chris54 Report post Posted December 3, 2008 Its that time of year again, we do all the "traditional" things, spend more that you can afford on presents, eat to much, have a big argument with some one. Yep a nice traditional christmas. But. What about the real meaning of christmas. The celebration of the birth of Jesus, the son of god, Founder of the christian faith. I always feel very hypocritical as I am a non believer but go alone with it all for the sake of others. And tread a fine line with my son, I talk about Jesus and what he means to Christians and who he was. I chose my word very carefully and have never said what I believe , I use terms like:- Christians believe that--- I do nothing to undermine what he is told at school, its a CE School, about god and religion, and I will be going to the carol serves and things like that. But it all means nothing to me. If it were not for others I would not celebrate christmas at all. My wife on the other hand is a firm believer and goes to church most Sundays. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted December 3, 2008 I've no probs with peeps celebrating christmas whether believer or non believer, as it was a pagan festival long before christianity came along. Jury's out as far as I'm concerned, but I go along to the carol service in our lovely medieval church cos I love the atmosphere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted December 3, 2008 Christmas is not a real Christian celebration. It isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible and there is not a shred of evidence that Jesus said "celebrate my birthday". Christmas started out life as a European Pagan celebration and only entered western Christianity as a result of a compromise between Constantine and his people. Some traditional Christian sects from outside Europe that were untouched by the influence of Constantine do not recognise Christmas at all. There was a time during the 17th century in Britain when the Puritan movement banned the celebration of Christmas because they saw it as a decadent and gluttonous Popish activity. The quote that some Christians use of putting Christ back into Christmas really is a big oxymoron. Some critics even say that it is blasphemous for a Christian to associate Christmas with Christianity, and Christians should celebrate Christmas as a purely secular event. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheNeil Report post Posted December 3, 2008 I might be wrong on this one but I'm sure that I read somewhere that historians now believe that Christ's actual birthday was in early January - it was 'shifted' to December 25th to tie in with the Pagan festival (I seem to think that 'the Winter Festival' rings bells but can't be 100% sure on that one) that others have mentioned. As to myself, I'm an agnostic so the religious aspect of Christmas tends to have little or no impact on me. That's not to say that I don't know the biblical tales and/or respect Christianity, just that, to me, Christmas is more about having a break in the middle of winter as opposed to any religious celebration. Each to their own though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScienceGeek Report post Posted December 3, 2008 My wife isn't religious in any kind of way really but we do the secular stuff, mostly we see it as a chance to have a break and spend time with the family. It happens to be that Chanukah starts on the 22nd so I'll be lighting my candles on xmas day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris54 Report post Posted December 3, 2008 I know there are lots of people that try to justify celebrating Christmas by ignoring the reason for it by saying that it is a pagan festival. Christmas may have replaced a Pagan festival but how many people knowingly celebrate it as a pagan festivals in this country. I for one don't. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ, like it or not, why do you think it is called CHRISTmas. Jesus did not say celebrate my birthday, what he did do was speak out against the establishment. It was his followers at various times in history that have put together all that is now considers Christianity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted December 3, 2008 I thought publically celebrating christmas was banned in this country now due to the PC brigade??? "seasons greetings" and all that rubbish?? Are carol singers allowed???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathryn Report post Posted December 3, 2008 Some critics even say that it is blasphemous for a Christian to associate Christmas with Christianity, and Christians should celebrate Christmas as a purely secular event. Not come across this one myself, Canopus! Easter should really be the main celebration of the Christian calendar, but it has been eclipsed by Christmas in people's consciousness, probably because there are more retail possibilities in the latter - and Dickens has a lot to answer for! I grew up in a secular household, but I loved going to carol concerts and hearing the nativity story, they were as much a part of Christmas tradition as for me as Father Christmas, putting up stockings, decorating the tree and eating mincepies. Now I do celebrate it overtly as a Christian, not as much as I would like to because I still get caught up in the retail frenzy and the stress of preparing for it, and don't make the time to reflect on what it's about. We go to the crib service on Christmas Eve, which has a lovely atmosphere and it's a little oasis of calm in the middle of all the rush. I also like listening to the carol service from Kings. Christmas has become a time of stress and excess: as you said in your post Chris, eating too much, spending too much and arguing with people - the opposite of what it should be. Perhaps we need to give ourselves permission to relax and simplify the whole business. It's not right that people should end up deep in debt, or feeling depressed and anxious because of it. K x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NobbyNobbs Report post Posted December 4, 2008 i celebrate christmas and follow all parts of easter. i hate that people abuse christmas so much. i'm fine with people who aren't christians celebrating christmas however they please, thats their choice. what i hate is the 'its a commercial festival', 'celebrate it in january because its cheaper' and all the other nonsense that goes around as an excuse to dismiss its significance in the christian and british calendar (we are, after all still a christian nation) i give gifts as a symbol of the gifts given in the nativity, not because stores and brands tell me to. the amount i spend on those gifts varies year to year by how much money i have and what i feel is a nice gift for each person. its the act of giving that is important, not what you spend. for my church, christmas is very important. its the one time of year when people who do not usually attend show up and join in. i spent this morning setting up