Threats to kill themselves

[jlp]

Ds#1 (almost 8 with AS) has been threatening to do various things to himself for possibly the last year or so - when he's upset, he'll say he's going to get run over so he won't have to go to school. I tend to play this down and not give much of a reaction as he doesn't understand the finality of death or what he's saying and I don't want to make a bigger issue. He's says he wishes he was dead reasonably often.

 

Today we were talking about drugs and what they are (apparently one of the Star wars droids uses poison) and the conversation led onto how a little bit of something could make you better but a lot could kill you - I gave the example of Calpol. He said he was going to drink a whole bottle of calpol so he wouldn't have to go to school any more. I said that would be a shame as I love him and little brother piped up he loves him too and G said that's ok because we'll all end up in heaven together eventually.

 

Now I'm sure this is just 'silly' talk but now I have a terrible dread that he would do something stupid like drink calpol (It'll be put elsewhere), not because he's suicidal or depressed but because he wouldn't understand the full impact of what could happen - and doesn't want to go to school.

 

Should we be running off to the Child and Family Unit in panic or are these fairly normal things to say? I suppose he's been saying things like this for a while but not actually done anything? I normally take these particular things he says with a pinch of salt and give very little reaction but he's unnerved me a bit with the calpol.

[Clare63]

My son also talks this way and I find it heart breaking, I have told them at camhs but they have told me not to worry its him expressing how frustrated he is. However this is not so easy when your child describes in detail how they intend to end it all and I have to take it seriously, by keeping an open mind and an eye on the situation. He hates blood and has a very low pain threshold so I am relatively confident he's not going to do anything silly, but the drugs thing is a concern and ensure everything is locked away.

I think you will find this is quite common, but still no reason to ignore it but just be aware, like you are already doing. i would certainly mention it at your next appointment/ visit with camhs, GP etc

<'> <'> <'>

Clare x x x

[Caroline-]

Dear jlp, can i just say that you are certainly not alone with this <'>

 

My son only yesterday turned round to his daddy & said 'you wouldn't be upset if i died would you daddy, you'd have a party wouldn't you' it is heart breaking to hear them speak like this i know & it just proves how low & frustrated they can become. We constantly reasure our son that he is loved very much by all of us & how much he is needed & wanted by us. It is worth talking to someone about this though. Sometimes the medication a child or adult is on can have a side effect of bad thoughts.

 

Caroline xx

[baddad]

At the risk of sounding completely horrible, I tend to call my own son's bluff when he does this. When he is really upset, he cries or comes to me for comfort or gets angry. Usually, when he talks about dying it's because he's looking for a certain reaction from me, and he's being manipulative.

Of course, I'm not saying that's the case for all kids - and even for Ben there are times when he's genuinely expressing 'grief' in this way - but human nature - AS/NT or otherwise - predicts that when a child learns that a particular behaviour produces a particular response, that knowledge will be used to his or her advantage.

Picking out the 'genuine' times from the 'reward seeking' times can be hard, but for my own part I worry more when number one son 'loses it' or cries quietly than when he makes these kinds of declarations.

To anyone who does judge that harshly, I'd just say that anyone who's met #1 son would say he doesn't look too bad on it, and reiterate that i'm not suggesting this as a 'blanket policy' for anyone elses child!

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

OK, can only post from our experience, which is still pretty raw so apologies if I upset anyone, it's not intended.

 

My DS expressed self-hatred and 'minor' self-harm (e.g. hitting his head, etc) from the age of about 6.

 

All the way through CAMHS told me not to take it seriously, it was an expression of frustration, etc.

 

Until at 14 it had escalated into really serious self-harm and a complete breakdown. Then CAMHS turned round and said if he didn't get adequate support he would end up in a psychiatric ward.

 

My feeling is that it should have been taken seriously from the very beginning, and them maybe my DS wouldn't have spent 10 years in a completely unsuitable environment (mainstream school), medicated to 'help him cope'

 

So, personally, I would take it seriously and do everything possible to identify and change the underlying reasons for the threats, not just accept it as an expression of frustration or anxiety.

