Calling all puter peeps....

[Bagpuss]

 

Joking aside, I could do with abit of advice from anyone who works with puters. DS is in Year 9. Tomorrow evening we have to attend a Careers Evening with him at his school. Apparantly various peeps will be there to advise on different careers, etc etc. DS has decided he wants to work with puter, but DH and I haven't a clue what GSCE's he would need to take. He's unsure what careers are available aswell, and has said he'd like to fix puters and install programmes etc. We know that Teesside Uni do a degree, so that's nice and local...he he he......we'll never let him leave home

Any advice on what subjects he should take and what jobs/courses/degrees are available....many thanks, from Baggy Technophobe

[Mumble]

How about a GCSE in computing?

[mumble_rocks]

Have a look here http://www.connexions-direct.com/jobs4u/ and type in what he wants to do, you can just type in computers and a list will come up!

[Bagpuss]

How about a GCSE in computing?

 

 

See, this is how phobic I am.....I hadn't realised you could do a GCSE in puters?

[Bagpuss]

Have a look here http://www.connexions-direct.com/jobs4u/ and type in what he wants to do, you can just type in computers and a list will come up!

 

Thanks Mumble Rocks...that'll be a great help

[Mumble]

Thanks Mumble Rocks...that'll be a great help

Unless you type in that you want to work with penguins and it comes up and suggests you should be a music producer

[Bagpuss]

Just been on it....hadn't realised there were so many jobs with puters. DS is looking at salaries, rather than requirements He is also really interested in the puter jobs which require no qualifications

[David Matthew Baker]

It would help a bit if we knew what the school offered. Also what type of computing is he interested in. Are you talking programming, computer modelling (things like fluid dynamics, rollercoasters, etc...), game art, finance, etc...

 

Without knowing exactly what he is interested in it is very hard to give any suggestions. Personally I'd worry more about what subjects he enjoys. He is more likely to do well at them. You could easily get onto most computer related careers through specialising at A-Level or even degree level. At present he will still have most options wide open. Computing in many ways relies a lot on the core subjects like science and maths. I would suggest one of the computing related qualifications though. From memory one of them has more programming etc... in it. Can't remember which it is off the top of my head though.

 

Almost all jobs require you to use computers now days in some capacity.

[Bagpuss]

Cheers David. I'm not sure he really knows what he wants to do with puters, only that he really enjoys them, and would like to do it as a career. He said he'd like to "fix" them, install programmes etc. He's not interested in anything to do with the games side of it. I'm horribly organised, and want his degree sorted before his 14th birthday

[Tally]

You can do an A Level in Computing or a BTech. You can do a GCSE in IT, but you might need somewhere quite specialised to do a GCSE in Computing, if such a thing even exists. You don't really need to be looking at specifics at GCSE level anyway. As long as he gets A-C in Maths he should be able to go on to the right subjects in 6th form, but A-C in English and Science GCSE are often needed for university as well, and would keep his options open. The ex did a BTech in Computing and went on to study Software Engineering at university. All his uni mates went onto good jobs, one bought an MG at 25 and could even afford to insure it! But the ex became an alcoholic removal man.

[pearl]

Hiya Baggy

Entirely personal & biased, I'll just tell you what JP did. He did a GNVQ in IT which was much more hands on than the GCSE (he too wanted to "fix" pooters). He then did a Btec in IT, which was continuous assessment so much less pressure (hates exams). They streamed it after the 1st year & he went down the techie, hands on route & had a glorious time stripping down pooters & reassembling them. He then tried his level best to get on an IT apprenticeship, but ended up on a business admin one instead, which we are inclined to think will give him more options. He's hoping for a placement in the IT dept at some stage.

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Tally & Pearl <'>

[TheNeil]

Did I hear a call for TN? Oh well, I'll post some gibberish anyway...

 

How to get into IT? Hmm, better question is does he really want to get into IT? It's not all glitz, glamour, partying and �1m bonuses (actually it's never glitz, glamour, partying or bonuses or any size)

 

The fact that he wants to fix computers and install software might point towards more of a network admin/support role rather than something like programming/software development. As he's still at GCSE level then, luckily, he has lots of option sopen to him and nothing that'll stop him from going down one route instead of another. GCSE computing is a start but, amazingly, not all that useful in the longer term (I never took GCSE computing). More important is getting a decent maths grade and understanding algebra especially. GCSE science (better still physics - can you still take seperate sciences?) and CDT (Craft, Design and Technology - it's probably been renamed in the millenia since I did my GCSEs) would be useful so that he can get a grip on the electronics side of things.

