of hours of support), and quantify in terms of staffing (ie. which professional does what and how often and when will they review progress). So just start getting clued up, start asking the school how they will support his needs. Contribute towards MEP targets. Always send letters etc. Sometimes it is very simple things that can make a big difference. My son also struggles with social interaction, although he does want to interact. One thing they are working on at the moment is on him learning the names of the children and adults in his class. He really struggles with this. Usually he addresses people by saying 'excluse me' or 'I want to tell you something'. But when you are running around the playground you need to be able to shout the child's name to get their attention, you can't run behind them shouting 'excuse me'. So this very basic skill has had a huge impact on his success with social interaction with the other children in his class. So this was a target in his Social Skills Group, and also on his MEP and the SALT put together a programme for the TA to work on daily in school in the classroom and in the playground. As private reports are expensive there are other ways to obtain evidence of need. For example you can find a private play therapist and they can do some work with him over the next 6 months and you can ask them to write a short report about his difficulties with social interaction. There are Play Therapists that work with children with ASDs, and you do want one that has specific knowledge in this area. Although that will cost money, it could be worth it to get you some evidence that the SALT needs to be doing more to help this area of need - if you are finding that they are doing nothing. But don't be afraid to write to the SALT department and ask them why you son has not been assessed for his social interaction and play skills as difficulties in this area are part of his medical diagnosis of Aspergers. Sometimes that is all it takes for something to happen. You can also use clubs such as a trampoline club to see if that helps to improve or helps to identify co-ordination difficulties. I found that my son found it difficult to process the verbal instructions into the physical movements and to sequence them in the right order. That difficulty is not just relevant to trampoline classes. That same difficulty will show itself in a classroom and learning environment.

It is recognised and understood in professional circles that children with ASDs can have totally different behaviour at home opposed to school. And, if that behaviour is coming out at home because of the frustration he has in school then eventhough the behaviour is not showing itself in their environment, it is that environment that is responsible for the majority of it. As he has these behaviours (whether in or out of school), suspected tourettes, suspected sensory integration disorder etc. I think you would have a case for asking for a Statutory Assessment towards a Statement. Then the school is legally required to provide the supports outlined in the Statement. Do you think that is a possibility, especially as everyone seems to be supporting you in trying to get the supports he needs in school?

Private EPs cannot say what they like. LEAs can make any comment about whoever does reports. The aim is to try to stop you getting them. A private report is just as valid as a LEA or NHS report. The LEA Salt completely agreed with the 52 page private report. Infact she made additions to it. And she was able to do that because private or LEA SALTs use the same assessment material. So once we had our assessment results through our private SALT, the LEA has to conduct other assessments and get totally different results to ours. There is no way that that is going to happen. We are not talking about quacks here, we are talking about professionals who are working independently now, but whom have worked for the LEA and NHS as part of their development. Our LEA also tells parents not to use ISPEA because they are unqualified and unprofessional and will not be recognised by the Panel at Tribunal - that is incorrect and is an attempt to undermine parents rights to get an accurate picture of their child's difficulties. If anyone from the LEA says something like that to you ask them to put it in writing. Bet you never get the letter. If you ask for a Statutory Assessment the LEA EP has to do a report - as far as I know. So it is worth waiting to see what they come up with first. Different LEAs do have different policies regarding Statutory Assessments. I am not sure what the legal position is. For example some LEAs will not agree to a Statutory Assessment if the child is going to remain in a mainstream school. My EP would not agree to a SA if I had attempted to keep my son in the school he was previously at. Some LEAs will not agree to a SA on a diagnosis of Aspergers (or even autistic spectrum disorder) alone. The child has to have complex needs - which you need written evidence of through the LEA and NHS professionals. That is the difficult evidence to obtain, especially if SALT, EP, AAT etc are not seeing your child at all, or there has been a long gap (typically 2+ years since School Action Plus, and their advice at that time is now completely out of date). But IEPs are also evidence of progress or lack of progress. If the school is not required to provide a TA from year 3, and the school is saying that your son needs one. Then that is very important evidence to get in writing, as this indicates that he needs a Statement to get the TA support he needs. I didn't realise that dedicated funding altered between LEAs. I know our LEA also has an additional system for extra support called Top Up Hours. The bizarre support levels I mentioned were at this stage, not a Statemented child. I don't understand how a child can need to be supported in the moring (or afternoon), and gets that because the dedicated funding is there. But for the remainder of the day (when they still need that same level of support), they don't get any. I have seen this many times with children in school. To Karen: In our LEA an Enhanced Resource class is still mainstream. What it means is that it has a higher level of children on school action plus and with Statements in some classes. Because of that there is a higher ratio of staff to children, typically 1 teacher and 2.5 TAs in some classes. Some children in those classes will mostly do small group work within this class. During whole class teaching those children are usually taken out for their individual work programmes or therapies. But breaktimes and dinnertimes and with the rest of the class/school. It is like a classroom in Bens school where there are around 5+ children having the same level of supports as your son is receiving. Also all the teachers and TAs have regular training on ASDs. This school also has a separate Autism Unit. My son doesn't use this unit at all. There isn't much (if any) cross over between the unit and the school because the children in the unit are too severe from a social interaction point of view. But the staff in the unit are highly skilled and their experience is also used for advice in the mainstream school. So Enhanced Resource is just a name for extra support in mainstream. But the LEA keep it to a ratio eg. no more than 5 children per class, so there are limited places. I presume this concentration of ASD children in a mainstream provision was provided simply because so many parents wanted that. Ie. a mainstream environment, but with more ASD children throughout the school (in the high and low ability classes) and more expertise in the staff. Although some areas may just have mainstream or special needs school, that LEA is required to meet the child's need by providing an appropriate educational environment and an appropriate peer group. But I think the LEA are only legally required to provide that through a Statement and what it contains. So prior to a Statement you are gathering evidence that the current school, or support within the school, is not meeting your child's needs. In our area a child going to a special needs school has to be Statemented anyway. I think the fact the school has said they don't think your son will cope in Junior School, and that they don't typically provide a TA in year 3 should be put in writing to you. Regarding SATs, have school even bought that up with you? If the school thinks he needs access to a TA, how do they think he is going to do SATs independently? If he does poorly, or cannot do them at all, (or has a meltdown because it is a different routine on that day), that is evidence (if the school tell you when he gets upset). To Connieruff: From one of the earlier posts, I am a bit concerned about your son being laughed at by other children. That isn't on. If there is so little understanding within the school, and the teaching staff are not doing anything to address that, then your child is going to experience being made fun of and he may not have the social skills to deal with that, or it may show itself in other bad behaviour which they might attempt to punish him for.

