Problem in school

[KateBall]

Had an incident in school yesterday. Sorry if this long winded. DS goes on bus to school. I turned up also yesterday to see one of the teachers about a note my ds had home which he got a bit flustered with (they are encouraging them to do a fantasy football league and he got all muddled with filling it in - not sure if this is very appropriate for them but that's another issue). Anyway as it was raining the whole school were in a small hall - very noisy, chaotic and out of the corner of my eye I saw HT calling over ds and telling him off for kicking another child. I told her that I had already made it clear that ds could not cope with this chaotic and noisy environment. She got annoyed with me and I was also at this time telling her the only reason he's chosen to kick someone (usually he hits) is because he's been kicked by another child repeatedly over last weeks and they do nothing about it. Anyway that's not the main crux of my complaint either - I'm getting there sorry. When ds got home I asked him why he kicked the other lad x and he said - "don't know.......... because y was running around being silly and I felt "temperly"". i.e. exactly as I thought - too much for his senses and he lashed out at the nearest one there. Same happened on the bus home last week when the school changed his routine of where he sits on the bus - he spat at a very young child and parents complained. Got to the bottom of that one too when they accepted they hadn't put him in usual place on bus and other children were teasing him at the time. But the point is after a very good year last year - abysmal the year before I now feel back to square one. I 've written to HT and told her that they continue to put ds in known stressful situations he can't cope with then its their fault and not his that he reacts and I don't want to hear that he has been punished. Now here's the real cruncher - I've also told them he will not be coming to school when it rains until they can put in place a proper strategy to protect him (and the other children from him) on these occasions. All it should involve is taking him into the classroom with another child perhaps ahead of the others rather than leaving him to suffer in all that melee. Its not that I havn't pointed out these problems before - I used to bring him in to school late in the mornings to avoid all this but since he's gone on the bus he has about 15 mins to hang around off the bus before school starts.

 

I haven't had a response yet to my note its only gone in this morning - but I'm sitting her terrified. Someone please tell me I either need to get in an apology quick - or give me the strength to persevere.

 

Also - in my head I know they're just going to say something like - we don't have enough resources to prevent these situations arising. Can I legitimately say - that's their problem and not mine but I expect them to deal with him in the manner appropriate to his disorder and if they don't I want a Statutory Assessment carried out because they clearly cannot cope on SEND+ if his behavioural issues are returning.

[Bard]

You are right, you are attempting to avoid a more serious incident developing..being pre emptive.

Short post, at work

Be strong

[thebuzzer]

Hi Kate

 

Be strong!!!! I think you are totally right, and protecting the rights of your son. What these schools don't seem to grasp is the very basic fact that they are dealing with a child with ASD!! Stressfull Trigger = Meltdown. Boring as it may be for them (or just toooooo much flipping effort!) they have to be consistent and use a bit of savy and think right raining today x has a special need that he cannot cope with being in the hall at that time, find a classroom etc....

 

I am in a similar situation as you, not with the bus, but with the schools reaction to my DS's behaviour. They are more keen on punishing him for things than managing his trigger situations so that he doesn't act inappropriately. My son has just started year 1, how old is yours?

 

I am having a meeting at 3pm with his teacher (lovely lady - there is a God!) and his HT. I am going to insist he gets more support or I am going for a Statutory Assessment. I feel every day he hasn't got the right/enough support is another day lost that he could be achieving sp? lots.

 

Does your DS get easily distracted? mine will make silly noises to get the attention of the other children or keep touching them or their work. I was helping in the class on Monday pm and could see what DS would do as he was too near another boy on the table so I nicely suggested the other boy move up so he had more room. If I had asked DS it would have erupted, and everything was fine. Its little things like that. I know his trigger points and can prevent them causing him or others distress, but like your DS's school they don't bother GRRRRRR

 

Sorry if I have ended up talking about my problems, but just wanted you to know you are not alone!!!!

