3rd meltdown this week!!!!

[Enid]

Hi all. Well ds at it again, 3rd night this week, starts about 6, anything can trigger it, this time was because he was asked to turn over tv as he had been watching his choices all evening, I had discussed it with him before-hand, and he had agreed, he has tv in his room, little ones dont, so he cannot hog main tv. He trashed his room and broke ds 3,s new birthday toys. As have been reading book recommended on this site, Aspergers, practical tips for tantrums, rages, and meltdowns, we all ignored it, even littlies, He then came downstairs and kicked and punched walls, we still ignored it, he is now back in room thumping windows and the temptation to shout up the stairs is killing me!!!

[Kazzen161]

If you do shout at him, you will undo all the ignoring.

 

On a training course, I was told that it takes a child at least one hour to calm down after a meltdown, so leave him to calm down for at least that long.

 

Is there any music that calms him down? If so, you could try putting it on loudly enough for him to hear.

[purplehaze]

Well done for having the patients

 

I know you are probably warn out after all of these meltdowns but it seems he may be doing them for attention as well (after you ingnored he came down so you could see him). DON'T SHOUT UP THE STAIRS and you have achieved to change the whole outcome of events during these meltdowns.

 

Next time maybe try playing a game with all the other children while he is watching his programme and then when they watch a programme it will be his turn to play a game with you, giving him all of your attention in a positive way.

 

Believe me I know how hard it is to ignore a child/teenager punching and banging around. I always make my son tidy up his mess even fill holes in doors/walls after (making sure he has calmed down completely).

 

Hope it's all calm now. X <'>

Edited April 10, 2008 by purplehaze

[Enid]

Well I didnt shout and it worked, room is still trashed, he came down to say goodnight at 9. I will make him sort it in morning. He and I always play 3 games of cards every evening, about 8.45, it has to be 3!!!! so he does get lots of attention, it seems to be about control. Tonight we could ignore it as he wasnt hitting/punching us, then I would have had to do something, but it worked tonight so feel strong and powerful!! Thanks for support. Enid

[JsMum]

WOW thats amazing, the kicking and punching walls is a big difference, like you said at least he isnt kicking and punching you, I strongly recommend a punchbag a free standing one, I know we have had a discussion on this already on here, but for J it does help him to vent his frustrations out and using a punchbag is recommeded in all the anger management books, the punch bag we have is designed for kids, its a free standing one and its from a proffessional martial arts websie.

 

I think tonight is a big step in the right direction, I feel your strength in your post and I am so happy that you where able to keep your own reactions to a minimum, its so hard but the results tonight are evident, may be for the short term as much as possible is put in storage that is in his room, and anything that has been broken tonight placed in the bin straight away and a new jar for earning tokens to try and replace the items when he has learnt to control his emotions.

 

I am so pleased that tonight you have felt strong.

 

JsMum

[Enid]

Not a brill start to day, I asked ds to sort out mess made in room last night, he declined, but not politely! so I said well you will not be coming out with us then, he prompltly went out and sat in car, must remember to lock it, He came in after 30mins and said why arent you coming, we didnt reply, He then challenged me at top of stairs, I asked him to move away, he said or what (shades of david platt, just call me gail!) I then put my hand on his chest and moved him back, He went into room and came down and had done it!! Simmering now at mo, god its wearing. keep you posted. Enid

[oxgirl]

Well done, Enid, you're doing brilliantly and staying calm and strong and making him see that he can't get what he wants by thrashing and crashing. If it were me, I would sit down with him, when he is calm, and make him understand that if he has broken other people's property then he will have to replace it. If he broke his siblings' new toys then I would make it clear that there are consequences for this and that he will now have to buy new ones with his pocket money or go without pocket money until they are paid for or give up something of his own. I know this is likely to bring about more outbursts but I think it's really important that he knows that if he breaks something then he has to deal with the consequences for this.

Hope you have a better weekend. <'> <'> <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[smiley]

Excellent!!!!!! Well done Enid

 

Keep at it girlie, you're doing a fab job

[hev]

wel done enid i defo need lessons from you

[Karen A]

wel done enid i defo need lessons from you

Hev.....don't you be too hard on yourself.From what I gather you are doing very well lately. Karen.

[KarenT]

You're taking charge of the situation and showing it. He needs the security of knowing you'll be firm with him when it's necessary. Keep up the good work, you're doing great!

