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      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   06/04/2017

      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   Depression and other mental health difficulties are common amongst people on the autistic spectrum and their carers.   People who are affected by general mental health difficulties are encouraged to receive and share information, support and advice with other forum members, though it is important to point out that this exchange of information is generally based on personal experience and opinions, and is not a substitute for professional medical help.   There is a list of sources of mental health support here: <a href="http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=18801" target="_blank">Mental Health Resources link</a>   People may experience a more serious crisis with their mental health and need urgent medical assistance and advice. However well intentioned, this is not an area of support that the forum can or should be attempting to offer and we would urge members who are feeling at risk of self-harm or suicide to contact either their own GP/health centre, or if out of hours contact NHS Direct on 0845 4647 or to call emergency services 999.   We want to reassure members that they have our full support in offering and seeking advice and information on general mental health issues. Members asking for information in order to help a person in their care are seeking to empower both themselves and those they represent, and we would naturally welcome any such dialogue on the forum.   However, any posts which are deemed to contain inference of personal intent to self-harm and/or suicide will be removed from the forum and that person will be contacted via the pm system with advice on where to seek appropriate help.   In addition to the post being removed, if a forum member is deemed to indicate an immediate risk to themselves, and are unable to be contacted via the pm system, the moderating team will take steps to ensure that person's safety. This may involve breaking previous confidentiality agreements and/or contacting the emergency services on that person's behalf.   Sometimes posts referring to self-harm do not indicate an immediate risk, but they may contain material which others find inappropriate or distressing. This type of post will also be removed from the public forum at the moderator's/administrator's discretion, considering the forum user base as a whole.   If any member receives a PM indicating an immediate risk and is not in a position (or does not want) to intervene, they should forward the PM to the moderating team, who will deal with the disclosure in accordance with the above guidelines.   We trust all members will appreciate the reasoning behind these guidelines, and our intention to urge any member struggling with suicidal feelings to seek and receive approproiate support from trained and experienced professional resources.   The forum guidelines have been updated to reflect the above.   Regards,   The mod/admin team
Kevin A

Aspies better looking

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hazma   

My son is stunning I have to admit.He is very angelic looking with the most beautiful eyes and long lashes.

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Yes, two professionals have told me this, in their experience Aspergers children are good looking. One of them said it was Natures way of compensating and to ensure other people treated them favourably.

All I know that of the three boys (mine included) I know with Aspergers they are very nice looking children.

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Jannih   

I think I look young for my age , but not this young!!

 

When I was 49 yrs old , I was asked if I was 18 plus in a Wetherspoons pub. My mum fell about laughing and said the barman needed contact lenses !

 

 

 

 

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baddad   
Yes, two professionals have told me this...

One of them said it was Natures way of compensating and to ensure other people treated them favourably.

 

:lol::lol:

 

Professional what, exactly? :lol::rolleyes:

If there are professionals out there coming out with this kind of drivel, please please PLEASE report them!

 

Just out of interest, does that mean all the 'aesthetically challenged' kids I see at clinics, schools etc have been misdiagnosed? Should they be doubly disenfranchised for being autistic AND ugly?

Our children are children... nature/god/allah (whatever you believe in) isn't compensating for them; by deninition that implies that nature/god/allah (whatever you believe in) has something to apologise for, and while I'm perfectly happy with the notion that if there is a god of any shape or description he needs to try a bit harder, I don't think his/her/it is very big on apologies or accountability. :)

 

 

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zaman   
:lol::lol:

 

Professional what, exactly? :lol::rolleyes:

If there are professionals out there coming out with this kind of drivel, please please PLEASE report them!

 

Just out of interest, does that mean all the 'aesthetically challenged' kids I see at clinics, schools etc have been misdiagnosed? Should they be doubly disenfranchised for being autistic AND ugly?