 

Bid

[Nic m]

Jlp,

 

This is such a difficult one isn't it? My daughter started expressing herself in this way when she was about this age and it escalated at age eight.

At this point i gave up work and concentrated on trying to make changes to reduce the stresses in her life. School was very difficult at this time and she herself was aware that she was different and was upset by this.

It is very hard to offer advice except to say you know your son best so go with your gut feeling.

In our situation, i did take it seriously but i felt she was saying these things as an expression of how bad she was feeling.At this point she had i think one of the worst teachers i have ever come accross and the stress on her was tremendous.

I gave up work ,,changed her diet she was diagnosed, and the combination of all of these things along with being two years older and i hardly ever hear anything like this and i am more likely to call her bluff now.

I was devastated to hear my baby saying these things but as time has gone on she is finding new ways to express herself and i wish this for you.

If i can offer any hope it is that i was able to start my own business this year and although there have been a couple of hiccups she is coping well with the changes.

Good luck and best wishes

 

I hope you find a way through this that suits your son.

 

Nicola

[krystaltps]

At the risk of sounding completely horrible, I tend to call my own son's bluff when he does this. When he is really upset, he cries or comes to me for comfort or gets angry. Usually, when he talks about dying it's because he's looking for a certain reaction from me, and he's being manipulative.

Of course, I'm not saying that's the case for all kids - and even for Ben there are times when he's genuinely expressing 'grief' in this way - but human nature - AS/NT or otherwise - predicts that when a child learns that a particular behaviour produces a particular response, that knowledge will be used to his or her advantage.

Picking out the 'genuine' times from the 'reward seeking' times can be hard, but for my own part I worry more when number one son 'loses it' or cries quietly than when he makes these kinds of declarations.

To anyone who does judge that harshly, I'd just say that anyone who's met #1 son would say he doesn't look too bad on it, and reiterate that i'm not suggesting this as a 'blanket policy' for anyone elses child!

 

L&P

 

BD

 

I'm in the same boat with C on this one. Usually when he's threatening to kill himself (in the most [insert word that means a lot of blood is involved - won't let me use it without blanking it out as expletive though not meant in that way] and gory ways imaginable), it's when he's in full-blown rage just short of meltdown-mode. He's looking for a reaction - one where I panic and beg him to spare his life. I simply inform him that I would miss him and leave it at that. His leaving home threats ARE genuine though, so that's when we lock up doors and windows. However, sometimes I can ask him (quite matter-of-factly) if he could postpone leaving home till tomorrow as I don't have the energy to find him tonight - he's usually quite happy to go and pack in preparation and by the time tomorrow comes, the anger has passed and he's forgotten he's supposed to be going. Maybe you could try this tactic with the "suicide threats".

I always worry more when C intoverts his anger/frustration and goes into non-communicative, hiding mode - he's not venting his emotions that way.

I would try to play it down whilst being quietly vigilant and watching for reactions. Each child is different, as Baddad says.

Edited October 25, 2007 by krystaltps

[Cat]

Also been there done that and as the signature says am still wearing the T Shirt. My middle son tried to jump out of a hospital window to escape the medics who were busy getting it wrong about him, then tried to throw himself under a bus to end it all and we had to hide knives and tablets for two years.

 

Now while I did not overplay any of this I was worried sick inside and took all of this very seriously. How can you not? He was not looking for a reaction he was looking for a way out. It has got better for him although he still gets very depressed from time to time.

 

My youngest son also talks of throwing himself off a cliff or killing himself when he is upset and distressed. Again I never overplay the situation but I do store what he is saying and how he is acting in my head. He does self harm to a certain degree when he is very stressed and again I know that he is not looking for a reaction. He has told me why he hurts himself and this is because the pain he feels from beating himself around the head literally, is better than the way his head feels inside at that time. I would rather know what is making my sons act the way they do than second guess that it is attention seeking.

