School causes more stress than any part of this!

[tired and fed up]

Hello everyone Im new bare with me

 

Right I have a question, Im not sure how much detail you need so please feel free to ask me anything (if it helps Im not fussed).

 

My daughter is in a Catholic school (not sure that this makes a difference but some people seem to think it does), approx 18months ago she had a temporary school teacher in all of year one.

The teacher at the time called me in to ask me about my daughter as she felt that something seemed a little unusual about her..... On a lenghty discussion with her I talked about how eden had always been extremly sensitive to situations and that she could behave different almost "quirky" she asked me if I had ever considered her behaviour as being more than "odd" compared to other kids. I told her I had had a tough time with her but that I'd learnt to adapt to her behaviours.

This teacher then asked me if I minded her getting the school nurse to have a look at her just to rule out any sight,hearing difficulties etc... no not at all I said.

 

The school nurse then rang me at home and told me physically there was nothing amiss with Eden but that she thought there might be something a little more going on we talked through her behaviour at home and she told me she would refer Eden to the local peditrition (spell check)...

 

Ok so the peditrition looked at her, I was expecting her to discharge her from services on first look....nope she said she had the mental age of a 3year old and that she seemed to be displaying some unusual behaviours (we where only there an hour).

SO I asked the big question which I guess I had suspected for some time....could she prehaps have a little autism in her jeans as her brother who was biologically her fathers son was......yes quite possibly.

 

First meeting with the senco of the school told me that all this was unessacery and we "can all be a little autistic" and that she felt that eden would grow out of all this.

 

So anyway back to the matter at hand....(bear in mind months has past through these various visits)

 

The educational psychologist came this week to see eden I was informed to attend school for 3.15 which I was expecting to meet the ed psy, I got called into the room one side of me was the ed psy the other side the senco and in front of me the class teacher.

The ed psy asked me what I ultimatly wanted for me and Eden and I told her for eden to get on better at school and for us to bond better.

Must have been a red flag.... I was asked what eden's birth was like I explained that it was an eventful birth involving a short stay in the recovery wing of the hospital due to blood loss, then I was asked if I had breast fed...nops I couldn't as I couldn't move after having her...... did I want to, well yes but I couldn't.

 

So then the biggy from this was that it must have been awfully traumatic for me (well yes but I didnt really know what to expect as it was my first child and didnt really have time to think of it).....then she went on for the next 20minutes telling me that eden's "odd" behaviours especially the lack of physical contact was down to me not bonding with her at the start of her life.

Then I asked her to explain why then that she wouldn't have "physical" contact with anyone which she replied that she had seen evidence of her having this contact with another child in the class. She told me that eden allowed another child to put her arm around her (to which I was even shocked and questioned myself).

This woman also told me that I couldn't possibly be talking to the peditrition on the phone at home as they don't do that (they do) then I was asked where the idea of the autism came from I told her it had been said initially by me but professionals have also put it down on paper (which she told me they can't have done as she's not diagnosed), which I explained they had but it wasn't an official label it was "suspected".

This ed psy told me to go home spend time with my daughter forget about autism stop attending the local support group and to scrap all eden's charts (she likes to know whats going on when/reward charts etc).

 

My question:

Has anyone come across this kind of behaviour themselves?

Are Catholic schools know for there closed behaviour?

This school has a bad history for keeping the doors closed to professionals and eden now has a new teacher who has been there years, could they be trying to shut this down as a problem (bearing it in mind a temp teacher reported it to start with) this has been sugested to me.

Would you complain about the attitude of the ed psy?

How much weight does the ed phy have in eden's future care?

 

SORRY VERY LONG WINDED PROMISE MY FUTURE POSTS WILL BE SMALLER

[Kathryn]

I don't think one can generalise about Catholic schools: I'm sure they vary according to the attitude of the head and staff, the catchment area and their pupil intake, and unfortunately there are plenty of non Catholic schools where this attitude prevails as well.

 

Poor you - it sounds as though you had a rough experience and it's sad to think that the idea of the refrigerator parent is still going strong. The EP was going beyond the area of her professional expertise in asking you all those questions about the medical circumstances of your daughter's birth and presumably trying to make a diagnosis of some kind of attachment disorder. I think you do have grounds for a complaint, but you may prefer to focus your energies in getting definite answers about your daughter from those who are qualified to diagnose ASD.