 

Clare

[KateBall]

Thanks Bard - appreciate you taking the time to post.

Thanks Clare. My ds is now in year 5. The teacher they had last year seemed to cope well with him - taking him in to class before school started. Very little problems and she has been very supportive to me and even now listens if I have any issues. The teacher he has now is the SENCO and because of class re-arrangments this is actually the 3rd year she's had him out of the 6 he's been at school. I like her - she's hard working but seems to have too much on her plate and she's not the sort I can talk to easily. They seem to have conquered a lot of problems in class - yes he is easily distracted - he sits on his own now I think. He does refuse to work sometimes. He does make silly noises and do silly things cos he likes it when the others laugh. The SENCO does seem to understand his continuing needs but they also forget or take their eye off the ball. The trouble is its taken me a long time to make them realise that their responsibility as teachers doesn't end when he's out of the class. They just seemed to leave him to the playtime supervisors - especially a problem at lunchtime as they are not trained (as far as I can gather). If he's not in the classroom being taught - then that's not her responsibility - that's my perception rightly or wrongly. You can't turn a blind eye to our children's problems just cos you're not in the classroom with them.

 

Trouble is I had all these problems in the first 3 years and thought they were being managed. I thought they were on board and understood. I am just so disheartened that I'm back to square one. Don't make the same mistake I have - keep pushing, always assume that they are not necessarily doing what they should and keep an eye on them. We owe it to our children. "I also told HT that they "arrogantly think they know best how to deal with my ds and ignore whatever I say" Oh heck - I do mean it though. I just think they need to recognise that having managed meltdowns, behaviours and anticipated scenarios to avoid them we are experts in our field too!!

Good luck this afternoon Clare

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I think you've made some very valid points which are not unreasonable. The school have a duty of care to your son. In particular, because we're constantly told about inclusion - that's all well and good, but kids with special needs need appropriate support to help them succeed. They also need understanding. NAS run free courses for teachers - my son's teachers both attended which was great and it gave them a better understanding of how to understand him and recognise if he was behaving badly for a reason ie not coping rather than just being badly behaved.

 

I think the fact that your son has lashed out (you gave a couple of instances) is an issue for school to get their heads around in that whilst this is not acceptable behaviour and nor should it be excused as such, but they need to address the reasons/circumstances of why these incidents occurred. Your son needs help to recognise that this isn't acceptable behaviour, but he also needs this backed up with behavioural and anxiety management strategies to help him cope and make sense of the environment he's in.

 

Sounds like the school are ignorance. To a point they cannot be blamed, but perhaps you could turn things around and in a non-critical, but constructive way, offer them some publications to read, let them know about NAS courses, etc.

 

Best of luck (you're not neurotic - you're just doing what a caring mother would do!).

 

Caroline.

[thebuzzer]

Hi Kate

 

What a minefield this schooling malarky is!!!! You are so right that they should realise we are experts in our childs situation. I do feel sometimes I am made out to be the overprotective neurotic mother, but I just want the best for my son. If I don't fight his corner no one else will!

 

Talking of SENCOs, my son's one is lovely, but sadly leaving at Xmas to take up a Deputy Head post elsewhere (lucky school). We had they school newsletter on Mon notifying us that the new SENCO will be Mrs 'D' who was my son's reception teachers, is totally condescending to both the children and parents, admitted to me earlier in the year "I have no experience or knowledge of Autisim" and basically is totally useless. Saw another mum quickly this morning her DS is year 3 and waiting for dx of Aspegers (his symptoms scream AS) and she was appalled too. Oh joy. Well if she thinks I am putting up with her hairbrained, abusive punishements to my DS again after Xmas she has got another thing coming. I will be needing your supportive words when I have to face her. And she looks like a Disney princess but is really the wicked witch! (sorry just being cruel now ooops!)

