Driving Licence

[madme]

Moving on from my earlier post I started to think about employment etc. I'm aware that while the army might be ideal for my son as rigid rules, discipline etc ( I have a cousin who was clearly ADHD (undx)and who flourished in the army) if he is still on meds he wouldnt be able to apply and I suspect the mere fact of an ADHD As dx would preclude him. I started then to think what could he do. Then I wondered about driving- apparently it all has to be declared. He takes 40mg ritalin and 0.5 risperidone. Does anyone have any experience of the DVLA attitude to aspergers/adhd and meds? I imagine that insurance would be through the roof. Travel insurance if we wanted cover for his Adhd and AS was four times the price for a family cover for the year- so we let it be excluded.

[forbsay]

I will try and find out for you. My hubby is training to be a driving instructor with BSM.

 

Will let you know

 

Forbsay

[Mumble]

Why on earth would it make any difference? If anything, I'm better at hazard perception than most NTs because I see the details they miss. I haven't driven since I've been diagnosed (I moved to London before then and don't need to drive) but I'd never even thought about declaring my AS to the DVLA or on applying for insurance. If you pass a driving test then you're declared fit in your current medical state to drive a car. AS is a lifelong condition - if anything it gets better rather than worse, so why should it make a difference to being safe or otherwise to drive?

 

ADHD is probably slightly different and I don't have experience here, but what are travel insurance companies charging extra for in putting higher premiums on AS individuals? Why are we any more of a risk than an NT individual? This sounds like blatant discrimination to me.

[Bard]

Epileptics can drive if the fits are controlled by medication, and that sounds a lot more risky than anything related to ASDs. If you do have a fit, then you're not allowed to drive until you've had a year without fitting.

[madme]

Mumble - last year i phoned lots of cos for travel insurance- only to be told that they would exclude anything related to AS or ADHD. I asked one co why they loaded their premiums and they told me that they had evidence that people with As had caused difficulties on planes! I didnt get any further as I was so wound up. I have meant for ages to follow it up - I think that I will and perhaps take it further.

Im afraid that the DVLA themselves apparently state that AS must be declared - if that is so- if its not declared then would it possibly invalidate any insurance policy ?! I have two children with As and it frightens me that they could be precluded from driving. I think that it is discrimination but largely unknown as most people dont realise that they must declare it.

[Kazzen161]

www.oaasis.co.uk/infosheets.htm

 

has an info sheet on AS and driving.

[badonkadonk]

I knew I wouldn't be able to keep my big mouth shut for too long

 

I am utterly frustrated at reading the OAASIS and DVLA websites, sooooooo angry

 

Ok, breathes deeply, my issues and concerns hopefully in some kind of coherent ramble...

 

Firstly the OAASIS website, why oh why is Asperger Syndrome listed as a learning difficulty? Yes AS students at school are mostly considered as SEN students because they have educational needs that are, at times, different to the majority of pupils and therefore need extra help. But this doesn't mean that they have a learning difficulty. I am aware that AS can go hand in hand with other things such as Dyslexia, Dyscalcula (sp?) and they are considered learning difficulties but to suggest that AS in itself is a learning difficulty is absurd because it implies that everyone who is AS will have had academic problems at school. I'm not saying my school experience was the definitive AS school experience but I've never had a learning difficulty, neither has Neil and neither did the Y7 AS pupil I taught during my teaching practice or the two AS students my mum teaches. Now we might just be the smallest minority ever and it just so happens that I'm aware of all the other AS people in the world who don't have learning difficulties but come on, never in a million years is that the case. Nothing against learning difficulties or saying that you have a learning difficulty, I'm not angry about being given that label, I'm frustrated that it's just assumed that I must have academic difficulties because I'm AS as if this is what AS is all about. It's not. It's a lifelong difference encompassing a wide variety of areas.

 

Another thing that really naffed me off that I read on the OAASIS website is the Asperger Syndrome download on the Information Sheets page, specifically a little sentence they shove into the document as fact.

'People with AS make better efforts to adapt socially than do those with Autism. They have a genuine desire to make social contact but there are problems with two-way social interaction and not understanding social behaviour rules, problems can occur in relationships as adolescents/adults. '

I'm just gobsmacked I really am. We make more effort? WTF? Yes I'm sure all those who are Autistic simply choose to make no effort at all to communicate. What a load of tosh. It's just another skewed assumption that all Aspies want to communicate but don't know how. Sorry to bang on about my own experiences again but me and Neil know damn well how to communicate, how to come across as personable when the time demands it (job interviews and the like) and how to socialise with peers etc (don't tell anyone but the loony tune Aspies actually went out for a meal last Sunday, with another couple, who were Neurotypical *GASP* I'm such a fraud). I'm not dismissing that these 'problems' occur with other Aspies, I'm sure they do. They do with me too still, and Neil, but the difference is that it's not that we don't know how to socialise and communicate it's that for the most part it's uncomfortable and not something that we desire to do. Just because it's something I don't enjoy doing it doesn't mean that I can't do it. This is the problem that we have getting employers to understand AS in a positive way because as soon as we say AS and give them any info to read it screams communication difficulties at them which they then assume means 'can't talk'. I could rant all day about this point but I won't because it would be very boring

 

