Had to send letter bout food...

[bikemad]

My lads school are an eco school n push for healthy everything...all well n good but my lad has severe sensory issues with food n wont touch most of the stuff they want him to eat...he even came home once ill cos he hadnt eaten at school cos he didnt like the food. Anyways sent this letter today.....

 

 

F.A.O. Mrs M(&%�"

 

C.C Mrs J(&^%$�.

 

Jordan has brought it to my attention that he has been told his healthy eating snacks he brings for snack are not suitable. As you are aware from his occupational therapy report he has problems with eating among other things and as I?ve mentioned recently to Mrs. M)&%*$ it has been getting worse as he has not been eating his packed lunch etc?.he has problems eating and has a VERY limited diet at the best of times and if you get him to try something he cant stomach the taste/texture etc of he will literally gag and throw it up?.if I were to stick to the strict healthy eating rules the school has he would barely eat at all and in fact the day he recently came home with stomach ache was due to the fact he had barely eaten that day as the food had made him feel sick?so as a result of this I give him food I know he will eat so as he has at least some food in him during school?the snacks are healthy snacks and the packed lunch is as healthy as I can get him to eat without him bringing it back up in the dinner hall. If there is a problem with this please let me know and I will come and collect Jordan from school and contact the local education authority and ask them the best way round it so as he is able to return to school and eat while there.

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

E*^$ R(&%�".

 

School rung me n said o will he eat fruit...nope...will he eat cereal bars...nope....will he eat a soft fruit bar like go ahead...nope...will he eat salad...nope you get the idea. She asked what he will eat n I said easy look in his lunchbox!!! I said im not being funny but dont you think ive tried everything possible in the 9 years ive been bringing him up.....and if you have a problem O/T have said they will ring you n put you straight on the matter.

 

Grgh!!!!!

 

Edited to remove a name.

Edited February 23, 2009 by bikemad

[Mad cat lady]

AArrggg!

 

I know exactly how you feel, been there!

 

Our school does a healthy eating week once a year (it is an ongoing thing but once a year they do a week specifically focused on health) and every year with a different teacher we have the exact same discussion.

 

It usually ends with me saying " and how does my sons' diet affect your ability to teach?".

 

My favourite saying at the school and one they don't usually have an answer for!

[lynne]

 

 

Some of those cereal bars are very unhealthy (you need to look at each indivually)

 

My son also has the same problems and at his school, school dinners are compulsary. Sometimes he comes home with a headache because he has had nothing to eat all day.

 

When my son was in junior school he use to take the rice crips in to eat. He would also take an apple if someone cut it up in school (but school do not like to cut the fruit)

 

It is very difficult for children with sensory difficulties. Sometimes they like something but they will not eat it due to the texture (small lumps etc)

[bikemad]

Grgh nearly lost it with the head just now on the phone. She agreed the baked crisp things were ok but another teacher told me son he could only have them today n had to bring something else tomorrow so rung her n said who in gods name is in charge n she said get this they would rather he brought a yogurt/cereal bar or fruit so that he isn't different cos otherwise kids l pick on him n then it is more work for them n time they have to spend sorting it.....thats their ###### job!!!!!!!! They told me to wake him earlier n give him the baked crisps for breakfast.....he wont eat breakfast!!!!! Going to get O/T to ring them tomorow cos they just wont listen to me. On the phone I said 'I dont care bout him fitting in with what you want im not making him ill just so he fits in'.

[mom]

Just wanted to say good on you... who do they think they are eating something to fit in... my son has the same problems only im lucky 3 children are picked each week to eat the same as him and sit with him ie not making him look different and he would be physically sick if offending foods were ate by someone sitting beside him... hard as it may be you're fight will be worth it in the end... keep up the good work

 

 

Love Sharon x

[call me jaded]

Shamefully, the culture of parents being at fault for the failures of their children is common in education. Saves having to deal with the possibility that the teaching methods or (heaven forbid) the teaching staff are deficient in any way.

 

The UK used to be a place that tolerated quirks.

 

Ultimately they are 'punishing' the child for the actions of the parent and that just isn't on in an educational setting. If you were to phrase a request to allow your child to eat whatever it is that you as a parent deem appropriate and not penalise him for your actions, that may work.

[Enid]

Sending you much support but you probably wont win this one!!!!! we have had a total ban on crisps/chocs etc for years now and it caused such a lot of rows and turmoil but it was a blanket ban as it is in most schools now. good luck!!! Enid

[chris54]

Sending you much support but you probably wont win this one!!!!! we have had a total ban on crisps/chocs etc for years now and it caused such a lot of rows and turmoil but it was a blanket ban as it is in most schools now. good luck!!! Enid

 

It has just occurred to my that maybe a provision could be made in any statement of SEN to cover this.

 

We are lucky in as much that my son will eat cheese sandwiches, well he eats cheese for most meals.

 

He has a 3 day residential trip in June and at first said he didn't want to go, it turned out that the thing that worried him was the food. Ive told him that we will tell the school what he likes and they will do it for him. Just got the job of telling the school this. Something to do with inclusion.

[Sooze2]

This makes me so mad!!! What is the deal with everyone having to be the same anyway! They'll end up banning sex in a minute and make perfect clones that are all the same in fit into little boxes silently conforming to whatever stupid rule the powers that be decide to make up each week!

 

GRRRRRRR.

 

<'>

[NickyB]

My DS will only have cheese sandwiches, crisps (always the same ones), cheese strings and a banana in his luchbox. I have tried and tried to introduce some variety but I feel it's better for him to eat something rather than nothing.

 

I feel very strongly that it's not up to the school to tell me what I MUST put in his lunchbox - by all means offer advice but it's not for them to tell me what I should feed my own child And I think that should apply to all children, not just those with special needs.

 

In fact, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that children struggle to concentrate in the afternoon if they're hungry, so perhaps that could be pointed out to the 'food police'

 

I could go on about the nanny state etc. etc. but it's not good for my blood pressure

 

Edited to say that our school is also an 'eco' school has a 'healthy schools' award, but they don't make hard and fast rules about lunchboxes - they just advise.

Edited February 24, 2009 by NickyB

[venus]

The school my son goes to has a ban on chocalate bars, they can have choc biscuits but not solid choc bars. I have a terrible time trying to put thinngs in my sons lunch box.Today it was 2 breakaway bars( 2 because they have now got a new wrapper and a different pattern on the actual choc bar so didn't know which he would eat), 4 custard creams(have to make sure no bits are missing and that the cream filling has not gone onto the outside of the biscuit) and a yogurt.He used to have a pkt of crisps but now refuses to eat them.He will not eat sandwiches or fruit, in fact the only other things he will eat are ready brek and his baby jars that i mix with mashed potato.