 

Karen

x

[sesley]

i have learn't an awful ot of patience with p over the years, its very tempting to loose it with him and i have,i have a short temper at times too, and it ends up with tears and upsets all around ,so i have found and taught myself,when he goes to stay calm and talk to him calmly , i use his room for time out zone and sit with him for 5 mins with a egg timer and telling him he can get out when he starts to get a grip, also if he does delibrately break anything it won't be replaced,can you get him to tidy up the mess when he calms down? alos have you looked at food ? is there anything in his diet that seems to loose it not long having it? our dietitian suggested that aspertaine sweetner in drinks and other low sugar diet foods can be a lot of trigger off some children,so i make sure he gets nothing with sweetner in it. I know its upsetting watching the meltdowns, but you do have to stay consisitant and make sure you are the one that comes out on top all the time, children on the spectrum have to learn rules like anyone else and they do,if you are prepared to teach them what rules of yours he has to abide by. and shave off about a third of chronological age, because the tantrums are a 2 / 3 year olds ways and young children on the spectrum have early difficulties in understanding social and communitcation skills and so the meltdowns are a sort of catch up for him. to get his way and establish who he is and what he wants.

[purplehaze]

Well done Enid, I hope your feeling proud of your self. <'>

[Enid]

Well I am today, but as they say, tomorrow is another day!!!! Enid

[purplehaze]

Just keep reminding your self of how you felt today.

[Enid]

Well my ds is really uping the anti at mo! Been fine last couple of days and today we were going out to buy him new trainers, at last minute he said I`m not going, I`m going to sit here and watch cartoons all day, told him that was not an option, and removed sky card to make the point. he got coat and I thought he was getting in car, but outside just stood there laughing and saying what are you going to do now, you cant make me get in the car, I asked him why he was doing this , he said, because I can and its fun and I`m in charge, no-one can go without me, I gave him two chances to get in car then said I was going, he said you wont go and leave me here, so I did!!!! and not only that I took the 2 littles to an adventure park! I didnt enjoy it though, was worried sick, my 18yr old was in house so he was safe, no-ones mentioned it since we returned at 4-30, but he is very quiet and brooding. Do you all think that was harsh? Enid

[oxgirl]

I don't think it's harsh, no, I think you did the right thing. You knew he'd be safe if left with his older brother, but you didn't allow him to rule the rest of you and prevent you all from going out. I think it was right that you showed him he is not the boss and that if he decides not to go with you then he misses out on treats and fun.

Hope tomorrow goes okay. <'>

 

~ Mel ~

[Kazzen161]

Yes, I think you did the right thing. He was challenging you in a big way, and you proved that you would go without him, and he would miss out.

[Enid]

Thanks for replies, Vey quiet all evening, and off to bed at 9pm, hopefully to reflect! I was going to have a discussion with him,about todays events, but decided to let him wonder/worry about it and leave it for morning, would life be boring if we had nothing to worry/wonder about? I`d be willing to give it a go!! Enid.

[KarenT]

Well done Enid, you did the right thing by stamping your authority on the situation. He needs to know you are in control and not him. Yours is a family home and he needs to learn/be taught how to fit into that family unit without demanding control. This is the way to go about it. Maybe you could back it up with a social story?

 

Karen

x

[Enid]

Its all gone wrong, tonight ds was watching tv and hogging it as usual, I asked him, calmly, to turn it over, he stropped off to his room, he came down in 5mins and littles were having supper and watching tv , he turned over to emmerdale, I told him he could watch it in room, he has his own tv. He ignored me so I turned it over, he stood up and pushed me, and grabbed my t shirt, breaking my locket and chain, then started punching me! I got up and tried to regain control of sisuation, littlies were screaming and he sat down and put emmerdale on and said now what are you going to do, dear god, he is getting worse, Ds1 arrived home at that minute, and ds2 went to room, have just been up to assess damage, curtains all down and ripped, big wall clock smashed into pieces cd player and plugs in small pieces and he just smiled at me, now what????? Enid

[hev]

oh enid,i dont know the answer to now what cos i havent worked it out yet but all i can offer is <'>

[Enid]

Thanx. hard isnt it.

[Kazzen161]

It is hard to advise without knowing the whole picture, but you need to look at prevention, changing the response and the consequences.

 

What can you do to stop this behaviour? It seems to be often to do with wanting to watch TV - can you do a rota - so he knows when he gets to choose what to watch and when it is someone else's turn. Being able to take turns takes a lot of practice. We had lots of rotas - even for whose turn it was to sit in the best chair at one stage! My son found it very hard to stop watching a programme once he had started watching it.

 

Behaviour - he needs help to learn to respond more appropriately when angry - either by walking away and calming down/punching a pillow and - one day - to be able to talk about why he is angry.

 

Consquences - when he breaks things - what do you do? Do you replace the things? Does he have to pay to replace the things? l would just remove all the broken things, without comment, but not replace them.