Anyway onto the DVLA, yes it does say that you should put down AS on the forms and it goes on to say that just because you are AS it doesn't automatically bar you from driving (I suppose we should be thankful or something ) and it goes on to say that cases are decided on an individual basis. I suppose the only hope is that if you do disclose you can show them just how stupid their thinking is when you drive and act like a 'normal' person. The DVLA says that even though AS doesn't mean you can't drive factors such as 'impulsivity, lack of awareness of the impact of own behaviours on self or others need to be considered'. I have no idea what the hell that is supposed to mean, as far as I was aware us AS types are the least impulsive people on the planet! Is this what they mean? Are they concerned that in a difficult situation on the road we would lack the impulsivity to act in the right way? I can't see this being the case as it clearly doesn't make sense. There is a very big difference between wanting to plan everything and disliking changes to day to day routine to acting on instinct to get yourself out of a tricky situation. In terms of considering others I guess it depends on the person, I mean what about the business exec in his BMW who races up the fast lane on the motorway and drives very dangerously up the backside of your car until you give in and move out of the way? Is he thinking about other people? I know the point I'm trying to make here and I keep typing out various sentences trying to explain it but each time it sounds offensive to those who really do have more difficulties in these areas so I'm going to give up trying. Suffice to say I was undiagnosed when I took my driving test and I never had any problems, except for reverse parking maybe! I failed my test the first time yes because I was so excited at getting all the way around the test route that I stopped concentrating briefly as we came back down the road to the test centre and turned right into the test centre without paying any notice to the pedestrian that I almost hit. Ooops! Second time I passed my test with 3 minors. In terms of my driving ability I've never had a crash (fingers crossed) and I've got five years no claims bonus this August. I have 3 points on my license from daring to drive 34mph in a 30mph zone, but that is down to the fact that I would have crashed if I had been monitoring my speedometer so closely and not concentrated on driving than my ability as an Aspie to drive. I follow the rules of driving rigidly in most cases, except for when I make more of an effort to take others into account, god forbid. For example I don't drive at the speed limit if it is not in keeping with the flow of traffic i.e. if it is a 30mph road and the traffic down the road is doing 35-40mph I will keep up with the car in front so I don't cause conflict. If there are no cars in front or behind me I do as I wish and follow the speed limits as roughly as most people do. Neil on the other hand drives at the speed limit and s*d the consequences! He isn't so easily intimidated by Mr BMW as I am But even Neil goes past 70mph on the motorway the speed demon!

 

I guess at the end of the day it is down to the inidivual...do you believe that you would have enough issues driving to warrant informing the DVLA or your instructor about? For me personally I won't be writing to the DVLA to tell them about my AS. I don't consider myself to have a medical condition or mental health condition and I never tick the disabled box on forms because I honestly don't consider myself to have a disability. A diffability yes It doesn't mean that I don't ever declare my AS, I do if I think it would be beneficial for others to know so for example my doctor, optician and local gym knows. If I'm breaking the law by not telling the DVLA then so be it, I can't see any situation in the future where it would even begin to be an issue. Same goes for travel insurance. Just because I'm AS it does not make me more likely to have an accident or require medical attention. Besides which it is supposedly a disability and not a medical condition and therefore my choice if I want to disclose or not. I wonder if people in a wheelchair have to pay higher travel insurance also? Are they more likely to get ill or have an accident just because they sit in a chair with wheels on it? The stupid thing is, is that I can see some insurance companies arguing that this is the case. Absolute tosh. My rather untrustworthy advice would be not to disclose about AS/ASD on forms unless you think it is necessary to do so. After all if your child gets sick or you yourself gets sick it won't be because they or yourselves are Autistic. Sure when treatment is received inform those dealing with the situation that you or your kids are Autistic if you think it is of benefit for them to know, that makes sense, but I certainly won't be worrying about 'lying' to insurance companies in the future. I wonder if it's the same for home insurance? Is your home more likely to burn down because you're Autistic or have Autistic children? Jeez Louise.

 

Anyway apologies for the big ol'ramble, feel free to ignore everything I've said as most of it is just incohesive babbling

 

Emily

xxx

[pearl]

Hi Emily xx

 

We didnt know we were supposed to disclose AS to the DVLA, so JP just went ahead & did it, no adjustments, no allowances, nothing, & he passed first time.

 

He follows the rules, he's doing very well, only gets into difficulties when other people dont follow the rules & mess things up for him.

 

He's not on any meds though, so cant advise about that.

[TheNeil]

Neil on the other hand drives at the speed limit and s*d the consequences! He isn't so easily intimidated by Mr BMW as I am But even Neil goes past 70mph on the motorway the speed demon!

 

Just for the benefit of any officers of the law who may be reading this, Neil drives up to the speed limit and never goes above it (apart from on motorways but that's to keep up with the traffic and avoid causing accidents)(honest officer)

 

Getting slightly back on topic, I didn't even know that you did have to declare that you were AS/ASD. When I passed my test I certainly hadn't been dx'd and I don't see any reason to tell them now (save them the paperwork). Like Emily I passed my test on the second attempt. I've only crashed once in over five years (skidded on ice 3 months after passing my test) and have a totally clean license - what makes me a danger? If anything by sticking to rules, routines and procedures we're arguably better drivers - we not only follow the rules but we're often far more observant.

 

Hooray for informed and supportive people and organisations

[Mumble]

Well said :clap: I'm not intending to go off now and declare being AS to the DVLA - oooh, does this mean when I get off a plane I can no longer go down the 'nothing to declare' channel at customs?! :lol: I think what you say about individuals having the choice of whether to declare disbailities or not fits nicely in here - very logical and I like that!!

 

 

The DVLA says that even though AS doesn't mean you can't drive factors such as 'impulsivity, lack of awareness of the impact of own behaviours on self or others need to be considered'. I have no idea what the hell that is supposed to mean, as far as I was aware us AS types are the least impulsive people on the planet! Is this what they mean? Are they concerned that in a difficult situation on the road we would lack the impulsivity to act in the right way?

Ah, no, you see this is all part of the big conspiracy. They want people to act impusively, to jump out of their cars and whack other motorists who don't follow the highway code over the head with a meat mallet - that way the year on year increase in violent crime statistics are maintained and the BBC has something to fill its 24 hour news reportage with. If they knowingly allow us non-impulsive types behind the wheel we might just ruin the statistics for the story they want to tell!!

 

Neil on the other hand drives at the speed limit and s*d the consequences! He isn't so easily intimidated by Mr BMW as I am But even Neil goes past 70mph on the motorway the speed demon!

:whistle:

 

Travel insurance is the one that worries me - I would never have thought to declare as my AS is not going to have any impact on how safe I am on holiday. I've had one major accident on holiday (not my fault at all - bad maintenence) which cost vast amounts of money to the insurance people - if I hadn't been able to get insurance I hate to think what might have happened. It does worry me though that they could look into my medical records and decide not to pay out because I didn't declare, even if it wasn't a factor. I recently looked into doing one of those sponsored charity treks for the NAS but reading the small print re insurance it did look like I would probably be excluded on the basis of my AS - now how rediculous is that?

