Form move

[Karen A]

Morning all.

I could not decide where to post this.Here or on the need a hug thread or the screaming thread.....or all three.

Ben started at secondary school in September.We spent months planning the move and did not expect things to go smoothly.

Ben has had some difficult times.However he had been coping well with the transition.He had a difficult time in maths.However after a change of teacher and set this had also improved.

However Ben has had difficulties with being bullyied.He has suffered from some verbal stuff.However he also has lots of difficulties because he expects that people will abide by the rules and be reasonable.It appears that most pre-teens do not have similar expectations.Pushing in,low level verbal bickering and disruption in lessons appears to be the norm.Ben has found it difficult to work and has complained to teachers.

Yesterday Ben's form teacher asked Ben what he expects her to do about the repeated complaints.She felt he had unrealitic expectations and needed to accept that he needs to learn to put up with minor issues.

 

Anyway.Ben was so upsett that he sat in the car in tears.He is very down and uncommunicative.

I saw the year head first thing this morning.She has been very supportive.However she has suggested a form move may well be the best option.

There are difficult personalities in the current class.School have attempted to resolve the issues but they will not be easy to deal with.Ben now feels that most of the class hate him.He has also lost confidence in the form tutor.

 

However a form move would involve a new timetable and a whole new set of subject teachers.Ben had made a few friends and most of the teachers had been doing a good job.

Ben could have more TA support but he does not want it.He has developed his own network which includes the deputy head and year head.However they are obviously busy and are not even on the same site all of the time.He also does not want to appear different to his peers.

 

This has come at a time when Ben is finishing psychotherapy.His psychotherapist has been a significant support for three years.Unfortunately the psychotherapy was provided on the basis that Ben did not have AS.Although the psychotherapy has helped hugely it cannot really continue when Ben has AS and the current difficulties in school are related more to AS.Psychotherapy is not included in the Statement and there is little we can do about that.

In any case Ben had decided he wanted to finish psychotherapy himself.

 

Unfortunately I have realised very late in the day that with psychotherapy finishing we still do not have any system of support in school.

The psychotherapist that supports my husband and myself in helping Ben attempted to encourage school to develop a system that would help Ben deal with minor difficulties before they escalated.But in practice it has not worked out.

 

So here we are.We have five days of term left.Ben has one psychotherapy appointment left and we have to decide whether to embark on a Form change at the start of next term with all that would entail.It is almost like starting from scratch.

 

My mother in law probably has dementia and is not coping in NI.We have a trip booked for four days before christmas which would be a challenge at the best of times.

We were severely judged by one of the ILs for not being sufficiently committed to MIL.We were expected to go to NI for christmas or for my husband to go alone leaving me with the boys.We stood our ground and said we would go before christmas.But it was never going to be easy....four nights in one room in a travel lodge and spending time with MIL.

MIL phoned last night and thought we were coming for christmas so her memmory has obviously deteriorated.

 

Fortunately the psychotherapist that works with my husband and myself is seeing us until the end of March so there is scope for someone to pick things up.

But it all feels very difficult this morning.

After all the work to enable Ben to make a good transition we had not planned on starting again in the New Year.

However form groups remain the same for the whole of secondary school.

The year head feels it would be better to move Ben now rather than leaving him in a situation where he is unhappy.

 

But we could move Ben and find that the same thing happens again next term.

There is no class where all pupils always treat each other well......and if there was Ben would not be in it.

 

Karen.

 

 

 

[JsMum]

 

 

When J was suppose to got to the mainstream secondary I was appauled by one of the schools that the LEA tried to force J into as the behaviour was appauling and there was evidence of some quite serious disruptive behaviour, I knew instantly it was like throwing him in a lions den, it is very different secondary school to primary school, and I think possibly even a form move he will just end up with the problems following him, it wont be the long term solution.

 

Have you thought of a specialist school where he could access theraputic therapies and meet his Aspergers Syndrome, there is some fantastic independant specialist school where he could still have his independance but recieve theraputic interventions.

 

I personally feel that it sounds like he is in the wrong setting.