 

In answer to your further question, an EP assessment will be important in determining any future support she needs at school, especially if a statement is necessary to provide this. The EP is not qualified to diagnose autism though.

 

K x

 

 

[Kazzen161]

If you have a good relationship with the paediatrician, I would tell him what the EP said, and ask for his advice. If he tells the EP she is talking rubbish, it will have greater impact.

 

 

[Tally]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

 

Sounds like they are frightened they might have to offer your daughter support if it turns out she is autistic. Much easier for the school if they can get you to blame yourself and stop pursuing a diagnosis.

 

Attachment disorder can look a lot like autism, but it is quite rare and is not caused by what you've described, and an Ed Psych is not actually qualified to make this kind of diagnosis anyway.

 

Given the paediatrician is supportive and seems keen to get to the bottom of things, she might be a good person to talk to about this.

[Sally44]

Regarding schools, my son went to a Church of England school. I found it to be very set in its ways regarding how they did things. They were very rigid in how things had to be done and children had to do it that way. Even when professionals advised that they should make adjustments they did not do that. Professionals told me that their approach was very old fashioned and out dated and that they have very little experience of special educational needs. That is a generalisation. But was true in my case. With time you will have to decide if this school is supportive or not.

I agree with the advice in the other posts. So I would go back to the paediatrician and ask for assessments for a definately diagnosis. If you have further problems there are advice lines via the National Autistic Society and IPSEA. You can find their details on their websites ie. www.nas.org.uk and www.ipsea.org.uk.

My understanding of attachment disorder (which doesn't amount to much!) is that it is a diagnosis that a child might get if they have been neglected or abused. It is not something that would happen just because you were a first time mother and were inexperienced, otherwise all our children would have that diagnosis.

All autistic children have difficulties with emotions, social interaction, communication etc and that is to varying degrees. So some parents may feel like there is not a 'bond' between their child and them because they don't get the typical interaction you get from an NT child. But i'm sure many on this forum would say that just because a child cannot 'show' their emotions in a way that we recognise does not mean they are not there.

If your daughter is avoiding hugging, then she may have some sensory issues. If that is so, then it is worth knowing that sensory processing fluctuates throughout the day. So she maybe tactile defensive at some times and be able to tolerate a hug at other times. Does she have problems with feeling comfortable in clothes, or problems with socks, combing/washing hair or brushing teeth etc?

[chris54]

Regarding schools, my son went to a Church of England school. I found it to be very set in its ways regarding how they did things. They were very rigid in how things had to be done and children had to do it that way.

I just wanted to add that my son also goes to a Church of England school and they couldn't be more different. They are always open to new ways of doing things and are happy to adapt to suit the individual needs of each child.

I think it is very much down to the head, staff and of course the board of governors, how a school is run.

 

My son avoids hugging, this is due to an over sensitivity to touch, I am the same and I suppose I have learnt to put up with the discomfort it gives me as I know it upsets other if you reject their "Hugs".

 

I must say that until I understood about ASD, when my son was diagnosed at the age of 7, I did really think he was like he was becomes of the way we are and that some how we were letting him down.

Having a diagnosis for him helps in as much as we can stop looking for reasons and start getting on with dealing with the consequences

Edited November 23, 2009 by chris54

[justine1]

I had same problem at catholic school.My eldest son(NT) had been bullied on and off for two years because it was a girl who was harming him I was not taken seriously,then in yr2 there was a mother who was very jealous of my son her son and mine were both top of the class so she didnt like that,she made many false accusations against my son,then one day my son had enough and punched another boy in the mouth (I knew this was wrong and was very dissapointed in him)immediatley they said they want to expel him,I said while I am not excusing his behaviour I have told the school so many times he is being bullied she claimed she knew nothing about it.Around the same time my AS son Sam had been in reception for 6 months again they never mentioned anything odd about him I think they just thought he was taking long to settle into school.I changed their school and after two months they mention there is a problem but they never made any referral that was left to me and I did this through the GP.Anyway I do think you need to go back to the paed who saw your child and explain the situation if this is not possible your GP will have all the info from the paed anyway.Is she going for furthur assesment to get a diagnosis?You dont need the school on your side to continue with that,maybe their attitude will change when they see it in black and white.Let me tell you,it is a battle with paed,ed phs,teachers headteachers,senco,its a wonder how we find time for the kids we are fighting to help

[tired and fed up]

Thankyou everyone for your replies

I have spoken to my pediatrition about the interview and she said she was concerned about the way that it has been carried out and that she was also appauled that she could make such a snap decision about eden when she had only spend two hours with her and less than an hour with me!