As Karen has said the LEA will use what the school says against them. They also turned it back onto the school and how they should be supporting my son. But you can still produce evidence to prove that that school is never going to be able to meet his needs - if that is the case. And it does depend on the relationship you have with the school and the professionals involved with your son. And the fact that you have to put everything down in writing. Even if everyone refuses to reply to your letters that is still very damning evidence at a tribunal. If they are meeting his needs or are able to meet them then they should be willing and able to put that in writing. The school did confirm that they couldn't meet my sons needs because they listed all the input they had received from the EP and the Autism Outreach Teacher since school first raised their concerns about my son (which was none from the EP (after the initial assessment at the level of School Action Plus) , and less than 2 days in a year from the AAT). That in no way could train up a mainstream school to meet his needs. The EP was not used because of the quota system ie. the school had used their allocated EP time on other more disruptive children). The AAT had over 200 mainstream children on her books and she works alone. The SALT had not been into school for nearly a year and would speak with the TA over the phone to see if my son had reached his SALT targets. (TAs are not qualified to make clinical decisions about reaching targets). The inclusion officer also said at a meeting (with the parent partnership present), that my request for a dedicated teaching assistant if he remained in his current school 'simply would not happen'. So school were saying they couldn't meet his needs, and the LEA, EP and AAT were refusing the level of input the school said they needed to train up and meet his needs. The EP and AAT reports towards the Statutory Assessment talked about a dedicated teaching environment (autism unit), and the LEA completely disregarded that. The Autism Unit had severely autistic children, which my son isn't. He could cope mainstream, if supported to the same level he would receive in the autism unit. That is eventually what we got. It is all about evidence of what your child can and cannot do. As my son is verbal and does want to interact and play - but doesn't know how to - an autism unit of children incapable of social interaction was not a relevant peer group. So you do need to get a picture of exactly what your son needs in terms of supports, structures etc and who should provide that, how often etc and whether the mainstream school is ever going to be able to provide that. Through dedicated funding there is no reason why the school cannot provide a teaching assistant for year 3. Is your son's level of need such that it must be a dedicated one (ie. would different TAs cause him extra anxiety, make it harder to learn, cause behavioural probelms etc)? Would the TA or dedicated TA need to have experience and expertise in Aspergers? Dedicated funding only goes up to 15 hours per week per child. And that doesn't have to be one to one, it is usually small group work. Would small group work be enough? What about the rest of the time in school? Does he need support during all lessons, some lessons, what about on the playground and during dinnertime etc. If his needs are such that he always has to be working in small group work and also needs some one to one support and the regular use of his workstation then that is not a mainstream classroom environment (although through a statement you could get that level of support in a mainstream school). That is more an Enhanced Resource classroom environment - so that maybe the placement you aim for. Some children do have some bizarre supports that are full on during the morning, but with nothing in the afternoon! How does that work? How can a child that needs such a high level of support, suddenly be able to cope in the afternoon all by themselves?