 

It is hard to tell if this is a meltdown due to overload, or a conscious challenge for control.

[JsMum]

I have read your post over and over and my honest opinion, just mine that is, so except others may disagree, but from what you described he has a pattern.

 

He sets up a challenge, this could be to see what control he can assert.

 

If there is a confrontation then uses aggression and violence to see if others submit.

 

Verbal afrimations to ensure you know what happens if you confront again, what are you going to about it then, Ive just kicked and punched you, theres no way your going to confront me now.

 

He is behaving in a very similair way in households what experience domestic violence and he does need urgent anger management, the situation is beginning to get very serious and I personally think that he is finding things that he wants as a way of challenging the authority in the home, its very interesting that your ds2 went upstairs without a word when your DS1 came home.

 

Is the chain and locket a very sentimal value?

 

 

JsMum

[Enid]

I agree, is it a meltdown or control? We have set a very clear rota for tv, j and I watch it together, 7,30 to 8.30, younger two watch it 6,30 to 7, then bath story, bed. He has tv in room but seems to want to monopolise lounge, sits opposite side of room to tv and tells us all to be quiet, its like living with a controlling man. Its getting out of hand at mo and am worried about effect its having on other kids, J and I have a lot of time together, so he gets lots of me and him time, dont know where its all going to end. Its much easier to give in to him, but what is that teaching him? and the others, and what is it teaching them seeing mummy punched?

[JsMum]

I know it seems to be easier to give in to your J, but actually it isnt, the long term it is harder becasue he will have size, age, and strength on his side, he will know how to minipulate the sitaution, the rules are clear, Its from 7:30pm so for me I would suggest its control, and in a massive dose, his need for control could be fueled by anxiety, and he needs to resettle it, but he is using control to settle him, he knows that your going to confront him about the TV in the lounge, thats the challenge, you confront he uses violence to get what he wants, and it may be working already, that over time will make it almost impossible to change because it will become a learnt habbit, you need to look at control/power issues, look at other ways to settle his anxieties, look at some form of physical activity at this time of the day, he will continue to be very violent if there is any situations he actually gets what he wants if at the end you have let him get the TV because you are too scared for retaliation, you may find BILD a good place for further advise on maybe something called conflict and resolution technequies, and break away, this is like a self defence course that is intended for families who have children with violent behaviour.

 

You really need to share this with cahms too.

 

If your chain and locket was senitmental did he know this?

 

 

A meltdown is usually a sensory overload from this situation it sounds more premediated and he was wanting conrtol to resettle his anxiety.

 

 

JsMum

Edited April 14, 2008 by JsMum

[Enid]

Thanks for replies, and yes j`s mum, the locket is of great sentimental value, belonged to great gran and worn it since I was 14, I think it is about control, he knows now he is stronger than me, and not yet bigger, but heavier. I will certainly share it with CAHMS in morning, but they are so wishy washy I`ll be so confused by time they have wittered on!! He is defo challanging for control in house and i thank god ds1 is home from college, 2 younger ones both asleep im my bed as they are scared to sleep alone, He does need anger management, will see if CAMHS can help with that. The tv is the issue this week, but yesterday he refused to go out with us for no apparent reason, that was about control, it seems to me that now I am trying to wrest back the control, he is trying to do the same, am really worried about how far he will go. Enid

[JsMum]

Hi Enid, if you are worried how far he will go, is this one reason that you are letting him have somethings his way?

 

If you are scared now its going to be really hard in the near future, you really need to be honest with camhs, have you ever video taped him, using a hidden camera, it may make the camhs see just what extent he is going.

 

I was thinking about what you said that even when he has the tv in the lounge he is still controlling you all by shouting at you to be quiet, that really does seem to me that even when he has control his urge to need more is very severe, I was also thinking it could be that he has difficulties listening to the TV and having distractions, could a pair of headphones help him though I think I would of banned the TV by now for J if it was me, and I have and I too got destruction but I just continued with the rule and in the end he did get the message even though all his smashed things went in the bin.

 

The reason I was asking if the necklace was senitmental I have a small feeling that he maybe went for this as he knows how much it means to you, just a small thought so sorry if it was genuinely an accident.

 

I hope you get some sleep, J was sleeping with me until a month ago, and I cant tell you how nice it is to have my own bed to myself, you have your children 24 hours a day even when you go to bed your not getting a break, do they sleep in their own beds when your J is at respite?