 

I will wait to here how it goes with your HT. Good Luck. Take care

 

 

Clare

[KateBall]

Hi

 

I think you've made some very valid points which are not unreasonable. The school have a duty of care to your son. In particular, because we're constantly told about inclusion - that's all well and good, but kids with special needs need appropriate support to help them succeed. They also need understanding. NAS run free courses for teachers - my son's teachers both attended which was great and it gave them a better understanding of how to understand him and recognise if he was behaving badly for a reason ie not coping rather than just being badly behaved.

 

I think the fact that your son has lashed out (you gave a couple of instances) is an issue for school to get their heads around in that whilst this is not acceptable behaviour and nor should it be excused as such, but they need to address the reasons/circumstances of why these incidents occurred. Your son needs help to recognise that this isn't acceptable behaviour, but he also needs this backed up with behavioural and anxiety management strategies to help him cope and make sense of the environment he's in.

 

Sounds like the school are ignorance. To a point they cannot be blamed, but perhaps you could turn things around and in a non-critical, but constructive way, offer them some publications to read, let them know about NAS courses, etc.

 

Best of luck (you're not neurotic - you're just doing what a caring mother would do!).

 

Caroline.

 

Thanks Caroline. I agree - ds does need to know its not acceptable behaviour but I just feel they keep setting him up to fail and then blame him. Recently they had worked on him to get him to call on a member of staff if he was feeling frustrated and felt like lashing out. It started to work actually and they began to get occasions when he would tell the HT even or anyone on duty that he was having a problem with a situation. I am just wondering if they are now relying on that too much and so putting him in situations hoping he'll tell them if he has a problem. I think that is unrealistic to think it will work all the time??

 

Last week I told the school SENCO and HT and SEN/LSA about Ian Jordans conference he posted about here recently. They just didn't want to know and the HT said they do enough courses on autism and special needs etc. I should have taken the opportunity to say then "you should know better then" but didn't at the time.

[KateBall]

If I don't fight his corner no one else will!

 

I have said that to myself so many times - that just keeps me going. I try not to care if they think I'm being confrontational (that's what they say I am whenever I complain) but how can I be anything else when they are condescending.

 

Talking of SENCOs, my son's one is lovely, but sadly leaving at Xmas to take up a Deputy Head post elsewhere (lucky school). We had they school newsletter on Mon notifying us that the new SENCO will be Mrs 'D' who was my son's reception teachers, is totally condescending to both the children and parents, admitted to me earlier in the year "I have no experience or knowledge of Autisim" and basically is totally useless.

At least all her knowledge will then be up to date and you might find that she'll go on loads of courses and read up loads of material and become quite interested and supportive.

 

Was that a pig I just saw fly by the window

Edited October 10, 2007 by KateBall

[Cat]

You are 100% in the right here so no going back on anything you have done. From reading your post the Head sounds like many Heads I have had the misfortune of speaking to on behalf of parents. Some of these people know just how to project themselves so that it is everyone else, and never they, who are in the wrong or at fault.

 

Should you receive a negative respone then I think that I would be reminding them about the Disability Discrimination Act which says that anyone with a disability should not be treat less favourably than their peer group, I would suggest that your son is, and that they should be making reasonable adjustments, which they are not.

 

I think that you have several unresolved issues with this school which need addressing you have made a good start today

 

Cat

Edited October 10, 2007 by Cat

[pumpkinpie]

i do think its very important to be firm with school ,but equally dont give them the opportunity to just label you as a problem parent.

Clearly there is an issue at school , especially regarding support for sen kids at breaks and lunch times. Prehaps you could speak to the sen governor about this to see if its something they can influence( if you see that talking to the head has not done anything).

Edited October 10, 2007 by pumpkinpie

[KateBall]

i do think its very important to be firm with school ,but equally dont give them the opportunity to just label you as a problem parent.

Clearly there is an issue at school , especially regarding support for sen kids at breaks and lunch times. Prehaps you could speak to the sen governor about this to see if its something they can influence( if you see that talking to the head has not done anything).