Firstly it sounds like the school have no idea about what a work station is for and how it should be used. It is not a place to go for punishment! And why shouldn't a child be able to request to use it - or request some other place if they need it. My son had access to a pup tent in infant school. In year 2 that disappeared and nothing replaced it. So when he got really angry and upset he was made to sit in the class with all the other children looking at him. But, as awful as all this stuff is, it is all evidence. Put it down in writing. Always send letters into school and send letters after verbal conversations ie. 'further to our conversation yesterday you showed me where my son's work station had moved to. I believe that the current placement of the workstation (where all the children can look at him) will increase his anxiety in class. Can you please relocate the work station. You also confirmed that my son cannot request to sit there and that he is sent to his workstation when he is disruptive. The work station is not a place to be sent when a child is being disruptive. It is supposed to be a place with less visual distractions where the child can have a visual timetable or other visual work schedules to help the child complete their work independently. Can you please speak with the Autism Advisory Teacher about this, so that she can clarify how school should be using this support'. Speak with your local parent partnership about who the LEA would request to go in and observe your son and make reports towards a Statement? The LEA will have to take on board anything a private EP report says. Eventhough they are private, they have a code of practice and they have to give a truthful account of the child's abilities and needs. It is just as easy (and more truthful) that LEA and NHS staff recommend support within the levels they have and may be totally unrelated to the need of the child. If you do get an independent EP you need to make sure they are not employed by the LEA or NHS (as it will affect their report), and that they have experience of attending Educational Tribunals as expert witnesses. This will mean that they know exactly how tribunals work and what evidence tribunals are looking for. The NAS also has a tribunal service that you can use to support you if you go through this process. If it does come to that, you have nothing to lose by going. But make sure you use the supports that are out there to get the Statement as tight as you can and worded correctly. Again the Tribunal Service at the NAS can help with that. Also, as the school has said that your son will not cope in year 3 as there are no TAs in that year, ask them to put that in writing to you. Or again send in a letter stating that further to our conversation on XXXX you informed me that you are concerned about my son moving to year 3 as he presently as xxx hours one to one support in year 2, and you explained to me that in year 3 there are no TAs at all and that it is your opinion that XXX will not cope in that classroom environment.'

That is exactly what my son says 'what is wrong with my brain, why can't I control it, why can't I stop it'. Then he might hit himself in the face or scratch at his face (if it has been a particularly bad one). Or just as it begins he might say 'my brain is going crazy now'. I did go to a seminar by the NAS and the speaker was explaining how they really don't have the same level of control of emotions as we have. Apparently brain scans have been taken during emotional states and larger areas of the brain are lit up than in typical children/adults. This was explained to us lay people as being the difference between typical people having the equivalent of a shower curtain that can contain the emotion (which is a chemical response) and make it easier to get the situation under control. In those with ASDs there is no shower curtain, so the emotions are just flooding out everywhere in the brain. That means it is harder to control and harder to recover from. And that does appear to be how it is. I am not saying the behaviour is excusable because swearing or getting violent can never be acceptable behaviour. But I try with my son to explain to him that unfortunately that is how it makes him feel, and that what he has to do is go to his bedroom to calm down. So when he does start I tell him 'you need to go to your room to calm down'. I don't send him there as a punishment. I use the bedroom as a timeout place where he can calm down. Of course he might be being abusive all the way up the stairs. But I am hoping that as he gets older that he does start to take this on board for himself. But there are some children that have much greater difficulties with this than my son does. And we haven't hit puberty yet. But, as mums, I think we should listen to our children and how they explain to us their experience. I think they are really telling us how it is for them. It is the same with sensory issues. A good example is once (when he was much younger) we had to leave the barbers with half a haircut. My son was crying and screaming that the clippers were hurting him, and the barber was getting quite terse and telling him 'I am not hurting you - sit still'. But he was being hurt regardless of what my perception would have been in the same situation. So I just believed him and took him away and never returned there. We found a lady hairdresser who is brilliant. She tells him everything before she does it, and will spray some water on his hand before she sprays it on his head etc. She will let him hold onto his ears. She will stop when he gets over anxious until he is ready to proceed again. This has built some trust between them. He now has no problems going for a haircut.

