One Boy and NOT a dog !

[MelowMeldrew]

I thought I would impart this. MY Autistic son has ALWAYS been afraid or indifferent to dogs. Recently, his mum wanted a dog, and despite my reluctance to go along with it, I decided to agree. We were fortunate as it turned out, we had a dog 'On Approval' in that the owner an aged Aunt had to go in to hospital for a week so she asked us to look after it, and, if it works out we could take it over, as she was getting too old to run after it, albeit she said if it didn't work out she would be glad to have it back afterwards.

 

It was an awful 7 days I have to say, with our autistic son hating the very sight of it, he wouldn't have it near him, refused to play with it, would not stay in they same room as it, and even pushed it our the front door onto the road, literally threw it our the house, luckily I saw it happen and got it back. He also threw his food out the door and drink, he wanted nothing to do with it, I've never seen him so determined not to like something. For the following 7 days our son was relentless in demanding the dog, GOES, and NOW ! MY partner really liked the dog, it was a lovely spaniel, and as dogs go, was quite well trained as well, our son was not having it in any shape or form. IN the end I took it back a day early, because it was not working out, and stressing the boy too. I was told "You must teach him to get along with animals, be firm !" I said if you don't take it back he'll do it damage. I think it's total fallacy animals are a way in to autistics, it clearly was totally unworkable with mine, who will not tolerate ANY animal within miles of him, he hated goldfish even, and when younger threw stones into the tank to hurt them.

 

Are there autistic others who show this fear and animosity towards animals ? Mum decided to wait now until it comes from him, I talked to the boy explained even IF in the future you want a pet, you cannot have one until you have been taught how to care for them first. He said no problem, he doesn't want any sort of pet ! and me an Mum are NOT to bring any home or he will throw them out again. I can't understand this aggression towards animals, he really does dislike them. Looks like Mum is never going to have her wish...

[Sooze2]

Are there autistic others who show this fear and animosity towards animals ? Mum decided to wait now until it comes from him, I talked to the boy explained even IF in the future you want a pet, you cannot have one until you have been taught how to care for them first. He said no problem, he doesn't want any sort of pet ! and me an Mum are NOT to bring any home or he will throw them out again. I can't understand this aggression towards animals, he really does dislike them. Looks like Mum is never going to have her wish...

 

I just wondered if this could be some sort of control issue? When he said "you and Mum are not to bring any home or I will throw them out again" is just the sort of tone DS takes with me. Yesterday I didn't bring any Playstation games for him to play at his freinds house after school, he was not happy and said "if you don't go and get me some I will get very angry and you will be sorry"!!!! I didn't get them!

 

Anyway - about the dog. DS was petrified of dogs right up until a couple of months ago when we re-homed a 4 year old dog from a rescue center, we weren't intending to get a dog at that time but I won't go into the details............ He would run across roads to get away from any dog that could come near him, it was pretty bad. The dog we have here now is a Lurcher and the most stupid layed back dog I have ever met. DS likes her and will stroke her, he is coming around to the idea of her living here now but she is quite aloof and tends to say hello to the kids then ingore the them unless they have food. This has had a very possitive effect though and he was even saying hello and stroking a dog in the park yeaterday, he's not very freindly with them but will pat their heads and can walk on the same pavement as one now rather than running away.

 

I never thought I would ever get another dog because he was so scared of them but I think we were really lucky. I thought you may like to hear a possitive story before you give up on the idea completely.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Sooze2

[hsmum]

Hello,

 

I used to work with quite severely autistic people. Many of the clients were terrified of dogs. Dogs are unpredictable: they might bark, jump, chase etc. Dogs also come in lots of different shapes and sizes. With some clienta, we had to do a 'dog check' before going out.

[Mumble]

Dogs are unpredictable

Exactly. I'm terrified of dogs for this very reason. I can't be rational about my fear exactly because I can't predict what will happen. There are too many risks. I am now, having been fearful for 29 years, trying really hard with someone I trust implicitly, to spend a little time with his fairly placid puppy, but this must be on my terms and in safe territory, not in my safe space. If a dog (even this particular puppy) was brought into my room, I would feel that I had no safe space to retreat to and my stress levels would by unbearable.

[bid]

Personally, I think he should be allowed to dislike dogs, just as someone who is NT can dislike them, IYSWIM.

 

I know it's hard on Mrs MM, but if an adult didn't like dogs you'd accept it, so I think kids (NT or ASD) should have their feelings accepted too.

 

Bid

[Imelda]

Our son is scared of dogs too. Enen the little tiny ones.

