Comments on Panorama: Britain on the Sick

[alanm]

Back in May there was a Panorama on "Britain on the Sick", prepared in the run-up to the reforms of "incapacity" benefits to the new "Employment Support" allowance.

 

This link is to the comments page. See the 9th one down from the man in Worcestershire, yes another reference to Asperger and not doing well in interviews.

 

I've had only 2 interviews in nearly 6 months this year, I'm normally rejected at application stage. The sheer frustration!

[Canopus]

I think employers are to blame for this sorry situation. They often penalise people who have been out of work for more than a few months and in some cases won't interview them if they have gaps on their CV.

 

Another problem is that the system tries to shunt disabled people and people unable to work because of previous medical conditions into any old job rather than something which reflects their skills and qualifications. Then the government and employers have the cheek to cry out that there's a skills shortage.

[alanm]

Spot on there Canopus. Naturally I feel so frustrated at having a gap on my CV, because I've applied for a lot of jobs in these months, but am not the employers' first choice of person because of not having "good communication skills."

[CEJesson]

Its been incredibly difficult finding a job here, and the interview scenario is incredibly difficult and stressful. I am very well prepared but most 'get better in interview' support pages/books always say preparation helps confidence. This is true but for those with AS anxiety is present whether you know everything or not

[ScienceGeek]

When I was looking for work I would get maybe one or two interviews a year for jobs that were totally unsuitable. This was while I was on JSA, they would be really aggressive and threaten to take away benefits if I didn't go for the jobs they found. I could have gone on JSA for just the national insurance credits but it wasn't worth the stress (wife works too many hours/earns too much money). It got to the point where I got changed on to Incapacity as my dr signed me off sick because of the pressure that they were putting me under. This was before I had any kind of diagnosis and people just thought I was being lazy

 

Oh yeah and I have lots of gaps in my employment and it is getting harder all the time to even get to the interview stage. They all want confident, good social skills, working in groups etc.

Edited August 12, 2008 by ScienceGeek

[CEJesson]

Having AS has limited me on the types of jobs I feel I can work in.

 

For example there is no point me applying for bar work/waiting on which are the most plentiful jobs around for students as it is too busy and noisy. Plus I am extremely clumsy which is never good for handling crockery/glassware

 

I shall always try to combat my issues but with working under the eye of someone else in mind you have to be sensible with what you apply for.

[alanm]

Most 'get better in interview' support pages/books always say preparation helps confidence. This is true but for those with AS anxiety is present whether you know everything or not

The books are so "one size fits all". Agreed with the anxiety too.

 

 

While I was on JSA, they would be really aggressive and threaten to take away benefits if I didn't go for the jobs they found. It got to the point where I got changed on to Incapacity as my dr signed me off sick because of the pressure that they were putting me under.

It is getting harder all the time to even get to the interview stage. They all want confident, good social skills, working in groups etc.

Credit where its due to my local Jobcentre staff, they've been brilliant. They annotated my agreement to show that my disability had an impact on work that I should not have direct face to face or telephone customer contact, and the Disability adviser assured me that if any other staff there were threatening towards me then he would deal with that. When looking through vacancies at regular appointments my usual adviser knows what work I am capable of, and about my disability, so knows that if a job is primarily about reception and telephone work then it would be unrealistic to go for. If that is just stated as a small part, with other stuff that I could do, the consensus is go for it but let them know about my AS to see if they may compromise, as the Jobcentre do a grant for most permanent jobs. It is sad to read how it got to the stage you had to be signed onto Incapacity.

 

Quite agree how it is so hard to get even to interview stage though. What is really needed would be for a wider geographic roll-out of Prospects and other possibilities for someone to go-between disabled applicants and employers. When I got the NAS I Exist e-mails to send to my MP and social services, I inserted text into the templates to say this kind of thing needed to be put in place for those with AS most able to work overall, but being routinely denied work when "good communication", "confidence" etc is spewed over so many job specs.

 

Good to share everyone's experiences, thanks for adding to the thread.

[Catfish]

hi,

 

one of my friends has been looking for a job for 2 years now and has had nearly 40 interviews, only 1 resulted in a job, which then only lasted 1 week because apparently they made a administration mistake. he goes to job centre on a regular basis but theres not much they can do, he desperatly wants a job but no one wants to take him on.