 

JsMumxxx

 

[justine1]

Hi Karen A

I really feel for you <'> <'> It must be so hard at the moment.I really get what you mean about the whole transition thing its so difficult,but saying that it may not be as big a change as you think after all he will be at the same school and he may still have most of the same teachers(maybe just a few new ones) On the other hand, as you say is it really going to solve the problem?These bullies wll still see him around school,prehaps at lunch times etc and there may be more bullies in his new class.Is Ben able to understand the situation and express what he wants?I know ultimatley you as the parent will decide what is best but maybe if he can give his own pros and cons it can help you decide.It is admirable that he doesnt want a TA but maybe try explain if he di have the TA he wouldnt have to chnge class and there will be less for him to deal with.It is a really tough spot to be in.Iam in a similar position,however I have nearly a year to make my decision you have just a few short days ,I am trying to decide whether to move home or not,as my son is settling in to his school it is making it so hard!Try ignore the in laws with regards to your MIL, this happens in every family when one side feels they doing more than the other, given you are not living there what more can you do?At least you are making an effort just try not to stress over everything,easier said than done Good luck whatever you decide <'>

[wasuup]

Big hugs to you <'> >< <'> ><

Watched my son in the playground before school yesterday my son has a special friend at school who he adores and follows everywhere. Another boy was shouting at my son and getting in between my son and his special friend and then tried to walk away with my sons special friend. Leaving my son frozen to the spot on his own. This special friend is understanding and mature and he turned round and was obviously telling this other boy that he would play with my son too. Then it was time for them to line up and go into school, fortunately. It was horrible to watch. Have told him that this other child can not tell him what to do only the teachers can and if he wants to play with his special friend then he is to, don't know how he will get on though.

[KezT]

She felt he had unrealitic expectations and needed to accept that he needs to learn to put up with minor issues.

 

I have said exactly the same to DS - sometimes there really is nothing that can be done about things. That is not to say the school should be blase about bullying in any way, but some of the things that my DS, and it sounds like your Ben, are upset about are just facts of life. People do not always follow the rules, and not all the rules apply to all the people! Its hard when you are AS but something he may well have to just learn to accept.

 

Have you asked Ben if he wants to change forms? If he does, and he understands that is not going to change the behaviour of others, then go for it. If he has lost faith in his form tutor, he may be happier somewhere else. But if he thinks that another tutor will be able to change the behaviours of the kids he finds difficult, then he is going to be int he same situation in a month or two.

 

It might also be worth talking to him and the school about more LSA support - they could keep an eye on what others are saying/doing to him, without overtly working "with" him all the time and making him stand out.

 

Re your MIL - only you know the situaion there - but why is it your husband's job to be there for her? Are the other in-laws also far away/caring for ASD kids? You can't stop them bitching about you to each other - but don't stand for it to your face - make sure they know your situation and the difficulties you face. (it doesn't work really, half of my family have zero concept of my life, and the other half only a vague idea, but at least I feel that i have explained/justified my position!)

Edited December 11, 2009 by KezT

[Suze]

Hi Karen, hugs to you, we have had very similar issues in our family aswell, with the problems at school and with a relative with dementia .I have to agree with what KezT has posted.My son would get completely drawn in and upset by others who were breaking rules etc, it has been on his IEP since he has been at high school that he will try not to get upset ,angry or involved in others misdemeanours.It has worked though wityh help from his lsa he no longer gets so upset by stuff that is said or done by the other kids in his class.I think I would go for the class change on the understanding that there is a support network there at school where by he can get some time to chat about what has been bothering him each day.Off loading worries and concerns each day and being listened too and taken seriously has helped my son big time.Ben is older now aswell and its important for him to grasp that there are idiots in this world ...as my son likes to tell me , best wishes suzex.

[zaman]

I have said exactly the same to DS - sometimes there really is nothing that can be done about things. That is not to say the school should be blase about bullying in any way, but some of the things that my DS, and it sounds like your Ben, are upset about are just facts of life. People do not always follow the rules, and not all the rules apply to all the people! Its hard when you are AS but something he may well have to just learn to accept.