[badonkadonk]

Maybe they're onto the whole Aspies being more likely to brick people to death thing? I mean I know I put my brick into its specially adapted car seat when I go on a drive but only so my brick doesn't miss out and gets to sight-see with me, honest!

 

Nothing surprises me with the NAS anymore. I rang them about employment and they said go to the job centre or do volunteering (apparently this should be good enough because us Aspies don't need money to survive, right?) so then I got in touch about volunteering and they said oh no Emily, you can't do befriending but do you want someone to come and befriend you? And oh no Emily, you can't act as a supervisor for the local AS social group, you're Aspie you see, but would you like to fill out our highly embarrassing and patronising membership form so that you, oh little damaged Aspie one, can make friends too because we all know that you can't do it by yourselves and forcing you to sign up for a membership sends you all the right signals about your ability to make friends. Just be sure to sign the disclaimer saying that you understand that you can't be friends with the supervisors outside of the social group meet-ups, we can't have you fraternising with the neuros now can we! And last but not least, oh no Emily you can't help on the parent-to-parent helpline because you're not a parent, plain and simple. We won't even give thought to the fact that you might be able to help parents and provide a verbal link between their children and themselves, oh no, you're not a parent so we will employ that classic neuro black and white thinking and reject you.

 

I mean how flipping stupid to do a charity walk in aid of Autism and not allow those who are ASD to take part????? OH NO IDIOT LOONY TUNES! You can't possibly help yourselves, we have to raise money so we can just patronise you and tell you what you can't do for many, many more years to come. Pah, walking!! An Aspie!! All by yourself! Kerazy

 

It's all just mental

 

Emily

xxx

[Mumble]

Oh my - well I'll get back to this thread later. I'm off to see an AS professional now who knows what I need - I'm going to die . . . .

 

Ring the Jellycopters if I'm not back by this evening . . .

[pearl]

This thread seems to be segueing into something else altogether, so I'll have my little "volunteering" rant here....

 

JP attended Barnardo's support groups for years, & as he approached 16 decided he'd like to become a volunteer & give something back. We went to see them, & they were very positve, wow a service user becoming a volunteer, what progress etc. They suggested he help out in a computer group that was starting up - ideal.

 

So he filled in gazillions of forms, got police clearance, we waited.... nothing.

 

I rang to see what was happening, and a very embarrassed support worker told me that it had been decided that as JP would need 1-1 support in order to volunteer (errr, would he?) it was not practical to take him on. I expect we'd still be waiting for the call if I hadnt rung.

 

I didnt kick up a fuss on this occasion - life's too short, you have to pick your battles, I just thought, their loss, but to this day I have not told JP. He stopped asking after a while.

[Mumble]

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Right that's my little frustration out (the big one's still inside - I'm dealing with it with chocolate and I suspect later a little wine )

 

I have just been spoken for (can't possibly speak for myself), treated like I have no brain (quote in meeting -'I'm helping Mumble to think and to know'), spoken about whilst I'm sitting there ('Mumble would like to say that . . . ' - erm, hello, I'm here, I have vocal cords . . .), translated when speaking clearly ('what Mumble means is that . . .' - erm, no, what Mumble means is what Mumble just said - surprising that), treated like a poor helpless individual in need of looking after when I stutter once down to the stress from the 'professional' ('Aw, what Mumble wants to say is that . . .' - erm, actually no - wrong again), had it thought that I can't work out the difference between two times so she can get away with charging extra (hey, woman, did you listen when I told you what my course was?). Seriously how can the professionals get away with having so little clue?

 

I suppose that's answered by Emily's and Pearl's experiences above. Why are they so scared of us when we have so much to give? If the organisations in charge of promoting awareness have so little understanding what hope do we have? I'm not a scary person really - honest. Despite all this talk of bricks and meat mallets. :whistle:

 

And apologies to whoever started this thread for taking it over completely.

[TheNeil]

I have just been spoken for (can't possibly speak for myself), treated like I have no brain (quote in meeting -'I'm helping Mumble to think and to know'), spoken about whilst I'm sitting there ('Mumble would like to say that . . . ' - erm, hello, I'm here, I have vocal cords . . .), translated when speaking clearly ('what Mumble means is that . . .' - erm, no, what Mumble means is what Mumble just said - surprising that), treated like a poor helpless individual in need of looking after when I stutter once down to the stress from the 'professional' ('Aw, what Mumble wants to say is that . . .' - erm, actually no - wrong again), had it thought that I can't work out the difference between two times so she can get away with charging extra (hey, woman, did you listen when I told you what my course was?).

 

Welcome to the fantastic world of AS. It really does feel good to know that just because you have a piece of paper that says that you're 'different', you suddenly lose the ability to think, hold together a coherant argument, speak, be able to express yourself, listen, understand and possibly dress yourself.

 

Eventually you'll be able to progress to the same level of 'care' that my dad got and become completely invisible

 

Seriously how can the professionals get away with having so little clue?

Because we have c-o-m-m-u-n-i-c-a-t-i-o-n p-r-o-b-l-e-m-s and this makes us too stupid to even realise the most obvious of things. The 'professionals' obviously know each of us far better than we know ourselves despite the fact that every Aspie is different.

 

My preferred response is to sit there and let them talk down to me, treat me like a simpleton and then blast them with some observation, statement or comment that proves that I have an IQ greater than that of a glass of water.

 

Seriously though, Emily and I have talked about this before and, despite the fact that AS and ASDs are often seen as 'umbrella terms' that cover a wide range of symptoms, quirks and character traits, those supposedly 'in the know' seem to insist on treating every Aspergic, Autistic and ASD case exactly the same way. They seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that we're all different, have different needs and skills and are not all carbon copies of a textbook description of what as Autistic, Aspergic etc. actually is.