Our children are children... nature/god/allah (whatever you believe in) isn't compensating for them; by deninition that implies that nature/god/allah (whatever you believe in) has something to apologise for, and while I'm perfectly happy with the notion that if there is a god of any shape or description he needs to try a bit harder, I don't think his/her/it is very big on apologies or accountability. :)

Put much better than I could ever manage.

 

For what it is worth, I know of quite a few autistic people who aren't remotely attractive, but I'm sure their mothers love them. Same as NTs really. :whistle:

Edited by zaman

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Kevin A   
Put much better than I could ever manage.

 

For what it is worth, I know of quite a few autistic people who aren't remotely attractive, but I'm sure their mothers love them. Same as NTs really. :whistle:

Someone better arrest Tony Attwood and his highly distinguished research team in that case as this is what is contained on page 304 of his book, the very highly researched and regarded; 'Complete guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

 

CHOICE OF PARTNER

 

From my clinical experience and the research of Maxine Aston (2003), men with Asperger's syndrome have several positive attributes for a prospective partner. The first meeting may be through a shared interest such as the care of animals, similar religious beliefs or studying the same course. Many women describe the first impressino of their partner, who at this stage has not had a diagnosis, as someone who is kind, attentive and slightly immature; the highly desirable, 'Handsome and silent stranger.'

Children with Aspergers are often perceived as having Angelic faces, and as adults as having symmetrical facial features that are aesthetically appealing. The person may be more handsome than previous partners and considered a, 'good catch', in terms of looks, especially if the woman has doubts regarding her self-esteem and physical attractiveness. The lack of social and conversational skills can lead to his being perceived as the 'silent stranger', whose social abilities will be unlocked and transformed by a partner who is an expert on empathy and socialising. There can be a strong maternal compassion for the persons limited social abilities, with the belief that his social confusion and lack of social confidence were due to his circumstances as a child, and can be repaired over time; love will heal everything.

 

That's proof of my thread lines pertinence and refutation to anyone who denies this tendency exists, although, I'll grant you, there are exceptions. Not everyone in China has dark hair but most do so that we can generalise about what a Chinese person looks like without appearing racist or unrepresentative. It's the same with facial attractivenesss and Asperger's.

Edited by Kevin A

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baddad   
Someone better arrest Tony Attwood and his highly distinguished research team in that case as this is what is contained on page 304 of his book, the very highly researched and regarded; 'Complete guide to Asperger's Syndrome.

 

CHOICE OF PARTNER

 

From my clinical experience and the research of Maxine Aston (2003), men with Asperger's syndrome have several positive attributes for a prospective partner. The first meeting may be through a shared interest such as the care of animals, similar religious beliefs or studying the same course. Many women describe the first impressino of their partner, who at this stage has not had a diagnosis, as someone who is kind, attentive and slightly immature; the highly desirable, 'Handsome and silent stranger.'

Children with Aspergers are often perceived as having Angelic faces, and as adults as having symmetrical facial features that are aesthetically appealing. The person may be more handsome than previous partners and considered a, 'good catch', in terms of looks, especially if the woman has doubts regarding her self-esteem and physical attractiveness. The lack of social and conversational skills can lead to his being perceived as the 'silent stranger', whose social abilities will be unlocked and transformed by a partner who is an expert on empathy and socialising. There can be a strong maternal compassion for the persons limited social abilities, with the belief that his social confusion and lack of social confidence were due to his circumstances as a child, and can be repaired over time; love will heal everything.

 

That's proof of my thread lines pertinence and refutation to anyone who denies this tendency exists, although, I'll grant you, there are exceptions. Not everyone in China has dark hair but most do so that we can generalise about what a Chinese person looks like without appearing racist or unrepresentative. It's the same with facial attractivenesss and Asperger's.

 

Hi kevin :)

 

In the first section you list the things that a woman may first find attractive in a partner who is later diagnosed as autistic: Kind, attentive & slightly immature... these are character traits that have nothing to do with 'looks' whatsoever. The first two appeal to a woman for obvious reasons. The last is slightly less obvious, but one assumes 'slightly immature' would present as 'vulnerable' and appeal to mothering instincts. It might also imply a level of 'equality' that they haven't found with men who are more 'world wise' - which would dove-tail nicely with the first two points.