That maybe true, but if the school is mentioning exclusion, that seems to suggest quite severe problems?? Hard to know without examples. But whether the child is, or isn't - or is a bit of a fruit salad (ie. traits of some disorders but not enough to get a diagnosis of any of them), the school - if they are the ones saying there is a problem - should be contacting outside agencies such as EP or SALT to assess and observe.

Yes, let us know how the meeting goes.

I know that there are mixed opinions about the Parent Partnership. But they can contact them and see what their advice is. I believe there is a set criteria that schools have to go through if they are considering exclusion. And I'm sure part of that is going to be 'what has the school done in calling in outside agencies'. So they need to check that system. Being put on School Action Plus also means the EP has to be called in at that stage to assess. So if their child isn't at that stage yet they should ask for this stage. They also need to check IEPs and make sure that behavioural targets are put on it - that should also involve the school asking the EP for advice on what kind of things to do. As you know, it isn't just about putting into place a structure of predictable outcomes for bad behaviour. It is about looking at what could be causing the behaviour and making adjustments. His behaviour could be down to some language or social skills that he simply does not have at this point. They should write into the school and copy in the EP department with what is happening in school and the fact that the EP has not been contacted by school. Asking for a Stautory Assessment means the EP has to assess. So they could start that process to force the EPs hand. The National Autistic Society should have advice in this area. Although this is more drastic action, they could look at Enhanced Resource schools in their area, as although all their enhanced resource places might be taken, there could be some mainstream places available. They might be able to move their child to that school where at least there would be more experience and expertise of ASDs and hopefully that would mean his needs would be recognised. And of course they can look at getting an independent report. If they go along that route it is important to get an EP who is not employed by the LEA or NHS because those professionals tend to make recommendations up to the level of support they can provide. That isn't always the level of support the child needs. An independent EP is not restricted by her employers policies. They will assess and make recommendations of the level of support the child needs and will advise on various strategies or supports to use in school. Ideally you would want an EP who has experience of attending educational Tribunals as expert witnesses. EPs can also advise on whether a particular school is appropriate for a child. I don't know if independent EPs can diagnose. However, although we are talking about the EP. The professional who deals with 'behaviour and social interaction' is the Speech and Language Therapist. So it might be worth involving them as well. So much of the behaviour can be down to problems with language and social interation problems eg. Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder, concrete/rigid thinking, literal interpretation of language etc. EPs (at least in our area) deal with academic difficulties, emotional response and recognition etc). But they definately need to start writing some letters and getting everything in paper because if he is excluded, or they ask for a SA etc they need to have all this as written evidence and not just verbal exchanges. So always send in letters to school, and if someone phones them, they need to write a letter eg. "further to our telephone conversation about XXX, I understand that you are going to XXX and I have to XXX. Please reply if I have misunderstood."

My son would also live in the house all the time if allowed. When he was younger I found that Irlen glasses and a pair of DIY ear defenders got him out the house, and he would manage for the duration of the trip. Previously he would ask to return home after about 15 mins. Now he is 8 I still use the Irlen lenses and I take the ear defenders just incase we need them. If we went to the cinema he would want to wear them. I've also got him involved in a couple of clubs that he likes. One is foil fencing (he looks so cute all dressed up and ready to fight!). And the other club is for children with ASDs, their siblings and friends. This is in a school gym and has all the gym equpment, trampoline and bouncy castle out. He really likes it there. He has also improved since moving school, and having alot more input from the SALT with social interaction. For example they send him with a message everyday to give to someone. It might be something simple like, go to the school office and ask Mrs XXXX what day it is. He is also learning the names of the children in his class (previously he never remembered or used names). And of course play dates at other childrens houses. He doesn't do alot of stuff. He only goes out of the house (apart from school), once or twice a week. But I keep that up because otherwise we would become housebound.