 

The concensus amongst 'those in the know' seems to be that anyone with an ASD dx has had difficulties from birth, had support from an early age, has learning difficulties, can't communicate, doesn't want to communicate, has always been 'special', can't tie their own shoelaces, eats nothing but spaghetti hoops (or whatever) and will wander off if they don't have a parent or guardian to hold their hand. While I know that there are Autistics out there who will need to be looked after 24/7 there are varying degrees in everything and ASDs are no different. What I find so amazingly frustrating as an Aspie though is that one of the dx criteria states that we're supposed to have average or above average intelligence...yet we get treated like grade A morons.

[Mumble]

Welcome to the fantastic world of AS. It really does feel good to know that just because you have a piece of paper that says that you're 'different', you suddenly lose the ability to think, hold together a coherant argument, speak, be able to express yourself, listen, understand and possibly dress yourself.

 

Eventually you'll be able to progress to the same level of 'care' that my dad got and become completely invisible

Oooohhhh, right. Sorry, communication difficulties, I've been a few months slow in comprehending this. I see, so ASDs are progressive conditions? And there was silly old me assuming otherwise. Ho hum, I guess I'd better sign myself up for a padded cell now, particularly given the housing shortage in London. You are of course absolutely right - I was being too stoopid to realise the obvious. I don't know myself and should get rid of these dellusional thoughts I have that a) I do know myself and b ) I've been some use to some parents on here in helping them to understand their children. Llisa and Bard in particular as you've been my most recent victims - please ignore everything I've ever said - I'm clearly 'not right in the head'. In fact feel free to sue me for my incompetence. : I've clearly gone and totally misunderstood the purpose of the 'support' I have (communication issues again I'm sure). There was me thinking the purpose was to help me with some of the specific barriers I have so I could be totally independent and fully productive, not the other way around.

 

Aha - lightbulb moment. If they did do their job properly they wouldn't have a job to do - that's it, isn't it? They need us to be needy so they can fulfill that need.

 

What I find so amazingly frustrating as an Aspie though is that one of the dx criteria states that we're supposed to have average or above average intelligence...yet we get treated like grade A morons.

You know I'd never thought of that. Ooh, now I'm frustrated.

 

Emily - if you still want to be a befriender and fancy a long commute, you can come and befriend me using the funding that's available to find someone to support me. Personally, I couldn't think of anything better than to be supported by someone who actually understands me rather than reads a textbook and thinks they know. I understand now why someone who might be ASD chooses not to seek diagnosis so they can still be accepted on both sides of the fence. Clever move (oh, that'll be the intelligent thing again). Us dx-ed people have moved through into the 'other world' never to return to haunt the neuros (except on their terms).

[Kathryn]

Nothing surprises me with the NAS anymore. I rang them about employment and they said go to the job centre or do volunteering (apparently this should be good enough because us Aspies don't need money to survive, right?) so then I got in touch about volunteering and they said oh no Emily, you can't do befriending but do you want someone to come and befriend you? And oh no Emily, you can't act as a supervisor for the local AS social group, you're Aspie you see, but would you like to fill out our highly embarrassing and patronising membership form so that you, oh little damaged Aspie one, can make friends too because we all know that you can't do it by yourselves and forcing you to sign up for a membership sends you all the right signals about your ability to make friends. Just be sure to sign the disclaimer saying that you understand that you can't be friends with the supervisors outside of the social group meet-ups, we can't have you fraternising with the neuros now can we! And last but not least, oh no Emily you can't help on the parent-to-parent helpline because you're not a parent, plain and simple. We won't even give thought to the fact that you might be able to help parents and provide a verbal link between their children and themselves, oh no, you're not a parent so we will employ that classic neuro black and white thinking and reject you.

 

It's all just mental

 

This is deeply worrying. My daughter also finds the NAS patronising, and won't have anything to do with any organisation which purports to serve people with AS - she doesn't want to be categorised thus by others. Although she fully accepts being autistic and knows she needs help sometimes, she believes autism is just one aspect of her personality and not the chief defining characteristic.

 

Recently, as a member, I was sent voting papers for the election of NAS national councillors. I noticed that about half of the candidates had a dx of AS, so I voted for all of those. I think more people with AS are needed in key positions - only them will attitudes change.

 

This thread has veered a long way from the opening post, hasn't it, but it's an interesting discussion!

 

K x

[Bard]

I'm very tired, having spent the day in London with an excited 16 year old, so pardon if spelling and thinking is wooly. I think this is a fascinating and necessary thread, which has highlighted a few of the absurd beliefs and responses that are around in the world.

Badonkadonk, you're right. AS is not a learning disability. The fact that many children with AS have associated learning difficulties has enabled this idiotic idea to muddle along.

B left his primary with level 5 in everything, and a particular talent for art. I'm sure that he's one of many AS students who has no problem with the curriculum.

Driving: " impulsivity, lack of awareness of the impact of own behaviours on self or others need to be considered'. Sorry, but that covers the majority of teenagers of either sex, and the majority of men whatever their age!

 

Being patronised and infantilised by NT professionals who aren't comfortable in a relationship if they have to recognise that person as an individual equal to themselves, rather than handicapped in some way. It's so much easier to be condescending than actually listen. The same goes for valuing opinions and respecting the insights of others, without being distracted by externals like stims, or eye contact.

 

"you're Aspie you see, but would you like to fill out our highly embarrassing and patronising membership form so that you, oh little damaged Aspie one, can make friends too because we all know that you can't do it by yourselves"

 

Why didn't they ask JP what, if any, support he'd need to be a volunteer? Instead of deciding for him, and rejecting him out of hand.

 

And now my friend Mumble:

Why are they so scared of us when we have so much to give? If the organisations in charge of promoting awareness have so little understanding what hope do we have?

 

Because of prejudice and ignorance. The organisations weren't set up by Aspies, but for Aspies. With others deciding for you, as you weren't capable of making decisions like that on your own, were you?

The hope you have is you.

100 years ago, the majority of African Americans faced this sort of response. That they were too stupid, brutish and childlike to be treated as responsible adults. It wasn't long ago that women were treated as objects, incapable of thinking like an adult, owning property. There were pamphlets written about how women who exercised their intellect too vigorously would become sterile.