[warrenpenalver]

IM finding it hard to get work too!! In 5 months ive had only 1 interview from 241 applications!!! Some of that is the lack of work due to the economic climate, some of that is also a lack of transferrable skills from my Navy career and a annoying amount is from rejections when they ask for more information about why i left the navy.

 

I cant avoid the question as all my discharge paperwork says medical discharge on it!! And i cant lie to them.

 

It would help if the Government actually enforced all the disability discrimination act because writing the law doesnt make employers comply with it!

[NobbyNobbs]

i'm in the same situation, endless applications, not even getting to interview. ive managed to get into the jobcentre WORKSTEP program and its been great. my support person has already foudn something to suit me and is trying to get me a work trial to check its fine and encourage them to hire me rather than an NT. the job is at a library so my AS traits are actually benefits in that one. i can spot a missing book a mile off!

[warrenpenalver]

whats this workstep program??? the program im on is for long term unemployed and doesnt really do much like that just intensive jobsearching and CV/interview skills. Only after 7 weeks are they considering job trials but they are trials with no potential employment just the promise of a reference.

[chris54]

My wife was on one job thing after another for about 4 years and none of them ever led to any employment, she is at the present and has been for 9 year on long term incapacity benefit and right fed up with not having a job.

[pearl]

IM finding it hard to get work too!! In 5 months ive had only 1 interview from 241 applications!!! Some of that is the lack of work due to the economic climate, some of that is also a lack of transferrable skills from my Navy career and a annoying amount is from rejections when they ask for more information about why i left the navy.

 

I cant avoid the question as all my discharge paperwork says medical discharge on it!! And i cant lie to them.

 

It would help if the Government actually enforced all the disability discrimination act because writing the law doesnt make employers comply with it!

 

Warren, have you considered security work? Mr p gets lots of ex-service peeps at the jobcentre, & many find it hard to gain employment so its not just an AS thing (though I'm not minimising that at all). He finds that many of them find a niche in security work. (Sorry if you've already gone down this route)

 

So frustrating reading the posts on here - "knowing" many of you as I do you have so many talents to offer & need an employer to give you a chance. That is what happened to JP, & he's doing well at our city council - he got lucky.

 

[Catfish]

while i have the chance to bring it up,

 

i work with children which was a carrer change for me, now having AS and working with children was seen by alot of people as a really bad thing, i was refused from a number of colleges saying i wouldent pass!!!, i have since completed my level 1 with full marks and and now completing my level 2, so as well as work, training providers can be very discriminating.

 

apparently alot of Aspies go for jobs in admin, although its always good to no wot you actually want to do.

 

 

 

[NobbyNobbs]

workstep is a government scheme to help disabled and other 'layaabouts' to get work. the people who have a real reason for not getting a job i understand. so for me, the person will help me look for jobs, try to get work trials with the sole aim of the employer then keeping me rather than hiring someone else, they explain to the potential employer about AS and my strengths, plus any adaptations and limitations. they then provide support for both me and the employer to keep me in the job ie communications support and advice on how to get the best out of me... it sounds great and certainly so far ive been impressed.

 

i know there are several worksomething schemes, you might be on the workpath one which is for anyone who is having trouble finding a job. my jobcentre had a leaflet about working when disabled and that had the details of the programs in. i then asked about that one and they signed me over to the place that deals with that straight away.

 

i wanted to work with children, i'm good at it and work well with the kids, but i do not want to do an NVQ, as this would be going backwards from my degree and noone will interview me without an NVQ3, so i'm giving up on that one for a while until the government gives up forcing these NVQs on people.

[Catfish]

hi Nobbnobbs,

 

whats your degree in?

 

dont see it like that lol, the more qualifications you have the better, child care, its hard work but i wouldent swap it for anything.

[warrenpenalver]

Warren, have you considered security work? Mr p gets lots of ex-service peeps at the jobcentre, & many find it hard to gain employment so its not just an AS thing (though I'm not minimising that at all). He finds that many of them find a niche in security work. (Sorry if you've already gone down this route)

Yes i have been applying for security work but the job scheme I'm on will not fund the SIA license until they are convinced its the only way to get a job!! Ive applied for several jobs which didnt need SIA as on job training was provided but the one i got interview for i did very well at interview but didnt get the job because i didnt have SIA!!! This is despite thier paperwork saying SIA NOT needed!!! I was livid as id rung them to make sure they really meant "no SIA"!! Total waste of my time!!!! They even said id have got the job if i had SIA!! Annoying as thats still not enough to convince the job scheme to fund training!! That was the NHS who interviewed me too so it seems even big organisations havent got their stuff in order!!!!