These schools should recognise that these kids are not just fussy but do have a geniune problem with food. If my son ate anything different or with lumps in it he would also gag and throw up.I would love him to eat healthier food at school but it just won't happen.

[westie]

I am dreading time when my youngest starts full time school and has meals there, as he is also really fussy about food - he will not eat bread at all. At the minute he has dry cereal, sliced ham and cheese biscuits or tinned spaghetti for lunch (v rarely he will have a sausage roll). If given a choice I think he would live on tinned spaghetti and custard creams (he also does not like it if bits have fell off!!!)

 

There are a few other things he will eat: yoghurt, nuggets, sometimes fish fingers, sometimes chips.

 

He will not eat bread in any form so sandwiches are not an option (it was doctor who suggested that we give him savoury biscuits with meat instead. - and the meat thing is funny. Boiled ham ok, slice of chicken breast not ok -unless I cook spaghetti in tomato sauce, and he will eat chicken that way (or of course it is in the form of a chicken nugget!)

 

 

The healthiest thing he will eat is spaghetti bolognese. If I make it myself I can sometimes sneak a bit of veg in there and he will eat it (he will not eat veg on its own or in any other dish). If I made it myself it would be mince beef, peppers, onions, mushrooms, sometimes courgette and sauce made from passata and herbs. I have to cover veg with meat/ pasta so he cant see it, therefore I have to chop it small. He will eat chilled/ frozen spaghetti bolognese, has to be long spaghetti he will not seem to eat the ones which have shaped pasta in them??!!

 

In terms of healthy lunchbox, yoghurt and fruit flakes/ school bars are about the healthiest thing I could get in there. He did eat raisins for a time but will no longer do so. Only way to get fruit in him is in a yoghurt or as apple juice/ orange juice. So I would put a carton of juice in there (of course then I have to worry about causing tooth decay because of acid in the juice! )

 

spilling food is a problem he freaks if it drops on his clothes or hands and strips off then, so he always wanted you to feed him. He has been a bit better lately and feeds himself in a morning (sometimes evenings when he is more distracted I feed him more as he would just leave it to play otherwise). I think this improvement is because he is more able to hold spoon steady (he has hypermobile joints/ low muscle tone so seems to find it difficult to hold things properly/ steadily)

 

 

 

 

 

[baddad]

Hi all -

 

Got to say i'm a little bit put out by the overall tone of this thread, because so far the whole thing reads as if it's somehow unreasonable or 'wrong' for schools to be trying to encourage healthy eating and to ask parents to support them in this. The simple facts are that the children of this generation are statistically far unhealthier than the children of the parents generation, despite wider choices and better health education to help them make informed choices. Additionally, eating disorders of all kinds (bulimia/anorexia/obesity/dismorphia/restrictive diet etc etc) are all on the increase - not only within the autistic population, but generally; so we need to stop making assumptions about why some autistic children present these patterns of behaviour that do not focus on them as part of the 'autistic' condition but part of a general condition that is increasingly observable among populations where food, both in terms of variety and choice, is over abundant.

 

Before going on, I'll just say that I'm not 'challenging' anyone posting in this thread and I'm not making assumptions about their children - I'm just stating the facts.

What I don't see in this thread is the notion of 'compromise' or the notion of joint effort or team work. There's just this, my son's/daughters lunchbox is his/her choice and if the school don't like it i'm gonna... Now I'm sure everyone would say 'but I don't let my child see/hear these discussions' but the simple fact is that's impossible. If the child comes home and says 'They told me I couldn't take a chocolate muffin in my packed lunch anymore' and then something happens between school and home that changes that and he/she is allowed to eat a chocolate muffin from then on without being challenged the child will know. TBH, I suspect that in many, many cases the parents of such children are quite open and vocal in how they engage on their children's 'rights' in these cases - That was certainly the case when Jamie Oliver's 'School Dinners' campaign was at it's height.

 

How do you explain, then, to 30 children in the same class that it is acceptable for Tommy and Jane to have chocolate muffins for lunch because their mum says it is all they can eat, but that they should eat fruit? And when those other thirty children lobby their mum's and dad for letters explaining that they are 'fruit and vegetable intolerant' or that they cannot eat certain textures (although in many of these cases the range of textures involved can be quite wide - and two items with the same texture (i.e. a potato crisp or a beetroot/parsnip crisp or maybe heinz baked beans and cross and blackwell baked beans) are then differentiated on 'taste'. That, of course, is 'hypersensitivity to flavours' and begs the question: How do you respond to that, by limiting flavours or challenging the hypersensitivity constructively?)?

 

Of course, some children are sick when they eat certain foods, but is that a physical reaction, a psychological one or something else? I'll put my hand up and say that I found my 'Sick Trigger' quite late - I was about eight or nine. I never used it to control my food choices, because TBH there weren't enough food choices for it to be worthwhile. If I didn't eat my meal there were no other options, apart from bread and pullet. If I really didn't like the dinner I'd opt for the bread and pullet, but certainly had the alternatives been bowls of sugary cereals, packets of crisps, biscuits, cheesy strings, yoghurts, petits filous i would have quite happily grazed on those all day every day.

 

Sorry - i digress: back to the 'sick trigger'. I discovered mine when i was about eight or nine. I used it to get off or sent home from school. Timed well, just after breakfast, it could look really impressive - a huge fountain of half digested tea and toast projected halfway across the kitchen. It was less impressive on an empty stomach, but still worked well enough, and liquids were always helpful. I can't do it as an adult (I think I read somewhere that this is something to do with puberty and thickening vocal chord - much more a 'male' thing, but that thickening does happen for women too), but the trick was basically to sort of half roll my tongue back and then tense the muscles in my chest. It was completely invisible to the onlooker, but I'd get hot sweats and everything Sometimes this wasn't a deliberate act; quite significantly, the 'sick trigger' thing of chest muscles/tongue roll was exactly the same thing I did unconsciously if I was genuinely feeling sick or if I tasted something I really didn't like. Of course, I'm not suggesting for a minute that any of the children mentioned in this thread are doing it deliberately, but it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand and even if that's 100% not the case there's still all of the unconscious/psychological stuff to consider...