 

After that then A-level computing will start to introduce some more theoretical and 'useful' stuff, but, again, it still doesn't stop him from following any particular route in IT (GCSE computing isn't a requirement for A-level and won't give him any real advantage). Even without A-level computing though he can still get onto an IT degree (yes it's true, you don't need A-level computing to do a computing degree) - A-level maths can be useful though (but, again, not a requirement).

 

What he choses to do at degree level though is important. There are a wealth of courses now but the only real ones worth considering are Computer Science or Software Engineering. Of the two Computer Science is the better and not just because I took it) as it covers hardware and software (Software Engineering only covers software) and gives a better all round understanding and knowledge. Teesside is a fantastic place to study a computing degree though as it was and probably still is) a centre of excellence in computing and they're not only on the cutting edge but are also in the same lleague as Oxford/Cambridge when it comes to computing qualifications and recognition.

 

With an IT degree (preferably Computer Science) he has a whole raft of possible careers open to him: research, hardware support, hardware development, software development, database admin, network support etc. etc. etc.

 

Don't know anything about the BTEC route but, from what Pearl has said, it does sound as though it's a lot more hands on that GCSE, A-level and degree (an Electronics or Electrical Engineering course might be different though).

 

And tell him to stop looking at salaries...the mega-bucks jobs are few and far between (unless, and apols for going technical, he wants to be an SAP consultant and then fortune is guaranteed...and so is madness and tweed jackets with leather elbow pads )

[Bagpuss]

Thanks TN

 

Are you regretting those immortal words in Redcar "if you ever need advice......." And you thought it would be for eldest dd

 

I'm hoping to send her down to Harrogate when she hits puberty...think I'll leave that in Emily's safe hands

[Mumble]

unless, and apols for going technical, he wants to be an SAP consultant and then fortune is guaranteed

Does that involve talking to trees?

[Bard]

Does that involve talking to trees?

 

I talk to trees, and money really doesn't grow on them.

 

Daughter did Business and Computer studies GCSE, and is now on a Computing A level course. Her college also offers Applied IT A level.

Being a technophobe, it just seems to me that there are hundreds of possible computing/ICT combinations around at GCSE, A level and B Tech. So he will have lots of choices.

Good luck!

[Bagpuss]

Thanks Bard DS has just read thru this thread and is now hoping he can avoid careers night The school have sent him home with a list of questions he could ask various people there, and he's terrified of actually having to ask one

[Bard]

He could email his questions to the computer dept at the local 6th form/FE college, point out that he's forward planning and ask their advice on careers.

Lots of computer people seem happy to communicate through text rather than face-to-face.

[Canopus]

 

Joking aside, I could do with abit of advice from anyone who works with puters. DS is in Year 9. Tomorrow evening we have to attend a Careers Evening with him at his school. Apparantly various peeps will be there to advise on different careers, etc etc. DS has decided he wants to work with puter, but DH and I haven't a clue what GSCE's he would need to take. He's unsure what careers are available aswell, and has said he'd like to fix puters and install programmes etc. We know that Teesside Uni do a degree, so that's nice and local...he he he......we'll never let him leave home

Any advice on what subjects he should take and what jobs/courses/degrees are available....many thanks, from Baggy Technophobe

 

Here it goes again. School careers advisors completely useless and unhelpful for anything more technical than serving coffee to passengers on trains.

 

There isn't much to worry about at this stage because no GCSEs are required even for quite advanced careers in computing such as software development. Most employers are more interested in practical experience than academic qualifications and will often give jobs to self educated people or those who have done voluntary work with computers. It is also very easy to take higher level computing qualifications without possessing lower level computing qualifications. For example, no GCSE in ICT is required for an A Level in computing, and no A Level in computing is required for a computing or software engineering degree.

 

As for GCSE options. ICT and maths are compulsory but take the higher level GCSE rather than the intermediate level GCSE.

 

A Levels are offered in both computing and ICT. The computing A Level is more technical (and probably better suited for people with AS) than the ICT A Level, but is allegedly quite difficult to come by as many colleges no longer offer it.

