what is the expected keystage 2 level for 11yrs

[JsMum]

Is it level 4, as I was told, a friend of mine with a child with special needs got level 3 and they have told her its the expected level of an 11 yr old,

 

this cant be true surely, I understood it as a LEVEL 4.

 

What level would be regaurded as a special need at 11yr old for a level score.

 

JsMum

[Mumble]

Level 4 is the expected level at the end of KS2, Year 6.

 

There can't by the individual nature of SEN be an expected level for an SEN child.

[julie1]

I have just had a meeting with ed psy and speach and language thearpist, we did talk about my dd SATs results.

if a child scores between a 3-5 in there end of key stage 2 that is considered to be fine. A level 4 is just the average level of 11 years old.

Every child is different with there grades, my dd got 3 Ns which means she is working below the level 3 mark. I am not sure what her grade is but i think she has a level 2 in the three main subjects. My dd has a statement which started last term. So we are hopeful her rate of progress will improve.

[JsMum]

if a child scores between a 3-5 in there end of key stage 2 that is considered to be fine.

 

This is what concerns me, to be considered fine at level 3-5 even though J had diffulties attending school he still scored a level 3 for two subjects, he was exempt from one of them, but if a child who has difficulties and has a statement already because of a disability how can they be reasured that the child is fine with level 3- 5, when are they considered not fine. Level 2 or lower?

 

I personally dont know how J did get the score he did for his, he has hardly accessed his provisions, progress could well be interprited by the fact he has raised a level, but fact is he has severely struggled in mainstream setting I cant believe that they dont respond to a childs need until its lower than a 3, if J didnt have a statement he wouldnt meet the need now as its considered fine with level 3 or above.

 

J has been assessed as having difficulties with learning and understanding at a percentage of 0.01percent, yet under the criteria to level 3 he wouldnt raise flags, how can that be so, my friends child has similair processing and learning issues, though doesnt have a statement because she has level 3s.

 

Doesnt make sence?

 

Actually do I make sence?

 

JsMum

Edited August 8, 2008 by JsMum

[Enid]

Yes! Js Mum perfect sense to me, my son was excluded at the time, so didnt take any, but would probably have got 2/3, but thats the problem with OUR kids, if they are bright and score high in tests, mine dosnt actually, but many do, they are considered to not need help. <'> Enid

[JsMum]

Yes! Js Mum perfect sense to me, my son was excluded at the time, so didnt take any, but would probably have got 2/3, but thats the problem with OUR kids, if they are bright and score high in tests, mine dosnt actually, but many do, they are considered to not need help. <'> Enid

 

 

Phew, I thought I wasnt making any sence, the mad thing is J is 5 years behind in litracey based subjects, 5 years behind in understanding and comprehension, he has severe difficulties in education with the diagnosis and confirmed disabilites he has already, yet his SATs could give the impression he is fine, there is a few boys in Js schools with similair difficulties, but have no diagnosis, no statement and have level 3s and 4s.

 

My point is just because they have a level 3-5 doesnt mean there fine, they dont require support, assistance, trained experienced staff, statements of need and specialist privisions because they do.

 

My friend has taken the advice now her child is fine, and is very confident she will further progress in high school, why do I feel very different about my child, who already has a statement, I dont understand how other parents can feel so confident of the opinions of there SENCOs and Teaching staff.

 

JsMum

[Kazzen161]

It is not just about the score he got, it is about what score he SHOULD have got. He should have gone up 2 levels since his Year 2 SATs (so if he got level 2s, he would have been expected to get 4s this time). Also what level would he be expected to get with his level of intelligence - a bright child would be expected to get level 5s - if they only got level 3s then that would be cause for concern.

 

the levels are split into a, b and c - so he could be nearly a 4 or nearly a 2.

[julie1]

Let me just explain its not that i think a child is doing fine at a level 3-5 its just how it was explained to me.

I think that SATs hide some of the problems children have in school. in year 2 my dd got level 2 in every thing which made the school think that she is doing ok. I new different and it has taken until year 6 SATs to prove what i am saying, she is still at a level 2. With my daughter the increase of language skills needed to acess the curriculum are just not possible for her. She has a severve language disorder.

[JsMum]

Julia sorry for persuming it was you who was suggesting level 3-5 is fine, but like you it was a senco who said my friends daughter is now fine, she is not and will need considerable amount of help, my friend somehow feels happier now she is going to high school when Im the opposite because I know the implications of Js disabilities will have on him in high school, if anything the pressure and work will increase, the ability to interact and socail will be at a higher expectation not just from his teachers but his peers of some how are going to be 2-3 years older, add on top Js suggested age of 7yrs old socailly he will struggle a lot in a mainstream education enviroement, J has just been assessed too has having a severe language disorder too, yet he has been discharged from Speech and Language Departement year after year they have totally missed his communication and social difficulties.

 

Yet he was recieving half an hour a week, anger management and daily exclusions from his playtimes because of his behaviour, which was a result of his needs not been met adequately.

 

His first sats where reasoable again level 2s but his litracey was level 1, yet at the time he really could not read anything.

 

His score is off the chart it could actually be lower than the suggested result as he scored the lowest score.

 

My friend is now very eager for the new term to start, me Im full of dread, how could two parents with similair issues have such different outlooks on education in mainstream education.

 

Again for any new comers we are fighting for a specialist school J has a average IQ and capable of higher scores, but his disabilities are having a massive impact on his learning, yet by his SATs score two level 3 seem fine, but he far from it in his learning enviroment.