So now it's you on the front line, pioneering and challenging the response of society to your differences. It isn't fair, and it isn't right that you are having to fight every inch of the way, but it is what needs to happen if the situation is to change.

And, Mumble, I am not one of your most recent victim. I'm one of your most recent friends.

 

Wow. this post is almost as long as one of Badonkadonks!

[badonkadonk]

Hehehehehe cheeky wotsit! I can't help it if I have verbal incontinence

 

I think this issue is important and to begin with I pretty much convinced myself that it was another rejection for Emily and not necessarily an Aspie thing...all sorts of criticisms like I came on to strong, I freaked them out with my enthusiasm, I came across as a bit weird...I bet it's not every day that the NAS get novel-like emails from some mad Brummie woman saying 'let me help, I can help, can I help?' But I'm rather relieved that it's not just me and my meeting with Prospects the other day proved that it wasn't me being mental but them being predjudiced. When we went through filling in all the forms, which they did incredibly slowly and tentatively as if asking me what communication issues I had in employment or sensory concerns was somehow going to offend me. They even asked if I had any obsessions that would affect my ability to work? I was totally confused by this and said 'no, my obsessions are Spongebob, Betty Boo and collecting pens.' The assumption was that I would be so totally consumed by my obsessions that I could not begin to focus on doing some work. Fine I get that with some people the obsession can go this far but to assume that I can't control myself enough to do anything other than be obsessed with my interests is ridiculous. I asked what they meant when they said this to me and the one woman said 'well it's just that the person who came in before you had a thing about washing machines.' WHAT? How is that going to stop him from working? I mean if it is so bad that he can't bear to not look at a washing machine help him get a job in Comet or Currys FFS!!! It's a wonder they made an appointment to see me at all really, they must have been having an off day not to assume that I wouldn't leave the house because I would be too busy watching Spongebob.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread by the way

 

Mumble - if I can help in any way you know I will. It's no secret that I have a big mouth so I'm here if you need me

 

It really, really frustrates me because all I want to do is help people, I would love to work as a mentor for students who are ASC/AS or as some kind of support worker for families. I don't know whether I'd be any good at the job, let alone better than those who are already doing these jobs but I'm never given the chance to even try! Mind you I seem to be cursed either way when it comes to getting into the area of work that I want to do. The only real opportunity came up recently, working as a TA in a ASC unit attached to a high school in York. Fantastic I thought, it's working in education and it's helping those on the spectrum. So I filled in the forms and sent them all off and heard nothing back. Great, it's my lack of work experience and the fact that I've disclosed about being ill as well as being Aspergers that has got me rejected yet again. I'm used to coping with that now but I got a phone call at the end of last week from the school and they said that unfortunately my application form had only arrived on that day, the day they were doing the interviews, because stoopid me had forgotten the new postage rules and only put one first class stamp on the A4 envelope and that I couldn't be considered because the interviews were in progress I'm still beating myself up about that one!

 

Anyway, I'm off again, though here's an interesting point my genius boyfriend just made (I was going to claim this as my own brilliant idea but Neil would beat me up hehehehe) he wondered if Einstein was ever asked if he had a statement or had a 1-1 support worker to make sure his brain didn't explode when he had an idea. What about Steven Spielberg? Does he get someone else to give direction on set lest he try to form a sentence by himself? Thinking about it I'm sure Dan Ackroyd is really operated by NT puppets when he acts and Gary Numan has a social worker to make sure that he doesn't just sit prodding keyboards all day and actually takes a bath sometimes!

 

Emily

xxx

[Bard]

I worked with an NT woman who was obsessed with shoes, handbags, Hello magazine and celeb gossip.

It did interfere with her work because she spent large portions of her teachers PPA time looking up things on the net about her areas of interest.

She's moved on thank God!

 

Wasn't Einstein classed as special needs at school? Seem to vaguely remember that he wouldn't/couldn't write and had poor social communication skills...or am I muddled?

Edited July 28, 2007 by Bard

[Mumble]

Oh what a morning (and it's only half past ten (well is was when I started writing) ). First Bard makes me cry :

And, Mumble, I am not one of your most recent victims. I'm one of your most recent friends.

 

And then Emily makes me laugh so hard I end up crying :

he wondered if Einstein was ever asked if he had a statement or had a 1-1 support worker to make sure his brain didn't explode when he had an idea. What about Steven Spielberg? Does he get someone else to give direction on set lest he try to form a sentence by himself? Thinking about it I'm sure Dan Ackroyd is really operated by NT puppets when he acts and Gary Numan has a social worker to make sure that he doesn't just sit prodding keyboards all day and actually takes a bath sometimes!

I say claim it for yourself - typers keepers! Plus Neil doesn't post at the weekends so you've got around 48 hours to secure the copyright for yourself I love the washing machine thing too! Must watch these obsessions . . .

 

I need to go and eat chocolate to keep myelf sane - oh, I already am. Hmm.

 

Now back to the sensible (though idiotic matters). I think this thread (so sorry about the take-over - it's an obsession I can't overcome - I have to take over people's threads and spend all my time when I should be working - ooh, that's probably about right - coming up with more and more cunning and devious ways of doing so) could be combined with the Prospects thread as they're basically covering the same things.

 

Although I've felt really angry reading some of your experiences, what it has done for me, and I hope also for a number of you, if make me realise that it's not me. Emily puts this well:

I pretty much convinced myself that it was another rejection for Emily and not necessarily an Aspie thing...But I'm rather relieved that it's not just me and my meeting with Prospects the other day proved that it wasn't me being mental but them being predjudiced.