She encouraged me to continue with the various appointments for eden we are currently awaiting an appointment for the clinical psychology and have three other speech therapy appointments to attend as she told me she is putting her part of the report together for the peditrition.

 

Sorry to generalise about religious schools but I have spoke to the school nurse who states there have been quite a few problems with this school not engaging, the peditrition however has told me to keep her there for now untill a place at another local school becomes avalible.

Eden has also decided that she's not religious as she doesn't understand how god could have possibly made so many things in such a short amount of time (I dont think this has gone down too well!) but she does believe in santa- of course he can make all the toys in the world he has helpers

 

As for the sensory needs, these are the greatest problems that we have with her, she will wear the same cardigan for school for months then all of a sudden it's scratchy.

She's very sensitive to noise although will happily watch the tv with it on full blast as she tells me she can't hear it

She has a phobia of hand dryers and flushing the toilet, she hates baths and doesn't seem to understand the importance of having her hair/teeth brushed.

When you do wash her or whatever she grits her teeth as though you are really hurting her

[Sally44]

Thankyou everyone for your replies

I have spoken to my pediatrition about the interview and she said she was concerned about the way that it has been carried out and that she was also appauled that she could make such a snap decision about eden when she had only spend two hours with her and less than an hour with me!

She encouraged me to continue with the various appointments for eden we are currently awaiting an appointment for the clinical psychology and have three other speech therapy appointments to attend as she told me she is putting her part of the report together for the peditrition.

 

Sorry to generalise about religious schools but I have spoke to the school nurse who states there have been quite a few problems with this school not engaging, the peditrition however has told me to keep her there for now untill a place at another local school becomes avalible.

Eden has also decided that she's not religious as she doesn't understand how god could have possibly made so many things in such a short amount of time (I dont think this has gone down too well!) but she does believe in santa- of course he can make all the toys in the world he has helpers

 

As for the sensory needs, these are the greatest problems that we have with her, she will wear the same cardigan for school for months then all of a sudden it's scratchy.

She's very sensitive to noise although will happily watch the tv with it on full blast as she tells me she can't hear it

She has a phobia of hand dryers and flushing the toilet, she hates baths and doesn't seem to understand the importance of having her hair/teeth brushed.

When you do wash her or whatever she grits her teeth as though you are really hurting her

 

Have you told the paediatrician all the above sensory issues she has? Have they referred you to an Occupational Therapist for them to assess her and give advice on a sensory diet.

Many children on the spectrum have sensory differences. It can affect any or all of the senses eg. vision, hearing, touch, smell, taste, balance and co-ordination. And the important thing to remember is it FLUCTUATES, so it varies throughout the day and day to day. So my son might cover his ears if I put the vaccum cleaner on, or he might enjoy popping balloons or going to drum club. It is the same with every sense, so one day his socks or clothes are okay. On another day he has to wear long underpants because the seams on his trousers are hurting him.

So try to think it is not that she doesn't understand the importance of of washing, brushing etc. It does feel uncomfortable or even painful to her. So when you see her gritting her teeth, ask her 'is this bothering you' or 'does brushing your teeth hurt'. She may say 'no it is the taste of the toothpaste', but you may get some answers and insight.

Can she tolerate deep hugs ie. wrap your arms around her and give her a long firm squeeze? Sometimes children can tolerate that better than a soft touch or stroking.

 

Another thing to consider is that she may not be able to engage two or more senses at a time. Ie. if she is watching TV she is using her vision and may not be able to use her hearing at the same time. So she may be right in saying she cannot 'hear' it and tries to compensate by turning up the volume. For example my son cannot look me in the eyes whilst he is trying to talk to me because it distracts him from what he wants to say. If I am talking to him and he makes eye contact then he cannot remember what I have said to him. Other ways it can affect them is that if they are doing something they may lose body sensation. So they may hurt themselves and not feel pain, or not recognise if they are too cold or too hot.