 

It would be silly to say that young people with AS never carry out their threats to kill themselves as the suicide rate for young people with AS is high and for this reason alone it is better to be safe than sorry imo

 

Cat

[bid]

Well said, Cat

 

Bid

[carrieq]

DS has also made these kind of threats since he was about 5 yrs. He has made 2 quite serious attempts, both at his old school, one on a viewing platform by a road bridge and the other with a plastic bag. We got an emergency appointments after both and were told he was not in a suicidal state but this would probably carry on throughout his life and as such would need careful watching. He has now moved school and so far nothing like this has happened yet but he is in a very small class so has the care he needs.

 

He regularly when quite calm says dh hates him and would like him to be dead and that he wants to be dead. As has been said, on the surface we brush over this and don't draw attention to it but under the surface it breaks my heart and scares me to death.

 

Carrie

[bid]

I am so frustrated by what I am reading here

 

It seems to me that nothing has changed or improved in the last 10 plus years.

 

I feel that the professionals have almost 'normalised' this behaviour for our children. I certainly remember feeling dismissed and as though I was over-reacting. But it isn't 'normal' for a child to verbalise these kinds of death threats and self-harm. It's amost as though we are expected to accept this as par for the course with the dx.

 

The only time my DS's mainstream secondary school took his self-harming seriously was when it happened on the school premises...suddenly it was a Health and Safety issue, and one of their arguments for not being able to meet his provision. While it 'just' happened at home we were meant to get on with it and stop making a fuss

 

Sorry, but Cat is so right about the suicide rate for young people with AS.

 

Bid

[Flora]

I agree with bid.

 

Bill has expressed these feelings since he was 8. They are nearly always when he is in the midst of a meltdown; however he has lately started to say the same things when he is in the quiet depths of depression and I find that far more worrying. I too have had these things more or less dismissed by CAMHS as 'normal and nothing to worry about'. He has never hurt himself seriously, but in the past has pulled his reading lamp off the wall to try and electrocute himself, damaged his cornea on purpose by poking himself in the eye, tried to jump out of a window and held a sharp knife to his chest. CAMHS are aware of this, as are the LEA, but it's my belief that unless these things are witnessed by these people they will never take them seriously.

 

for my own part, while I try not to overplay these incidents, and go down the reasurance route rather than pleading with him, I have to take them seriously. He's also told me that if it wasn't for the fact that he is frightened of pain he would kill himself, and has asked me on several occasions to do it for him

 

flora

[jlp]

I am so frustrated by what I am reading here

 

It seems to me that nothing has changed or improved in the last 10 plus years.

 

I feel that the professionals have almost 'normalised' this behaviour for our children. I certainly remember feeling dismissed and as though I was over-reacting. But it isn't 'normal' for a child to verbalise these kinds of death threats and self-harm. It's amost as though we are expected to accept this as par for the course with the dx.

 

The only time my DS's mainstream secondary school took his self-harming seriously was when it happened on the school premises...suddenly it was a Health and Safety issue, and one of their arguments for not being able to meet his provision. While it 'just' happened at home we were meant to get on with it and stop making a fuss

 

Sorry, but Cat is so right about the suicide rate for young people with AS.

 

Bid

 

I think that's part of the problem Bid, I don't know what's 'normal' and what's not. So far he hasn't done anything (actually just remembered he did stick a plastic bag over his head a month or so ago, but I was in the room).

 

He hates school and always has - however we've just got him a statement with full time 1-2-1 support and the reason we didn't change schools at that point was because he does have good friends who he adores and because we've already moved his school once (2 years ago) and the effect was long lasting and tramatic, he didn't cope well at all.

 

I know if I speak to the professionals that the are likely to say that it's an attention thing even though he doesn't get much overt attention for it, we stay very calm. I can't think of anyone (well maybe one but she's on maternity leave) who would take this seriously. I expect they will think we are over reacting and making a big song and a dance about this and therefore creating the problem ourselves.