 

I might be able to source some money out the Navy to fund training for an SIA as it seems its the only way im going to get work at present. I have been offered work in "Private Military Contracting" in the gulf, but to be frank, yes its VERY well paid but i dont think it will do my mental health any goodand the risks are very high.

[NobbyNobbs]

hi Nobbnobbs,

 

whats your degree in?

 

dont see it like that lol, the more qualifications you have the better, child care, its hard work but i wouldent swap it for anything.

my degree is in American studies. not useful but thats what seemed like a good idea at 16

 

my mothers doing an NVQ3 at the moment and i couldn't bear to do something like that. its all so shallow and you dont need to actually know anything, you just have to be able to read a book and change words around... not for me.

 

i already have a lot of experience doing much harder work with children than in child care so i know i can do it. i'll just sit here waiting for employers to realise that having experience is better than reading a book

[Tally]

NobbyNobbs, I think if you wait until employers value experience over qualifications, you could be waiting a very long time. If anything, qualifications are likely to count for more and more. If an NVQ could be your ticket to getting a job, it is not a backward step. It might be boring for you, but you should pass it without too much effort. Maybe you just need to work the system in order to get what you want out of it. Your experience is what will help you keep your job and earn the respect of your colleagues.

[oxgirl]

I'm starting to get severely worried about my lad's future. He's nearly 15 and has become very disillusioned with education and will probably come out of school with few, if any, GCSEs. He is talented in science and we had high hopes of him getting top marks in the three sciences, but he's lost confidence and, because he hasn't got the help in tests he needs, only got 30% in a test last week when he's used to getting 98% and being top of the class. This has seriously knocked his confidence and he's very depressed and is giving up. My worry is he'll want to leave education at 16 but won't have the social skills or independence or confidence to land any kind of job for himself and he'll be stuck at home in his room 24/7 with no friends and no life and I'm starting to get very, very scared.

 

~ Mel ~

[pearl]

Yes i have been applying for security work but the job scheme I'm on will not fund the SIA license until they are convinced its the only way to get a job!! Ive applied for several jobs which didnt need SIA as on job training was provided but the one i got interview for i did very well at interview but didnt get the job because i didnt have SIA!!! This is despite thier paperwork saying SIA NOT needed!!! I was livid as id rung them to make sure they really meant "no SIA"!! Total waste of my time!!!! They even said id have got the job if i had SIA!! Annoying as thats still not enough to convince the job scheme to fund training!! That was the NHS who interviewed me too so it seems even big organisations havent got their stuff in order!!!!

 

I might be able to source some money out the Navy to fund training for an SIA as it seems its the only way im going to get work at present. I have been offered work in "Private Military Contracting" in the gulf, but to be frank, yes its VERY well paid but i dont think it will do my mental health any goodand the risks are very high.

 

Thats sooo frustrating Warren. My brother recently moved into security work to see him through to retirement, but he had a pay off from his previous employers to fund his SIA. It didnt cost that much, though I know thats all relative. And, it was a networking tool. He met someone on the course who got him an interview at the firm who now employs him. Yes, definitely avoid the Gulf, from what you said its not for you.

 

[Canopus]

IM finding it hard to get work too!! In 5 months ive had only 1 interview from 241 applications!!! Some of that is the lack of work due to the economic climate, some of that is also a lack of transferrable skills from my Navy career and a annoying amount is from rejections when they ask for more information about why i left the navy.

 

I cant avoid the question as all my discharge paperwork says medical discharge on it!! And i cant lie to them.

 

It would help if the Government actually enforced all the disability discrimination act because writing the law doesnt make employers comply with it!

 

I think part of your problem is that you live in a town that verges on an economic wasteland. Stoke is one of the worst places for jobs in England. You would probably have found something if you lived in Hampshire. My recommendation is to take a vocational course in something that leads to a job you would like, then move to somewhere where jobs are more plentiful.

 

[chris54]

 

catfish.

 

I was a childminder for about 6 years.

It is only since giving that up that I realise I have AS.