If you contact the National Autistic Society, they do hold day seminars about a whole range of issues including newly diagnosed children - information for parents (Help programmes), they also have seminars about the special educational needs process in education and seminars about sensory issues. It would useful to get your name down for those seminars as they come up.

[Sally44]

My son also hates hand dryers. They make alot of noise, and it is sudden and usually turned on by movement, which can be just walking past it. Sends my son mad.

Something to remember for the future is Auditory integration therapy. Again an OT can give you the CDs for your child to listen to. We have had a programme for my son and he has made alot of progress since then. Not sure if it was all, partly or totally unrelated to the AIT, but many children have improvements with all aspects of sensory perception which in turn helps them function better on all kinds of levels.

[got the tshirt]

I would just like to say, whatever has been said to you , you must go with your insticts. I found this out the hard way. Please, please don't be scared to keep fighting your daughters corner, she needs you to be her voice. I gave up fighting for my eldest and have regretted it ever since.

A big hug <'> and take care of yourself.

[tired and fed up]

Hello sally44,

The peditrition knows all about her sensory needs (she made me laugh when we went to the first appointment as I hadn't noticed but she had half a toilet roll wrapped around her leg under her knee socks, which fell out when the ped asked her to take her socks off), she's not mentioned anything about an OT assessment of her.

Im glad that you mentioned about the variation with the sensory needs, It's exactl;y like that in our house she might go nuts at the dishwasher because the cycle starts as she's walking past it but will happily bounce on balloons/ jump and fight with her dad but go nuts if anyone even touches her. These are the kind of things that kept making me question the whole thing! So very contridictory!

 

"got the tshirt" I can understand why you gave up, it's a really difficult process to go through! Im trying my best to hold down a four day a week job, look after two children, a husband and a house....Im not sure where all this time for fighting against polotics is suppose to come in!

 

I've had a few people say to me that the process will probably be more tricky as she is displaying high functioning and she's well.....a she

 

The next major appointment that I have coming up is with a clinical psychologist (let's hope they don't think Im ###### lol).

 

I spoke to eden's speech therapist last night at her appointment about the reception that I got and she advised me to complain, which I am definatly going to do...just hope it doesn't cause more hassle!

[got the tshirt]

I have hardly told anyone that we are having Dd3 assessed because of the experiences I had with Dd1. Even my mother didn't see all Dd1s' issues until she left home. It becomes difficult to expect specialists to believe you when your own familly don't.

When my mother said " I think you might be right about Dd1". I said " Hang out the ....... flags I have only been telling you for 15 years" !!!!

It is hard to keep on top of everything, don't try to be superwoman. take some time out. The jobs will still be there when you get back.

[tired and fed up]

I have hardly told anyone that we are having Dd3 assessed because of the experiences I had with Dd1. Even my mother didn't see all Dd1s' issues until she left home. It becomes difficult to expect specialists to believe you when your own familly don't.

When my mother said " I think you might be right about Dd1". I said " Hang out the ....... flags I have only been telling you for 15 years" !!!!

It is hard to keep on top of everything, don't try to be superwoman. take some time out. The jobs will still be there when you get back.

 

 

Thankyou I shall try It's hard to not try to do everything especially when some idiot comes and tells you how ###### you are....and all you want to do is the best lol

It's really annoyed me what the ed pshy said to me! I see these parents who live around me, kids filty shouting and carrying on at them for nothing, smacking them so they fall on there backsides...and I think Have I missed something here?