 

Funny you should mention sen govr as I was thinking about that myself. I fully expect to get some sort of letter or note back from HT which will be defensive and not helpful and that being the case I think my next step may be to speak to the govr. Trouble is I do recognize that they have made efforts and I do appreciate those but surely I'm not expected therefore to ignore it when they do things wrong and just put up with it. I'm always expected to be grateful for what a good job their doing - its pointed out time and time again to me how hard they work and how much attention my ds gets. Its as if therefore I mustn't complain any further.

[KateBall]

OMG I don't believe it. DS just came home and the note I wrote to the HT was still pinned in his home/school book with a note from the class teacher saying she's had no problems in class. That's all. Still not dealing with the issue. No indication that the note was shown to the HT at all. Is this the way they should carry on. I now feel like saying that he's not going back to school at all until they can sort out their communication with us. I am in despair.

[Cat]

Funny you should mention sen govr as I was thinking about that myself. I fully expect to get some sort of letter or note back from HT which will be defensive and not helpful and that being the case I think my next step may be to speak to the govr. Trouble is I do recognize that they have made efforts and I do appreciate those but surely I'm not expected therefore to ignore it when they do things wrong and just put up with it. I'm always expected to be grateful for what a good job their doing - its pointed out time and time again to me how hard they work and how much attention my ds gets. Its as if therefore I mustn't complain any further.

 

The answer to your question (from my point of view here and no one elses of course) is yes you are expected to ignore anything that goes wrong, because the school will believe that they have now done everything posible to accomodate you and your son. As you have said they point out to you time and time again how hard they have worked and how much they have already done. But what they really do need to take on board here, is that having a child in their school with autism means that everything is on-going and because of the very nature of the condition, there are going to be times when they have to revisit and reasses where they have been and where they are at now. I hope this makes sense?

 

In an ideal world we should be able to enjoy an good relationship with school and in fact all professionals but we do not live in an ideal world. This school may well be doing a little to help your son but let's not forget that that is their job, and again in my opinion, they should not be continually telling you how wonderful they are being because they are using this as a form of blackmail - not nice of them at all.

 

If I were you I would resend the letter tomorrow with a note in his book first of all asking if the note was given to the Head and if not could it please be handed over to them. You need to know if the Head as seen the note and chosen to ignore it. If yes then I would write not only to the SEN Governor but also the Chair of Governors and make them aware of the problems you are having. You need not play to heavily on disability discrimination but I would certainly mention it. You must however ask for a response to your letter and I would suggest that you give them a timespan. You could even ask to meet with the SEN Governor to discuss your concerns. If you don't fight for your son no one else is going to.

 

OK you do not want to rock too many boats and your son has to attend that school. They will be fully aware of this and again it could be a form of blackmail and they are sitting hoping that you are going to back down.

 

Cat

Edited October 10, 2007 by Cat

[Karen A]

<'> <'> Sorry I have no answers but so much wanted to let you know others struggle with exactly the same things.

No it is not ok.The school should be making reasonable adjustments to enable your child to cope in all areas of the curiculum-not just classroom time.

I dread wet play and other factors that change the usual routine-anticipating that Ben will be frustrated and stressed after school.

I am fed up with explaining.I also feel that the minute I take my eye off the ball things drift again.

The reply that my OH and I most often comment on was the one where we were told the ''issue '' was resolved because HT had ''talked with us at some length''.We comment that she could work for the UN as a negotaitor-others don't need to agree as long as one has talked at length. Karen.

[Karen A]

''[Trouble is I had all these problems in the first 3 years and thought they were being managed. I thought they were on board and understood. I am just so disheartened that I'm back to square one. Don't make the same mistake I have - keep pushing, always assume that they are not necessarily doing what they should and keep an eye on them. We owe it to our children. "I also told HT that they "arrogantly think they know best how to deal with my ds and ignore whatever I say" Oh heck - I do mean it though. I just think they need to recognise that having managed meltdowns, behaviours and anticipated scenarios to avoid them we are experts in our field too!!