trees for our christmas tree festival, and have been planning the childrens nativity and crib service for weeks now. why make up excuses for why you shouldn't be celebrating christmas, just change the way you look at it! its about family, community and celebration, not how big a turkey you can fit in the oven and what gifts you can get Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted December 4, 2008 I do think commercialism has a lot to answer for. I dont think that the UK being a "christian" nation means much these days in our "multicultural" society. Well thats what the politicians and PC brigade will have you believe. I think this country needs to make a choice about christmas at a national level, either to celebrate it as a national festival or not give it such status. It just seems very confusing to me when on one side ALL government aganecies and councils now have to send "seasons greetings" cards instead of "christmas" cards to not offend other religions, yet on the other the sheer amount of retail mania and town christmas lights etc. bear in mind we are a majority christian nation (71%) with another 15% being of no religion and ONLY 6% being from religions that do NOT celebrate christmas. I find it confusing because everything vconflicts with each other so ive no idea how we are supposed to be celebrating christmas any more. Has the country moved on from "traditional" Christmas?? and we are just late catching on to it?? or is the government trying to push the people away from tradition for its own agenda and against the peoples will??? I find it all very confusing. Im used to a traditional style christmas in the forces and now im out have to make my own choices about how i celebrate it, yet whats presented to me as a society is all confused and messed up!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tally Report post Posted December 4, 2008 I think that people get too worried about offending people of other religions be mentioning the work "Christmas." I am not a Christian and I do not find the word "Christmas" offensive. In fact, I am offended that people think I would be. Around Diwali we have a special display if Indian foods at work with a "Happy Diwali" sign above it, and though I do not celebrate Diwali, I am not offended by the sign either. In the high street, we used to have some Christmas lights sponsored by local firms. The Indian restaurant sponsored some lights which were shaped like Hindu temples with "happy Christmas" written on them. They are Hindus who do not celebrate Christmas, yet they are clearly not offended by Christmas either. I hate the way Christmas has become commercialised. I work in a supermarket and have had two DAYS off for Christmas for the past seven years. (This day I am getting three!!!) Already our store is full to the rafters with tat. People go crazy at Christmas. I know that you would need extra food if you are having guests, but that should balance out as your guests buy less. But it is not so, people buy vast amounts of food. I can only assume that most of it ends up in the bin, because everyone is back a week later stocking up again for new year parties. I hate Christmas because all it means to me is six weeks of extra-hard work and stress. I like choosing gifts for people and thinking about what they would want. But now I am getting stressed because I have some gifts left to buy and I don't know what those people would want. I could just buy a box of biscuits or something, but it feels like a cop-out and I would prefer to get them something they would really enjoy rather than something I know they won't hate. Some people I know are spending hundreds of pounds on their child's Christmas present, and then they feel they have to spend hundreds on all their other children as well otherwise they will feel unloved. They will be in debt for months as a result. How does that affect the children? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ, like it or not, why do you think it is called CHRISTmas. If Constantine says so Jesus did not say celebrate my birthday, what he did do was speak out against the establishment. In that case Christmas should be redefined as a celebration for all people who had dared to speak out against the establishment and ended up persecuted as a result. It was his followers at various times in history that have put together all that is now considers Christianity. Authenticity is questionable. Modern western Christianity is a million miles away from the beliefs and practices of the original followers of Jesus. Not come across this one myself, Canopus! You learn something new every day. I dont think that the UK being a "christian" nation means much these days in our "multicultural" society. The fact is, the UK is legally and constitutionally a Christian nation. Not just Christian in general but having an official and established Protestant Church headed by the Queen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonj186 Report post Posted December 6, 2008 we celebrate christmas as a family day, cam goes to a church of england school so he learns the christian meaning there and we also try and answer any questions he asks us. sonj x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bikemad Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Our xmas is...odd...ds is deeply religious even tho me n dp are atheists so he gets up n goes to chapel for half hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then he comes home and opens his presents and lines them up the length of the room in order of preference for use or putting together( )...then bout half eleven we go down my other half's mums for xmas dinner n ds dont eat cos of the taste/texture etc etc except for a bowl of sprouts and Yorkshire puds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We leave there bout 7pm come home then work our way thru the presents that need making etc in order of ds's choice lol. This year tho this l need to be interspersed with walking the dog, we got a 7mth old pup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clare63 Report post Posted December 6, 2008 Can't we just cancel it Clare x x x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris54 Report post Posted December 6, 2008 In that case Christmas should be redefined as a celebration for all people who had dared to speak out against the establishment and ended up persecuted as a result. I think your getting a bit confused with Easter. But not a bad idea, not sure what establishment would say about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pookie170 Report post Posted December 7, 2008 I do celebrate the christian side of it, and encourage my sons to at least think about it at some point during the day too, but there's no way we'll attend mass in the morning as it so hugely busy and LOUD!!! Cal would freak, and what a fun Christmas that would be! I just bask in the warmth of my family,and enjoy all that the day has to offer us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billabong Report post Posted December 7, 2008 I'm still musing over the majority Christian nation (71%) which Warren quoted - I'm not doubting you, Warren, just the source and its interpretation of numbers. I wonder if that's the apathy vote? (I'm writing this from my Christian viewpoint!). Anyway, Christmas for me is midnight communion when all of the commercial trappings of Christmas seem to fall away. 25 December is something of an anti-climax after that, especially as we're miserable gits and don't get to see family until afterwards. Easter's the one that really makes me want to celebrate. Billabong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Ooh, I miss midnight mass. We always went when I was a child, you'd get all the cheerful happy drunks piling in at the back & a faint smell of booze over the incense. Then I was allowed to open one present when I got back. The best year was when I got my Koala Bear (1966 I think, that years must have toy, made from real Kangaroo fur, which horrifies me now!