Maybe it is something to do with the transitions as well. I do agree with the food thing though, little well balanced snacks often stop the highs and lows of blood sugar dips. But my son can have good days, and then bad days when everything I ask him to do just causes the biggest strop and verbal abuse ever. Or, he tries to be good and not do that by trying to leave the house - he somehow thinks that is better than saying those bad words or doing that bad behaviour. Because afterwards he is so remorseful and upset with himself. But I prefer he does that than escape from the house with a rucksack on his back (that was his final solution!) Now he is 8 I send him upstairs to his room to calm down if he begins to get too verbal. And when he starts to blame me, or the family or anyone else I tell him straight back that he has been wrong or naughty because of X,Y and Z. He doesn't like it, but I tell him how it is. And he does get really upset with himself. He's trying to earn a trip to Alton Towers, and is just hanging on by the skin of his teeth. Yesterday he just walked into a duck pond and was wet up to his waist. I still have no idea why! Then he threw a strop because he thought he'd lost the Alton Towers trip. What drove him to do it?? I'd love to spend a day in his mind. But this holiday we have already had a couple of instances that just make me think i'm going to have to have some kind of camera watching him 24/7. Our neighbours complained yesterday (and we don't get on at all), that 'someone' has been throwing screws out of the bedroom window onto his lawn and they will break his lawnmower. Well, my husband got all defensive and denied any knowledge of anything - only to find DS had been throwing a bucketful of nails out of his bedroom window one by one onto the neighbours lawn all morning! He just does stuff without thinking of the consequences. Infact his behaviour reminds me of how my daughter was aged 3+, when you couldn't leave them for a minute without them being up to something (drawing on walls etc). Well he appears to be at that stage now he is 8.

My son wears Irlen lenses. He didn't need any unusual coloured ones. His are a dark grey colour which is mainly for light sensitivity and depth perception. These glasses have helped with reducing the amount of headaches he was getting. He also lasts longer when he is wearing the glasses before he disengages. Infact, now he is 8, although he does retreat into his own world, you can bring him back by repeating his name. Although he wears the lenses all the time, I found the most benefit with them when we went out of the house. I also had a pair of DIY ear defenders that he wore in conjunction with them. These two things together seemed to reduce the visual and auditory stimulous to such an extent that he was happy to leave the house, and once he had left he could last for the duration of the trip. Previously he would start complaining and insisting to return home after about 15 mins of leaving the house. So they definately reduced overstimulation. My son is also suspected of having dyslexia and dyscalculia. But the lenses don't seem to have helped with that. Prior to the lenses, or when not wearing the lenses my son used to complain of things he could see, or patterns (ie. rainbows on the walls), or stationery objects moving. Now he doesn't mention these visual disturbances any more.

My son is doing a session of Listening With the Whole Body. This was through the NHS OT. I get it for free. How I managed that is because my son is diagnosed with Sensory Integration Disorder, but he is also 'showing signs and symptoms' of Central Auditory Processing Disorder, which is also a medically recognised condition. And although this diagnosis was 'suspected' by the NHS hospital they couldn't diagnose it or provide any therapy for it. So I got the costings of a private clinic in London and went to my GP and asked him to support an application to the PCT to support this therapy. Then suddenly an OT turned up on my doorstep having been trained in the above therapy! So I requested my GP to send me a copy of the correspondence he received from the PCT following his request. It would seem that my argument held some sway, that 'as the local NHS Trust does not have the facilities to either diagnose or treat this medically recognised disorder, that they should support my application to fund this therapy at the XXX clinic in London'. This got the PCT scouting round, and produced an OT who had recently received some training in this area. So my son is the only child in our LEA area receiving this therapy for free (to my knowledge anyway). Is it working?? Well I have noticed some improvements. But I have to be honest and say that that could be down to development that would have happened anyway, or it could be down to the increased level of SALT input he now gets. But I have noticed improvements in the following areas. Easier transitions. Eg. i'll say 'we've got to go/turn off the TV now' and he just does it. Not every time, but 80% better than before. He's holding more conversations. Previously he would ask me something and I would reply and that was it. Now the conversations passes between us 4 or 5 times. He has started singing - he never sang before. Strangely he is showing an interest in ABBA! More joint attention skills. Ie. paying attention to what other people in his environment are doing. Using voice tone to express emotions and recognising voice tone in others. Eg. if I said 'WOW!' he would now ask me 'what is it'. Previously he wouldn't have noticed. Wanting to play more. He is beginning to use some real imagination in play rather than using things he has already seen on TV/DVDs. He is showing some ability to see that something might seem funny to us (eg. someone falling over), but that it isn't funny for the man who falls because it hurts him. He actually said that, which I thought was very good. School have said he is joining in physical games such as football - he used to avoid this like the plague. After he has finished this session I will purchase a DVD player and headphones and get him listening to more music.