Exactly where I was coming from - it had to be me having the problem with these people who were trying to help me, particularly as I couldn't find any negative experiences anywhere on the internet - hence why I started the original thread which has got us goodness knows where - to a rather scary place having opened a very large can of worms (that was my metaphor for yesterday and it seems to fit well). I thought that I was just being difficult, that I didn't deserve to have my AS label because I wanted more than 'basic' and can do more than 'basic'. I thought it had to be me who was being a difficult, arrogant, ignorance, perpetuant sod who didn't deserve any support in what I was doing because I clearly belonged to 'the other' and had no right to think I could succeed in what I am doing. I thought it had to be me misinterpreting the situation I had been thrust into where I felt I was being treated as incapable, with very little prospect of any degree of success. I felt undermined in having the effort that I'd but into getting my degrees taken away from me - I must have been helped because little AS me couldn't possibly get them on my own. What I am discovering now is that there are probably several of us out there with very similar experiences thoughts and feelings - we all thought we were the only one (and I wonder what underhand tactics were being used to make us feel this way? ) and it is on this that the professionals have preyed. I'm really unsure what to do with this information now and how to move forwards. I feel that I want to do something as I have a huge sense of justice and of what is right and wrong. And this is definately wrong.

 

Badonkadonk, you're right. AS is not a learning disability. The fact that many children with AS have associated learning difficulties has enabled this idiotic idea to muddle along.

I think this is key. I will fight till I'm black and blue with people to explain that I do not have a learning disability. And before anyone starts to get at me or suggest I'm ashasmed of who I am - no, absolutely not. I'm quite happy being AS - I like the way I view the world (to me it's normal). All I want is some acceptance that it's ok for me to be as I am - I really don't think this is a big ask. Even with my dyspraxia, I wouldn't say I have a learning disability - extra bruises on my not-funny bones and not being the world's best fielder do not preclude me from learning. Even my slightly messy handwriting isn't a barrier to learning - I think I've proved that by how far I've got by myself without support. In fact, if anything (and this sounds corny writing it but I hope you'll understand) AS is a learning ability - I can concentrate for long periods, I'm not distracted by who's dating who or whether my makeup's perfect, I can see things through more logically and look at problems in a different way that might just reveal the solution to something the neuros haven't been able to see from their perspective.

 

It's so much easier to be condescending than actually listen. The same goes for valuing opinions and respecting the insights of others, without being distracted by externals like stims, or eye contact.

Well why can my supervisor and tutor do this (my supervisor even called me an 'expert' last week because I know more about my specific area of the field than he does) and the people who are supposed to be able to do it not do it? The most stupid thing in this of course is that when I feel more relaxed and valued the stims virtually disappear (unless I get really excited about what I'm talking about ) - the eye-contact still isn't great, but it's improving, because I don't feel threatened. With the stupid 'mentor' I spend every minute feeling intimidated, frightened, stupid, different (in a bad way), difficult, unvalued and worthless.

 

Mumble - if I can help in any way you know I will. It's no secret that I have a big mouth so I'm here if you need me

 

It really, really frustrates me because all I want to do is help people, I would love to work as a mentor for students who are ASC/AS or as some kind of support worker for families.

It really is a shame you're so far away - do you think you could convince Neil to move south? We have a far larger range of fridges in our stores down here Ideally I would like someone who can be a friend as much as anything else (not allowed with a mentor, and anyway I wouldn't want to be her friend). Someone who'll put up with my slight oddities (because they're getting paid for it!) and who will understand what's stressing me out about something when it seems so simple to an NT - someone who won't sit in judgement of me but will help me to get through whatever's worrying me. Someone who will just happily sit and talk to or listen to me winge or equally so be company for me when I want company but don't feel much like talking. Someone who truely understand and can help me to put together coping strategies that suit what I need to cope with rather than Mr Generalised Aspie, and that suit me rather than what an NT thinks I should want or be doing. The advice I've had on here about things like making presentations had been more valuable than anything I've got from NTs and how to do it guides.

 

Oooh, look, I've managed a badonkadonk length post (and eaten a whole bar of choccy in the process )

 

The hope you have is you.

Oh dear - sorry world - I'm a big disappointment.

 

I'll need to think about how to go forwards - I don't want to let this lie here because it seems to be so much of a bigger issue than I think anyone really realised. That's why this forum is so useful.

[Bard]

" In fact, if anything (and this sounds corny writing it but I hope you'll understand) AS is a learning ability - I can concentrate for long periods, I'm not distracted by who's dating who or whether my makeup's perfect, I can see things through more logically and look at problems in a different way that might just reveal the solution to something the neuros haven't been able to see from their perspective."

 

That's almost exactly what B said to another year 7 who told him that he had a mental handicap.

" It's not a mental handicap, it's a mental advantage."

Maybe we should get into the slogan T shirt business!

Thanks for correcting my grammar <'>

[Mumble]

" It's not a mental handicap, it's a mental advantage."

Maybe we should get into the slogan T shirt business!

I saw a great one I really wanted in Cambridge but they didn't have it in blue - it simply said "Do I look like a people person?"

 

Thanks for correcting my grammar <'>

sorry.

[Bard]

There was a hug attached, to show that I meant it.

I dislike spelling mistakes and repetition of words in my posts, so I was pleased that when you quoted me, you corrected the mistake.

 

I've edited this because I put a space in the wrong place.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Bard

[pearl]

I am loving this thread. I am really annoyed with myself now for not challenging Barnardo's over rejecting JP, its not like me not to, it was just one thing too many at the time.

 

Trouble is, I doubt theres anyone from the NAS/Barnardos etc etc reading this, how do we get this across to them?

 

And one other thing - I'm not being provocative here, its something I really struggle with & with this meeting coming up with JP & his supervisor I sooo want to get it right -

 

AS is not a learning difficulty. Agreed.

 

Lots of Aspies would not consider themselves disabled. Agreed.

 

But JP gets Disability Living Allowance until he's 21, by which time if he's supporting himself he will say, no thankyou. How do we square this with what we believe? The State regards it as a disability otherwise we would not have been awarded it. I struggle when I talk to JP about this, on the one hand I'm saying, its just your brain is wired differently, you have strengths which others do not have, on the other, but you get DLA. Theres a real conflict between what I'm saying to him and what is actually happening. I feel we HAVE to consider it a disability if reasonable adjustments are being made for him (ie he got extra time during his apprenticeship test, & he needed it). I dont want him to think of himself as disabled though. Am I making any sense at all? Any coherent thoughts welcome!