Good luck this afternoon Clare

''

 

 

 

I wanted to add that Ben is also in year 5 and you put so well how I feel.Sorry quote did not come out right and I cannot edit it but I think you will get the gist. Karen.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Karen A

[Karen A]

Now I have finished ranting.

It may be worth writing a letter and handing it to the HT yourself.The HT can decide how to respond.If the issue is with a time outside of lesson time then it is a management issue.Karen.

[KateBall]

Thanks Cat and Karen. I'm just so despondent about it. I've taken a copy of the letter back up to school with a note to say that my ds will not be in school until they can bother to communicate with me - or words to that effect. I know its probably wrong but I just can't face him being there when they don't really give a da** and that surely will make them have to speak to me. Also left a message for Parent Partnership to call me. Anyone used them? Are they any good in disputes?

[palgem]

hi

we have tried parent partnership and they were next to useless they should be independant but they are employed bye the lea so will not fight their employers ? some will but very much a lottery as with everthing and if they bother to return your call ? this is very difficult but you need to stick to it they will try every trick in the book to silence you . only you can get what is right for your child and only you know your child and their well being has to be your priority don,t let them brow beat you into summission , try and stay within the boundarys don,t sink to their level keep going till they listen make enough noises in the correct manner and they wiil take notice .

 

hope you get wre you need to be sooner rather than later but nothing in life is easy and you should know this as a parent of a child with asd better than anyone not much help i know but you have our deepest sympathy but we have had this time and time again and i don,t think it will ever go away while schools fail to understand eventhe basic levels of our children and there needs all are different and no two rules are identicalbut variations of the same can sometimes work ?

 

bye paul

[paulathomson]

i have fought with my childs school for over a year about how they 'manage' him and his behaviour and have been the pariah, the parent who is always in and out complaining... have to say that not only is it bad for your child but also your own mental health.

i am currently struggling with my own sanity because of these similar difficulties.. getting the school to listen instead of just saying'' hes been fine''. then he comes home and he pours it all out to me.

 

even after his dx and after the consultant personally spoke to the headteacher about him and his needs.. they still refused to accept he has any problems..

 

final straw and i got in touch with local mp.. within a day i had headteacher, year head, son's teacher and senco speaking with me. they have a meeting set up on monday with about 10 people from multi-agency attending..i also have someone attending to support me ( previous experience of them intimidating me)

 

contacting the mp was by far the best thing i have done.. it tells the school that i know they have made some errors and i will not let them get away with it..

 

my advice to anyoone who has tried to communicate with school for an extended period is to write a diary and get in touch with mp.

[KateBall]

hi

we have tried parent partnership and they were next to useless

 

bye paul

 

Oh heck - better not hope for too much there then.

[KateBall]

my advice to anyoone who has tried to communicate with school for an extended period is to write a diary and get in touch with mp.

 

Wow - I hadn't even considered the mp.

 

Do schools have training in how to be dismissive to parents - how to be condescending, patronising and inconsiderate. Or is it the fact that most of these teachers haven't actually lived in the real world ever. School to college (to uni) to school. They haven't got a clue how to talk to real people with needs. Just ranting now - got to go and calm down

[cmuir]

During my son's first hour (let alone day!) I was frogmarched into the headteacher's office and told in no uncertain that if he behaved like he did that day, then I would be called to take him out of school. I was livid and reminded the school that they were made fully aware of what to expect during what would undoubtedly be a difficult period for him. I also told them that they have a duty of care and that we keep hearing about inclusion for SEN kids, but they need to do their bit to help them succeed. I actually had to phone two specialists (SPECTRUM - specialist teacher and someone from the challenging behaviour team). They both sat up the back of my son's classroom alternating over a three week period. What they observed was a very anxious little boy. That was the turning point. Things aren't perfect but he's managing with support. He also now has 1-2-1 full-time support. To get all of that it was damn hard work and aside from the fact I to a point objected to having to do a lot of legwork myself, kiddo is my no 1 priority. As it turns out, I've found the school to be much more supportive.