 

How about a GCSE in computing?

 

The computing GCSE was scrapped by exam boards years ago and replaced with the ICT GCSE that is less technical and with questions of a style more suited to NT than AS people.

[TheNeil]

There isn't much to worry about at this stage because no GCSEs are required even for quite advanced careers in computing such as software development. Most employers are more interested in practical experience than academic qualifications and will often give jobs to self educated people or those who have done voluntary work with computers.

Err not in my experience. While GCSEs (or even A-levels) aren't needed to get onto IT degrees (as I said earlier on), employers in many 'advanced careers in computing' (as you put it) won't even look at a candidate unless they have a degree or equivalent qualification (some even go so far as to require a 2:2 as a bare minimum) - this is especially so in software development and it's now becoming the case that employers are starting to only be interested in candidates who have the appropriate Microsoft qualifications (in my own case, 10 years of professional experience means nothing to many potential employers as I lack the necessary bits of paper from Microsoft).

 

I have worked with one person who lacked a degree and had risen to software developer but it had taken him 16 years to do it (and he'd still had to pass additional exams along the way). It can be done without a degree...but it's a damn sight harder.

 

The computing GCSE was scrapped by exam boards years ago and replaced with the ICT GCSE that is less technical and with questions of a style more suited to NT than AS people.

And how many NTs take the exam compared to Aspies? IT has changed since 1967 when soldering irons and being able to perform binary addition in your head were de rigeur. Nowadays IT has to be less technical as it's moved out of the science lab and air-conditioned server room and into the hands of people who don't have the faintest idea what microcode, bit shifting, signal bounceback, infinite loops and all manner of technical doohickeys mean. The days of being able to lock yourself away and never having to communicate with the world just because you 'work with computers' are long gone.

[TheNeil]

Are you regretting those immortal words in Redcar "if you ever need advice......."

Given that I pretty much regret 99% of what I say at one point or another, I'm not going to let it spoil my day

 

And you thought it would be for eldest dd

 

I'm hoping to send her down to Harrogate when she hits puberty...think I'll leave that in Emily's safe hands

Oh yes, definitely one for Emily there. Women's problems and...err...things? Err...erm...oh look at the time...I've just remembered that I've got something very interesting and important to do over there <sound of panicky man running away at great speed>

[bid]

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but my DS did a GNVQ in ICT, which is the equivalent to 4 GCSEs.

 

He did it at his residesi special school, but I think most 16 year olds would probably do it at a mainstream FE college.

 

Boho

[Canopus]

Err not in my experience. While GCSEs (or even A-levels) aren't needed to get onto IT degrees (as I said earlier on), employers in many 'advanced careers in computing' (as you put it) won't even look at a candidate unless they have a degree or equivalent qualification (some even go so far as to require a 2:2 as a bare minimum) - this is especially so in software development and it's now becoming the case that employers are starting to only be interested in candidates who have the appropriate Microsoft qualifications (in my own case, 10 years of professional experience means nothing to many potential employers as I lack the necessary bits of paper from Microsoft).

 

I have worked with one person who lacked a degree and had risen to software developer but it had taken him 16 years to do it (and he'd still had to pass additional exams along the way). It can be done without a degree...but it's a damn sight harder.

 

There is a controversy at the moment whether a degree or vocational qualifications are the best route for a career in IT. Around 10 years ago, a degree in computer science or software engineering was almost an indisputable necessity for a career as a software developer, although computer technicians and systems administrators often got by without degrees. Nowadays, emphasis appears to be shifting more towards vocational qualifications rather than degree courses because employers are finding that degree courses are no longer creating people they want. A Microsoft qualification is rapidly becoming a necessity for any career involving developing software for Windows or administering a network or server based around Microsoft technology. I have been verbally informed that many public sector institutions prefer to employ people with Microsoft qualifications rather than computing degrees.

 

It's difficult to tell how things will change in another 10 years time.

 

And how many NTs take the exam compared to Aspies? IT has changed since 1967 when soldering irons and being able to perform binary addition in your head were de rigeur. Nowadays IT has to be less technical as it's moved out of the science lab and air-conditioned server room and into the hands of people who don't have the faintest idea what microcode, bit shifting, signal bounceback, infinite loops and all manner of technical doohickeys mean. The days of being able to lock yourself away and never having to communicate with the world just because you 'work with computers' are long gone.