 

Anyway, back to the school/home thing. Obviously compromises do need to be made to help the child who has the eating disorder, but there does also need to be an expectation placed on the child to help and to make some compromises too, and for parents to make compromises to support the school in the very necessary wider context of promoting health eating to the general school population. If your child will eat something that is halfway healthy (and 'healthy options' foods are not necessarily healthy - they can just be marginally less unhealthy than the regular version, or in the case of fat/sugar reduced foods they are often actually less healthy because they contain pretty evil additives (MSG/Aspartame etc) but can legitimately claim to have reduced levels of the stuff that people more often worry about), then put more of that in the lunchbox and take out the stuff that really shouldn't be there. Anyone feeling guilty about the 'lack of choice' just needs to consider that it is not them limiting the choices, it is the eating disorder - they are only trying to work within the limits imposed by the eating disorder in the healthiest way possible. Variety is not the spice of life to the child concerned, so the parent doesn't need to impose their desire for wider choice onto the child, just give then the best of what's available in the limited range they choose to eat.

 

Being hungry is not a problem for kids. Actually, many autistic adults regularly report that they 'forget' to eat regular meals. Think of something that really absorbs you (house decorating is something that has this effect for many, even if it's not something they enjoy) and chances are you would go from breakfast through to a late evening meal without even thinking about food. Again, thinking about my own childhood; in the summer holidays I'd disappear all day after a breakfast of tea and toast and only realise i was starving when it got to about six in the evening - Dinner time. If we were having loads of fun and i could convince my mum to let me I'd happily skip dinner for a chip butty and go back out with that in my hands so i wouldn't lose any play time.

 

Symptoms like headaches/stomach aches are not typical symptoms of hunger, but they are significant in thing like hyperglycemia and poor/restricted diet. Responding to those signals with the wrong foods may temporarily stem the feelings, but the long term effects are negative. By far the most significant symptom of true hunger is lethargy, because the body does not have the 'fuel' to maintain higher levels of activity. In general, autistic children - whether they have food issues or not - do not fall into the category of 'lethargic'. If your child doesn't eat anything for the six hours they're at school it's really not a biggy. Yes, their energy levels might drop off a bit in the afternoon, but maybe, given hyperactivity, that wouldn't be entirely a bad thing? It could be that they can't absorb as much when they are feeling hungry, but quite obviously they can't absorb very much either when they're on a sugar high (or any other sort of hyper) and galloping around the room or struggling with the impulse to do so. So fill their lunch boxes with healthy, school approved lunches, and if they bring them home - so what? You can give them a fresh, healthy lunch the next day and whatever they've brought home can be your nice, heathy supper Everyone's a winner! (school - 'cos they're ticking the healthy school dinners box, your child, because they are not being forced to eat food they consider unpallettable and you, 'cos you have a nice healthy supper to eat instead of a handful of biccies or whatever you habitually go for with your cocoa!)

 

Oh, another tip - whatever you put in your childs lunchbox put in ONE healthy option - fruit or whatever. Put a star chart up on the wall, think up a great reward, and with no other comment whatsoever just say something like 'You know, i'd be really proud of you if you ate your (whatever) today; as they set off for school. If they come home and they have - wayhay! bunting, flags, stars etc, but if they haven't just give them a hug and say 'no worries, thank you for trying, we'll give it another go tomorrow.' If you get to the point where they're eating the (whatever) every day, give them the big END OF TASK achievers reward, take the star chart down and store it in the 'achievers box' (or whatever) and wait about a month before developing the next star chart for the next target food. You could even give them two or three options and let them choose their own target.

 

As I said at the top - not a comment on any individual parent or child, so hopefully not interpretted as such.

 

Very very best to bikemad and all other parent's facing the uphill struggle, but please try to bear in mind that the school isn't the problem. They're just trying to deal with the food issues their end that you are facing at home, and they have got to consider doing that within the framework of a school servicing anywhere between 300 and 2000 pupils.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Oh PS: Ben has two friends we quite regularly invite for dinner. When they come, we find our own choices restricted because of all the things they won't eat (veg etc). Neither of them are on the spectrum. Now, i don't differentiate for them as much - I will choose a main item i know they like ('chicken-brick chicken' appeals to both of them, so that's easy) and then cook one or two veg i know they'll eat while Ben and i have three or four. They eat lots of the ones they 'like' and have the option of trying the ones they don't. Both have 'discovered' new things they like in our kitchen.

 

[lynne]

 

 

My 11 year old is such a fussy eater. He has only recently started to eat chips but prefers not to have them. He will not eat fresh tomatoes but will eat them in a sauce and loves tomato sause.

 

He will not eat cooked carrots but will eat a raw carrots.

 

 

He only drinks water but very occasionly he will try a drinking chocolate and diet coke.

 

He does not eat biscuits because of the texture.

 

He will only eat jam or yoghurts if there are no bits.

 

Yet he loves protein fish, meat, chicken

 

But we still try to maintain a healthy diet.

[chris54]

I would agree with the general thrust of baddad's post.

When I was a child you eat what you were given and that was that. My mums cooking, well even the dog turned his nose up at it sometimes. I was not that she could not cook but never had the time or money to do any better.

 

But there were some concessions I didn't like jam, to sweet, so I had that bitter type marmalade on my bread for tea.

And I was never made to eat cabbage. The few times I had school diners I thought they were wonderful. Except cheese pie.

But we usually went home for dinner even though it was over a mile walk as school dinner cost to much, 6d a day!

 

Fast forward to today.

 

My son right from a baby did not eat well. Would only eat very small amount and often nothing at all. He would often complain of tummy ache, when in fact what he was feeling was hunger. He still does that. I had to tell the school this as they were phoning us up to get him when what he needed was something to eat.

I will admit that this has led us to giving him things he "likes" in order to get him to eat anything at all.

We get by now days with a fairly balanced diet not necessarily meal combinations that you would recognise.

Last night for tea it was:- Rise, Cheese, Yorkshire puddings, Chicken nuggets(He like these at the moment). Follows by pancakes.

The day before it was:- Pasta(tricolore fusilli), Cheese, Brussel sprouts, Cauliflower, Yorkshire puddings, Chicken nuggets.

Never any gravy or sauce,s of any type and each thing has to be on the plate not touching anything else.

 

For school lunch it is always cheese sandwiches made with wholemeal bread. An apple is included but never eaten. And some time he asks for a bag of crisps to be included(These are tolerated as part of their lunch). He will some times eat apples etc at home.

 

If he flatly refuses to eat anything (things that we now he likes) then it is nothing until the next meal time. With the one exception that he will be offered some bread and butter before bed time as we knew better than for him to go to bed with an empty stomach, He gets ill which can last for 2 or 3 days.

 

At Granny's house "I thought he liked cauliflower"- yes but not with cheese on top-"But I thought he liked cheese" --yes but not on top of cauliflower. Get the picture.