 

Every situation is different, but I'm of the opinion that pester power can get you a long way. Clearly the school aren't handling things as they should. They've made a start in identifying a strategy by encouraging your son to tell them when he needs help, which is great. But that's just it - it's a start. I really think that often teachers/headteachers see lots of kids who are simply very badly behaved because of poor upbringing. It saddens me to think that our kids with genuine special needs, who, granted, when stressed often show anxiety/stress by behaving badly are tarred with the same stick. All you can do is try and persevere. If you get nowhere fast, then there's other options. IPSEA and NAS can help. Also in Scotland, we have Educational Psychologists. I know I'm seen as a pain in the rear, but I phone her when I need to and I've found that she's very helpful in terms of getting external professionals eg EPs and OTs to help identify my son's needs with a view to gaining appropriate support. Do you have an EP you could contact or an equivalent?

 

You're obviously a fighter (because you've had to be like most of us on this forum). Keep going. You can only do your best.

 

Best wishes

 

Caroline.

[palgem]

hi

we have done the mp who was most helpfull and he did get things moving the thing is when we complained we went the whole we had letters and copies of letters going eveywhere school, governers , lea ,mp the trick is to get them chasing each other , you seem to get a more proactive response this way and always keep copys of everthing we have a huge folder and refer back to it regulary as they still try to back track ,record everthing take minutes of everthing no matter how trivual . you can make a difference

yes it can be all to much and yes it does drive you nuts but why be a door mat your child suffers enough just getting by each day why let ignorance make it worse every child does matter no matter were they are from or what life has dealt them they are entitled to a fare education at a level befitting them who has the right to decide otherwise ? they should be allowed the oppertunity to reach there full potential and not be discriminated against

bye paul

[Eva]

Hi,

 

quick reply - should be getting boys ready for school.

 

The principal at our school recently told me that I was 'just a parent' in regards to comments I made about how using different substitute teachers is very unsettling for my son, (the class teacher is absent a lot). She told me that I was not a peer or a collegue (sp) and I have crossed the line. Talk about dismissive!

 

Keep up the good fight. It's taken me this long to realise that I am totally responsible for my son's integration at this friggin school, sigh.

 

Keep up informed - I'm waiting for a reply back from our school too so know how you are feeling <'> <'> .

 

Cheers,

Eva

[Karen A]

Hi.I have found parent partnership very helpful although they do apppear variable depending on where you live.

It is worth phoning parent partnership to update them regarding the situation.

If you do not wish to return your child to school until you feel happy about appropriate support then it would be a good idea to think about how you may respond if the LEA or EWO contact you.

I withdrew Ben last year for a period as the HT was not demonstrating that she could provide a safe environment.

The EWO contacted us and we felt under pressure to work to resolve the situation.

If your child is stressed and not coping then it may be a good idea to talk to your GP and see if you can get a letter so that you have cover-it would prevent the situation where the LEA attempted to take action against you for not securing your child's attendance at school.

I know that probably sounds negative but I have learned form the experience of other parents on the forum.

ACE were very helpful when I phoned the helpline last year and you could phone them for advice.Karen.

[KateBall]

Thanks everyone. I spoke to Parent Partnership this morning and they gave me some pointers and will send info pack in post (that's a joke - what post?) Anyway I may consider asking for advisory teacher to go in. However the advisory teacher specialising in autistic children might not be available to the school she said ..........wait for it ...............because my ds doesn't have a diagnosis of autism. He has a diagnosis of communication disorder with autistic traits I said - yes but this might not be enough to enable him/her to come.

 

However I may be getting somewhere - I had a brief conversation with HT today and have a meeting set up tomorrow morning. She was fine on phone and we aired some stuff and perhaps things more positive. Will know more tomorrow. It seems the SENCO/class teacher is having a bad time at the moment.