 

GCSEs didn't exist in 1967 and I don't think the computing O Level was invented until around 1980. What I was trying to say is the style of the questions of the ICT GCSE are less suited to an AS mindset than the style of the questions from the computing GCSE. The ICT GCSE is damn simple in terms of its curriculum material but it is a very descriptive subject. A person with AS who is good at maths or physics could struggle with the ICT exam and coursework in the same way as they could struggle with history or geography despite having a solid knowledge of the ICT GCSE curriculum.

[badonkadonk]

Hehehehe Baggy, leave him alone he's only little!

 

We are both here if any of you lot (kids and guinea pigs included) ever need an ear to bend, though being a couple of weirdos you might end up worse off than where you started

 

Don't know anything about computing GCSEs and all that malarky but can only reiterate what Neil said for the job requirements bit. Having done a fair amount of job searching on Neil's behalf it's true that a degree and the Microsoft certificates are sought after. Where jobs aren't advertising for a junior role (i.e. straight out of university) they are usually asking for at least 2 years experience so it's not a huge requirement but it's worth not ignoring also.

 

My non-computer related advice would be to say first and foremost pick the subjects you enjoy, even if they aren't your best subjects (as someone else said above). A Level choices are more important (but not make or break) so I would aim to achieve a nice balance between subjects that would be useful in the future and those which you enjoy doing.

 

Again, having looked at university courses (musing going into computers to realise my true Aspie potential myself....only to remember I'm utterly useless at Maths/understanding technical things) A Level Maths and an A Level Science (though not Biology obv) did seem to be asked for more than A Level ICT/Computing.

 

If this whole Maths/Science thing is making your kiddo think, hang on a mo, I didn't want to be doing any of that rubbish! I just want to work with computers! Then I would suggest instead that he goes for a Business Studies/ICT route. In this instance getting as many of the more accessible computing qualifications seems to be a good idea along with getting decent A Levels and a degree. I've only looked briefly into this area so I don't really know what I'm talking about/how to spell things but qualifications like the European Computer Driving Licence (ECDL), CLAIT/CLAIT Plus are a possibility as well as the Microsoft Desktop qualifications which do deal more with installing software and providing user support.

 

At this stage though not worrying too much and picking a good balance of subjects are more important than defining your career path down to the minute details. Keep options open and try to focus on getting a C grade in Maths & English GCSE. It's not the end of the world if these can't be achieved but they do seem to be an absolute must for an awful lot of employers.

 

Emily

xxx

[TheNeil]

GCSEs didn't exist in 1967 and I don't think the computing O Level was invented until around 1980. What I was trying to say is the style of the questions of the ICT GCSE are less suited to an AS mindset than the style of the questions from the computing GCSE. The ICT GCSE is damn simple in terms of its curriculum material but it is a very descriptive subject. A person with AS who is good at maths or physics could struggle with the ICT exam and coursework in the same way as they could struggle with history or geography despite having a solid knowledge of the ICT GCSE curriculum.

 

I was highlighting the fact that the IT industry has changed, and not that GCSEs existed in 1967. The fact that this change has happened is reflected in the ICT exams and the material that they cover. Again though, how many NTs take the exams compared to NTs? We are only a small fraction of a percent of the population and, while in an ideal world everything would be equal, we don't live in an ideal world. In this particular case taking the ICT exam wouldn't mean anything anyway as it's not a pre-requisite for A-levels or even degree.

 

Besides all of that I can't remember Bagpuss ever saying that her son is AS...

[Canopus]

I was highlighting the fact that the IT industry has changed, and not that GCSEs existed in 1967. The fact that this change has happened is reflected in the ICT exams and the material that they cover. Again though, how many NTs take the exams compared to NTs? We are only a small fraction of a percent of the population and, while in an ideal world everything would be equal, we don't live in an ideal world. In this particular case taking the ICT exam wouldn't mean anything anyway as it's not a pre-requisite for A-levels or even degree.

 

Besides all of that I can't remember Bagpuss ever saying that her son is AS...