[NobbyNobbs]

our AS 8 year olds packed lunch consisted of 2 quarters of sandwich (cheese or ham. no butter), a chocolate coated shortcake biscuit and a cheese portion or some form of yogurt, but none of the red flavours such as strawberry (she wouldn't eat anything red). once a week she had crisps instead of the biscuit. fruit was provided at school. she usually chose grapes or carrot sticks, but sometimes would refuse. if she refused the fruit a note was sent home (at our request) and she didn't get her 'i ate well' star on her chart

 

at home, when she first came to live with us she would eat sausages, chicken nuggets and chips. that was it. her siblings wouldn't say what food they liked because N was so dominant and went into rages if you gave her food she didn't like. a year and a half later she was eating a moderately wide range of foods. she would eat green beans cooked, but carrots only raw, she ate cucumber and would eat any kind of fruit, with the exception of red things.

 

what i find most concerning about the trend of 'well my child will only eat this, because they have an ASD' is that there is no pattern in flavour/texture/colour. the example that sticks in my head is that someone said their child ate custard cremes for lunch, then mashed potato for dinner, but would go nuts if there were lumps... well custard cremes are hard, dry, crunchy, lumpy, yellow and sweet. mashed potato is wet, smooth, soft, white/yellow and savoury... no linked themes, except colour, but in this case i believe it was said that baby jars were mixed in, which would result in a delighful orange/brown/green colour depending on the jars. This in my (admittedly limited) experience means its a control issue rather than a particular sensory problem with eating. if a child were to eat yogurt, custard, soup, gravy and milkshakes, then yeah, its obviously a sensory problem, but even within the smooth/runny parameter you can have a perfectly balanced diet.

 

the healthy foods only schools are trying to provide the children in their care with the best stab at life, healthy eating is part of that. and the culture of 'but my child has an excuse, so they aren't going to comply' sets a worrying precident for the future. what happens when they then don't want to do something in class, or dont want to follow a basic law like a speed limit?

 

[bikemad]

Well so far O/T have run n let rip at them for not taking into account ds's eating disorder and in fact told them their actions could make him worse....not that the school listened!!!!! The LEA now know and are looking into it and ive drafted a letter to my local mp, also spoken to another school nearby who have a child already with the same stuff as ds so ringing them again tomorow to make an appointment to see the school etc n also got the home ed part of the lea ringin me tomorow with info.

 

O get this...the school say theres no bullying but found ot today one of the 4 kids who have moved due to being bullied well her kid was bullied by the kid who picks on ds...one time the lad held the girl under a drain n soaked her n when the mam asked what was done to him the school said nothing n she asked why is he allowed to bully n the school said o thats not bullying!!!! Then another time said kid plus others were chasing the girls n pulling up their skirts n trying to touch the girls you know what n this girl turned round n punched one of them n she got punished!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!! The mam went mental n said what are you teaching them...its ok to be crude n touch privates but not to stick up for yourself....but this is the school who say theirs no bullying n that the lad involved is good as gold.

 

Once ive got ds sorted n moved etc im seriously thinking of going to the papers n outing the school for what they really are.

[chris54]

then mashed potato for dinner, but would go nuts if there were lumps...

 

Even to this day, if I find lumps in mashed potato it will put my right my meal. Just something about it.

[call me jaded]

It's fair enough for schools to promote healthy eating, but they do need to be aware of their own limitations and take advice from other professionals who are qualified to run a treatment programme for an eating disorder. In this particular case it does sound as if the school is doing more harm than good through their own lack of awareness.

 

 

[baddad]

It's fair enough for schools to promote healthy eating, but they do need to be aware of their own limitations and take advice from other professionals who are qualified to run a treatment programme for an eating disorder. In this particular case it does sound as if the school is doing more harm than good through their own lack of awareness.

 

 

Hi all/jaded -

 

Sorry, i must have missed something here(?) Who are the professionals qualified to to run a treatment programme for an eating disorder? If you're talking about the OT I'm a little confused, because i thought if anything the kind of advice she could offer would be to help overcome any physical impediment to eating. It may well be that 'chewing exercises' etc would help in this respect, but it has absolutely nothing to do with nutrition or food intolerence. Has the nutritionist asked the school to introduce a programme of therapy that hasn't been provided? If so it's perfectly valid for her to comment, but if she's 'let rip' at the school on the basis that she 'knows a bit about autism' and agrees with the parent it's completely unprofessional behaviour. Has the OT offered any practical help with the 'eating disorder' or has anyone qualified to do so offered any practical help with the eating disorder? What steps have they suggested to encourage/promote the child toward healthy eating, and what of these recommendations are included in the statement and what of these recommendations have the school not acted upon?

As I said in my original post, where's the compromise here? Where's the 'working together'? Where are the expectations on the child/parents/school and who's defined them? All i can see is a mum saying 'my son can eat what he wants because he's autistic and if the school don't like it they can lump it.' If i did miss anything, please forgive me, 'cos I'm all for reasonable adjustments and for strategies that are designed to help children overcome their difficulties. i just haven't seen those things in the posts so far.

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

I think the ban on chocolate/crisps/biscuits in packed lunches is perfectly reasonable. These are 'treat' items anyway, and there is plenty of time for children to have them at the weekend or during the holiday.

 

With regard to selective eaters...my littlest was like this as a little boy (in fact I can remember posting here in despair as all he wanted to eat was pasta, soya milk and bread). He has gradually grown to accept a pretty wide diet, partly through persistent low key but firm 'this is what there is to eat' (plus the rare 'dad putting his foot down/tough about the tears' episodes), partly through the odd occasion at a friend's house when we had breakthroughs with a couple of foods the little blighter had consistently refused to eat for years at home!

 

In retrospect one very interesting aspect of this was that once he had been given the 'all-clear' from the CDC clinic and we knew he wasn't autistic, I think we were a lot firmer with him.

 

One thing that worked in our favour with our selective eater was the fact that because he has severe multiple food allergies as well, there was never the option to give him anything unhealthy like chicken nuggets, etc. So although he had a restricted diet, what he ate was perfectly healthy.

 

I offer this thought extremely tentatively as I'm aware that this is an extremely emotive subject: children can only eat what their parents offer/give them. A restricted diet doesn't necessarily have to be an unhealthy diet if the food available within the home is healthy.