[MelowMeldrew]

I won't attempt to get a dog again personally, it was far too much hassle, and I wasn't pandering to any attempt of control by the boy, I know his ways now ! Since the dog went we have had no problem whatever, he is calmer, less stressed out. He doesn't like dogs, that's it, we DO have a cat, and although he hated that as well, he did put up with it, and doesn't mind it in the house. There again a cat does what it wants doesn't it ? mine goes out all day most of the night comes in for food that's it, probably an ideal pet for an autistic ! The dog did jump up on us, for affection etc, he really did not like that at all. Then again when it was quiet on the floor he still didn't want to know. He never at any time showed an inkling to play with or accept it, there was nothing at all there.

 

What we DID notice was his increase in communication ! Not WITH the dog, He went to considerable lengths day and relentless night to let us know the dog could not stay under any circumstance, we were surprised at the high level of communication he displayed when he was angry over the dog ! I saw a way in to him basically, not goading him with things he won't like to get a response obviously, but manouvering situations now where it forces response a bit, it's a fine line I know ! I'll have to think out how to get that response without the stress... His communication is there it came out, I found that a relief...... something to build on.... His school has also said they will change his class and classmates in September, since he started, they put him with peers who were also quiet, so he didn't get stressed, now he has adjusted a lot more, they say they will put him in a class with peers who are more animated and verbal, hopefully he will emulate that and we will get more feedback. At present little is spontaneous, he has to be primed every time for most situations, when he is they get feedback then, but nothing off the cuff at all.

 

When he did sports days, you would have to tell him, run to there as fast as you can, but when there were other things to do as well it fell apart, because you may not have explained fully he had to do other things as well, the teacher assumed he would simply copy his peers and pick it up, which he didn't, you had to be specific every time ! If you had to run, then crawl under a sheet, then pick up a rubber ring and bring it back, each operation would have to be explained in considerable depth, seeing wasn't doing ! He'd mange the instructions then not understand at the end after he picked up all 3 rings, he had to race straight to the end without doing any of those things ! The pattern had fell apart he got confused and stopped, race over.

[pookie170]

My AS lad has loved having a dog around, but it stands to reason that not every person on the spectrum will have that affinity with animals..... it's not as if every NT person has it, hey? In fact, in our house, it was my youngest who didn't want the dog to stay, but I think that was down to the fact that he is rather weeny, and the dog is rather big!!

 

Think your idea's worth a try, MelowMeldrew, you'll soon know if it's having any positive effect or not.

 

Esther x

[MelowMeldrew]

It's a good advert for the RSPCA isn't it ! Let people 'try before they buy' a dog, if it doesn't work out no harm done. Probably cut down the huge neglect animals suffer in the UK, which boasts it is 'dog' and pet mad... 100s abandoned at the roadside and starved tells us the reality, we are rubbish with animals care, it's a novelty when they are small and cute, but they grow don't they. One thing I read is the WHOLE family has to want the dog or pet, because if that doesn't happen, the Vets and RSPCA don't like to home them with a family. I think we have debunked the theory dogs help autistics to communicate better !

Edited June 29, 2008 by MelowMeldrew

[Bard]

I think we have debunked the theory dogs help autistics to communicate better !

 

Sorry, but that is a huge generalisation.

Many of us have worked long and hard to develop an understanding of autism as a spectrum with enormous variety and combinations within it. Our children are all individuals, with individual needs and preferences and sensitivities.

 

Merely because this specific situation didn't work out does not mean that it proves your hypothesis, and for some autistics dogs have proved extremely useful in enabling them to understand and develop awareness of another's needs.

You will need a lot more evidence and data before that statement can be proved.

[pearl]

 

Horses for courses. Or should that be dogs?

[oxgirl]

My lad is terrified of dogs, absolutely hates them. He is also totally indifferent to our cat. He tolerates her, just, but won't have her in his room if I'm not there as well. He refuses to acknowledge her half the time and doesn't really look at her at all. If she comes near him and miaows at him he'll just say 'GO AWAY'. He never, ever strokes her, refuses to touch her, actually, unless it's to put his hand on her rather awkwardly to push her away. If he gets up from the chair to pop to the loo and she should dare to jump into his space while he's gone, he'll just come in and tip up the chair until she moves. He's not unkind to her, but he just sees her as an annoyance really and has no feelings for her at all.

 

He adores his snails though and sobs buckets when they peg it.

 

~ Mel ~

[Flora]

Sorry, but that is a huge generalisation.

Many of us have worked long and hard to develop an understanding of autism as a spectrum with enormous variety and combinations within it. Our children are all individuals, with individual needs and preferences and sensitivities.