 

The content of the ICT GCSE changes with the changes in hardware and software technology, and situations using computers. However, the style of the exam questions has also changed as well in line with government requirements. The IGCSE exams cover the same subject material as the GCSE exams, but the style of the exam questions is closer to that of the O Level than the GCSE. I probably know a bit more than you do when it comes to exams and qualifications because of my involvement with tutoring and the HE community.

[Canopus]

If this whole Maths/Science thing is making your kiddo think, hang on a mo, I didn't want to be doing any of that rubbish! I just want to work with computers! Then I would suggest instead that he goes for a Business Studies/ICT route. In this instance getting as many of the more accessible computing qualifications seems to be a good idea along with getting decent A Levels and a degree. I've only looked briefly into this area so I don't really know what I'm talking about/how to spell things but qualifications like the European Computer Driving Licence (ECDL), CLAIT/CLAIT Plus are a possibility as well as the Microsoft Desktop qualifications which do deal more with installing software and providing user support.

 

Degree courses in computer science and software engineering usually want a maths A Level but they don't require science A Levels. Many don't even require a computing or ICT A Level, but have a preference towards people with it or similar qualifications. There are no hard and fast entry requirements for degrees in IT or combined business studies/IT and similar subjects.

 

At this stage though not worrying too much and picking a good balance of subjects are more important than defining your career path down to the minute details. Keep options open and try to focus on getting a C grade in Maths & English GCSE. It's not the end of the world if these can't be achieved but they do seem to be an absolute must for an awful lot of employers.

 

It is also important to think about whether to go into a 'pure' computing career or a career involving computers in a particular application. For example, the chemical industry is a heavy user of computers so studying computing in conjunction with chemistry would be ideal for a career in this industry. Even companies developing software prefer to have people who know about the industry in which the software will be used. For example, a company that develops software for investment banking will prefer its developers have a knowledge of banking and finance.

[Bagpuss]

He could email his questions to the computer dept at the local 6th form/FE college, point out that he's forward planning and ask their advice on careers.

Lots of computer people seem happy to communicate through text rather than face-to-face.

 

Thanks Bard, what a smashing idea

[Bagpuss]

Given that I pretty much regret 99% of what I say at one point or another, I'm not going to let it spoil my day

Oh yes, definitely one for Emily there. Women's problems and...err...things? Err...erm...oh look at the time...I've just remembered that I've got something very interesting and important to do over there <sound of panicky man running away at great speed>

 

[Bagpuss]

Don't know if anyone else has mentioned it, but my DS did a GNVQ in ICT, which is the equivalent to 4 GCSEs.

 

He did it at his residesi special school, but I think most 16 year olds would probably do it at a mainstream FE college.

 

Boho

 

Thanks Bid <'>

[Bagpuss]

Hehehehe Baggy, leave him alone he's only little!

 

We are both here if any of you lot (kids and guinea pigs included) ever need an ear to bend, though being a couple of weirdos you might end up worse off than where you started

 

Don't know anything about computing GCSEs and all that malarky but can only reiterate what Neil said for the job requirements bit. Having done a fair amount of job searching on Neil's behalf it's true that a degree and the Microsoft certificates are sought after. Where jobs aren't advertising for a junior role (i.e. straight out of university) they are usually asking for at least 2 years experience so it's not a huge requirement but it's worth not ignoring also.

 

My non-computer related advice would be to say first and foremost pick the subjects you enjoy, even if they aren't your best subjects (as someone else said above). A Level choices are more important (but not make or break) so I would aim to achieve a nice balance between subjects that would be useful in the future and those which you enjoy doing.

 

Again, having looked at university courses (musing going into computers to realise my true Aspie potential myself....only to remember I'm utterly useless at Maths/understanding technical things) A Level Maths and an A Level Science (though not Biology obv) did seem to be asked for more than A Level ICT/Computing.

 

If this whole Maths/Science thing is making your kiddo think, hang on a mo, I didn't want to be doing any of that rubbish! I just want to work with computers! Then I would suggest instead that he goes for a Business Studies/ICT route. In this instance getting as many of the more accessible computing qualifications seems to be a good idea along with getting decent A Levels and a degree. I've only looked briefly into this area so I don't really know what I'm talking about/how to spell things but qualifications like the European Computer Driving Licence (ECDL), CLAIT/CLAIT Plus are a possibility as well as the Microsoft Desktop qualifications which do deal more with installing software and providing user support.