I did lots of training and never had any problems.

[chris54]

i wanted to work with children, i'm good at it and work well with the kids, but i do not want to do an NVQ, as this would be going backwards from my degree and no one will interview me without an NVQ3, so i'm giving up on that one for a while until the government gives up forcing these NVQs on people.

 

Hi NobbyNobbs

 

Just a thought, have you considered childminding. I think you said you lived with parent, that is OK if they agree to work from their house. You need to do CM course first.

 

Are there any nanny agencies in your area, if so approach them but I don't think you will get away without doing NVQs or equivalent in childcare.

 

I don't agree with you that doing NVQs when you have a degree is a backward step.

If it is in a different area then you have to start from square one.

I'm am/was a qualified electrician, studied for 5 years, but when I went into child care I had to start at the bottom.

 

I Know that you will find NVQs to easy but then you will get through them quickly and can then move on to higher things.

Edited November 2, 2008 by chris54

[NobbyNobbs]

i live with my parents who are foster carers and i do respite and support work for them. we looked into childminding for me because the house is already child-proofed from the fostering and full of toys, cots and everything else you could possibly need, but after phoning the regulator people 3 times they still haven't sent the information pack so my mother gave up and i can't make the call on my own. if i'm still out of work in a year and my mother is working (she quit when we had a 3 child placement, but now thats gone is looking for outside work again) i'll look into it again.

 

i think part of my dislike for the NVQ is that its a bit insulting that i'm having to backtrack because i worked hard in school and did GCSEs and A levels instead of the GNVQ/NVQ track (which when i went through the school system was what the less able kids did) and now i'm the one having to fight for work when if i'd sat back at school i could've already got what i needed. its a crazy world sometimes. someone says 'you need to do and NVQ' and my brain fires back but they said i was too clever for that 10 years ago, so whats changed?'

 

i'll probably wind up doing the NVQ at some point, or go into foster care and do the child NVQ for that... which for some bizarre reason also isn't good enough!

 

i can completely understand what your son's feeling oxgirl, i went through the same thing at that point. the expectation shifts from teachers telling you what to do to you having to work it out for yourself and that just doesn't go down well with a lot of AS people. i hope he gets the support he needs to help bring his confidence back up.

[Canopus]

i think part of my dislike for the NVQ is that its a bit insulting that i'm having to backtrack because i worked hard in school and did GCSEs and A levels instead of the GNVQ/NVQ track (which when i went through the school system was what the less able kids did) and now i'm the one having to fight for work when if i'd sat back at school i could've already got what i needed. its a crazy world sometimes. someone says 'you need to do and NVQ' and my brain fires back but they said i was too clever for that 10 years ago, so whats changed?'

 

A degree in American studies isn't a particularly useful tool in the real world. There are people who say that the purpose of a degree is to show you can learn and the subject is merely a thin veneer. The fact is, degrees are not equal when it comes to employment and some subjects are next to useless. Even the much criticised media studies and the noddy degree in golf studies are probably more useful in the real world than a traditional arts or humanities degree.

 

I went down a highly academic route but would probably have done better if I went down a more vocational route. I just wasn't given enough advice on what direction to take and led to believe vocational subjects were for people of lower academic ability.

 

[warrenpenalver]

I think part of your problem is that you live in a town that verges on an economic wasteland. Stoke is one of the worst places for jobs in England. You would probably have found something if you lived in Hampshire. My recommendation is to take a vocational course in something that leads to a job you would like, then move to somewhere where jobs are more plentiful.

I cant pick and choose where to live easily!! I have a mortgage and in the present economic climate I have no hope in hell of getting a new mortgage!!! I wouldnt get a 1 bed flat down south for the value of my current house and im loath to sell up and rent as i worked hard for ten years to get my own place and now having lost the career i dont want to loose the house too.

 

I cant really do any vocational courses for the jobs i want to do, its either on job training or do the qualifications first, and experience counts for a lot. Being unemployed means i cant fund training myself.

[chris54]

Hi again NobbyNobbs

 

What they do at school are foundation and level one NVQs.

 

I would have thought that you would go in at at leas level 2 if not level 3.

 

To be honest a level 1 qualification If you can get your name right then you can get one.

 

I think all the qualifications I did are 2 and 3. None of them NVQs !