Moving on to the next point - angelic children/handsome men... Yes, many autistic children look angelic, and that look can certainly be enhanced by their 'far away' day-dreamy qualities. I think many have expressed that what looks appealing/angelic in a toddler becomes far less appealing in an older child, where 'day-dreamy' comes across as indifference and 'far away' is interpreted as ignorance, stupidity or sullen disobedience. It can be heart-breaking for a parent to find their child being negatively judged/disenfranchised/dismissed because of behaviours that are entirely natural to them and which have previously been perceived as positives, and I guess it would do little for the child's self-esteem either. I would add also though that most kids look angelic. Look at a school photo of a class full of six or seven year olds - how many out and out 'spuds' can you spot? Beautiful goes with the territory for small kids - it isn't until ten or eleven when other things start to happen that they begin to grow into their adult faces that they become really distinctive...

The next thing being described is that women with low self esteem or 'plain jane's' find themselves attracting men who would usually be out of their league! This doesn't imply that autistic men are generally better looking; it implies either that they have 'lower standards' (:o - Ladies I don't think that for a moment, BTW I'm just offering reasons why this might be the case), that they are attracted to a prospective partner's personality/qualities rather than 'looks' (more likely) or that they are rejected - presumably on account of other aspects of their autism - by women who are their equals in the 'looks' department.

Turn that on its head - rich or powerful men tend to attract far better looking partners than average, This doesn't in any way imply that rich, powerful men are generally better looking, it just means that they have other attractive 'qualities'. So it's not that adults with asperger's are better looking; it's just that there's (arguably) a tendency for autistic adults to have partners who are less attractive, and that judged by their partner's standards they appear better looking than their partner's 'average'.

Autistic adults run the whole gamut of beauty from head-turning to stomach-churning. It might be appealing to suggest that they are somehow 'blessed', as a group, in the looks department, but there isn't any real evidence to that effect...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the eyes of parents and loved ones come with rose coloured glasses fitted as standard.

 

:D

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TheNeil   
This doesn't imply that autistic men are generally better looking; it implies either that they have 'lower standards' (:o - Ladies I don't think that for a moment, BTW I'm just offering reasons why this might be the case), that they are attracted to a prospective partner's personality/qualities rather than 'looks' (more likely) or that they are rejected - presumably on account of other aspects of their autism - by women who are their equals in the 'looks' department.

 

As an autistic man, I take offence to this. Yes I'm personally attracted to a woman not purely because of the way that she looks (I'm not shallow in this respect), but looks are still very important. How a prospective partner looks is a very big part of why someone is 'attractive' and I don't know of any research that indicates that the autistic brain is any different in this respect to that of a non-autistic brain (any such assertion would, once again, attempt to 'pigeon hole' people rather than accept the basic fact that each person is an individual). Several of my past relationships (with both autistic and non-autistic women) have been with what you'd coloquially refer to as 'stunners' (and that's not just personal opinion).

 

To say that autistic men (although I suppose that the same could be said of autistic women) have 'lower standards', find attractiveness to be 'less important' or that they feel rejected by people who are 'equal' in terms of attractiveness, is something of a sweeping generalisation in exactly the same way that saying that all Autistic kids and adults are naturally better looking.

 

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Flora   
To say that autistic men (although I suppose that the same could be said of autistic women) have 'lower standards', find attractiveness to be 'less important' or that they feel rejected by people who are 'equal' in terms of attractiveness, is something of a sweeping generalisation in exactly the same way that saying that all Autistic kids and adults are naturally better looking.

 

TN, bd was joking. If you read the whole paragraph and not just the opening sentence, it is quite obvious (even to a devastatingly gorgeous, but stupid individual, such as myself :ph34r: ) that bd was using irony to make a point.