 

Merely because this specific situation didn't work out does not mean that it proves your hypothesis, and for some autistics dogs have proved extremely useful in enabling them to understand and develop awareness of another's needs.

You will need a lot more evidence and data before that statement can be proved.

 

Totally agree.

 

Our dogs (and cats!) have been brilliant for both of my boys. Ben has learned how to be responsible and assertive because of them; and Bill, well the benefits are endless. Bill has real trouble communicating (sometimes his voice just doesn't work!) but he can ALWAYS talk to the dogs and cats, and in a very animated voice. He is kind, patient and has all the time in the world for them. When he has been really down, he can always be cheared up by the funny things they do. And because dogs are so loving, and their only agenda is to show and receive affection (and food!) then he knows he can be open and trusting and has nothing to fear. I could go on for ages about this!

 

Flora

[darky]

Well I have to say that dogs have been great here. Both my younger ASD children were PETRIFIED of dogs. The situation was controlling what we did. My daughter already had loads of phobias which restricted our lives. They were both so scared we could not visit anyone who had dogs, we could not go to parks or even risk walking down the road.

 

In the end we decided we would try getting a puppy. Something very small that would grow with them. Something that could not bite or scratch to an extent of ruining what our aim was. We decided on a lhasa apso. When we went to see the pups my daughter climbed high on the sofa to get away from the pups. We got the dog and started off with little steps. Seeing as it was a pup we researched and the advice was to crate train the dog. We bought a crate to house train him. To start with my girl would only go in the room when the dog was in the crate. Once she realised she was safe, we encouraged her to offer the pup treats through the crate. Then I would have the pup on my lap and eventually she would come in the room. Next step was getting her to sit near me with the pup and eventually to touch him. Within a couple of weeks she was interested in holding him. Sometimes it would only last a few seconds but we never forced her. Now she does not bat an eyelid with any dog. Gizmo is over 3 years old now and we have a second rescue dog. All my children adore them and none of them are afraid of any dog now.

 

I am not saying that everyone should get a dog, or any animal. But getting over a fear or phobia takes a lot of time and patience. Sometimes the fears affect the quality of life. Sometimes the fears involve every day things that are unavoidable. We have had it all, dogs, cat, buses, bugs, fireworks, even some opening credits of DVD's. My daughter would lash out uncontrolably in fear to try and get away. In my opinion, you cannot let the fears over take quality of life. You cannot protect these children forever. We fell into the trap of believing there were certain things she would not be able to do. cant go here because of...that sort of thing. We realise that was wrong now. I don't ever put limits on what any of my children can or can't do, nor will it dictate or effect our quality of family life to the extent of being prisoners in our own home. So with every fear phobia or dislike we have worked extremely hard to over come it and we have over come so much. It's better to work on these things now as when they grow up it's a lot harder. It does concern me the intense dislike of animals your son has, to the extent he would harm them. In my opinion, not wanting to offend, that is something that needs working on.

[lorryw]

We have a little miniature schnauzer and I love her to bits.

I was desperate for a dog but my son had become fearful of them. We thought long and hard and eventually decided to take the plunge. To be honest I needed something other than autism in my life (had 22 year of it so far!) and I suppose I was selfish.

We brought her home at 8 weeks and also bought a crate (large doggie cage) which was an absolute godsend. She sleeps in it and its useful if our son ever has a meltdown to keep her safe. He freaked when he first saw her and it took a little while for him to accept her. She has been brilliant and for some reason has never barked or jumped at him. She likes to sit next to him on the sofa but never gets on his knee, just looks at him. Sometimes he will smile at her and pat her head which makes my heart turn over. He does grumble at her if she follows him into the garden and tries to usher her back in.

Shes given an added dimension to our lives and Im sure if our lad could speak he would say she was okay

[MelowMeldrew]

Sorry, but that is a huge generalisation.

Many of us have worked long and hard to develop an understanding of autism as a spectrum with enormous variety and combinations within it. Our children are all individuals, with individual needs and preferences and sensitivities.

 

Merely because this specific situation didn't work out does not mean that it proves your hypothesis, and for some autistics dogs have proved extremely useful in enabling them to understand and develop awareness of another's needs.

You will need a lot more evidence and data before that statement can be proved.