 

After half term there's supposed to be a meeting regarding G's placement and I will discuss this there, there's also teasing going on at school which isn't being taken very seriously (as G retaliates) and this needs to be sorted really I think as he's dwelling on that these holidays.

[baddad]

It would be silly to say that young people with AS never carry out their threats to kill themselves as the suicide rate for young people with AS is high and for this reason alone it is better to be safe than sorry imo

 

Cat

 

Hi cat/all -

 

I totally agree, and hope that my post did not imply that I do trivialise my son's emotional support needs or those of any other child.

I did highlight that sometimes Ben verbalises genuine grief/distress in this way and that is always taken and responded to seriously. At other times his intentions are patenly manipulative, and i need to respond appropriately when that is the case too. That's not 'second guessing' that's knowing my son...

I think the danger of 'reinforcement' is in some ways as potentially damaging as indifference: a child who doesn't fully appreciate the very difficult concept of 'death' may be spurred on to increasingly dramatic and dangerous displays as controls are neccessarily added to circumvent them.

This kind of escalation is predicted in almost all areas of behaviour management, and is compounded by the sense of 'Juvenile Omnipotence' common to all adolescents, AS, ASD, NT or otherwise.

 

Self harm, depression, suicidal tendencies are all mental health issues. While there is a higher incidence of mental health issues (for all sorts of reasons) among those on the spectrum they are separate issues, and need to be treated accordingly.

 

Almost all young children and adolescents express themselves with these kinds of declarations. The intent of those declarations has to be judged by all of the factors surrounding and contributing to the situation.

 

This is a very difficult topic, and there are no 'one size fits all' solutions. I dug out this page on the NAS site - hope it's helpful:

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=239&a=2371

 

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

I think the danger of 'reinforcement' is in some ways as potentially damaging as indifference: a child who doesn't fully appreciate the very difficult concept of 'death' may be spurred on to increasingly dramatic and dangerous displays as controls are neccessarily added to circumvent them.

This kind of escalation is predicted in almost all areas of behaviour management, and is compounded by the sense of 'Juvenile Omnipotence' common to all adolescents, AS, ASD, NT or otherwise.

 

Why is taking seriously a child's suicidal behaviour and self-harm 'reinforcement'??

 

Anyone of us who has had to deal with serious self-harm and/or suicide attempts will know what I am trying to say.

 

This isn't a stamped foot and shouting 'I wish I was dead', these are not 'attention seeking' behaviours, they are serious, despairing acts by a child who is acutely distressed

 

Bid

Edited October 26, 2007 by bid

[KarenT]

Hi jlp

 

A couple of years back I mentioned to our mutual Child and Family bods that J was talking along the same lines and was told to ignore it, it was attention-seeking, it would go away. In J's case it has (mostly) but that's not because we ignored it but rather that we worked on increasing his ability to stay calm, and that's helped a lot as you know. As with others, J's outbursts usually happened in meltdown so with the gradual reduction in that level of anger we've also seen less desire to self harm.

 

I'd still make an appointment to see Child and Family so that it's on record that you've reported your concerns. Back it up in writing too, perhaps request the meeting by letter and state the reasons why, that G has expressed himself this way for a long time now and doesn't show any signs of letting up. Perish the thought, but if G does hurt himself intentionally in the future you then have a history to refer to and proof that your concerns should be taken seriously, and you could then request some form of intervention.

 

BTW, if you're talking about the person I'm thinking of I was told by her colleague that she'd be back from maternity leave after half term, so you might be able to contact her next week.

 

Chin up, thinking of you.

Karen

x

[Karen A]

Hi I thought I might have a go at finding some middle ground here

 

Many children whether NT or AS make threats to harm themselves at some point.It is very upsetting to deal with however for most children it is an expression of anger and frustration.I am not saying the child is not distressed however in this situation if an adult appears anxious and demonsrates that they are unable to cope it will only exacerbate the distress a child feels-so a layed back response or even humour may be the best option.