[Bard]

Nothing particularly helpful, but Pearl, I'm short. I'm 5' 1".

If I want to reach things in Sainsbury's. I have several choices.

I can sidle up to a tall bloke and say 'You're sooo tall and stwong, help poor little me'

I can get a step-up stool and extend my reach to achieve what I want.

I can be p*ss*d off and climb up the shelves to get the item in question, annoying others and causing the occasional landslide.

 

DLA is the step-up stool.

[Mumble]

Theres a real conflict between what I'm saying to him and what is actually happening. I feel we HAVE to consider it a disability if reasonable adjustments are being made for him (ie he got extra time during his apprenticeship test, & he needed it). I dont want him to think of himself as disabled though. Am I making any sense at all? Any coherent thoughts welcome!

 

I think this is really hitting on some of the key issues - we're caught up in some difficult terminology which brings with it specific stereotypes and expectations. Because HFA/AS doesn't really fit into the categories it is placed into (because it has to go somewhere to fit the need for categorisation before services are offered) we don't fit these stereotypes/expectations, but it is expected that we should because that's the category we are in. In effect we don't fit where we're placed, the professionals can't cope with this and so they try to make us fit so that they then know what to do with us. It's the square peg round hole thing - we don't fit - only in our case the professionals can't cope with this not fitting because they don't have an alternative so they mallet us as hard as necessary to make us see our 'rightful' place and fit the pigeon hole they've allocated to us.

 

The problem you've hit upon of not labelling but needing to to claim services JP is entitled to is something SBC writes about (I can't attach the article as it's subscription only):

 

Abstract:

This article considers whether Asperger syndrome (AS) or high-functioning autism (HFA) necessarily leads to

disability or whether AS/HFA simply leads to ?difference.? It concludes that the term ?difference? in relation to AS/

HFA is a more neutral, value-free, and fairer description than terms such as ?impairment,? ?deficiency,? or

?disability?; that the term ?disability? only applies to the lower functioning cases of autism; but that the term

?disability? may need to be retained for AS/HFA as long as the legal framework provides financial and other

support only for individuals with a disability. Two models are summarized which attempt to define in what way

individuals with AS/HFA are ?different?: the central coherence model, and the folk psychology?folk physics model.

The challenge for research is to test the value of such models and to precisely characterize the differences in

cognitive style.

 

I'm not sure this link will work, but this gives more on what he's talking about:

Is Asperger Syndrome Necessarily a Disability?

[Mumble]

I can be p*ss*d off and climb up the shelves to get the item in question, annoying others and causing the occasional landslide.

Thanks so much Bard - Tea splattered all over monitor!!! :lol:

[Alyth_mum]

Nothing particularly helpful, but Pearl, I'm short. I'm 5' 1".

If I want to reach things in Sainsbury's. I have several choices.

I can sidle up to a tall bloke and say 'You're sooo tall and stwong, help poor little me'

I can get a step-up stool and extend my reach to achieve what I want.

I can be p*ss*d off and climb up the shelves to get the item in question, annoying others and causing the occasional landslide.

 

DLA is the step-up stool.

You forgot to add 'I could wear 6" heels (and fall over!)'

Louise

[badonkadonk]

I won't feel guilty Pearl if you won't

 

Being brutally honest, and possibly making myself more hated in the process, I don't necessarily claim DLA to assist me with any disability-related things. Rest assured that once I get a full time job and I'm in stable employment I will not seek to renew my DLA claim. I also do feel very, very guilty about where my �132 could be better spent. The all out truth is that university left me massively over-drawn and I'm only entitled to the minimum amount of Income Support available (�280 a month). I'm still paying for my car from five years ago because I had to take a loan out over an extended period of time. I have a massive, humungous fear of public transport so my car is very much my only mode of transport most of the time. I have been on a bus three times since I met Neil and we both used the metro service to get into Newcastle for the meet-up but I could have never have done these things without Neil. I try to balance my overall guilt by being mad at the government as the real reason I've been out of work the past 18 months is because I've been battling illness, of which you would think I could have claimed Incapacity Benefit instead of having to resort to DLA. But oh no, because I've been at university doing what Mr Blair said I should be doing and because I only did part time jobs while at university I haven't ever paid enough tax for IB so I didn't qualify.

 

Anyway, like I said I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree with me claiming when I don't consider myself to be disabled and pretty much think I'm scum for doing so. Each to their own

 

Mumble I meant what I said, I'm always here via PM or email and I don't cost a penny. I could even give that whole phone thing ago if that would help. If there is anything I can do, letter writing to nasty mentor woman or just providing moral support and saying 'yep, she's a big ol' b*tch' then let me know. If things don't improve with her I would come down and sit in your corner if you felt it would help

 

If other news, our new fridge freezer arrived today. It's very big!!! I was frightened it wasn't going to fit in the titchy kitchen but we managed to squeeze it in. It's all chrome-type stuff and dead posh and whatnot. I keep opening it just so I can see how pretty it is inside So far it's not too noisy but I'm not holding my breath that it won't annoy me as much as the last one.

 

Getting back on topic, I'm not sure what there is to be done either about changing the attitudes of those who are supposed to understand us and fight for us and help us. It's part of the appeal of being a TA or support worker because at least then I can be doing my bit, chipping away at pre-existing attitudes and helping other Auties and Aspies to not make the same mistakes I've made (though mostly made blindly through being un-diagnosed) and help them get a positive understanding in place quicker so that we don't have so many angry young Aspies sitting out there totally frustrated and mad at the NT world. That NT world is probably not going to change that much, and what change might take place will take an awful long time and a lot of hard work which is why it makes sense to start with ourselves and each other. If we can educate and inform people as to who we really are, and not do it in a angry way or a negative way, but do it in a positive way where we truly explain what communication problems means to us (for me...not getting jokes or understanding the point of small talk) and letting them know all the positives that we can achieve by being ASC that's how attitudes are changed and stereotypes broken.