 

Level 2 = O level

Level 3 = A level= Supervisory level

Level 4 = Degree level= Management level

 

Most areas are keen to recruit more CM and run regular briefing sessions when you will get the registration pack.

OFSTED have a help line if you have any problems.

I don't see why you cant be the one to register.

 

Local councils are given money to provide training for childcare workers. Some councils provide CM with free training.

Edited November 3, 2008 by chris54

[Canopus]

I cant really do any vocational courses for the jobs i want to do, its either on job training or do the qualifications first, and experience counts for a lot. Being unemployed means i cant fund training myself.

 

What sort of jobs interest you? Security work is supposed to be an unsuitable career for most people with AS unless they are built like a ten ton stack of bricks. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that people not cut out for a career in the armed forces are unlikely to be successful working as security guards, police officers, firefighters, or in emergency services.

 

[pearl]

Depends on the kind of security work I suppose Canopus. My bro gets some really cushy numbers, looking after empty old peeps homes, bit of gate work at a delivery depot, that kind of thing.

[bid]

my mothers doing an NVQ3 at the moment and i couldn't bear to do something like that. its all so shallow and you dont need to actually know anything, you just have to be able to read a book and change words around... not for me.

 

Mmmm, as an NVQ 3 Assessor I don't think that's very fair!

 

My candidates put in a great deal of work and effort, and an NVQ 3 is equivalent to an A level.

 

Bid

[warrenpenalver]

What sort of jobs interest you? Security work is supposed to be an unsuitable career for most people with AS unless they are built like a ten ton stack of bricks. I may be wrong, but I get the impression that people not cut out for a career in the armed forces are unlikely to be successful working as security guards, police officers, firefighters, or in emergency services.

Door people roles I'd agree with you, but you can be a complete wimp physically and still be a good security guard (and technically a good soldier too). Are you saying I'm not "cut out" for the armed forces??? I survived for 10 years so my professional ability was not in question. I became ill because of a combination of depression and PTSD caused due to bullying and traumatic events (some navy caused some not) and the fact my routines were screwed up by forcing me to seek promotion i didnt want!! BUt the Navy have admitted responsibility for my depression and PTSD hence why i get a War Pension.

 

AS people can actually do very well in the right area of the armed forces as most of the armed forces is based VERY heavily on routine. For example I joined the submarine service in late 2003 after coming back from the gulf and on ballistic missile submarines i had a perfect routine. I knew exactly when i was away or a home, had routines for EVERY thing i had to do in my job and even the day to day routine at sea was a simple 6 hours on, 6 hours off watch. Even emergencys are covered by routines (albiet quick ones!).

 

Someone with AS could quite easily survive in the RAF or Navy in the right roles as long as they can get on with people in a superficial way to get the job done. For example my role as an officer was mainly on the chart table navigating the submarine, or on the bridge keeping an eye out for ships and using mental maths to work out relative motion and reporting it to the Captain. Yes i was in charge of people, but the relationship with those people is on a superficial and regulated manor. Orders are given in a set way rather than direct social skills related communication and man management. The falling down is when in social environments outside the workplace (ie downtime etc) i could not relate to the team and unfortunately a lot of respect is earned outside of doing your job. Obviously that can leave you vulnerable to bullying as in my case. BUt then thats a potential feature of any job!

 

In the Army again for lower ranks everything is governed by routine, even up to corporal/Sargeant roles for example field tactics are all detailed at that level, section attacks etc all scripted and you are taught what to do in each situation. At Higher levels a more dynamic approach is needed and that may be difficult in some cases with AS.

 

With firefighting again its all learning techniques and procedures, similar in the Police although the people skills may make things harder but then that can be broken down into routines and procedures too in many cases and as usually you are paired with another officer in most duties so the two of you can compensate for each others strengths and weaknesses. Although someone with AS might be quite amusing as a traffic cop as no one would get a warning

 

I guess even in all the armed and emergency services there are places where people with AS can work and fit in depending on individual difficulties.

 

Depends on the kind of security work I suppose Canopus. My bro gets some really cushy numbers, looking after empty old peeps homes, bit of gate work at a delivery depot, that kind of thing.

Theres a whole range to security work ranging from Private Military Contracting, close Protection, Door work, retail security, hospital security, warehouse security, home security etc etc.

 

Mmmm, as an NVQ 3 Assessor I don't think that's very fair!