 

JsMum

[Enid]

HI, yes they always sleep in their own beds, but tonight they were scared,, I have put them back in their own beds now, so am hoping to get some sleep, but am too worried really. No I think you were right about the locket, he wanted to hurt me. I have bought him headphones, as he does struggle to hear, but since he has been in this "awkward" phase, for want of a better word, he wont use them. thank you for taking the time to really read my posts, it means a lot. we are all struggling to come to terms with his very difficult and escalating behaviour. I dont replace anything of his own that he breaks, but interestingly, allthough he smashed the remote for his tv, he didnt smash the tv, the only thing in his room to survive the onslaught, so he was able to control himself to that extent. Well tomorrow is another day, so goodnight for now. Enid

[Karen A]

Enid.If you read this before you speak to Camhs I think you need to be very clear with them about how challenging your DS has been in the last couple of days.I have just skipped through reading the last few posts as I just spotted them.

However if the other children in the house are frightened and are witnessing the level of agression you describe being directed at you it is a very vulnerable situation for them to be in.Camhs need to be taking the situation seriously .

I hope you are able to get some support.Karen.

[Enid]

Well spoken to CAMHS and they say they are writing a report for social services. This morning ds fine until I tried to speak to him about his behaviour last night, then he said I`m not sorry for what I did, it was your fault for not letting me watch tv, I told him we would have a schedule and write it down He just ran out of the house, swearing. Have just sneaked up to local park, which is on corner and he is there swinging and singing, We were supposed to be going out today, but obviously wont now. Will have acuppa before I consider my next move. Enid

[JsMum]

Hi Enid, I have real difficulties in getting J to understand his own behaviours, one of his difficulties is excepting responisbilities and he will blame others as much as he can, so I am doing work on asking him how he wants others to treat him, it goes with the saying treat others how you want others to treat you.

 

Part of that is taking responisbility for your own behaviour, at the moment he wont see that last night was actually because he challenged you, as for the not hearing, has he had a audiology test, this may be auditory prossessing and its interesting what you said about his own TV and remote.

 

Be carefull about CAMHS writing to SS its great that they want there input, but our SS are not equipt to deal with challenging and complex children, our service are for everyday families and they are not trained in ADHD/ASD and on a few occations they have said inapropriate comments.

 

Also if you feel he needs more behavioural councilling/management they will just pass this back to the responisbilities of camhs, and your back to square one, has your son been offered a CPN or therapies with in this team by CAMHS or it is just medication at the moment?

 

I really do hope that the social services can look into some support for your youngest children, playscemes or similiar so it will still be useful that Camhs are referring you but Ive been to a few meetings lately and they love passing on the responisbilties to each other, education want more support from ss, ss want more support from camhs and camhs want ss to do more, its a right merry go round, and really all it does is use valuable time and in the meantime your in a really difficult crisis.

 

 

Have you had a meeting where all the teams get together and discuss a complete package/action plan?

 

Anyway hope today is okish, I know its not but I wished it was.

 

JsMum

[JsMum]

Also want to add, as well, when the letter has been done to SS request a copy to yourself, just incase this letter doesnt get recieved by SS, you have a copy means you can photocopy it and have it as evidence, also it gives dates of when the request was made so any difficulties in delivering the support you have proof of when and what was requested.

 

JsMum

[Suze]

Hi hope things are ok today.Have you thought about taking the telly out of the room and putting it away?................it might give you back some control and he,ll then go to his room to watch his own tv.Of course this may make things worse but just wonderd if it was an option.We have big problems with the tv and my son controls "it"!!................I,ve told him its going a few times lately if he does,nt relinquish the remote control, and I meant it , ......blinkin televisions!!

[darky]

Enid, I just wanted to say you are doing brilliantly. Your patience is the key to helping your son, your fear and that of your other children is aiding his control. It's natural that a child suddenly dealing with a change in tactics will up the ante, he is testing you to see how far he has to go. Although it may appear your son is not phased by his behaviour or lack of response, the fact he is engaging in conversation and actively challenging you with "what you going to do" to me says he is actually botherd, but it's all part of it. Without doubt you should be concerned about the safety and wellbeing of your other children, but have a plan b in case there is a real threat to their safety, ie calling the police. Your son is now getting to the age of criminal responsability so the police would have a duty to act on his behaviour if there was a threat to you or your other children or even damage to your property, but I would only use them as a last resort and only if you were prepared to go all the way, or any threats in the future, it won't have an effect.