 

Flora

 

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Mumble   
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the eyes of parents and loved ones come with rose coloured glasses fitted as standard.

Except in the case of ASD individuals who have been to see Mr Jordan - in which case they may be rose, red, yellow, blue or green :lol: :lol: :whistle:

 

that they are attracted to a prospective partner's personality/qualities rather than 'looks'

It's all 'looks' where my infatuation with a certain Mr Mead is concerned - in such a case looks are the qualities... :wub: :wub:

 

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pearl   
TN, bd was joking. If you read the whole paragraph and not just the opening sentence, it is quite obvious (even to a devastatingly gorgeous, but stupid individual, such as myself :ph34r: ) that bd was using irony to make a point.

 

Flora

 

Which paragraph? Ironical or not, I didnt read anything as a joke?

 

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Flora   
Which paragraph? Ironical or not, I didnt read anything as a joke?

 

The paragraph that TN quoted in his post. The only way that anyone could read that at pure face value was if they thought the person writing it was genuinely unpleasant, superficial and humourless.... As we all know (or those that 'know him) that baddad is none of those things then I thought I'd point out the obvious ironical humour as TN appeared to have missed it and had obviously read it as 'fact'.

 

Flora

Edited by Flora

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Flora   
No, I dont think that at all. But I didnt take it as a joke, either.

 

I did though... Obviously!! :lol:

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Mumble   

Please don't get onto an argument - it's a really small point and not what this thread is about.

 

I actually did take it as BD joking (on that part) (or if not joking, being slightly humorous/ironic/whatever you want to call it) because of the use of exclamation marks, shocked smilies, the term 'ladies', lower standards in quotation marks etc.

 

Anyway, if anyone should be getting offended, it's me... :ph34r::unsure: (I'll leave people to puzzle over that one).

 

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bid   
Anyway, if anyone should be getting offended, it's me... :ph34r::unsure: (I'll leave people to puzzle over that one).

 

Tee hee, it's not that difficult! :devil:

 

Bid ;)

 

Anyway, I's sooo garjuss that people swoon as I pass by... :whistle:

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baddad   

Hi all -

 

Ooooooooooooooooonly me! :lol::lol:

 

No, Neil, I do not think autistic men (or women) have lower standards or that partners of autistic men (or women) have lower standards, and I agree with you that any suggestion that they did would be a sweeping generalisation.

I was refering to what the esteemable Mr Cohen had said (I really wish he'd stop all of that 'Borat' stuff - it so undermines his serious work ;)... if you read the quote from Kevin's post and my own post properly you'll see that! I dunno if 'ironic' is the right word but I certainly did have my tongue in cheek, and I did go out of the way to make the point that I didn't think it and that I was interpreting Borats Sasha Simon B Cohen's words at face value :)

 

I dunno - sometimes I think people are actually going out of their way to take offense :rolleyes: But that'd be just plain daft, wouldn't it :)

 

Just for the sake of clarity, SBC said:

 

The person may be more handsome than previous partners and considered a, 'good catch', in terms of looks, especially if the woman has doubts regarding her self-esteem and physical attractiveness

 

and I said:

 

The next thing being described is that women with low self esteem or 'plain jane's' find themselves attracting men who would usually be out of their league! This doesn't imply that autistic men are generally better looking; it implies either that they have 'lower standards' ( - Ladies I don't think that for a moment, BTW I'm just offering reasons why this might be the case), that they are attracted to a prospective partner's personality/qualities rather than 'looks' (more likely) or that they are rejected - presumably on account of other aspects of their autism - by women who are their equals in the 'looks' department.

 

I've emboldened the relevent bit that should have made it clear that I was commenting on SBC's comments and not making an observation of my own.

 

:D

 

 

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TheNeil   

Not wishing to be pedantic but it wasn't Baron-Cohen, Kevin was quoting Attwood.