But that isn't your fault Karen! Before I had a statement it was my child that couldn't get access to anything because statemented children got their needs met because the school and LEA are legally bound to meet what is in the statement. So when we as parents are told that 'you don't need a diagnosis, or a statement to get the provision your child needs' - unfortunately that isn't true at all. What the LEA actually mean is 'please don't get a statement because then we will have to do what is in your statement as well and we are stretched enough anyway'. However, the LEA clearly points out that alot of the funding is already with the school anyway. If that school has decided to spend that money on something other than SEN then that is the schools choice. And that is partly why I get so frustrated about closure of special schools, because it is much more cost effective to have a greater level of support and professional input in a special school instead of having an inadequate service spread over all mainstream schools. I just found out through the governors at my son's new school, that parents of typical children are trying to move their children out of this Enhanced Resource school because they don't want their children mixed with kids with ASDs. Many parents of typical children don't want inclusion. It is another aspect of NIMBYs. I have an older sister who has moderate learning disabilities. She went to a special school and she learnt to read and write etc. She works and lives independently. I don't have the same confidence that she would have attained that level of independence if she had been born 30 years later and had been included in a mainstream school. I also have another family member with mental health issues. And I have a sister in law that used to work in a hospital for the mentally ill. So the hospital closed, and those with mental illness received 'care in the community'. But actually they didn't receive care in the community it all. They became revolving door patients being sectioned, and then returned into the community again until they became so ill they were sectioned again. So Care in the Community was really just a sound bite slogan that didn't benefit the people it was supposed to support. Some people with mental illness need santuary, not the community. It isn't fair that only clued up parents get the supports for their children. That is probably why alot of us are on these types of forums trying to pass on information. I have a background in law, and also trained to become an OT (but didn't finish the training). I feel there is alot more that can be done for children with ASDs if schools knew about the typical problems these children have, and if parents were listened to. For example, I talked with the SENCO of a secondary school who is pulling her hair out because the school has decided (against her experience and advice) that TAs will no longer be dedicated to any one pupil. So previously the TA stayed with the pupil and got to know them really well and therefore could see any problem areas or stop a meltdown before it blew out of proportion. But the school wanted to be able to move staff as and when needed to save costs. But this has actually increased costs because a different TA in each lesson causes the children to be more anxious and have more meltdowns which results in them having to be removed from the class and they then have to have an adult remain with them for the duration. So this actually involves more staff than was needed before. The system isn't unfair because we fight for our rights. The system is unfair because it has been made that way so that many parents and children will fall by the wayside and their needs will not have to be met - it is just deliberate cost cutting. That is true because the LEA know what the rules are and and what their responsibilities are yet they still lie to parents. One mother with autistic twins was told that only one of her children would get an autism unit place because she couldn't expect the LEA to cover the cost of two places for just one family! Every time a parent goes to tribunal it costs the LEA around �10,000. In my case there was no way the LEA could win, and the Panel at Tribunal warned the LEA about their behaviour and asked the Inclusion Officer if there were no Codes of Practice at the LEA, as if they had one and were familiar with it then we shouldn't all be there. Our LEA has at least 5 children in a private school paying around �42,000 per year. So why don't they actually provide the services - it would cost them less. My son got his ER place because another child lost theirs. That is an awful feeling. But it isn't my fault. There are so many children with a diagnosis of ASD and most of them need ER placements, but LEAs aren't increasing the number of ER schools. Something has got to give. Regarding professionals time included in the Statement. It depends what the childs needs are. If you have evidence that your child needs a certain professionals input that it can be incorporated into the Statement. My childs SALT hours are quantified in terms of one to one therapy and in terms of additional time she needs to spend per term doing other things related to the one to one therapy. This also includes producing a report prior to the Annual Review. He has such severe communication issues that you could not make an informed decision about the Statement at Annual Review without a progress report. This is also the same for the Educational Psychologist. They too have to produce a yearly report prior to Annual Review. The SALT (not the EP), also attends MEPs. This actually saves time and money because everyone is at the meeting together to set the targets. Most Statements don't include that. That maybe because those children don't need it. But if the child does need it it should be included. We parents have to work within the systems that are there. This includes Statements. If an LEA does not think the level of provison being asked for is necessary they have their own professionals who can produce that conclusion as evidence. I haven't got anything that my son doesn't need. No professional, either LEA/NHS or private is going to lie in their report. But I know for sure that LEA and NHS professionals have to make recommendations within their systems budget. That doesn't mean that that level of provision meets the child's needs. And these issues are not just related to education. There are very similar issues relating to health care and postcode depending on whether you get certain treatments or drugs. I know that OTs do more than muscular interventions as I was training to become one. What I was trying to make clear was that finding out the root cause of the problem will identify which professional is responsible for it. And OTs can differ in their opinon. The private report I obtained agreed with your interpretation (and my understanding of what an OT does) that the OT would be responsible for whatever was the root cause of the difficulty my son has with handwriting whether it was muscular, motor planning, memory retrieval, working memory etc. The NHS OT disagreed and said that although OT has something to offer in every aspect of the process of learning, their remit is limited to muscular interventions for handwriting difficulties and sensory integration issues. So the EP has taken responsibility for the handwriting programme, and the motor planning and conceptual problems he has. OT have tried to keep out of it.