 

At this stage though not worrying too much and picking a good balance of subjects are more important than defining your career path down to the minute details. Keep options open and try to focus on getting a C grade in Maths & English GCSE. It's not the end of the world if these can't be achieved but they do seem to be an absolute must for an awful lot of employers.

 

Emily

xxx

 

Thanks Emily <'> Are you and Neil available for babysitting duties? Please start stocking up on pokemon figures I can't imagine anyone better to have our girlies ..............bet Neil has just gone really pale hasn't he? DS has just got home from school, worrying about what to ask at the careers evening. DH keeps talking positively about a career in the forces hoping DS will leave home at 16 and we can downsize the house

[Bagpuss]

Thanks for your imput too Canopus

[TheNeil]

I probably know a bit more than you do when it comes to exams and qualifications because of my involvement with tutoring and the HE community.

 

And I probably know a bit more than you do when it comes to the IT industry because of me actually having been in it for the past decade.

[Canopus]

And I probably know a bit more than you do when it comes to the IT industry because of me actually having been in it for the past decade.

 

I'm not disputing you in any way although my background is electronic engineering as opposed to computer science.

 

One of my previous software development jobs required writing a software package to control a particular piece of test equipment. It required knowledge of a specialist area of electronics as well as software engineering and programming.

[badonkadonk]

Canopus I really don't understand why you have quoted me above, your comments have nothing to do with what you have quoted.

 

Regardless you are picking at what I have said and saying that you don't need an A Level in Science to do a Computing course at university as if that is what I implied. I didn't. I said that, from the courses I had looked at, it seemed to be asked for more (alot of the time) than a qualification in ICT. Asked for and required are not the same thing.

 

For example....York University explaining why they require specific qualifications

 

Nottingham University requirements They make clear at the bottom of the list that if Computer Science isn't present then it is advisable for another Science subject to be.

 

This was the point I was making, I never said you must have both Maths and Science, I said those were the two subjects that were asked for more (from what I've seen only) rather than a qualification in Computing or ICT. Like I said above, asked for and required are two different things.

 

I wasn't actually debating the ins and outs of the entry requirements for a Computing degree, I have little to no interest in the flipping things. I was merely trying to help Bagpuss and her son by providing extra information to them so that they can choose the best GCSE options for him.

 

Sorry Baggy, don't mean to hijack the thread, gonna leave it well alone now as I don't really have any more advice. I hope that at least you understand what I was trying to say in my last post?

 

Emily

xxx

[TheNeil]

I'm not disputing you in any way although my background is electronic engineering as opposed to computer science.

You stated your 'qualifications'...I merely stated mine as a matter of common courtesy and as I assumed that you felt that you needed to clear up some sort of confusion regarding whether or not you knew what you were taking about.

 

If, however, you feel as though you need to justify or qualify your position again in the future then please feel free to.

[Mumble]

people who don't have the faintest idea what microcode, bit shifting, signal bounceback, infinite loops and all manner of technical doohickeys mean.

I know, I know *jumps round with hand in air*

 

Microcode - iccle, wickle cutey wooty little bits of code (segments really) that you keep in a cage a fed carrot pieces to and make 'ahh' sounds at when it shuffles around.

bit shifting - not so cute - occurs when Mr GG doesn't have his horsey bits fitted properly and the metal bit moves around in his mouth

signal bounceback - this is one of those cunning things like the fridge light. The signal man in his box is convinced he pulled the signal down to let the train go but when he turns his back it slyly bounces back and the train can't go causing all manner of arguments between Mr Signal Operator and Mr train driver (OK - or mrs ...)

infinate loops - erm, aren't all loops infinate? - what gets confusing is when you try so extend out each infinate radius to create infinate infinities - drove my dear old friend Mr G mad

 

Am I right? Can I have a silver star?

[bid]

I was merely trying to help Bagpuss and her son by providing extra information to them so that they can choose the best GCSE options for him.

 

I think that's what everyone in this thread is trying to do??

 

Boho

[Mumble]

I was merely trying to help Bagpuss and her son by providing extra information to them so that they can choose the best GCSE options for him.

I think that's what everyone in this thread is trying to do??

 

I wasn't!!!

[bid]

There's always one!!

 

Boho