 

My candidates put in a great deal of work and effort, and an NVQ 3 is equivalent to an A level.

 

Bid

I think NVQ's had a bad reputation when they first came out, like many new government educational ideas often do. (just as many people looked down on GCSE's when they first came out). I think NVQ's are more useful these days especially for non-academic jobs (which are the majority these days!!) as it shows both experience and knowledge of an actual job role.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

Mmmm, as an NVQ 3 Assessor I don't think that's very fair!

 

My candidates put in a great deal of work and effort, and an NVQ 3 is equivalent to an A level.

 

Bid

i'm not questioning the effort put in by NVQ students, i'm saying that since i already have 3 A levels and very nearly a degree (6 months and counting ) its going backwards for me. i'm not about to do my GCSEs again either (got 13 of them already)

 

granted if i had no knowledge/experience of the area i can understand i'd need training but i already have the knowledge and more experience than i want at times! seems strange i'm categorically denied a chance at even an interview for the job because i dont have paper proving what i know. i'm also not keen on spending money on learning something i already know when i've just racked up �20,000 in loans for a degree thats now not worth the paper it'll be written on

 

Warren, i asked my job support people about funding the SIA thing, they said they send their people to courses (including the SIA) run by the shaw trust who fund training for people on incapacity and disability benefits to get them into work. might be worth a look into - i dont know what benefits you're on if any, but even if they can't help they might know somewhere that will.

[bid]

The point about NVQ, Nobby, is that you are observed actually doing the job in question, as opposed to having theoretical knowledge.

 

I have 2 degrees, but I still needed to do NVQ for my job. My attitude was that there are always new things to learn.

 

Bid

[warrenpenalver]

Warren, i asked my job support people about funding the SIA thing, they said they send their people to courses (including the SIA) run by the shaw trust who fund training for people on incapacity and disability benefits to get them into work. might be worth a look into - i dont know what benefits you're on if any, but even if they can't help they might know somewhere that will.

Dont go there with the benefits system at present!! :wallbash:

 

It might be something i try and reapply for in the future as only last friday the Navy has finally accepted responsibility for my "service" causing Depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and they say my level of disablement is 6-14% for those 2 conditions and not been assessed for "autistic personality traits" (not assessed as only the service caused conditions effect pension pay out hence the need for a quantifiable figure). I wasnt aware of any existing ICD10 diagnosis called "autistic personality traits" so I dont know where they made that up from or if that "diagnosis" is worth the paper its written on!!!

 

Just need to get my GP on my side as there has been zero transfer of care from navy to NHS and maybe having diagnosis in writing will help me get some support and help and maybe "autistic personality traits" might be enough to get the GP to put me forward for a proper assessment. I dont hold much hope as he was happy to dump me from the navys care of twice weekly counselling and twice weekly social worker visits to just antidepressants and nothing else. The navy is sending thier social worker all the way from Portsmouth to see me in my home and to try and sort out the NHS so hopefully that will help.

[pearl]

The point about NVQ, Nobby, is that you are observed actually doing the job in question, as opposed to having theoretical knowledge.

 

I have 2 degrees, but I still needed to do NVQ for my job. My attitude was that there are always new things to learn.

 

Bid

*nods* both my husband and daughter have done NVQs in addition to their degrees.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

i think i've decided i'll finish Mr Degree, then either do childminding (i called the regulatory people again today so hopefully this time they'll send the pack) or ask our family social worker about what i could do within SS.

 

i applied for the job the work people said but when they had phoned the man in charge of hiring he'd said they had loads of people apply which so far i've found to mean that they have better people to pick so back to hunting... i'm meant to get an interview for this one at least so hopefully i can dazzle them with my rain-man like ability to remember book titles and authors

[warrenpenalver]

"knowing" many of you as I do you have so many talents to offer & need an employer to give you a chance.

Do you know any action hero recruitment agencys??? or could you make me a cape??

 

I can do planes, helicopters, sail boats, power boats,big ships, submarines, cars, tanks and pedal bikes!! I can operate guns, fight fires, do first aid, fix things, destroy things, make things, and can cook a mean chilli!!!!

 

Any real A team type organisations with vacancys???

[warrenpenalver]

mmmmmm maybe i should get back with the real world!!

[pearl]

Shhhhhhh

 

If you share this information with the wrong people, I shall have to kill you