 

Bid

Edited February 25, 2009 by bid

[call me jaded]

Hi all/jaded -

 

Sorry, i must have missed something here(?) Who are the professionals qualified to to run a treatment programme for an eating disorder? If you're talking about the OT I'm a little confused, because i thought if anything the kind of advice she could offer would be to help overcome any physical impediment to eating. It may well be that 'chewing exercises' etc would help in this respect, but it has absolutely nothing to do with nutrition or food intolerence. Has the nutritionist asked the school to introduce a programme of therapy that hasn't been provided? If so it's perfectly valid for her to comment, but if she's 'let rip' at the school on the basis that she 'knows a bit about autism' and agrees with the parent it's completely unprofessional behaviour. Has the OT offered any practical help with the 'eating disorder' or has anyone qualified to do so offered any practical help with the eating disorder? What steps have they suggested to encourage/promote the child toward healthy eating, and what of these recommendations are included in the statement and what of these recommendations have the school not acted upon?

As I said in my original post, where's the compromise here? Where's the 'working together'? Where are the expectations on the child/parents/school and who's defined them? All i can see is a mum saying 'my son can eat what he wants because he's autistic and if the school don't like it they can lump it.' If i did miss anything, please forgive me, 'cos I'm all for reasonable adjustments and for strategies that are designed to help children overcome their difficulties. i just haven't seen those things in the posts so far.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Where I have assumed some sort of treatment programme, you have assumed none. We'll never agree on that basis. Actually I don't think it's fair to the OP to make her the subject of the discussion, so will stop. I just offered a strategy that could get the school to stop what they were doing as I thought that was what was being requested.

 

Hope that clarifies.

 

 

[westie]

Hi all -

 

Got to say i'm a little bit put out by the overall tone of this thread, because so far the whole thing reads as if it's somehow unreasonable or 'wrong' for schools to be trying to encourage healthy eating and to ask parents to support them in this.

 

 

the quote bit gone wrong, but anyway info is above!!!

 

Baddad, I know you said you were not singling out individuals, but I just wanted to say that in my post on this thread I did not say that I disagreed/ thought it was unreasonable or wrong that schools achools are trying to introduce healthy eating habits. I was saying I was worried about what I would do when my son starts as he so funny about what he will eat (school meals most likely to be left, will have to be inventive with packed lunch as he will not eat bread) and then I went on to describe the sorts of things he does eat.

 

I will make an effort to choose the healthiest things I know he will eat, and some of the posts on here have given me ideas of things to do/ try (like putting fruit in, even if its left - though I have done this with eldest and it drives me mad when he comes back with it still in there, and that it is inedible as its been thrown around so much while inside his lunchbox).

 

Food issues are something I want to work on, I am sure that certain things affect his behaviour for example so need to do a more detailed diary as to what he has eaten and how he has been.

 

I agree (and have heard it from other professionals) that many parents they see, like me, are worried about food issues with their ASD child but often their children are a healthy weight and are described as hyper/ full of energy...

Edited February 25, 2009 by westie

[something_different]

Schools can encourage healthy eating and that is a good thing. But I don't see a problem with having a small chocolate bar, a biscuit, or the occasional packet of crisps if thats what a parent wants to offer their child as part of his/her lunch.

 

Bikemad has stated that the lunch offered to her son is as healthy as possible.

 

I have always been a very selective eater, and as a child meals were offerd to me with no alternative, so i simply didn't eat. So i think it is a good thing to offer acceptable foods to a selective eater as it is better than having nothing.

 

i still often don't eat and i do get very lethargic and headachey when this happens. I know I have a poor diet but no one really understands what it is like to be so 'fussy' and often blame my parents which is wrong as they never 'gave in' with me. If i did not like my meal I went hungry. but still had to sit at the table as everyone else enjoyed their meal and pudding/biscuit whatever and i just did not eat. i could and still do survive long periods with out eating adequate amounts of food. (this could be a week with an occasional slice of bread and no i did not stuff myself with bread to avoid food, simply ate enough to 'keep me going' this could b one slice a day with no other food at all, not that i enjoy eating bread, its simply somethig i am able to eat, and if no bread is availabe I can last a few days on 'fresh air' ) so i see that as being as unhealthy as eating a small amount of an 'unhealthy food'.

 

Selective eaters will often not eat brakfast, and it is not coz they have not been expected to sit at the table, i was never allowed to watch tv or play in the am. i always sat at the table while everyone else ate, i just was not hungry in the am, so no breakfast and then having no lunch at shool and then only a small meal in the evening is not healthy. as they may not have a big apetite. Also when i dont eat at all during the day i am less likely to eat in the evening as i then have lost interest in food and often feel ill and tired anyway. I often have to force myself to eat.

 

 

sorry this has endedup longer than i panned, just saying how it is for a person who has an eating problem. and was edited to add a bit more

Edited February 25, 2009 by something_different

[bikemad]

Hi all/jaded -

 

Sorry, i must have missed something here(?) Who are the professionals qualified to to run a treatment programme for an eating disorder? If you're talking about the OT I'm a little confused, because i thought if anything the kind of advice she could offer would be to help overcome any physical impediment to eating. It may well be that 'chewing exercises' etc would help in this respect, but it has absolutely nothing to do with nutrition or food intolerence. Has the nutritionist asked the school to introduce a programme of therapy that hasn't been provided? YES they have!!!!! If so it's perfectly valid for her to comment, but if she's 'let rip' at the school on the basis that she 'knows a bit about autism' and agrees with the parent it's completely unprofessional behaviour. Has the OT offered any practical help with the 'eating disorder' or has anyone qualified to do so offered any practical help with the eating disorder? What steps have they suggested to encourage/promote the child toward healthy eating, and what of these recommendations are included in the statement and what of these recommendations have the school not acted upon? YES they have the school have not acted on any of it they said it is not suited to their school n takes to much time to implement. My son is on a sensory programme to help his eating disorder tho since school have been making a fuss over his food he has reverted to living on fresh air n wont eat!!!!!

As I said in my original post, where's the compromise here? Where's the 'working together'? Where are the expectations on the child/parents/school and who's defined them? All i can see is a mum saying 'my son can eat what he wants because he's autistic and if the school don't like it they can lump it.' If i did miss anything, please forgive me, 'cos I'm all for reasonable adjustments and for strategies that are designed to help children overcome their difficulties. i just haven't seen those things in the posts so far. Yes you missed plenty....I have explained all things he will eat without throwing up on their shoes but none of it is good enough as they insist it has to be an apple or banana or cerial bar with fruit in...tried all with my son n he threw up with everyone of them!!!! And ive checked the fat/sugar etc of the cereal bar compared to what I send him in with n what I send is healthier!!! Il compromise but will not make my son throw up n live on fresh air!!!!! Are you a healthy eating teacher by any chance!!!!!!!!!