This is so true of my son as well, and the thing that I find really hard to deal with as a parent.

[Mumble]

Yesterday Ben's form teacher asked Ben what he expects her to do about the repeated complaints.She felt he had unrealistic expectations and needed to accept that he needs to learn to put up with minor issues.

 

I have said exactly the same to DS - sometimes there really is nothing that can be done about things. That is not to say the school should be blasé about bullying in any way, but some of the things that my DS, and it sounds like your Ben, are upset about are just facts of life. People do not always follow the rules, and not all the rules apply to all the people! Its hard when you are AS but something he may well have to just learn to accept.

 

I agree and disagree... Yes, to an extent, we have to learn to get along in the NT world, but if aspects of that world make it impossible to work, get on with anything resembling a normal life, painful even (I certainly can't work in my uni library for instance because of the noise and have had similar comments when I have complained - that the librarians can't do anything about the noise because they're ignored ) then something should be done to accommodate everyone's needs, even if one group is in the minority. One thing I've found, and still find, impossible to understand about rules is why the NT world have them if they refuse to follow them?

 

Why have notices up saying 'Do not use your mobile here' if the people patrolling the place walk past those using mobiles?

 

Why have a sign outside the station saying 'No smoking here, anyone doing so will face an immediate fine' is the station staff walk in and out and do not challenge the people smoking?

 

For me, the problem (e.g. noise) is a problem (in sensory terms) but the rule breaking is also a big problem - they are two separate issues. I think it's important to understand with Ben what the issues are - is it the rule breaking per se (are there actual rules?) or the effect of these on him working? Once you know, you can then work with the form teacher to change things - either rules that are enforceable (if rules are actually broken, then why isn't the school's behavioural policy being followed?) or ensuring Ben's environment is conducive to work.

 

I think it's a difficult decision. You don't know if the same issues will be there if you change form, the other pupils will still be in his year and a problem at lunchtimes etc. I remember my first year of secondary in a large mainstream secondary - I only got through the first term before I began to truant from after the Christmas because I couldn't cope with the environment and the verbal and physical bullying anymore, then I went to a different much smaller school for year 8 where there were much stricter rules and expectations. Sometimes, you have to make the move otherwise you may always be wondering 'what if'. If the people he has made friends with are good friends, they should remain and his support network will still remain. However, if you do move, it might be useful to consider small strategies to put in place to remove some of the issues - can he for instance get to lunch before the children who push in so he simply doesn't have to deal with them as he will be through the lunch line before they queue up?

 

I'm not sure extra TA support would help him particularly if he doesn't want it and to be singled out, but perhaps the support could be put generally into the classes he's in as a general behavioural assistant so the TAs role is specifically to manage low level disruptive behaviour - it doesn't even have to be made out that it's for him, the support is there to manage the behaviour of the disruptive pupils. Maybe too, the teachers could work with Ben to look at things like seating plans and where he would be least disturbed in class?

 

[Sally44]

I don't think I can add to the advice already given.

One situation another friend had was that their son (AS) was that a teacher saw him being bullied by a couple of other lads when they went to their lockers. As a solution they moved the AS lads locker to another location. This really upset him because he had to kneel on the floor to open it, which made his clothes dusty and that was a big issue for him. His mum said her son had no understanding of the verbal remarks that had been made about him because he did not understand sarcasm etc. So the schools solution caused more problems than it was trying to prevent.

So, it is really important to get it from Bens perspective of what the problem is.

It maybe possible for the class teachers to use Ben in a way that keeps him occupied and out of other childrens way eg. helping set up the class etc. But that could equally make him a bigger target for being a teachers pet. But as KezT has said school might be able to come up with other ways of keeping an eye on him without him realising that is what is going on.

My dad also has dementia, and is now at a stage where he does not recognise family members, although he knows that we are familiar. It is a tough time.

It sounds like Ben and yourselves are going to really miss the support of the therapy you get. Can they not come up with any other ways of supporting you as a family? I don't have any suggestions in this area as we are still waiting for SS to come and assess my son and us. Again is it the 'talking to someone' that helps, or is it 'their advice to you'. That might help you decide on the kind of support you need.