[cardiff_mum]

you can apply for eden to be assessed for a ststement of educational needs yourself, without the school or doctors backup. my suggestion would be to get CAMHS involved, either by a referal from a doc or school as they r the only ppl who can give diagnosis. do not listen to the ed psych, my sons ed psych didnt pick up his aspergers after seeing him for over a yr!!!

if you think there is a prob, shout, scream, do wot eva it takes to b heard. i dont know if its a catholic school thing, i believe its jus a ignorance thing. im v lucky, my sons head teacher used to work with kids with behavoural probs so he picked up on Js behaviour quite quickly and got us the referal to CAMHS. i dont know what part of the counrty u r, in cardiff there is a group called SNAP who give you all the information u need, look for your local group, contact your LEA and above all, reemebr, u know yur child better than any1 else.

oh, and autism traits arent brought on by 'not bonding at birth ' and to even suggest such a thing must have been devastating, there is research that suggests a lot of children with asd's had traumatic births, my son was 1 of them, 6 weeks early, 4 days in labour, lots of drugs to try and help him like steroids for his lungs, he was born at 7pm and me n dad werent allowed to see him in the special care unit until nearly 3am. i know of parents who have sufered post natal depression, and there children dont display signs of a asd, so do not take notice of the stupid ed psych.

good luck xxx

[tired and fed up]

you can apply for eden to be assessed for a ststement of educational needs yourself, without the school or doctors backup. my suggestion would be to get CAMHS involved, either by a referal from a doc or school as they r the only ppl who can give diagnosis. do not listen to the ed psych, my sons ed psych didnt pick up his aspergers after seeing him for over a yr!!!

if you think there is a prob, shout, scream, do wot eva it takes to b heard. i dont know if its a catholic school thing, i believe its jus a ignorance thing. im v lucky, my sons head teacher used to work with kids with behavoural probs so he picked up on Js behaviour quite quickly and got us the referal to CAMHS. i dont know what part of the counrty u r, in cardiff there is a group called SNAP who give you all the information u need, look for your local group, contact your LEA and above all, reemebr, u know yur child better than any1 else.

oh, and autism traits arent brought on by 'not bonding at birth ' and to even suggest such a thing must have been devastating, there is research that suggests a lot of children with asd's had traumatic births, my son was 1 of them, 6 weeks early, 4 days in labour, lots of drugs to try and help him like steroids for his lungs, he was born at 7pm and me n dad werent allowed to see him in the special care unit until nearly 3am. i know of parents who have sufered post natal depression, and there children dont display signs of a asd, so do not take notice of the stupid ed psych.

good luck xxx

 

 

Hello Cardiff Mum

Thanks ever so much for your words of encouragement, I was thinking of writing a letter of complaint but not sure if it's worth the energy, think I might just start to take all this with a pinch of salt, after all I've coped this long without any help what difference will it really make?

[cardiff_mum]

i always get told to keep the school on side, as they can make things v difficult, but that doesnt mean u cant voice yur concerns. another thing that you might find useful is a diary, most of us keep them about our childs behaviour, but its worth having 1 about the school and their actions 2.

i hope that the school start listenoing to you and taking your concerns on board. the most important thing to remember is that although the statement/diagnosis process is hard, the sooner its sorted the better for putting steps in place that will benefit u and your child in the end.

gd luck xxx

[trekster]

Thankyou everyone for your replies

I have spoken to my paediatrician about the interview and she said she was concerned about the way that it has been carried out and that she was also appalled that she could make such a snap decision about eden when she had only spend two hours with her and less than an hour with me!

She encouraged me to continue with the various appointments for eden we are currently awaiting an appointment for the clinical psychology and have three other speech therapy appointments to attend as she told me she is putting her part of the report together for the paediatrician.

 

Sorry to generalise about religious schools but I have spoke to the school nurse who states there have been quite a few problems with this school not engaging, the paediatrician however has told me to keep her there for now until a place at another local school becomes available.

Eden has also decided that she's not religious as she doesn't understand how god could have possibly made so many things in such a short amount of time (I dont think this has gone down too well!) but she does believe in santa- of course he can make all the toys in the world he has helpers

 

As for the sensory needs, these are the greatest problems that we have with her, she will wear the same cardigan for school for months then all of a sudden it's scratchy.

She's very sensitive to noise although will happily watch the tv with it on full blast as she tells me she can't hear it

She has a phobia of hand dryers and flushing the toilet, she hates baths and doesn't seem to understand the importance of having her hair/teeth brushed.

When you do wash her or whatever she grits her teeth as though you are really hurting her

 

Dry brushing helps me with my water sensitivity problem. Sounds like she could at least benefit from OT.