L&P

 

BD

 

[bikemad]

The O/T and also the other school ive contacted and the lea person have all agreed the school are being far too pedantic and also have one rule for one n one rule for another as theres a lad with adhd who can eat what he wants when he wants has an hour for lunch not half hour n can eat it were he wants....all my lad needs is to not eat stuff that makes him throw up.

[baddad]

Where I have assumed some sort of treatment programme, you have assumed none. We'll never agree on that basis. Actually I don't think it's fair to the OP to make her the subject of the discussion, so will stop. I just offered a strategy that could get the school to stop what they were doing as I thought that was what was being requested.

 

Hope that clarifies.

 

 

Hi jaded Just thought i'd pick up on a couple of points for clarity. firstly, i didn't make any assumptions at all - i just took at face value the info provided in the posts, none of which indicated any sort of professional involvement outside of the OT. That said, quite happy if you feel we can't agree, but it's not because of assumptions I've made, and i wasn't necessarily seeking agreement.

I also felt it unfair to make the OP the subject of any general discussion, as I was very careful to point out in my original post. However, the second post was actually in response to your own post, and that did detail specifics to the OP's post. I think the points I made were certainly valid and 'fair' in that respect, and i do believe anyway that if something is posted for discussion on the forum then discussion offering alternative perspectives is entirely reasonable and to be expected, so long as forum rules/etiquette etc are not broken. A support forum isn't always about agreeing, and would be nothing but a 'pat on the back society' if it was run on that basis. I did offer what i hoped were very practical and reasonable suggestions about star charts/rewards schemes/expectations and so on too.

While I appreciate that you were offering a suggestion to get the school to 'stop', that carries an assumption that the school was doing something 'wrong' that needed to be stopped. I don't consider schools trying to promote healthy eating options among students as 'wrong', and I didn't see anything else in the posts to indicate that the school were doing anything 'wrong' (i.e. failing to meet defined needs laid down in statement or indicated as appropriate in medical evidence provided to them by trained professionals).

 

hope that clarifies things.

 

L&P

 

BD

[lbj]

I'd just like to say as a "fussy eater" and a formerly very fussy eater, that there is no point in trying to force anyone to eat something that they really don't want. All the foodstuffs involved in people ever trying to take a stand with me as a child are still firmly off the menu now while many others which I loathed then have been admitted. The OP's school sound totally obstructive and I personally would consider them out of order even if I didn't have professionals on my side whom they were ignoring. Luckily my son's school have a gentler healthy eating policy. The other day we were discussing how he wouldn't eat the fruit or drink the milk provided at snack time and how this made it extra hard to get him to sit with the others. The teacher suggested I could send him in with biscuits but I thought this might look bad to his peers when they only had manky fruit (yep, I'm not a great fruit lover myself) and so I'm now sending him in with healthier and less desirable dry cereal. I'm fortunate that this is acceptable to my son but thank goodness the school is prepared to show flexibility and respect for my son's needs.

 

janine

[JsMum]

 

 

We have come along way in the last few years around food and We had a sensory programme from a developmenal centre and regular weight and height from a dietition to help monitor him, as he was catagarised as anorexic as he was below the 10 percentile for his age and height, in weight, he was living on chocolate and cola, those days seem so far away now though, he gained weight, though still underweight, and though he is still very selective in what he eats, he is eating much more of a variety of food, he struggles at his residential school though as many of the Healthy eating meals are too sensory for him, he doesnt eat cheese at all, and there is a lot of cheese based menues, and so limits his choice, there has been battles and the dietition is involved in helping the school comprimise in what J can eat.

 

If J goes longer than three hours of not eating, he will go into hypoglicemia so keeping a constant blood sugar level is vital.

 

He still adores his chocolate but doesnt eat as much, and he doesnt drink cola drinks at all now, we cook from scratch, using individual ingrediants and he gets to help and participate from him selecting the fresh produce from the market to taking it home and chopping it up and cooking it, he adores salads and vegetables if they are not mixed up on his plate.

 

We have linked anxiety to a lot of the reasons J has difficulties with food, as when your anxious the first thing the body does is shut down the digestive system and so it can be very difficult to feel hungry enough if your anxious.

 

J couldnt eat in a large school dining hall due to the noise and crowds, he wouldnt use cutelry and constantly move around when eating what he did eat IF he was hungry enough to eat his meals.

 

I think if he has such difficulties then a referral to a dietition and a nutritionist may offer more ideas on how to help him.

 

what I did feel was really unfair one day though is a dinner lady took out a chocolate yogurt out of his lunch box once but then later she opened a boost bar and took into that for her dinner.

 

If the children cant have chocolate that should go for the teachers, dinner lady and school staff, so no tucking into your chocolate digestives and dunking them in your cuppa tea, at break times!

 

I think at the end of the day though it is ultamately up to parents what children have in their pack up, a bar of chocolate also costs less than an apple now, so we should lower the cost of fruit and veg, as its just soo expensive, we also eat organic veg and fruit and thats another 20percent increase in cost also.

 

what should be the message is that you can ultimately eat what you like as long as its in moderation, and you eat a variety of different foods.

 

JsMum

 

[baddad]

Hi bikemad - just seen your 'red' letter. Boy, i'm amazed the exclamation mark key on your keyboard still works! .

 

responding to the red bits:

 

YES they have!!!!!

 

Sorry, i genuinely missed this, and still can't find it in your other posts(?). I had no idea that a nutritionist was involved, that they had made a report and that that reports findings was included in your son's statement or IEP. If that is the case, then of course the school should be acting upon it. that's what statements are for. If the report is from your OT, is she qualified to give nutrition advice? I've met many OT's in my time, but when i wanted advice on my son's vomiting/constipation/food allergies i turned to specialists in those fields for input.

 

YES they have the school have not acted on any of it they said it is not suited to their school n takes to much time to implement. My son is on a sensory programme to help his eating disorder tho since school have been making a fuss over his food he has reverted to living on fresh air n wont eat!!!!!

 

Then what's the problem? If these things are written into the statement it's not a question of whether the school want to or not or whether they are 'suited' to them... I've got to say i've never heard of sensory programme from an OT that included dietary advice, but if that's what's written into the statement and the OT is qualified to make those recommendations there shouldn't be a problem.