 

And I wasn't actually questioning baddad, I was questioning the whole concept that he apparently derived from the original quote. Whether this is his own personal interpretation or whether it is merely what was originally intended by Attwood is irrelevant, it's the concept/implication that's inherantly flawed regardless who of who said it

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baddad   
Not wishing to be pedantic but it wasn't Baron-Cohen, Kevin was quoting Attwood.

 

Good point, even if it does ruin my Borat joke :)

 

And I wasn't actually questioning baddad, I was questioning the whole concept that he apparently derived from the original quote. Whether this is his own personal interpretation or whether it is merely what was originally intended by Attwood is irrelevant, it's the concept/implication that's inherantly flawed regardless who of who said it

 

Then perhaps you should have done what I did and challenged what Tony Attwood said, not my challenge of it. Apology accepted :)

 

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zaman   

 

 

From my clinical experience and the research of Maxine Aston (2003), men with Asperger's syndrome have several positive attributes for a prospective partner. The first meeting may be through a shared interest such as the care of animals, similar religious beliefs or studying the same course. Many women describe the first impressino of their partner, who at this stage has not had a diagnosis, as someone who is kind, attentive and slightly immature; the highly desirable, 'Handsome and silent stranger.'

Children with Aspergers are often perceived as having Angelic faces, and as adults as having symmetrical facial features that are aesthetically appealing. The person may be more handsome than previous partners and considered a, 'good catch', in terms of looks, especially if the woman has doubts regarding her self-esteem and physical attractiveness. The lack of social and conversational skills can lead to his being perceived as the 'silent stranger', whose social abilities will be unlocked and transformed by a partner who is an expert on empathy and socialising. There can be a strong maternal compassion for the persons limited social abilities, with the belief that his social confusion and lack of social confidence were due to his circumstances as a child, and can be repaired over time; love will heal everything.

 

That's proof of my thread lines pertinence and refutation to anyone who denies this tendency exists, although, I'll grant you, there are exceptions. Not everyone in China has dark hair but most do so that we can generalise about what a Chinese person looks like without appearing racist or unrepresentative. It's the same with facial attractivenesss and Asperger's.

Just because Tony Attwood wrote it, doesn't make it true, or provide proof to back this argument up as far as I'm concerned - I would certainly question how impirical the research was. In fact I find it all rather offensive to suggest (if I am reading this correctly) that women would have to have low self esteem to find autistic men attractive - why - because they couldn't catch an NT man? This argument makes sweeping generalisations about what is attractive, and to who, and make makes up male and female psychies (sorry, can't spell). Does a woman find a man attractive because she wants to mother him?! Urgh.

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pearl   
Yeah whatever. :rolleyes:

 

I was going to ignore this, just as I would if a stroppy teenager said it to me.

 

But you aren't a stroppy teenager Flo, you are a grown woman & a mod. I expect better.

 

I asked a genuine question, politely agreed to differ with you & received a sneering, two word dismissal and a roll of the eyes, when no response was even required.

 

Moderators set the whole tone of a forum. You can't just remove your mod hat when it suits you. And I think this kind of sneering put-down (not just from you, I hasten to add, & not just from mods) goes some way to explaining why the forum has been so quiet recently. People dont want to engage in genuine debate when you can almost guarantee you will be dismissed or insulted. I've heard that from several people, some of whom have either left or no longer bother to post.

 

But thats ok I guess - if they don't like it, they can go elsewhere, can't they? :(

 

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Flora   

I think Pearl, that it appears to me that you are looking for an argument.

 

In fact I think I'd go as far to say that yesterday you were almost baiting me, and today you definitely are.

 

I will not enter the debate, however I will discuss this with the admins as Kris very eloqently put several weeks ago 'hunting season on the mods is over'.