That is why Statements are so brilliant because they over ride all these quotas that school have for Ep Psy and SALT etc. That is why the level of need is important and must list every need and the level of support needed must be specified and quantified in terms of hours and staffing provision. That is the level of support the LEA has to provide. To: Wassup - an OT is the professional to work on handwriting difficulties if they are muscular. But some handwriting difficulties are down to motor planning ie. mind concept to motor movements, or are memory retrieval problems ie. retrieving the word and its meaning from memory and putting it in a sentence in their head first before they can even begin to attempt to write it. That type of difficulty might (I don't know) fall under a different professional (eg. SALT or EP). That is why it is very important to identify the root cause of the problem. But I found it impossible to get LEA or NHS staff interested to delve that deep. Because if the difficulty is down to memory retrieval then you need to work on that skill and not the actual hand holding a pencil skill - does that make sense? There are plenty of assessments that can be used to identify what the problem area is, but assessments cost money.

Sorry, sometimes threads get so long that I lose the thread!!

As already stated Statements are not just about academic difficulties. It covers everything and every need should be included in a Statement. I'm getting a bit confused with which child is at what school etc. But it's not hard to confuse me! My understanding is that one of your children has been allocated a place at this new school and will start September and you are wondering whether to start the Statementing process for that child at the old or new school? And if I understand well, from what you have posted this new school is much more able to meet those needs because of the schools long experience of ASD children and through ties with another special school. And you also say that only one IEP has been done so far for this child. Moving school will delay the statement because LEAs want schools to have the time to understand the child's needs (and you need at least two IEPs anyway). As you have only one IEP it sounds like you can't begin the process whilst they are at the old school anyway?? If, on the Statement, you would be asking for the placement that your child is going to go to anyway in September, then it might be better to wait for the move and for the new school to gather enough evidence to start the Statutory Assessment process. Once your child has moved they will need to make some baseline assessments, and sometimes moving school involves different professionals. It is a hard call. But you do need at least two IEPs anyway, and if you are turned down you do have to wait another 6 months - however if you are turned down you can appeal that decision to SENDIST. The new school sounds like they might be more able to identify and meet the needs anyway. But when the Statutory Assessment is requested, it is worth writing to each professional with your concerns so that they all know what they are. This gives them a good opportunity to look at things like dyscalculia as part of the SA process and include it in their report. I don't know about homeschooled children and statements. I would ask the LEA for their policy, and also speak with the NAS about it. But if the older child is moving to a better school and the SA will be starting later on for that child, then maybe it is worth requesting a SA for the child you are considering to homeschool because it seems that situation is more desperate ie. the old school cannot meet the needs and there are no places in the new school you want them to go to.

It is important to bring up the fact that he is very self aware and that it is affecting his self esteem. That makes him vulnerable. And it also has implications for things like depression or other mental illness if he is not supported and is not seeing himself as achieving and being successful in school. So achieveable targets are very important, and so are supports and structures around social skills. And as silly as this sounds, use those words, "self aware, vulnerable, low self esteem, achieveable targets, supports/structures/SALT input for more success around social interaction." These are the WORDS that professionals moving in these circles recognise and act on. Don't forget to mention SCERTS as this is a good system.

As already mentioned you can go to your GP and ask for a referal to a clinical psychologist or other multi disciplinary team that can diagnosis these disorders (not just CAHMS). You can also phone departments (ie. Ed Psych) and just make a nuisance of yourself. You can look at the diagnostic criteria under DSM IV and make notes of where your son does/doesn't meet the criteria from your point of view and send them a copy of this. You can keep a daily diary so that you have lots of evidence of behaviours and characteristics. You can ask any other professionals (including school), who think he has characteristics of AS or ADHD to put that in writing to you. You can also ask for a Statutory Assessment and that will mean that all professionals involved with your son will have to produce reports. You have to demonstrate that your son has complex and severe needs. So falling short of a diagnosis should not exclude him from the SA process, especially if he is showing traits of more than one disorder. You just need to list them all.