 

Yes you missed plenty....I have explained all things he will eat without throwing up on their shoes but none of it is good enough as they insist it has to be an apple or banana or cerial bar with fruit in...tried all with my son n he threw up with everyone of them!!!! And ive checked the fat/sugar etc of the cereal bar compared to what I send him in with n what I send is healthier!!! Il compromise but will not make my son throw up n live on fresh air!!!!! Are you a healthy eating teacher by any chance!!!!!!!!!

 

Again. apologies, but i still cant see this information. The only reference I saw to what he will eat is 'look in his lunchbox!". I'm amazed that your son can eat one fruit bar but not the other, though, I would have thought that texture-wise there wouldn't have been much between them.

No, i'm not a healthy eating teacher. However, I do have lots of experience of dealing with vomiting/constipation and dietary issues, and behavioural issues. I've resolved most of them, so maybe my advice is vaild in some way? I also have friends who have children with severe eating disorders - one of them saw her (autistic) child in hospital three times being drip fed, and another, who's daughter was not autistic but had anorexia, watched her daughter die in hospital.

Some suggestions from experience:

You say your son suffers severe vomiting. Have you had full medical checks to ensure he has no major food allergies? Have you seen a specialist consultant to rule out any physical causes (my son had barium meals/xrays/endoscopy (indicating legions in the gut, and highlighting medical grounds as along with all of the other good reasons for following a gf/df diet)... still has six monthly blood tests...

You say your son won't eat breakfast (this seems a bit harsh, if i'm honest - you freely admit that he won't eat for you but then blame the school because he won't eat for them). i don't know what he does in the morning, but i guess like most kids it's telly/playstation or general play. Have you tried - regardless of whether he eats or not - having a rule that if no breakfast is eaten he doesn't have the other things? He just has to sit at the table for as long as is reasonable for him to have eaten a breakfast if he did eat one? If you could fill him up with something before he went to school your school problem would be solved. I'm not saying you should force him to eat breakfast, I'm just saying you should have a breakfast timetable that he is expected to adhere to. (same for dinner/lunch, too. No pressure, just an expectation that he sit down at a table for the duration of a meal.

The ever popular star chart/reward/sanction schemes. I did ask this, but it was overlooked in your reply - What expectations are placed on the child?

You have said you will not see your son starve or live on fresh air. Have you seen any indications that he is malnourished? Small or 'skinny' isn't the same thing - the signs of malnourishment are things like lethargy, as i've said. Is your son lethargic for much of the time? It may just be that your son is a small eater - some people are in the same way that others overeat. If that's the case, then he may well be getting all the food he feels he needs from the foods you do give him, which is totally going to eradicate any incentive to try new foods.

Does he ever say he's hungry? if so, give him healthy foods then. if he's sick, wait, and when he says he's hungry again give him another healthy food to try. if he's sick, wait, and when he says he's hungry again give him another healthy food to try... do this maybe three/four times (maybe more if the recoveries are instantaneous) and you'll soon find a number of healthy foods he can stomach. Don't 'predict' that he will stop eating completely - that kind of assumption will get you nowhere (and if he says he's going to that says an awful lot about what's going on in his head around food).

Is his problem texture or flavour? Identify which, and work on that.

Is he a meal eater or a 'grazer' - if a grazer, all the more reason for regular routines.

 

 

As a side issue, and (hopefully to lighten things up a little). when my son was at the height of his vomiting probblems we lived in a different town. Now f we visit that town he finds it highly amusing when i point out all the different cafes/places he was sick in

 

L&P

 

BD

[call me jaded]

Well BD I wasn't exactly seeking your agreement.

 

I have expressed an opinion that isn't the same as yours. Fair enough, I would have thought, but it seems I have to have evidence where, of course, you are just right.

 

FWIW I read somewhere (not on this thread) that the OP had a programme that was being ignored by the school. It may have just been a poor old OT, but I got the distinct impression that there was multi-disciplinary input. Besides, have you ever tried to see a dietician when the primary diagnosis is autism?

[call me jaded]

Sorry for mega-grumpiness. I'd forgotten what you were like

[baddad]

Hi Jaded -

Well BD I wasn't exactly seeking your agreement.

 

? If you read my post again, you'll see I said i was quite happy to agree to differ I just qualified your assertion that i'd made 'assumptions' by saying that I based my response on exactly what was posted, unlike your own. Again, for the sake of clarity:

 

firstly, i didn't make any assumptions at all - i just took at face value the info provided in the posts, none of which indicated any sort of professional involvement outside of the OT. That said, quite happy if you feel we can't agree, but it's not because of assumptions I've made, and i wasn't necessarily seeking agreement.

 

 

I have expressed an opinion that isn't the same as yours. Fair enough, I would have thought, but it seems I have to have evidence where, of course, you are just right.

 

I've not asked you for any 'evidence' whatsoever - and I haven't claimed I'm 'right' or that you are 'wrong'. i'd really appreciate it if you'd read what i write rather than what you think you see between the lines. again, for the sake of clarity here is my entire post so you can clearly see that no such assertions were made on my part without having to scroll back up the page:

 

Hi jaded Just thought i'd pick up on a couple of points for clarity. firstly, i didn't make any assumptions at all - i just took at face value the info provided in the posts, none of which indicated any sort of professional involvement outside of the OT. That said, quite happy if you feel we can't agree, but it's not because of assumptions I've made, and i wasn't necessarily seeking agreement.

I also felt it unfair to make the OP the subject of any general discussion, as I was very careful to point out in my original post. However, the second post was actually in response to your own post, and that did detail specifics to the OP's post. I think the points I made were certainly valid and 'fair' in that respect, and i do believe anyway that if something is posted for discussion on the forum then discussion offering alternative perspectives is entirely reasonable and to be expected, so long as forum rules/etiquette etc are not broken. A support forum isn't always about agreeing, and would be nothing but a 'pat on the back society' if it was run on that basis. I did offer what i hoped were very practical and reasonable suggestions about star charts/rewards schemes/expectations and so on too.

While I appreciate that you were offering a suggestion to get the school to 'stop', that carries an assumption that the school was doing something 'wrong' that needed to be stopped. I don't consider schools trying to promote healthy eating options among students as 'wrong', and I didn't see anything else in the posts to indicate that the school were doing anything 'wrong' (i.e. failing to meet defined needs laid down in statement or indicated as appropriate in medical evidence provided to them by trained professionals).

 

FWIW I read somewhere (not on this thread) that the OP had a programme that was being ignored by the school. It may have just been a poor old OT, but I got the distinct impression that there was multi-disciplinary input. Besides, have you ever tried to see a dietician when the primary diagnosis is autism?