 

 

It's no generalization to state the reality in my son's case, I don't want a run-in with dog lovers thanks ! I think people watch too much TV personally ! The hypothesis of animals and Autistics hasn't, been proven either, since THAT TV program, everyone assumes a dog can cure an autistic, I am just stating it did not in my son's case, and I don't really feel it is a proven fact. Dogs are trained to assist deaf people too, but there are many deaf people who don't want a dog no matter what it can do....As was said it may have worked in a few cases, but it's not a 'Magic bullet' to help autistic communications improve. The dog we had he just did not want to know about on any level. The sole communicating we received was, get it out of here, sadly.... it's a simple case of he is not a dog lover.

[Flora]

It's no generalization to state the reality in my son's case, I don't want a run-in with dog lovers thanks ! I think people watch too much TV personally ! The hypothesis of animals and Autistics hasn't, been proven either, since THAT TV program, everyone assumes a dog can cure an autistic, I am just stating it did not in my son's case, and I don't really feel it is a proven fact. Dogs are trained to assist deaf people too, but there are many deaf people who don't want a dog no matter what it can do....As was said it may have worked in a few cases, but it's not a 'Magic bullet' to help autistic communications improve. The dog we had he just did not want to know about on any level. The sole communicating we received was, get it out of here, sadly.... it's a simple case of he is not a dog lover.

 

I've never ever watched or read anything about dogs and autism. When we got our dogs it had nothing to do with autism, it was because we love dogs and wanted our own. The fact that they have been of theraputic value is coincidental icing on the cake and actually happened long before there was a book out on the subject! (we got our first puppy in 2003!) I don't think anyone here was stating that it is a 'magic bullet' or a proven hypothesis. People were just commenting on their own experience without making generalisations.

 

Flora

[Bard]

 

I have never watched anything on dogs and autism.

I am not a dog lover or even a dog liker.

I've never heard that dogs can cure autism..what a strange idea.

 

I am, however, of an academic turn of mind, and a teacher.

The generalisation I objected to was the statement that you had debunked an entire theory based on one boy's reaction to one animal in his home. I felt you needed to provide more evidence to back up such a declaration.

 

If you are now stating that it just didn't work in your son's case, that I can understand and agree with.

[hev]

im scared of dogs thats my contribution to this thread

[Sooze2]

Editing to say - blimey this is long - sorry!

 

I think it depends on the dog, there are some dog breeds that I don't like and am naturally warey of and will never own and some people can't understand why.

 

My old licky, jumpy uppie, manic Jack Rustle would have given DS a nervous breakdown for sure but like I said earlier Lurchers are notourious for being lazy layed back dogs but very fast and entertaining when off the lead. The effect our recent 4 year old addition has had on our Aspergers son's life has been very dramatic to say the least!

 

His fear of dogs was actually dissabling for him and us because we are outdoorsy people (is that a word?). We are very luckily that we found the right dog for us and him and he is now taking up the challenge of saying hello to dogs that we meet if he feels like it and that we deem to be calm enough to reinforce the fact that dogs are ok. It makes him feel great and very brave that he has done it too, just the fact that he doesn't run as fast a possible away everytime is a bonus so touching a dog is megga

 

A puppy wouldn't have been suitable here because it would have had the opposite effect on DS because they are very unpredictable. We have been lucky, but we don't allow her to jump up or annoy the kids and we won't let them annoy her either, it works both ways and they need to learn this about all animals at some point in their lives. If they were to annoy her, push her around or hurt her they would be told off whether they have AS or not.

 

At the end of the day there are 5 people living in my house and there is no way one person is going to controll every aspect of it. There are times when he has simply objected (violently or with tantums) to something for days only because that thing is taken attention away from him and he hates it if he isn't the center of our universe. Sometimes majority has to rule I'm affraid!

 

But thats how it is in my house, youve made the right decision for your family no one can tell you what is best for you apart from you. But it's great for me to hear how others deal with their lives so I can pick up tips and stratagies - I need all the help I can get. I don't know why I wrote more really but I just felt the need. I know my son isn't as badly affected as some and perhaps thats why he has coped. Who knows.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Sooze2

[misterfredrogers]

J is absolutely terrified of dogs too..he will chance get knocked down by a car stepping off the path when a dog comes near.The more he is frightened the more they are drawn like a magnet too him..." dont worry he wont bite he is so friendly !"they all shout as they let the poor excited dog pound ever closer J scream coming more shrill or if they on a lead as he practically crawls up me up me in fear ( which is awkward as he is 9 and rather heavy.) My cat (16) was put to sleep in March and I miss having a cat so so much but J was so indifferent to him and disliked the lack of control he had over the cat and he has told me he will run away if I DARE get a kitten or another cat.

[Bard]

My son adores his cat, it's the centre of his world and the first thing he thinks about when he wakes up.

Several months ago, a dog chased the cat into our front garden just as we were coming home.