 

I'm just hoping that another chance to get my foot on the ladder and help anyone affected by ASCs comes up again around here. Fingers crossed when it does I won't forget to stick two stamps on the envelope

 

Emily

xxx

[Canopus]

Can insurance companies find out if someone is officially diagnosed with AS? At the moment I will have the benefit of the doubt in case of an accident resulting from AS because I am not officially diagnosed. If I get an official diagnosis but don't inform the insurance company then will my insurance be invalid?

[Alyth_mum]

I imagine that you should declare it - if an insurance company can wriggle to avoid paying out they will.

 

Louise

[Mumble]

Can insurance companies find out if someone is officially diagnosed with AS? At the moment I will have the benefit of the doubt in case of an accident resulting from AS because I am not officially diagnosed. If I get an official diagnosis but don't inform the insurance company then will my insurance be invalid?

I don't know and this worries me greatly. I've been thinking about it since this thread started. At the moment I only have contents insurance for my uni room and I can't possibly see how being AS has any negative influence on the possibility of a claim - if anything I'm less likely to claim because I'll always check if shut the window and locked the door (And will go back to check even if I'm nearly at the bus stop to check if I can't remember). However, in the future, provided everything goes ok, I'd want a car again (I'd need it for my plans to live away from people!) and would need buildings insurance etc. I also have my Iceland and Canadian Great Lakes adventures planned in my head which I would be a fool not to have travel insurance for. So what do I do? Do I ignore it and claim ignorance (that is what I'm thinking might be best) but then what happens if I need to make a claim? To I declare them and risk not get insurance at all or facing decrimination and high premiums? I wish I knew the answer to this one. Could it effect getting a mortgage as you need life assurance which you might not get if you declare AS?

[Mumble]

I think we've totally crossed paths with these two threads Emily - glad to see we've got to a similar place though - a need for positive change rather than angry responces. Starting with people who care is a way in - how we branch out from here potentially a little more difficult.

 

Mumble I meant what I said, I'm always here via PM or email and I don't cost a penny. I could even give that whole phone thing ago if that would help. If there is anything I can do, letter writing to nasty mentor woman or just providing moral support and saying 'yep, she's a big ol' b*tch' then let me know. If things don't improve with her I would come down and sit in your corner if you felt it would help

This is the sort of thing that people end up regreting saying to me . . . Mentor woman is actually a little young b*tch - we can save big ol' b*tch for my disability officer - and guess what? They're the best of friends!!! You can come and sit in my corner and share obsenities anytime - company that understands is always appreciated <'>

 

If other news, our new fridge freezer arrived today. It's very big!!! I was frightened it wasn't going to fit in the titchy kitchen but we managed to squeeze it in. It's all chrome-type stuff and dead posh and whatnot. I keep opening it just so I can see how pretty it is inside So far it's not too noisy but I'm not holding my breath that it won't annoy me as much as the last one.

Have you scared yourself with the 'fridge game' yet? The question is, does the light really go off when you shut the door? You have to try sneaking up on the fridge and catching it unawares ... or else shutting it really, really slowly and seeing at which point it 'pretends' to go out before coming back on again when it thinks you aren't looking anymore. Of course you could always ask the mice - they need the light on to have a party . . . :wacko:

 

As to jokes and small talk we're probably quite similar - there isn't a point to get - there is no point to it.

 

*screams* sorry, will stop rambling and get back to seriously scary programme - that's if I am allowed to watch such programmes in my AS 'condition'.

[pearl]

Thanks for your replies bard, mumble & emily. Its all helping me get my thoughts straight for this meeting. How JP is perceived by this lovely lady, & how she presents him to his line managers etc, will set the tone for how he is treated at work.

 

Thanks for the link mumble - I've saved it so I can read it at leisure.

 

Bard, I am only half an inch taller than you. I find it gives me great flirting opportunities in Tesco. Last week a rather gawjuss 6'2 scotsman reached the tumble dryer sheets from the top shelf for me & we had a little chat about how I really needed my 3" heels, made my sad little day

[Bard]

Bard, I am only half an inch taller than you. I find it gives me great flirting opportunities in Tesco. Last week a rather gawjuss 6'2 scotsman reached the tumble dryer sheets from the top shelf for me & we had a little chat about how I really needed my 3" heels, made my sad little day

 

So, he was wearing his kilt, then?

 

Heels are not for me. I walk like a drunken duck, wings akimbo and *rs* stuck out. Not elegant or sophisticated.

Tried them years ago, but attempting to be something you are not rarely works for long.

So even heels can be linked to this thread.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Bard

[pearl]

I wish....

[Neil Young]

Who was it who said "Disability is God given and Handicap is man made"?

 

Surely the discussion here lies around the 'Dis' prefix. There will be times when all of us require some support or additional back up whether its from the state, our family or our friends. When this occurs a clearer understanding of what prevents us living our lives to the full at that point in time should help to overcome the problem. This could be because a person has an asd or a person has CP.

 

The problem with the 'Dis' is that it implies what we canot do instead of being the indicator to the way we need additional support (financial, moral or emotional) to get us back to where we want to be.

 

There is a move afoot to replace ASD with ASC (autistic spectrum condition) to indicate that autism is not a spectrum, disorder or disability but rather a landscape.

 

Then we get into the benfits game....................................

 

Google Procrustus!

[pearl]

*googles Procrustus*

ooh, profound, I think.... its late & I'm tired, I'll read it properly tomorrow.

I am liking ASC.

Edited July 29, 2007 by pearl

[Tally]

AS/ASC shouldn't affect insurance premiums for anything, and I've never known it to. You are supposed to reveal it to the DVLA, but most people do not know that, and I haven't told them about my diagnosis. When I applied for life & illness insurance to cover my mortgage payments should I die or be unable to work, I was asked if I or one of my relatives had ever suffered from a short list of illnesses. They don't even look at things like that if you apply for a mortgage or a loan. I recently got travel insurance and was asked if I had any of the illnesses on a short list. It did not ask me to list any other illnesses I might have, and even though my brother has asthma (which was on the list), it didn't affect his premium.