 

JsMum

[julie1]

dear jsmum

thats ok not to worry. I understand your worrys i also have great conserns about my dd for next year, and am also fighting for a different school my dd. Our tribunal date is set for October. My dd language problem was also over looked for several years and was only picked up on because i requested a statuatory ass, and part of my request was for a speach and language assesment. This is not her only area of difficulty, she also has less than 1 percent in all visual perceptual tests, and most of the test results the ed psy did were below the age of 7 years. With all the problems she has you would think she would have lots of support but sadly thats not the case. My dd is to well behaved she needs to make more fuss and get noticed.

I agree with you expectations of a high school are v high and you are right to be concerned about your childs education and well being. I only hope that yuor son gets all the help he deserves. Did your son have a reader and writter for his SATs that could boost his results. Are you going to tribunal to get your sons statement changed? perhaps for a speach and language thearpist to work with your son. Also a bit of advice that was given and i found to be v helpful try to get your sons LSA to be Elklan trainned. This has realy helped my dd and her LSA interact with each other. The school should no about this course

[JsMum]

Julia yes J did have a scriber and she read all the questions, though he struggled with the language as he doesnt understand, yet he might actually know the answer, so it was very frustrating for him, he is much more confident in Maths and Science however, but English and Language is where he is really struggling.

 

J didnt really access his TA because the actual enviorment was wrong for him, the noise, the distraction, he became anxious and began to refuse to attend school, enforcement was met with aggression and extream aggression to the point he was almost accomadated by the LAC because he was a risk, but home support was provided, he hasnt accessed much of his statement because the classroom he was expected to learn in was too much for him to cope in.

 

It has been extreamly stressful and now the LEA want to do it all again with High School, CAMHS wont sign him off sick until my J is in breakdown mode again, yes again as he has already been broken, yet the CAMHS have so much faith that LEA will do the right thing that they say they cant intervene because the LEA have a responsibility to provide the right support and provision.

 

The LEA are making J attend in the meantime to a mainstream Secondary, knowing we are going to tribunal, J didnt attend the last few weeks of term because he became too distressed, nothing has changed, yet they are prepared to put J throw more stress in September.

 

I know this will cause my son to become very ill, the LEA simply dont care, that is how I feel.

 

JsMum

Edited August 9, 2008 by JsMum

[julie1]

the only thing the LEA care about is saving money, and the only thing is its always at our childrens expense

[gothschild]

Hi J'smum,

 

My son got mostly level 4's in his sats which made it look like he would cope in mainstream high school.... WRONG!

A year later and he is now going into a ASD unit attached to a mainstream high school, his first year of secondary school was a complete waste of his time.

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

gothschild x

[Bard]

That's the problem of tests that don't begin to cover the complexities of the whole child.

Mine got 5s at KS2 with no assistance, but that didn't begin to reflect his other needs in mainstream.

[JsMum]

That's the problem of tests that don't begin to cover the complexities of the whole child.

Mine got 5s at KS2 with no assistance, but that didn't begin to reflect his other needs in mainstream.

 

 

Thats the real difficulty on the whole educationally and also especially difficult in general society,

 

J is considered very complex try finding him special school has been absaloutly frustrating, he needs one that will help all his disabilities and abilities, not an easy task.

 

JsMum

[Zosmum]

Hi

 

Z scored mostly 1 and 2 in her SAT's but in maths she scored N. ( not scoring enough to reach any level). She had a reader and a scribe for the SAT's but the enviroment didn't help her.

 

In her end of yr 7 tests she had a reader and a scribe for some but not all her tests. Her results were all over the place. In RE she had 2 tests, 1 with help the other without. In the 1 with assistance she attained 84%, I was amazed but in the 1 without assistance she only attained 28%.

 

I am under the impression that kids like ours are and always will be up there with the best of them but getting the schools to realise that these kids are completely different when it comes to the way they learn and they need completely different environments to be able to learn to their full potential is the really difficult part.

They often see a child as being able to cope and attaining a reasonable level in tests and assume they are working to their full potential

 

These levels are more for the benefit of the schools and not the kids so I really wouldn't pay to attention to them. Just keep on at the school if you think more help is needed and wanted

[harmony]

I think I must have a totally bizarre child!! she scored 6a and 6b in everything at end of yr 6 . Yet had been the bottom of the class all year, with special needs help. one 2 one time etc etc. Now at end yr 7 she has done it again. Disaster for whole year!! falling behind, then exams come and gets A's in virtually everything. The teachers can't explain it neither can she. Yet her AS needs are such that she needs help constantly as can't organise her life, her writing is unreadable ( uses lap top at school) she can't even remember her own address. there was no cheating going on, and we gave her a few tests at home under exam conditions, again really high marks.

Our AS kids are bright cookies, they all have differing needs, and what ever grades they get at school, are not accurate reflections of what is really going on inside. Her school is still surporting her as a special needs child, as she has so many issues. It will be interesting to see if this odd exam thing continues as she gets older.

 

Harmony x

[darky]

These Sat levels drive me crazy My son has done his year 6 Sat's and got level 3c in maths. Level 4 is the level expected for his age HOWEVER in year 4 he was only at level 1B, so that is a massive improvement. My eldest son was achieving level 3's in year 2, so I could say my son is 4 years behind what my eldest son was at his age. The SAT tests are an indication of teaching ability. There are guideline averages, but average has a broad span. I have a sheet here from the LA which indicates what is classed as school action, schools action plus and statement action. Technically none of my children would be considered low enough achieving to access the help. Believe it or not, the guidelines the SENCO had are level 1 by year 6. Up to year 6 it is P levels. Above that does not consider to be low enough on acedemic achievement alone. To say I was shocked was an understatement.

 

I am not a fan of SAT's at all. According to the the school my son was at before, in year 2 he scored level 2's. So how come in year 4 he only scored 1's and 2's? Consequently he was grouped in the top groups, and then he completely span out, starting messing himself and getting anxious.