 

I would suggest if he trashes his room, wait until he is calm and just go in there, tidy it up and throw away the broken bits, don't engage in conversation about it. If you have to say anything at all, tell him it's his choice to destroy his room. It seems he does have the control not to destroy things that he enjoys which suggests to me it's not an anger problem per se. I know it sounds really simple, but have you asked him why he is so angry or why he feels the need to defy you? Perhaps set aside some time when you can be alone with him and just talk to him. It might be that you can openly discuss this and involve him with making the right choices. We have just had some outreach for anger/control issues and they came up with a booklet for my children, first of all recognising what upsets mum dad bro sister etc, what makes them happy, what makes them angry and some suggestions of things they can do when they are angry like punching pillow etc. It never occured to my son that slamming his door and throwing things around had an impact on me or anyone else! He just saw he was angry and it was something he did! Just asking him the questions was enough!!

 

Enid, I do feel for you. You are doing fantastic. You are working so hard to try and get your son to accept he is responsable for his actions, no offence to anyone, but sometimes parents get dx for their children and suddenly disapline goes out the window, and children with behaviour issues grow into adults with behaviour issues. So well done you for tackling this, you should be proud of yourself. <'>

[Enid]

Well, survived the day! just been catching up on all your replies. I have asked him why he is so angry, he says he dosn`t know but that last night was my fault for asking him to change channels, he kept leaving the house today and going up to the park on the corner, something he has never done before, he only stayed about 10mins each time, and I`m sure he was expecting me to follow him and challange him, I did follow 1st time but he didnt see me, He has been really anxious and on edge all day, but no violence, tonight he played cards with the younger two, something he hasnt done for a long time. He is now in bed, nearly asleep!!!! Huraah! i fell so guilty feeling like that. I am very worried about ss becoming involved in case thay say he is a danger to himself and others and insist he has to go, dont think I could live with myself. Have just now popped up to check them all and he is laying on floor with quilt and pillow, oh god, what is all that about! Just left him to it. Also a friend phoned earlier and asked me if he was ok as she saw him outside park, just laying on pavement!! I think he is having some kind of breakdown. Enid

[purplehaze]

Hello Enid, well where should I start, Your son is so much like mine it's unbelieveable. What I notice when my son is displaying this behaviour is it's usually these reasons:

 

• when he has been upset over something else and he can't explain or even knows how he is feeling. And then when he has to do something or is challenged over something he blows

• he needs to be in control because he often feels out of control over alot of his feelings and life.

• Sensory issues, noises, taste etc

• probably other things

 

My son is also agressive and throws things and smashes things and i don't know what the answer is although reading the Explosive child made me think and see things in a different way. I agree with lots of the advice you have had (consequences etc). I am very interested in what support you get because I haven't any although have asked on many occassions. Ignoring as much as you can seems to really work for me (because they want you to react) and then when he is calmer he has to deal with the consequences and clean up and that is when he says sorry and is my lovely calm boy again. I feel like I have a jeykl and hyde.

 

Strangely, my son also went through a faze of slepping on the floor and only recently started to sleep in a bed again.

 

Hope all is calm for you now, good luck and keep posting to let us know how things are going. X

[JsMum]

he needs to be in control because he often feels out of control over alot of his feelings and life.

 

The mad thing about control is that they are wanting this to eliviate the anxiety but when they get control its overwelming, they cant cope, they actually dont feel very safe, so they challenge further in hope that you take back the control, so that they can feel safe again, its a vicious circle, comprimise and a two choice sitaution I feel is better for J.

 

The lying on the floor might be to feel grounded, J did this a lot before I got him a weighted blanket, some children with a sensory difficulty they dont have awarness of where there body is in relation of their enviorment, the floor will be hard and give him some indication where his body is, It took me ages to realise that he was lying on a hard floor for this reason, now he doesnt do it.

 

you can buy other weighted items now too, weighted vests, weighted shorts, the lying on a pavement may of been this sensation and to realine his surroundings, or giving his sensory network a work out if he looked up at the sky.

 

I personally dont know if he is having a breakdown, but he clearly not coping and when he is going off, hes not on the park like the other kids, he is lying sparked out on the pavement, giving strangers/ passer bys cause for concern.

 

I totally understand your worries in involving the SS but by not having them available now with your parental authority at the fore front, if you dont do anything now and something severe happens then there is more of a chance they may act without knowing the situation first.

 

So acting now probably is the best, and I have asked, no wait screamed for help because we where going down the road of a crisis and I didnt think it was fair that he would of ended in the system because I couldnt cope any more.

 

JsMum

[Enid]

Hi, thanks for replies, its really appreciated, especially when sitting here alone with a glass of red!! all asleep, in their own beds. result. Think I must get a weighted blanket for ds. Just looked at him now alseep on floor, no curtains, no lampshade, no quilt cover, he has trashed them all, if ss saw him now!!!!! well see what tomorrow brings, night all Enid