[Karen A]

I have not been able to read through the posts yet.

Ben had another dificult day.He came out of school so agitated that the car journey in London Friday traffic was not fun.

It is very sad.We have done so much work and I feel we are back to square one.

I did want to say thanks for the responses though.

I felt very alone this morning and it helped a lot just having somewhere to post. <'> <'> <'> <'>

Karen.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Karen A

[wasuup]

You are not alone <'> >< <'> ><

[zaman]

You are not alone <'> >< <'> ><

That's what I love about this forum, there is always a helping hand when you need it.

[dana]

<'> >< <'>

 

danaxxx

[Kathryn]

Karen - lots of things going on for you at once. <'>

 

Call it old fashioned of me, but I think a child should be entitled to learn in a classroom environment without facing the challenge of disruption, however low level. The fact that the school considers the disruption to be minor, says more about the school than about Ben, in my opinion. I agree that a child should learn that not all is harmony and that people do flout the rules but there are plenty of opportunities in the playground and the world outside.

 

Will you be able to think about the move over Christmas and talk more with the school? If they do not also take steps to address the underlying issues, the same problems may result.

 

K x

[trekster]

i was moved schools due to bullying then moved classes. i was able to listen to and understand trust my teacher though.

Wondering if the school would purchase "asperger syndrome practical strategies for the classroom"? As that could help them

to understand autistic behaviours and why they occur? It helped me gain some common ground with a Nth Somerset College.

 

i was able to understand why others bent, broke and renegotiated rules when told in concrete terms. His unwillingness to be

treated differently signals to me that he is depressed, i should know i was defiant when i got depressed. For me the cause was

benzoates/benzoic acid in foods and toiletries that were being used. Gluten and dairy free living also helped me and i hope your

son soon realises that "different is cool" as Luke Jackson would say.

 

His book aimed at teenager aspergers "freeks geeks and asperger syndrome" made me LOL.

 

Alexis

[Karen A]

Karen - lots of things going on for you at once. <'>

 

Call it old fashioned of me, but I think a child should be entitled to learn in a classroom environment without facing the challenge of disruption, however low level. The fact that the school considers the disruption to be minor, says more about the school than about Ben, in my opinion. I agree that a child should learn that not all is harmony and that people do flout the rules but there are plenty of opportunities in the playground and the world outside.

 

Will you be able to think about the move over Christmas and talk more with the school? If they do not also take steps to address the underlying issues, the same problems may result.

 

K x

 

<'> <'> <'> Thanks.

School are hoping to make a desision ASAP so that Ben can start a new term in new class.

The psychotherapist that works with D and myself has been off sick and we don't know if he will be back on Monday.

The psychotherapist that works with Ben was due to finish seeing him on Tuesday.She was not around yesterday.

There are lots of questions....

We do not know if they are addressing the underlying issues.

Why should Ben move when the issues are whole class issues.Others must also be unhappy and have no option but to stay put.

Moving Ben gives everyone the message that he is the problem or has problems.

How come a year head could move a child with a Statement who is supposed to have 15 hours TA support a week without consulting the SENCO .

Was it really a good idea to tell Ben [she put the proposal to him without talking to us first] without first consulting us.He has now decided he wants to move and the bullies know why because Ben does not have the awareness to realise not to tell people.

 

The SENCO phoned me whilst I was on route home.I parked so she could ring back.Unfortunately Ben became so agitated he started banging his hands against the dash board and yelling.So she is phoning on Monday.

He is really not in good shape at all.At the momment I am not certain he will agree to go to school on Monday.

 

The psychotherapist that works with D and myself is also the link with school.He met with ourselves and the SENCO lsat year.He did a very good job and was absolutely clear that Ben needed someone around in school at least twice a day briefly.A person to pick up on minor problems before they escalated.He was very clear that if things were left to run Ben would become stressed and challenging.

It is now obvious that this support has not happened.When Ben has a problem he has been finding either the head of year,the deputy head,the SENCO or his form teacher.However they are not always available or even on the same site.