Some teenagers do self-harm and a very few attempt to kill themselves.A small number do kill themselves-however it is a small number.What is more many of those at risk do not tell anyone.

I for one feel that the response of mental health services to suicide and self-harm has improved in the last few years.Even in education there is better awareness that there was.

I speak as the sister of a sixteen year old who comitted suicide in the 1970's and who almost certainly had mental health issues that were never picked up.

Hence I am painfuly aware of the impact of even one completed suicide on a family.

 

I just want to add that some individuals will ultimately decide to take their own lives despite the best efforts of parents and good mental health services.

Sorry if I have offended anyone.I do not apologise for having a personal view as my own children now get very good support from Camhs -the support my brother should have had.Had he had the help my life would have been very different.Karen.

[Flora]

Karen, you make a very good point. and I agree that many adolescents NT/ASD or otherwise, often make the threat. It's when those threats are going hand in hand in depression (and not merely temper/antention seeking/manipulation) that serious intervention of some sort is necessary. However, the difficulty lies in identifying that depression, and the extra difficulty with those with ASD is that they already have problems communicating their feelings (over and above those of the NT adolescent) and as such by the time they reach that stage it has to be assumed (until proven otherwise and how do we do that??) that those threats could be serious and should be treated as such.

 

However, as baddad has already pointed out, KNOWING the child is the key factor here in being able to differentiate between the manipulative threat and the real threat. I reckon for my own part, I can spot the difference between Bill being attention seeking and when he is genuinly feeling despair (don't ask me how to explain how, I just KNOW) and believe me he is capable of attempting manipulation, but the difference between the genuine cry for help and the manipulative (I haven't got my own way!) situation is very obvious to me.

 

Karen, sorry to hear about your brother.... xx

 

flora

[DaisyProudfoot]

Martin often talks about committing suicide and I do understand why. I've been there myself - I have been so near to just driving my car into the nearest tree/lampost etc because life is so frustratingly hard sometimes and what would it matter if I wasn't there.

 

It's taken a lot of psychotherapy and tablets to prevent me from killing myself and often when I was asked why I would contemplate it all I could answer was that I didn't know It's only the love of my husband and children which have prevented me from taking the final leap. Plus I think God would be really annoyed with me for wasting my life like that.

 

I don't really think we do know why we threaten to kill ourselves - I don't know why our children do it. I've never mentioned I would like to kill myself in front of people I love, only my doctor but Martin he tends to do it when he's down and tells his twin sister who then tells us.

 

It may be worth trying to dig deeper into this - don't let it just pass because this kind of depression doesn't go away on its own. When Martin mentions it I do quiz him and I've even asked if he wants to go back to the psychologist but he seems to get by. I'm always wary though, I think it's worth keeping an eye on this.

[Mumble]

I think this is a serious, but also interesting, topic. I don't have children so can't comment from that perspective, but I can comment from the perspective of an adult (supposedly ) growing up undiagnosed and going through the early stages of diagnosis and the time afterwards (which, I have to remind myself, is still fairly 'recent' in terms of the whole of the rest of my life). I do hope that for all of you struggling with this issues with children, the diagnosis and the unsderstanding you will have developed of your children, and the particular ways they are affected by ASD, will help you to respond in a way appropriate for your child, in the particular context you are presented with, and without time to think or go to the manuals. I have very mixed feelings about whether an AS diagnosis as a child (as I recently found out was pushed for from a very early age without me having any inkling) would have been helpful of not (given the environmnet I grew up in at the time I did - if I was redoing my childhood today, then definately it's something I would want to know) but one thing I think it may have helped with is the associated 'mental health' issues that people may have taken me more seriously about.