[trekster]

Hello sally44,

The peditrition knows all about her sensory needs (she made me laugh when we went to the first appointment as I hadn't noticed but she had half a toilet roll wrapped around her leg under her knee socks, which fell out when the ped asked her to take her socks off), she's not mentioned anything about an OT assessment of her.

Im glad that you mentioned about the variation with the sensory needs, It's exactly like that in our house she might go nuts at the dishwasher because the cycle starts as she's walking past it but will happily bounce on balloons/ jump and fight with her dad but go nuts if anyone even touches her. These are the kind of things that kept making me question the whole thing! So very contradictory!

 

"got the tshirt" I can understand why you gave up, it's a really difficult process to go through! Im trying my best to hold down a four day a week job, look after two children, a husband and a house....Im not sure where all this time for fighting against politics is suppose to come in!

 

I've had a few people say to me that the process will probably be more tricky as she is displaying high functioning and she's well.....a she

 

The next major appointment that I have coming up is with a clinical psychologist (let's hope they don't think Im ###### lol).

 

I spoke to eden's speech therapist last night at her appointment about the reception that I got and she advised me to complain, which I am definatly going to do...just hope it doesn't cause more hassle!

 

Wew had to wait 18months for an assessment as the doctor wouldn't refer me at 1st. i was the 1st person in my practice to be diagnosed asperger. If she can control the sensory input to an extent it wont be hurtful for her. As when a dishwasher goes on a cycle for example it is unpredictable so something she cant control or predict which upset her.

 

HTH

 

Alexis

[trekster]

I have hardly told anyone that we are having Dd3 assessed because of the experiences I had with Dd1. Even my mother didn't see all Dd1s' issues until she left home. It becomes difficult to expect specialists to believe you when your own familly don't.

When my mother said " I think you might be right about Dd1". I said " Hang out the ....... flags I have only been telling you for 15 years" !!!!

It is hard to keep on top of everything, don't try to be superwoman. take some time out. The jobs will still be there when you get back.

 

My gran keeps trying to convince my mum that this isnt something done out of spite. Mum still disrespects me and laughs at me.

 

Alexis

[flower23]

Hi,

 

My little boy is now in year 4 and was diagnosed with AS in August of 2008,, I had a similar experience with school and it took a long hard fight to get them to understand his needs, .. However even now , because he copes quite well in school I am sure they still feel I am complete nutter. But they dont witness how it is at home !!

 

I had never heard of AS , until a friend of a friend who I was chatting with was talking about her little boy, and everything clicked into place,, I went to the doctor who refered us to paedetrician, who diagnosed him within the hour..

 

When i told the SENCO , she admitted she had noticed a bit of hand flapping in year one , but just put it down to over excitement, by year two his new teacher in parents evening mentioned that he hadnt done his test and just sat quietley and for love nor money was not going to do it.. and he wasnt even concerned about it.. this happened on another two occasions.. she also asked me about his vacant expression, that another teacher had also noticed.. (this was all before I knew anything about AS)..

 

By year three , school refusal had started and tantrums at home and meltdowns for the silliest things,, far too many to mention.. I took him to school in his pjs and he lay feotal position on the headmasters chair crying, who told me that he thought it was a control thing over me..!!! Although I did tell him that this would happen time and time again unless he gets more help in his lessons..

 

I ended up taking in web address for him to look at and understand that it may look like he his coping at school, but isnt.. !! and was told the school didnt have the funds to keep his stress levels down!!!

 

Even now we have good and bad days, because of his lack of social understandings and although they do have a few things in place for him, he can come home after a bad day and not mention it until we have had a full meltdown of not getting in the bath because there are bits in it, or he needed to go in first, or even sitting in the bathroom for an hour because he refused to get out.. until he blurts out that someone had called him a midget and he couldnt understand why... once it was out in the open,, he got out the bath and was fine..

 

Although i have not given up with school, i try to stay calm and not let the patronising comments get to me anymore!! the last one being after he had a lovely week on a residential trip with no problems, he went into school crying with me and there being too many people in the cloakroom,,, I was then informed that he was a different child when he was away and completely fine.!!!! Tears in my eyes again, I left him in the class room after being peeled off me again..

 

Dont let them get you down, and keep coming on here as I do for a rant,, !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trekster]

Keep up the good work Flower23 we know you can understand your son better than that school.