The form teacher has now been very clear to the whole class that Ben should be able to manage the small issues.

Call me Miss Awkward if you like......

Ben has a Statement because he has AS.

He is not needing any help in lessons because he can cope with the accademic stuff pretty well.

If he can manage with small issues what exactly is the Statement funding for.

 

I do agree that no pupil should have to put up with that environment.It is sad that other pupils are expected to.

Ben's form teacher has children in the school.She obviously feels it is appropriate to learn in an environment where verbal abuse and having things thrown at you is acceptable but we do not agree.

 

The only thing is that at least we are being offered the oppurtunity to move Ben.

Can we really leave him in a class where he says everyone hates him ?

Karen.

 

 

[Kazzen161]

When my son went to secondary, they purposely put him in a class with a very understanding tutor. Unfortunately she left after a year, and his next one was not so good (even though she was the INCO). There are so many factors that you cannot control at secondary (eg: we made sure he got a locker that was easy to get to - then they moved classrooms and the locker changed).

 

It sounds as though changing forms is worth a try, but it is possible that the same issues will occur. If they are set for maths and english, will his teachers change?

 

I often feel that my son did well at secondary inspite of the school, not because of them, but he did not have a statement. It sounds as though it would be useful to read through his Statement and make sure he is getting the specified help. As you say if he does not need help in the class, then it is not much to ask for a named TA that he can speak to at the end of the morning and day. Sometimes just being listened to and a bit of sympathy is enough, even if the problems cannot actually be changed.

[av16]

Karen I am very sorry to see this. I will pm you.

[bid]

So sorry to hear you are having such a tough time <'>

 

I don't really have any useful advice, as we never did make it work at mainstream secondary. But I do understand about your MIL, as my lovely dad had vascular dementia which coincided with our school difficulties

 

Bid <'>

[Karen A]

Thanks for all of the advice and best wishes. <'> <'> <'>

I spoke at length with the SENCO yesterday.We had done some planning over the weekend.

Plan to move Ben at the start of next term to another Form.We could not see any alternative.

I have been very clear that the move should not be seen as a solution on its own.We will have to meet with SENCO early next term to plan how Ben can be better supported,

I have asked for TA support briefly at a regular time of the day to check how Ben is doing and resolve any difficulties before they are left to escalate.

I was very clear that Ben has a Statement.The school are funded to support him 15 hours a week.As he is needing minimal support in class it should not be too much to expect a bit of support during unstructured times.If he can cope with minor issues as well as his peers then what is the Statement for ?

I ended up feeling pretty pleased with myself.I was able to be clear and assertive without getting stroppy which I would not have been able to do two years ago.

 

We have still not had a response from the psychotherapists.Since it is now nearly 1200 and Ben is due to be discharged this afternoon it could be an interesting few hours.

Karen.

[trekster]

Well done for being Assertive Karen and good luck with Ben,

[justine1]

Thanks for all of the advice and best wishes. <'> <'> <'>

I spoke at length with the SENCO yesterday.We had done some planning over the weekend.

Plan to move Ben at the start of next term to another Form.We could not see any alternative.

I have been very clear that the move should not be seen as a solution on its own.We will have to meet with SENCO early next term to plan how Ben can be better supported,

I have asked for TA support briefly at a regular time of the day to check how Ben is doing and resolve any difficulties before they are left to escalate.

I was very clear that Ben has a Statement.The school are funded to support him 15 hours a week.As he is needing minimal support in class it should not be too much to expect a bit of support during unstructured times.If he can cope with minor issues as well as his peers then what is the Statement for ?

I ended up feeling pretty pleased with myself.I was able to be clear and assertive without getting stroppy which I would not have been able to do two years ago.

 

We have still not had a response from the psychotherapists.Since it is now nearly 1200 and Ben is due to be discharged this afternoon it could be an interesting few hours.

Karen.

Hi Karen,loved reading your post its so positive.I especially like the fact that you have become more assertive over the years this is encouraging to me as I can be very stroppy and seem constantly angry with things at the moment and as its the start of Sams diagnosis so hopefully I ill reach the point you are at some time in the future