 

I do think these issues have to be taken seriously, but there is a right way for everyone to take them seriously. My sister (NT) expressed suicidal thoughts at the age of 5 when we were going through some very difficult times as a family. Unfortunatly she chose to do this when the house was full of social workers, police and a stand-in GP - not great timing. This was attention-seeking - it was saying "I can't cope with and don't undersandwhat is happening to me and my family, somone make it stop by making some change" - it was attention seeking in that she needed people to realise that things were also happening to her that shouldn't have been and she had no way of expressing these. Unfortunatly (given the number of witnessess) it was taken seriously by SS but in the wrong way, which ultimately made things much worse and the fact that thy constantly brought up what she had said and wanted to talk about it, made her feel guilty (which is difficult for a 5 year old) and increased all the resentment in the house. Attension seeking behaviour is attention seeking for a reason - and I think it has to be judged on an individual basis.

 

For what it's worth, I think there are different levels on which these threats/feelings have to be judged. I have had suicidal thoughts and it's the most black, horrible thing to go through and something difficult to pull your self through. Sometimes it is more attention seeking in that I need people to realise just how distressed I am when I find it so difficult to express my feelings. In such cases it's not a 'treat' as such, but that doesn't mean it should seem any less serious - I have huge problems with expressing feelings - I often use 'hate' to describe someone who's upset me simply because I don't have the vocabularly-emotion association to express in ways that are understandable to others - having very limited ways of expressing feeling does mean that the extremes may be used at what is considered 'less' extreme.

 

At another level, often accompanying meltdown, I say or think that I want to die. I think about how I could die. At these times it's a beyond level one above where I need people to understand my feeling that I myself don't understand. It's a wanting to get out of that situation feeling. In meltdown I have no or very limited control over my feelings and actions - I am often sensorily overloaded to the absolute extreme - disorientated, confused, scared, angry, frightened. I want out of that intense feeling that pulsates in on me from everywhere. I want to escape the feeling that this insult will never end. Meltdown has to run it's course and this can last several hours - during this time I do want to die because to die is the only escape I can see. Afterwards I do feel differently, but during it's about being in a state beyond which any external comfort can take away the pain I'm feeling and where the only way to take it away is to die.

 

At a third level, and I think very different from the two above is where I seem far more rational and in control - these are perhaps to me the most dangerous times because it is at these times that people don't realsie I'm in distress and that I do have the capacity to carry out the thoughts I'm having - often silent thoughts where I have no verbal or visible (at least not to people who don't know the normal me very well) sign that something is very wrong. I went through this in the run-up to getting my diagnosis. I'd had to expose the issues I was facing to people who didn't want to listen and who simply had no understanding. I didn't understand myself and no-one understood me either. I couldn't make myself and my feelings understood to others and I couldn't make people see that I needed help. When I was dismissed by professional after professional as I went through the mental health route, far from support I fell deeper and deeper into not understanding myself. The bit that tipped me came when I was told by one of these professionals that I clearly wasn't trying to express my feelings and if I really couldn't put words to it (which subsequently came as a comorbid to my AS diagnosis) then really I may as well not exist. Maybe it was part of my AS taking things literally as well as feeling totally misunderstood and having no where else to go, but I stood that night on the railings of Waterloo Bridge staring into the water. I could see no other way out.

 

So I think every point raised by everyone above is valid in the contexts they are dealing with. People will, if they are determined, find a way out. Often this is done silently and without people around them knowing and seemingly in total control. This is the most immediate threat to life and has to be taken seriously - but it is difficult because the outwards 'signs' to take something seriously aren't there. Then there is the meltdown "I want to die" out of control screaming - again this needs to be taken seriously, but the way it is taken seriously is different - and prehaps more to do with prevention. And then there's the seemingly more manipulative in control 'anoucement' - but underlying this are real fears, somewhere and these fears, perhaps more than the threat, need to be taken seriously. In my opionion, people don't talk about killing themselves without some reason, somewhere. If the thought is there then there is the possibility that it could escalate to a different level. But everyone respondes differently, and differently at different times, and we have to find what's right in a particular context.