 

FWIW - well i hadn't - as quite clearly stated here:

 

firstly, i didn't make any assumptions at all - i just took at face value the info provided in the posts, none of which indicated any sort of professional involvement outside of the OT

 

Besides - And yes i have tried to see a dietician when the primary diagnosis was autism and encountered no problems whatsoever. so not only did i try, i succeeded. I do appreciate that 'postcode lotteries' could make other peoples experiences different, but if that it the case in this case it hasn't been stated here, and i had no reason, on the basis of my own experiences or from the information in the thread, to assume that there was a problem like this. is there a problem in getting a referral to a dietician i don't know about? As far as the 'poor old OT' goes i have no idea why you've made her a victim? I haven't in anyway suggested that her experience/skills as an OT are in anyway questionable - i've just made the point that in my experience OT's aren't trained or qualified in nutrition and diet - which is what she appears to be commenting on.

 

Sorry for mega-grumpiness. I'd forgotten what you were like

 

Ermmmm.... right...

 

can you please explain to me what was wrong with the suggestions in my original post promoting team work, calm liason and dialogue, concrete expectations on behalf of all parties etc etc etc...

 

I'm really at a loss to see what is wrong with that? Certainly there's something - because whenever I mention those things - whether it be in relation to diet, behaviour, aggression, social interaction, whatever - it seems to rub people up the wrong way. I really, really don't understand it, and i really don't understand why aggression, threats, anger and an attitude of no-compromise (all of which are readily apparent in the opening post) are considered to be better alternatives?

 

No need to apologise for your mega-grumpiness - I'm very thick skinned You know better than many just how long i've been touting the same old 'be reasonable/try to see both sides' schtick!

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Oh Quick PS: Westie

 

Baddad, I know you said you were not singling out individuals, but I just wanted to say that in my post on this thread I did not say that I disagreed/ thought it was unreasonable or wrong that schools achools are trying to introduce healthy eating habits.

 

No, and i'm sorry if i gave the impression that I thought you had. I was just sort of commenting on the 'general tone' up to that point - so apologies to you (and anyone else who read it the same way) over that.

 

Edited February 26, 2009 by baddad

[Kathryn]

Reminder to all, mod hat on:

 

The topic of children and healthy eating at school always arouses strong feelings: it's a delicate subject. Can I remind everyone to keep the discussion polite, and to respect each others views and different ways of dealing with the food issue? Even if you disagree with an approach, please do so sensitively and supportively: - a negative comment can easily be taken as a criticism of parenting ability. Every parent here has their child's best interests at heart and many people obviously have struggled with this problem at some time or another (as I have). What works for one child may not necessarily work for another in exactly the same way.

 

Thank you

[call me jaded]

I haven't in anyway suggested that her experience/skills as an OT are in anyway questionable - i've just made the point that in my experience OT's aren't trained or qualified in nutrition and diet - which is what she appears to be commenting on.

 

Neither is the school.

There is a Eating Disorder specialism in OT.

 

Could I just say I didn't enter the thread to debate why I have given a particular piece of advice. Neither did I say there was anything 'wrong' with your suggestions or opinions.

 

As you well know neither of us have access to the full facts, so offering an opinion at all is a bit dodgy. I tried to limit my advice to the specifics of how to get the school to stop putting pressure on the child, whilst expressing an opinion that the school could be doing more harm than good in insisting on compliance whilst ignoring outside input.

 

That is all I want to say on this.

Edited February 26, 2009 by call me jaded

[baddad]

I tried to limit my advice to the specifics of how to get the school to stop putting pressure on the child

 

That may have been what you tried to do, but with the greatest respect, it isn't what you did:

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st&p=250206

 

That is all I want to say on this.

 

That's fine; but please, if you do respond again respond to what i've said, not what you've read between the lines, because people only tend to look at the last post and i really, really do not want people taking what I've said out of context.

 

Many thanks

 

BD

[call me jaded]

Yes, I did two things: I stated an opinion and then gave one piece of advice. Is that not allowed?

[baddad]

Yes, I did two things: I stated an opinion and then gave one piece of advice. Is that not allowed?

 

 

Of course. i was just responding to your post saying that you had limited your post to advice, when in fact you had quite clearly expressed the opinion that a child was being punished by the school for the actions of the parents, which i disagreed with. Turning your question on it's head, am i not allowed to express my opinions purely because they are less popular? And just so i know for future reference, please tell me what is wrong with my opinions, because i still don't see why reason and dialogue are the wrong ways to resolve a problem. What exactly are you objecting to - other than the fact that i don't agree with your assumptions? I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, even though I haven't made any assumptions and have just stuck to the info provided...

 

This is the first time I've ever said this on forum and I hate saying it, but feel it is reasonable to do so under the circumstances: If you disagree with something I've posted, please say what so i can respond reasonably to that. If you are purely annoyed in some way because i've disagreed with you, please leave me alone.

 

thanks

 

BD

[call me jaded]

Of course. i was just responding to your post saying that you had limited your post to advice, when in fact you had quite clearly expressed the opinion that a child was being punished by the school for the actions of the parents, which i disagreed with.

 

No, I didn't say I had only posted advice, I said the only advice I'd posted (not quite the same thing) was relating to how to get the school to stop.

 

Turning your question on it's head, am i not allowed to express my opinions purely because they are less popular? And just so i know for future reference, please tell me what is wrong with my opinions, because i still don't see why reason and dialogue are the wrong ways to resolve a problem. What exactly are you objecting to - other than the fact that i don't agree with your assumptions? I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, even though I haven't made any assumptions and have just stuck to the info provided...

I have not objected to your opinion at all, just expressed that my own is not the same and by saying I wasn't expecting us to agree I thought I was indicating that I was fine with that. I didn't think it was particularly helpful to the OP so declined to explore the reasons why I disagree or justify what I've said.

 

This is the first time I've ever said this on forum and I hate saying it, but feel it is reasonable to do so under the circumstances: If you disagree with something I've posted, please say what so i can respond reasonably to that. If you are purely annoyed in some way because i've disagreed with you, please leave me alone.

 

thanks

 

BD

 

I'm sorry I've driven you to feel this way. I just didn't post on this thread to debate my opinions. It's as simple as that. I'm absolutely OK with anyone posting an opinion that is not the same as mine and would engage in an exploration of why that might be at another time. On this particular ocassion I do not have the time to expand on why I hold the views I have or show my (exemplary, I assure you) healthy eating credentials. Maybe another time.

 

 

ETA: Apologies to bikemad for completely hijacking the thread.

Edited February 26, 2009 by call me jaded

[Kathryn]

As this thread has gone way off the original topic and run its course, I'm closing it now.

 

Kathryn