B picked up the dog by the collar and belly and threw it over the garden wall, and he was growling louder than it was.

The dog ran.

[Bagpuss]

Dogs have always been a huge issue for our youngest DD. When she was very young, and still in a pushchair, she would scream, cry and become very very distressed whenever she saw a dog...even if it was on a lead, and well away from us. I began to dread encountering dogs at all when we were out. Visiting people who owned dogs became a big no no for us. I can't say this fear was confined to dogs alone, as she seemed to have real fear of animals like hamsters, and one of our friends had a cat, and youngest DD was very scared of it.

 

We found getting guinea pigs helped....I know, sounds abit daft doesn't it. But because they just sat there, hardly moving, and were happy to be stroked and cuddled, she began to tolerate them more and more. Now I can hardly keep her away from our piggies, and have to keep a close eye on her that she is treating them appropriately. We've have a few incidents when she has treated them in an unkind way, although I'm unsure if this is deliberate.

 

I've noticed since she's began to handle the guinea pigs, and has overcome any fear she had of them, she is more tolerant of dogs. She will stroke them now, so long as they are calm and not jumpy. We can visit people who own dogs now, although if they begin to wander around alot, or sniff around her, she gets abit jittery. I think she struggles because she doesn't know what they will do next.

 

I've always had abit of phobia regarding dogs...which is ironic really because my dad trained police dogs Actually it's probably not that bizarre, having spent many times as a child watching him being regularly "attacked" in a padded suit. I always give dogs off the lead a wide berth if I'm out, and I can't bare dogs which leap up at you, even if I know the dog.

[MelowMeldrew]

It would seem all sorts of animals or pets are out really with our lad, just the cat who he rarely sees anyway. I'm not going to bother to 'educate' him to pets he so obviously dislikes or fears, certainly not by introducing them to the home before he is ready, which I think was my mistake. The school said they took his class Hawking (Birds), and there he was the only child who would allow the bird to fly up to him and rest on his arm ! All is confusion except when you realise he just doesn't like dogs I suppose. It is a shame on one front as his Mum has wanted and waited for one, for many years. Son says no, and we can't force him to like it. In the future any desire for a pet is going to be resisted by US, until he has undergone therapy and training, in looking after one. I wouldn't like another week like the last... those who have had the fulll brunt of an Autistics ire will understand !! The only time he stopped berating us for the dog being in the house, was when he fell asleep... we'd get followed room to room where he made his point !

 

Now for some reason he has developed an aversion to TV cartoons !!? At one time that is all he would watch, now he will switch the TV off if he sees one. I think all this is linked to the other topic about puberty, as he is now just 13....

[lorryw]

Forgot to mention that although our lad accepts our dog, he is terrified of other dogs.

[MelowMeldrew]

Forgot to mention that although our lad accepts our dog, he is terrified of other dogs.

 

 

Accepts or just 'tolerates' ? It seems the dog hasn't the run of the house ? We had to go around shutting doors to prevent the dog and the boy being in the same room or place, it was a pretty intolerable position for us all really. When he went out the garden, the dog wasn't allowed, when the dog went out the garden, he would shut the door on it to stop it coming back again, if the doors had to be left open, he would usher the dog out the front door and onto the street, and then lock the door ! it got too much effort keeping them apart, the dog became at risk then from running into the road.

[BusyLizzie100]

I've been to a number of talks by Ros Blackburn, who explains that she is terrified of dogs, not because they bark and are noisy or unpredictable but because she can't stand the thought of all that hair or fur etc.

 

My boys are nervous of dogs because they ARE noisy or unpredictable, but of the three of them it is the youngest 'NT' one who is really terrified of them and will go out of his way to avoid them - sometimes jumping off the pavement into the road to give it them as wide a berth as possible...

 

Interesting what's been said about dog owners saying 'he's friendly, give him a pat' - the same thing happens with DS2 and balloons. They ARE unpredictable and scary but nonetheless he is fascinated by them, so when we pass somewhere with lots of balloons we always have to stop and look, then the balloon people say 'here, have one' and try and force one on him. Disaster! Fortunately he has learnt to say 'no thanks' now, rather than turning round and hitting me.

 

Sorry... gone a bit off topic there...

 

Lizzie xx

[lorryw]

I would say he accepts her as part of the household, much as he accepts us. I would never say that she has made a huge difference to his life because I wouldnt presume to speak for him.

I wouldnt allow a dog to have the run of our house, she uses the crate/cage to sleep in and is very well trained.

I love having her around, she keeps me sane. Just taking her for a walk makes me feel better