[bid]

I want to apologise as I have been made aware that I have expressed myself in a way that has caused offence

 

I shan't post in this thread again as I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable or unable to post

 

Sorry everyone

 

Bid

Edited October 26, 2007 by bid

[Cat]

Bid I can't see anything which would upset people. We are all entitled to our opinions I share yours having been there done and as I said am still wearing the T Shirt.

 

I personally think that there is a world of difference between and NT person and an AS person making self harm/suicide threats - but that is just me. I do not think that you can equate the two in the same sentence because there is so many differences that having AS throws up.

 

We all know our own children best and there are times when my youngest says things like he would rather be dead and I know that he is just mouthing off. But there are times when it is not him just mouthing off. Only yesterday he repeatedly jabbed himself in the head with a biro which was really pointed. This came about because he was attempting some work - not his home education - something he working on himself and he could not get his drawing to scale, which is very important to him. I had to remove the pen from his hand and he as not happy with me for doing so. He said he needed to hurt his head because the inside of his head was making him feel ill. We are managing to talk our way through these feelings and find a way to deal with them without physical pain. But my point is that from my experience people with autism can reach a flash point almost instantaneously and also reach the point of no return just as quickly. We may not be there when the flash point arrives and so we need to work on this while a child is young enough to find other ways to deal with their feelings.

 

I am not suggesting that we all race and make an appointment for CAMHS they actually made matters worse for my eldest. If you post on a forum like this you are certain to get lots of different view points. Some of us are very outspoken - I know myself well. However if I post for help I read and then decided if anything that has been posted could help me. If I think it could help me I will try it. No one can actually tell you anything and certainly not when it's time to call upon the experts but we can all share and that often helps. I really wish that I had known that self harm and suicide threats were quite a normal thing for young people with autism to go through. It would have saved us a great deal of greif.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Cat

[annie]

When my son was younger, he used to say he wanted to kill himself. Whenever I reported this to his Paed. he told me that children of his age (approx. 8 or 9) didn't understand that suicide was 'final'. However, at 14 like Bid's ds, he did try to carry out what he had been threatening to do for years . I had always taken these threats seriously, perhaps because as much as I do know my son, I didn't know for sure when he really began to understand it is final IFSWIM. The day I called our GP, Paed etc. for help , the only advice I received was 'call the police', I didn't. I know that if I had, my son wouldn't be here now.

 

My son was given an emergency appointment from the mental health dept after months of pleading and being told he wasn't an urgent case . He was diagnosed with depression, was given help by a physcologist and had a spell on medicaion which together helped a great deal.........but he was signed off three months later and hasn't seen anybody since . He still has low points, but I've been told that once again, unless it's emergency he/we are on our own.

 

Having been what we've been through, I would take these threats seriously.

[oxgirl]

My lad also says sometimes that he wishes he was dead or he'd rather be dead, but only when he's very upset about something. It is very distressing to hear, but I don't believe that he would actually try to harm himself, I think he's just telling me, in as extreme a way as he can think of, that he feels very, very bad and he doesn't know what to do with those feelings and he wants them to end. I don't believe that he wants his life to end, just that he wants the hurt to go away.

 

~ Mel ~

Edited October 26, 2007 by oxgirl

[Tally]

Tony Attwood talks about suicide in his Complete Guide . . ., and there are 2 things which may be relevant here.

 

He says that many people with AS suffer depression "attacks," which come on suddenly and pass just as suddenly. At these times they may well experience suicidal thoughts and could be a risk from 'spur of the moment' suicide attempts.

 

He also mentions a boy he came across whose parents were very concerned because he kept saying he wanted to commit suicide. It emerged that the boy had heard someone say that and thought it was a way to express distress of all intensities. In this case, it could be useful to give the child a way to describe the intensity of the feeling, and he suggests using visual methods like a thermometer or graph, or a score out of 10.

 

I wonder if there is a way to help him understand the finality of suicide. Might he understand if you reminded him of all the pleasant things he would not be able to do either?

[jlp]

Tony Attwood talks about suicide in his Complete Guide . . ., and there are 2 things which may be relevant here.