 

Flora

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bid   

I've just re-read yesterdays posts, and I honestly can't see that Pearl was baiting anyone or looking for an argument... :unsure:

 

Bid :(

Edited by bid

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Flora   
I've just re-read yesterdays posts, and I honestly can't see that Pearl was baiting anyone or looking for an argument... :unsure:

 

Bid :(

 

Neither do I... which is why I said 'almost baiting'. I'm not entering a big debate. However,it is a common theme, once again, that when someone takes exception to careless/casual phrases or use of emoticons... it gets totally blown out of proportion as it has in this instance with Pearl coming back today to take a pop at the mods ( namely me).

 

Flora

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pearl   

Thanks bid.

Just to clarify - I stand by what I say about mods setting the tone of a forum. With power comes responsibility. But I reiterate, I expect decent, polite behaviour from any member.

 

Apologies to the OP for this going off topic. I've said what I needed to & shan't go on.

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Flora   

mod's do not set the tone of the forum. The forum is the sum of what ALL it's members' make it.

 

Pearl. The forum has been quiet, and blissfully so. Quiet for lots of reasons. Many of the members are in the process of going through serious and genuine diffulties with LEA's and sorting out provision for their children. My only real input to this forum over the past few weeks has been supporting various members. I made a careless comment yesterday with absolutely no malice or sneering, but yes it was careless and you have decided to pick that ONE (from the many that are here and not made by me) and run with it.

 

However, I believe that in many respects I make a positive contribution as a member and a mod.

 

I think the publicity of this discussion needs to end here and if anybody has anything more to say on this subject to do it within the pm system, for common decency.

 

Flora

 

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I've just re-read yesterdays posts, and I honestly can't see that Pearl was baiting anyone or looking for an argument... :unsure:

 

Bid :(

 

What Bid said. From an outsiders point of view (and I don't post much anymore) I thought you were quite rude to be honest Flora.

 

Anyhoo, my son is also stunning :lol: and I also agree with Flora that baddad was being ironic.

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oxgirl   

Sorry, Flora, I think you were quite out of order with your 'yeah, whatever' comment. I was quite shocked when I saw it, I thought it was uncalled for and I can understand why Pearl is upset. She didn't comment on it straight away, but it obviously has been playing on her mind, enough so for her to want to come back and say how upset she was to see it. I do think you owe her an apology actually. :(

 

~ Mel ~

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Kris   

Just to clarify something,

 

The moderators are members and have a right to express their opinion providing they themselves stay within the rules. I believe the tone of the forum is set by the members posts. Moderators can take the moderating hat off whenever they like, however then they cannot (unless in extreme circumstances) moderate a thread that they have personally been involved in. Flora has chosen to express her opinion in this thread, now she wont be able to moderate the thread. Thats the price a moderator pays for 'taking the hat off' - I think thats fair.

 

If a moderator says something as an individual which you dont like then feel free to challenge them as an individual, not as a moderator.

 

Now, deep breaths all round and lets get back on topic please so that I dont have to close this.

 

Kris

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baddad   

Blimey - what's all this going on here then... looks like one of them there 'Fatwa's' to me! and there we was just got over all that Johnathon Ross/Russell Brand debacle - lawks a mercy missus, and where's me apple's and pears!

 

As this seems to have started from my post, I feel it's reasonable to offer some comment, and exert my new found freedom as a member rather than a mod (is it just juvenile old me or does anyone else find it difficult to type 'member' without giggling? Rhetorical question - no need to reply.)

Firstly, lets look at TN's post:

He responds to my post, but rather than quoting it as written he edits out the opening sentence of that paragraph which quite clearly states that these are not my views (The next thing being described... )and that i'm paraphrasing/responding to the comments made by Tony Attwood. After editing the post in that way he then goes on to say that he is offended by those comments... Is it just me, or does that seem to anyone else to be a bit manipulative, particularly given the history here?

Pearl, in her interpretation of events, seems also to have missed the fact that i was paraphrasing/responding to the comments made by Tony Attwood and also failed to spot the bracketed section which for most people indicated that i was joking (I think it's the emoticon that gives it away ( ( :o - Ladies I don't think that for a moment, BTW I'm just offering reasons why this might be the case) ), again, is it me or does this oversight seem a bit convenient to anyone else, particularly given the history?...