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted December 7, 2008 The fact is, the UK is legally and constitutionally a Christian nation. Not just Christian in general but having an official and established Protestant Church headed by the Queen. We all know that!! Its on every coin in the country, but its relevance in "modern" britain and modern christmas seems to have been lost. Maybe someone should remind the PC brigade of this!! Id much rather send Christmas cards than seasons greetings I'm still musing over the majority Christian nation (71%) which Warren quoted - I'm not doubting you, 2001 census, the one where idiots put themselves down as "jedi" for thier religion Obviously the census does not define those "practising" or regularly attending church from those who just associate with christianity by tradition or upbringing. I guess it depends if you consider it essential to attend church to be part of a religion. I wonder what the next census will say following the mass immigration of the last 7 years. I still havent worked out what im doing this christmas. Im not wasting money on decorations. I will have a christmas dinner but im not sure how you do turkey for one I do have christmas pudding but i need to put 5p's in it as thats what your supposed to do I think??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) You can get a lil turkey joint Warren & curry the leftovers. Just shove it in the oven long & slow Then ready made roasties from that Auntie we all know & love, packet of prepared veg, ready made fresh gravy, Bessie's your aunt Edited December 7, 2008 by pearl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted December 7, 2008 ooooohhhh yuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk not having any fake roast potatoes or fake yorkshire puddings :sick: :sick: I want real ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Who here watches the Queen's Speech? I remember the Annus Horribilis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caffeine Junkie Report post Posted December 7, 2008 I remember having to watch the queen's speech as a child. We split christmas over two days. The children get their Santa presents on Christmas day, then their presents from family and friends on Boxing day. This works well for us, as it reduces the stress for my son. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clare63 Report post Posted December 7, 2008 Who here watches the Queen's Speech? I remember the Annus Horribilis. I remember that too......Annus Horribilis. Always having our Grandparents over Christmas Day meant the Queen's Speech was a must and for me and my brother Christmas top of the Pops Clare x x x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted December 8, 2008 ooooohhhh yuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk not having any fake roast potatoes or fake yorkshire puddings :sick: :sick: I want real ones Now would I send you in the direction of rubbish food Warren, this Aunties roasties are as good as if not better than home made Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted December 9, 2008 pearl, my grandma taught me that home made food is always better than processed food She wouldnt be wrong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted December 9, 2008 Depends on who's cooking it, I'd say Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jo4themo Report post Posted December 9, 2008 We are like you Chris as we are not religious, but celebrate Christmas. My daughter (age 7) asked the other week why we celebrate Christmas in our house when daddy doesn't believe in God (good question - I am glad it was to my hubby not me LOL!). He explained that although we do not believe we still have tree, pressies etc co it is so commercialised now rather than it being just about Christianity. I alos explained to her that it is alos based on the old Pagan midwinter festival as well. Both my parents passed away a few years ago and my hubby's mum lives with her elderly dad in Cornwall so we take it in turns with a friend and her two girls - one year they come to ours for lunch and the afternoon, the next we go to theirs. This suits us both as we get the morning with just our own kiddies, then have a lovely meal together, then the kiddies get to open more pressies eg our three have theirs from Auntie J, and they play together/with new toys, or in Ns case read new books! Even though she is a friend, they might as well be family as we see more of them than our actual families! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted December 10, 2008 Depends on who's cooking it, I'd say erm Warren is cooking his own dinner!! Fire Brigade on standby!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billabong Report post Posted December 10, 2008 Like the toy! Is this on your Christmas wish list? Billabong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canopus Report post Posted December 13, 2008 This applies to people in England. Would you be upset if Christmas became an ordinary working day (like it is in Japan) and St. George's Day became a public holiday and national celebration? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted December 13, 2008 Blimey, yes. But I'd like St Georges Day as a holiday as well (any excuse for a day off work!) When we lived in Algeria, mr p was supposed to work over christmas. Perfectly understandable in a muslim country, but oooh it felt so sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris54 Report post Posted December 19, 2008 Who here watches the Queen's Speech? The queen wont get a word in edgeways, got mother in-law over on Christmas day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clare63 Report post Posted December 19, 2008 The queen wont get a word in edgeways, got mother in-law over on Christmas day. Brilliant.... Thank Chris, that really made me laugh, I needed that !!! Clare Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