 

He says that many people with AS suffer depression "attacks," which come on suddenly and pass just as suddenly. At these times they may well experience suicidal thoughts and could be a risk from 'spur of the moment' suicide attempts.

 

He also mentions a boy he came across whose parents were very concerned because he kept saying he wanted to commit suicide. It emerged that the boy had heard someone say that and thought it was a way to express distress of all intensities. In this case, it could be useful to give the child a way to describe the intensity of the feeling, and he suggests using visual methods like a thermometer or graph, or a score out of 10.

 

I wonder if there is a way to help him understand the finality of suicide. Might he understand if you reminded him of all the pleasant things he would not be able to do either?

 

That's interesting Tally - thank you

 

With regard to the finality of suicide it's a tricky one as he thinks he'll be off to heaven which is a better place and that the rest of the family will join him in due course (sooner if we miss him!). I suppose I could broach the fact that God wouldn't look favourably on someone taking their own life but knowing G that will get into very tricky and complicated ground.

 

Bid - you didn't offend me at all, everyone's views and experiences are worthwhile thinking ground which is what I asked for <'>

[loulou]

Hi,

 

Haven't been around for a while, but just "popped in" tonight for a catch up. This topic is one i feel really strongly about.

 

I TOTALLY agree with Bid that these "threats" should be taken seriously. My son is 9 and he's been talking about ending his life on and off since he was 5. I was told the same by CAMHS as Bid was (same CAMHS too!).

 

He talks about wanting to die and has also run in the road, has BEGGED me to kill him, has tried to get hold of tablets and most recently he bit his way through a live electrical cable .

 

Sometimes he talks about wanting to die after a meltdown, but sometimes it comes out of the blue. He too says that he would prefer it in heaven. When i tell him i'd be really sad if he died, he says it doesn't matter because he wouldn't know i'd be sad as he would be dead. He also says life is too difficult and he never wants to be an adult as he thinks it will be too stressful.

 

I am very worried about him. I don't neccessarily think he'll carry out his threats, but it worries me that he feels so bad about life. Maybe it's his way of expressing how he feels.

 

I think you should mention it to the Paed/GP and the school. Maybe there is something at school that's really bothering him?

 

All the best,

 

Loulou xxx

[cmuir]

Might be a controversial answer, but here goes ...

 

My son makes threats and has actually tried to carry them out, self harms, etc etc. I agree with the majority that these threats should be taken seriously, but I think it's key not to allow the child to be aware of how petrified we parents really are and not automatically and visibly panic. I say this because whilst I believe my son, for example, has been making threats since he could talk pretty much and as with anything if he gets a reaction then he uses that - he's learnt which buttons to press!!! In addition, I have doubts that a child could understand the true enormity of what they actually say (younger children/not teenagers). That said, the fact is that their moods often dictate how they feel and without doubt I've seen Robert going through some particularly dark times - that certainly needs to be taken seriously.

 

Caroline.

[Frangipani]

Hi,

 

Just copying something I just posted for Clare63

 

 

My son had very low episodes like this too. It got very serious. I got so worried I said I want you to write down everything he was feeling and said if its okay 'I' would like to read it. He was happy to get all the thoughts in his head down on the computer. After this I read it my worst fear - he felt suicidal. I told him how much I loved him and all the thngs I loved about him and told him he was my 'son-shine' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) he loved that. We said some prayers then he deleted the journal and said lets imagine it all floating into the atmosphere in a big bubble and God / or universal energy solving some of these problems. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbup.gif) Which became a mental note of what his world was really like. Then I had something to work with and discuss with teachers and the Paediatrician.

 

My son gave me a big hug as he felt better - trusting to 'let it go' God or UE will start helping him. This was a big turn around.

 

Most important he was smiling again, and the weight was lifted off his shoulders. I was relieved that he trusted me to open up. Need to choose the time. Bit of retail therapy too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

 

Hope this helps others like it helped us.

 

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