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying these misunderstandings were deliberate by either party. I'm just stating that, with the history and all, whether accidental or deliberate they were open to misinterpretation...

 

Now, moving on from that: was pearls posted response to Flora's provocative?.

 

Well unless he clarifies we'll have to agree to differ :)

 

Personally, I can see two reasons why that might be. Firstly, the inclusion of the smile emoticon (the only emoticon Pearl used in the exchange) seems dismissive; as though Flora's 'take' on the posts is irrelevent because I haven't made any comment, and secondly because it seems to be reiterating the original misinterpretation - i.e. she still doesn't see (despite having had the indicators pointed out to her by flora and others) that it's likely TN and herself have got the wrong end of the stick. And who's 'he' by the way? The cat's father?

Again, maybe it's just me that sees that and maybe it's that history again, but personally I think Flora's response of 'whatever' was ill-advised but also quite understandable.

 

The post this morning? Out and out 'baiting', IMO: an attack on Flora personally (the behaviour of a stroppy teenager?) and on the moderating team/way the forum is run generally.

 

I stepped down as moderator because I felt mods were being backed into corners with regard to effectively moderating the forum because a small group of members had taken it upon themselves to moderate unofficially. Events occuring after I stepped down showed that those suspicions were correct. That's exactly what I see here again today.

 

TN's post was NOT an accurate representation of what had been said, and that was challenged by flora quite reasonably and not as a mod but as a member. The subsequent exchange between two members has then been blown out of proportion to provide a 'victim' scenario which has then been used as an excuse to attack and undermine the forum moderating team and the tone of the forum as a whole. I feel certain that kind of sniping has far more to do with any dissent on the forum than any actual disagreements, because it is not what mods or members say that is causing the problems but the interpretation and 'spin' some members wish to apply to what they say. I do see agenda's to control the 'tone' of the forum going on, but they do not arise from the mods or the administrators (who have, by and large, maintained the forum in exactly the same way it's always been maintained) but by a small group of members who seem quite happy to see it undermined in pursuit of 'their way or no way'...

 

Now i'm sure those observations aren't going to sit well on some shoulders, and i'm sorry to make them after Kris has made a call to get 'back on track'. I hope people will appreciate that as my post seemed to be at the centre of this it was reasonable for me to openly reply. I would now ask anyone who is unhappy with what I've said to please direct their replies to me via the PM system and to let this thread get back on track. I would also ask everyone to accept and appreciate that this is not a 'mod' comment or in any way representative of the views of the moderating/admin team of the forum: I stepped down so i would have the same freedom of speech as other members without it impacting on anyone else. I'm now using that freedom. Personally, I believe the mods should be able to too - and without the need for preconditions to exist in the event that they do. it really does them a huge injustice.

 

:(

 

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bid   

We all sometimes say things that are 'ill-advised' like Flora's 'Yeah, whatever :rolleyes: '

 

I was rude in another thread the other day, so I apologised...simple as.

 

Bid :(

Edited by bid

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zaman   

I'd just like to point out that whatever the rights and wrongs of the discussion, I'm better looking than all of you.

 

You'll have to trust me on that.

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bid   
I'd just like to point out that whatever the rights and wrongs of the discussion, I'm better looking than all of you.

 

You'll have to trust me on that.

 

Ahhh, but are you 'clinically well-dressed', eh?! :P

 

Bid ;)

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Flora   
We all sometimes say things that are 'ill-advised' like Flora's 'Yeah, whatever :rolleyes: '

 

I was rude in another thread the other day, so I apologised...simple as.

 

Bid :(

 

And I'm sure you wear your halo with pride! :shame:

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Kris   

Doh!! So much for keeping on-topic then.

 

Topic closed and apologies to those of you denied the opportunity to reply because of this.

 

Kris

 

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