You can also contact the special school recommended to you and visit it and speak with the SENCO. They will tell you straight away if any places are available. If all professionals agree that your child cannot cope in mainstream, then when you or the nursery (doesn't matter who starts the process) asks for a Statutory Assessment all professionals involved with the child have to produce a report. The difficulty is getting them to actually state that in their report. You could speak to them by phone to clarify if they will be recommending a special school placement in their report. But the process should have been started about a year ago, at least.

And these are the children that really struggle because they are so self aware. A more severe child isn't aware of their own difficulties. It might be useful to talk with him about the things he finds difficult to do and why. Being different isn't being less of a person. Thinking or perceiving things differently doesn't mean that his experience is untrue or of no worth. My son is self aware. He will ask me (after a meltdown, or an explosion of anger and abusive words), 'what is wrong with my brain, why can't I control myself'. So I try as best I can to explain to him what happens to him at those times. I don't make excuses for his behaviour, but I tell him that that is how it is with him, but that he can learn ways to calm down, and how to go to a quiet place. He is frequently mortified at his own behaviour - which can be very bad for self esteem and mental health. My son has alot of sensory issues, and so do I. So previously I thought he was just an exaggerated version of me. Now I know what is the reason behind the difficulties we both have, it helps me to be able to talk to him about he experiences. Because what happens to them is real. So when touch hurts, or 'something' smells bad, or irritates them enough to cover their ears or makes them gag - then that is how it is regardless of the fact that it doesn't cause the same reaction in the rest of us. It might be worth getting him involved with other children on the spectrum. That might be through parent support groups, activity groups, and when he is able; online groups/forums. And if your son wants to make friends etc that is great. So the onus is completely on the school to support him so that he is successful in that. Sucessess breeds success. Failure breeds low self esteem. Talk with a Speech Therapist about an ongoing assessment system called SCERTS. If everyone is using this system it will highlight the social interaction skills your child can and cannot do. When I moved school for my son I had to separate him from his sibling (who remained at that school). That was a hard decision to accept and to make. But I knew the current place wasn't working and I knew that the timescale for it to begin to work would be years away. So I moved him to a place where I was confident he would cope. And any decision you make is not written in stone. I am sure the LEA would be more than happy for me to give up my son's ER place and move mainstream - if he was able to do that. So try to get the highest level of provison and support you can and for it to be specific through a statement. That becomes your baseline. If that level of specific support works it remains the same. If there isn't enough improvement you notch it up another level at annual review.

Although a child can be very capable, it is looking at the individual difficulties to see how that will affect her in the classroom environment. For example you can have a very bright child, but if they have problems with processing language, or auditory memory etc then whole class teaching is going to be impossible for them to process and they won't learn in that environment. In that situation you would move to small groups work, and for verbal information to be also given out on visual worksheets, for access to a Work Station if needed and for frequent checking by a dedicated TA that she is following what she should be doing. If she has problems with handwriting it is the Occupational Therapist who should assess for this because it isn't necessarily and muscle co-ordination thing. My son has the same difficulties, and his are more down to motor planning. So my son cannot write or draw something he cannot see. He appears not to know whether to start or how to do it. I suspect he has difficulty using this system because of the fact that (a) he has to see what he has to do, and ( he works mainly in 3D as he is brilliant at lego models and can use imagination to make up his own intricate models that are way advanced for his age. So if you think in 3D, how do you transfer that to a 2D picture? So, you need to know the root cause of the drawing or writing difficulty. If the difficulty does fall under the remit of OT, you will have difficulties getting that provision met without a fight because OTs are like gold. But if you are told that it isn't an educational need, or that OTs are employed by the NHS and not the LEA and therefore the LEA are not responsible for the provison then that is incorrect. The best way to get provison is through a Statement, but if your daughter is very able you are going to have to prove complex and severe needs. You maybe able to do that as it in no way relates to intelligence (eg. Stephen Hawkins). But don't be afraid to put professionals on the stop and ask them (always in writing) to explain to you why your child cannot write (for example), and for them to say what supports or approaches or systems should be used to improve that skill. If it is a memory retrieval problem (which is part of my sons conceptual problems), then they can play memory retrieval games etc.